Friend just got slapped with a lawsuit from Time Warner

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Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
76
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: Ausm
Originally posted by: GoodDad
how can they prove that he dl'd it?



That part baffles me also.


Ausm

server logs and screenshots i imagine. not really great proof, but what would a judge or jury know about it. they wouldn't know how easily they can be altered.

Learn photoshop, get a picture of the prosecutor, put his head on tub_girl. Present this to the judge. If you don't want to go this route, create perfect fraudulent logs, showing how easy it is to duplicate them. Show how easy it is to spoof ip addresses. Bring in your hard drive for proof that it was never there.. ;)
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
76
Originally posted by: dragonballgtz
Originally posted by: StormRider
I hope the pron industry never goes after pron downloaders....

Good God don't even say that. Can you imagen how many people would get fined. Fine every one like $5 for every movie they downloaded and they could get like $500,000,000 easily.

and half of that is just me :eek:
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Originally posted by: knyghtbyte
If people didnt pirate so much then costs in shops/online stores would be cheaper, not necessarily by a lot, but enough that most people would be able to afford what they wanted. It due to piracy that things got so inflated, thankfully mass competition has driven things down a little. Im not a goody goody two shoes, i just dont mind rewarding the people who create something that makes me happy. I like the Steam idea of online content delivery with PC games, i think its very good, it takes the publishers out of the equation, and hopefully once the ties with them are cut then the content will become cheaper, even if only by a third it will be good :)

While I agree with mostly what you said, CDs and albums were over priced in stores before Napster. And they were mostly filler material too. People started complaining a lot more when the alternatives made headlines because of Metallica's lawsuit against Napster.

Piracy has little to do with the price of CDs. And there is hardly mass competition. There's, wha, 4 major record labels? Each is a megacorp in itself. They compete the same way telephone companies compete. :p
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,747
579
126
Everyone still seems to think that this suit is over the fact that he downloaded the movie...isn't it over the fact that he uploaded it?
 

FFactory0x

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2001
6,991
0
0
Yea just buy a copy and get rid of you hd. BTW, i was dling something on torrent the other day with pier guardien open and saw 3 ips trying to connect to me that wrre blocked. Pretty wierd
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
76
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Everyone still seems to think that this suit is over the fact that he downloaded the movie...isn't it over the fact that he uploaded it?

Cost of the movie x number of times uploaded != 4k or 150k

Unless it was upload 267 or 10,000 times in 8 days
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: knyghtbyte
If people didnt pirate so much then costs in shops/online stores would be cheaper, not necessarily by a lot, but enough that most people would be able to afford what they wanted. It due to piracy that things got so inflated, thankfully mass competition has driven things down a little. Im not a goody goody two shoes, i just dont mind rewarding the people who create something that makes me happy. I like the Steam idea of online content delivery with PC games, i think its very good, it takes the publishers out of the equation, and hopefully once the ties with them are cut then the content will become cheaper, even if only by a third it will be good :)

While I agree with mostly what you said, CDs and albums were over priced in stores before Napster. And they were mostly filler material too. People started complaining a lot more when the alternatives made headlines because of Metallica's lawsuit against Napster.

Piracy has little to do with the price of CDs. And there is hardly mass competition. There's, wha, 4 major record labels? Each is a megacorp in itself. They compete the same way telephone companies compete. :p
Additionally, I think the charge-per-download-per-song sites are a result of all this controversy...

How did they know what people want ? Because of the piracy and their "defense" saying they aren't going to pay for an entire CD when all they wanted was 1 song.

Well we got it... and they are still profiting. Win-win.
 

LordSnailz

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
4,821
0
0
ah ... that's why he got the letter, it's the sharing. Any idea how much it was, 8days straight is a lot.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Downloading and distributing unpaid copies of movies/music is illegal, and depending how you want to look at it, it's just plain wrong. It's no different than shoplifting which costs the rest of us millions.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Everyone still seems to think that this suit is over the fact that he downloaded the movie...isn't it over the fact that he uploaded it?

Cost of the movie x number of times uploaded != 4k or 150k

Unless it was upload 267 or 10,000 times in 8 days
I still don't see 4k worth of downloads in 8 days. How could anyone have uploaded a whole movie that many times in 8 days?
Who wants to do the upload math?

Also, I thought it wasn't illegal to download if you already own the product. I'd subpoena TW's logs, find out who downloaded it from me, and buy them all a copy.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,747
579
126
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Everyone still seems to think that this suit is over the fact that he downloaded the movie...isn't it over the fact that he uploaded it?

Cost of the movie x number of times uploaded != 4k or 150k

Unless it was upload 267 or 10,000 times in 8 days


I'm sure it doesn't, but I'm equally sure thats not where they got the number from. Especially since it sounds easy to make a case that he seeded that many illegal copies. Probably some BS term that makes the number for it.
 

cressida

Platinum Member
Sep 10, 2000
2,840
5
81
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: hevnsnt
#1) Setup a website called holyfvckIambeingsued.com or whatever
#2) Post all the details, include emails & scanned letters etc
#3) Get the word out about the site; here, fark, SA, etc.. Have a $5 donation box
#4) Get the $4000 and pay them.. After your buddy settles, change the page to "Yes I downloaed it, because it sucked so bad I didn't want to pay for it" or something.

