FRIENDLY discussion on Processors.

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: ndee
INTEL TEH BEST BUT AMD IS TEH BETTHAR!

btw, dead horse anyone?

Uh besides the last two lame replies by yourself and the other user who decided to click reply before reading we are having a wonderful discussion here. Go post something worthwhile and maybe you can criticize then.

 

[jonmullen]

Originally posted by: manly

Originally posted by: jonmullen

Originally posted by: manly
Intel's roadmap for 64-bit CPUs for desktop PCs is something like 5 years out.

Face the reality; AMD wasn't even able to make much of a dent in low-end SMP servers with Athlon MP. They certainly aren't going to get home users to benefit much from the extra address space.

I'm not knocking Athlon 64. It's certainly necessary for AMD to compete with Pentium4 going forward because the Athlon design is apparently reaching its process scalability limits. But I'd be surprised if Opteron is even a mild "hit" in commodity x86 servers (the fact that Dell is Intel-exclusive basically dooms AMD). 64-bit computing for home users is completely an oxymoron at this point. Enthusiasts should heartily continue to support AMD if Athlon 64 is competitive with Pentium4.

I think companies like Dell being INTEL exclusive is one of the main reasons AMD needs to try and branchout into the server market. IMO Athlon64 was never ment to compeat too much in the home market, but if they can breakinto the server market they may have a chance.

You miss the point. AMD has been trying with Athlon MP. But until major OEMs are willing to ship SMP servers with AMD CPUs, and corporate IT managers are willing to get past their Intel bias, AMD can't break into the server market. They have competitive technology, they just can't get people to ditch the Wintel bias. And Dell is the most important OEM, so that's why it's so devastating for AMD that Dell alliance with Intel is unbreakable.

My point is that if AMD can't succeed as a rough drop-in replacement for Intel SMP, then they have even smaller chance of getting 64-bit computing to make a difference on the desktop. Those transitions literally take years, and AMD simply does not have the clout to pull it off. That's not to say Athlon 64 won't be popular, but that customers will be using it as a 32-bit CPU for the foreseeable future.

And you're wrong, Athlon 64 will directly compete with Pentium4 on the desktop. It just remains to see if it can be as strong an alternative as Athlon 32-bit has been to date (and note that from a business standpoint, Athlon won the early battles, but lost the war).

The problem with Athlon MP was it did not have that much going for it over the Xeon. I mean it was practically the same as the Athlon XP. Athlon 64 is not the same. Look at my post above. I understant that its going to be hard to get them to break into the corporate market, but it wont be quite as breaking in with Dell. I mean atleast in the corporate market you have people who should really be looking at which chip fits their needs the best. If AMD can offer a chip that is stable and compeat I think they have a chance, and a lot better chance that breaking in with Dell.

As for it compeating on the home market, your right it will go up head to head with the P4, but it will have a nitch, since it is not quite the same. I think AMD realizes that the processor market is just like life, you cant compeat head to head forever, they are trying to find a nitch and fill it. It may be their only chance to stay afloat.

 

[jonmullen]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: ndee
INTEL TEH BEST BUT AMD IS TEH BETTHAR!

btw, dead horse anyone?

Uh besides the last two lame replies by yourself and the other user who decided to click reply before reading we are having a wonderful discussion here. Go post something worthwhile and maybe you can criticize then.

Yah please dont crap on our nice thread.

 

[ndee]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: ndee
INTEL TEH BEST BUT AMD IS TEH BETTHAR!

btw, dead horse anyone?

Uh besides the last two lame replies by yourself and the other user who decided to click reply before reading we are having a wonderful discussion here. Go post something worthwhile and maybe you can criticize then.

sorry to crap in your "wonderful" thread

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: jonmullen

The problem with Athlon MP was it did not have that much going for it over the Xeon. I mean it was practically the same as the Athlon XP. Athlon 64 is not the same. Look at my post above. I understant that its going to be hard to get them to break into the corporate market, but it wont be quite as breaking in with Dell. I mean atleast in the corporate market you have people who should really be looking at which chip fits their needs the best. If AMD can offer a chip that is stable and compeat I think they have a chance, and a lot better chance that breaking in with Dell.

As for it compeating on the home market, your right it will go up head to head with the P4, but it will have a nitch, since it is not quite the same. I think AMD realizes that the processor market is just like life, you cant compeat head to head forever, they are trying to find a nitch and fill it. It may be their only chance to stay afloat.

Technically, Athlon MP is stable and competitive. The 3rd-party chipset support never truly arrived, but the 760MP was more than capable upon initial release. The bottom line is that it was a chicken-and-egg problem; until corporations were willing to choose Athlon MP, OEMs wouldn't help push the platform, and vice versa. It's like the old adage, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM," except now it's "Nobody ever got fired for buying Wintel."

As far as Athlon 64 competing with P4, I don't really follow your argument. Just because the design is different from their current 32-bit CPU, and appears suited for server platforms, doesn't change the fact that Athlon 64 is their desktop CPU going forward. If Athlon 64 falls into a niche any smaller than it currently has (among value desktop PCs and enthusiasts), then AMD will go bankrupt. I think in the past 2 years, their desktop CPU market share went from close to 25% to around 10%. While nobody truly thinks Athlon 64 will push that back to anywhere near 25%, it's a product definitely key to their survival going forward.

We'll just agree to disagree.

Intel has already written off desktop CPUs as a growth industry and are trying to branch out into WiFi infrastructure. PC CPUs are a cash cow for Intel now, but not the profit engine it was just 2-3 years ago.

 

[jonmullen]

Originally posted by: manly

Originally posted by: jonmullen

The problem with Athlon MP was it did not have that much going for it over the Xeon. I mean it was practically the same as the Athlon XP. Athlon 64 is not the same. Look at my post above. I understant that its going to be hard to get them to break into the corporate market, but it wont be quite as breaking in with Dell. I mean atleast in the corporate market you have people who should really be looking at which chip fits their needs the best. If AMD can offer a chip that is stable and compeat I think they have a chance, and a lot better chance that breaking in with Dell.

As for it compeating on the home market, your right it will go up head to head with the P4, but it will have a nitch, since it is not quite the same. I think AMD realizes that the processor market is just like life, you cant compeat head to head forever, they are trying to find a nitch and fill it. It may be their only chance to stay afloat.

Technically, Athlon MP is stable and competitive. The 3rd-party chipset support never truly arrived, but the 760MP was more than capable upon initial release. The bottom line is that it was a chicken-and-egg problem; until corporations were willing to choose Athlon MP, OEMs wouldn't help push the platform, and vice versa. It's like the old adage, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM," except now it's "Nobody ever got fired for buying Wintel."

As far as Athlon 64 competing with P4, I don't really follow your argument. Just because the design is different from their current 32-bit CPU, and appears suited for server platforms, doesn't change the fact that Athlon 64 is their desktop CPU going forward. If Athlon 64 falls into a niche any smaller than it currently has (among value desktop PCs and enthusiasts), then AMD will go bankrupt. I think in the past 2 years, their desktop CPU market share went from close to 25% to around 10%. While nobody truly thinks Athlon 64 will push that back to anywhere near 25%, it's a product definitely key to their survival going forward.

We'll just agree to disagree.

Intel has already written off desktop CPUs as a growth industry and are trying to branch out into WiFi infrastructure. PC CPUs are a cash cow for Intel now, but not the profit engine it was just 2-3 years ago.

Ok as for the server market, I totaly understand that the problem is getting people to start to buy their stuff, however my point is that there was nothing special about the Athlon MP that would really make you want to by it over the Xeon. This has all changed with the Athlon64 it offers some very usefull stuff that neither Intel server solution does. I agree that it might fail miserably, but AMD has their back up agaist the wall do you really think they have a better chance in the desktop market. I mean for all they have to over come in the server market, they have to over come the stupidity of the average user in the home market that thinks that MHz is all there is to a CPU. And your right about Athlon64 being their desktop CPU I should have been saying Opteron.

Whats going to make the difference on the home market is not that the chip is 64bit or that it has an on-die memeory controller, but whether or not they can ever catch INTEL in the benchmarks, other wise they are going to banashied to the same value market they have been in for a while now.

 

[Luagsch]

that's the reason the athlon64 will be crucial for amd. if they can't respond intel with the athlon64 what will they have left? the athlon is showing his limitations (anyone seen a retail athlon over 2,25 ghz?)
and i don't think there's a plan B on the side. sure te biggest bucks are in coorporate-b, but if the a64 fails in consumer-b (where i think amd is quite competitive now (at least here in europe)) then it's critical. so the step for the opteron to enter coorporate-b is one of the last fail-saves if the athlon64 shouldn't meet the expectations.