#5) Forget to declare extra $4000 of income on tax return, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. :p

nah, I don't think he's making over 7k a year so he doesn't have to file :)
 

WhiteKnight

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,952
0
0
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Downloading and distributing unpaid copies of movies/music is illegal, and depending how you want to look at it, it's just plain wrong. It's no different than shoplifting which costs the rest of us millions.

It is different than shoplifting because shoplifting involves removal of a physical object from the posession of another entity (the store). They can no longer sell that item. Downloading movies and music leaves the original owner with everything, they just have less people to sell to because some of those people will already have a copy of the item.

That having been said, I don't support illegal music/movie downloads, although I do hope for change in the system (a la iTunes and similar things).
 

vwtankgirl

Member
Jan 13, 2005
62
0
0
Originally posted by: knyghtbyte
Due to a minor disability going out shopping and hanging around listening to music in the shops isnt something i can do easily, hence my d/l to see if i like the song/artist. Although thankfully a lot more artists now do websites with a song or two on a flash like setup.

If people didnt pirate so much then costs in shops/online stores would be cheaper, not necessarily by a lot, but enough that most people would be able to afford what they wanted. It due to piracy that things got so inflated, thankfully mass competition has driven things down a little. Im not a goody goody two shoes, i just dont mind rewarding the people who create something that makes me happy. I like the Steam idea of online content delivery with PC games, i think its very good, it takes the publishers out of the equation, and hopefully once the ties with them are cut then the content will become cheaper, even if only by a third it will be good :)

I don't have any physical limitations and I don't like to go to the mall and shop for stuff. Rude employees and even ruder customers to deal with... but I will spend my hard earned money to get the things I want.

Piracy has been around a long time, this didn't just start with the internet.. but it did get worse. Piracy or no, the prices haven't come down that much in the last 10 years on music prices. (wow, $4!)

Now I am not saying I agree with d/l stuff, but I do like to try before I buy. Everything I had ever d/l I did end up buying. I never d/l a movie... the philes were too big for dialup.

I would be glad to help this kid out by sending $5 to pay off a $4K fine, as long as he wasn't stupid enough to do it again. JMHO.
 

ttown

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2003
2,412
0
0
Originally posted by: dderidex
Originally posted by: FoBoT
you guys don't get it

they don't have to prove anything

a middle class family is going to have a dent in their budget to hire a lawyer to defend against this

it will be easier/cheaper to settle than to fight it, so the pirate boy's family is going to be out 5-10% of their annual income because of this

The sad truth is that AOL/Time/Warner could probably just pick a national ISP - MSN or something - get their client list and sue every one of them, offering to settle, whether the 'victim' even knew what a filesharing program WAS or not.

Who can fight a mega-corporation?
That strategy has proven successful for DirecTV. They raided sellers of eproms that can be used for illegal purposes and sue everyone that bought one. Never mind the fact that eproms have 1000's of legit uses.
 

knyghtbyte

Senior member
Oct 20, 2004
918
1
0
Originally posted by: vwtankgirl
Originally posted by: knyghtbyte
Due to a minor disability going out shopping and hanging around listening to music in the shops isnt something i can do easily, hence my d/l to see if i like the song/artist. Although thankfully a lot more artists now do websites with a song or two on a flash like setup.

If people didnt pirate so much then costs in shops/online stores would be cheaper, not necessarily by a lot, but enough that most people would be able to afford what they wanted. It due to piracy that things got so inflated, thankfully mass competition has driven things down a little. Im not a goody goody two shoes, i just dont mind rewarding the people who create something that makes me happy. I like the Steam idea of online content delivery with PC games, i think its very good, it takes the publishers out of the equation, and hopefully once the ties with them are cut then the content will become cheaper, even if only by a third it will be good :)

I don't have any physical limitations and I don't like to go to the mall and shop for stuff. Rude employees and even ruder customers to deal with... but I will spend my hard earned money to get the things I want.

Piracy has been around a long time, this didn't just start with the internet.. but it did get worse. Piracy or no, the prices haven't come down that much in the last 10 years on music prices. (wow, $4!)

Now I am not saying I agree with d/l stuff, but I do like to try before I buy. Everything I had ever d/l I did end up buying. I never d/l a movie... the philes were too big for dialup.

I would be glad to help this kid out by sending $5 to pay off a $4K fine, as long as he wasn't stupid enough to do it again. JMHO.

Just to make clear that in my post i did mention piracy forms other than internet d/l, and yes they have been around a long time, HENCE the fact that prices have generally been quite high, obviously CD was a higher price in its earlier days as it was a new format , new formats/products always cost more either due to initial production costs being higher before mass marketing happens to it, or simply because people are mugs and need the latest gear straight away. But if tape-tape or CD-tape or CD-CD copying hadnt been around then prices would have been slightly lower, production costs are neglible now on the level these things are made, its mainly the shops that increase the prices so drastically, but if more people bought from the shops, the shops would have to be more competitively priced against other shops to retain customers. Example in England being that altho the cost of a CD is reasonably high (£13), they are almost always doing a 3for2 deal or 2 for £20 offer. Oh, and given the general rate of inflation in UK, the fact that CD's have barely increased in price isnt bad, can of coke 10 years ago cost around 30p, now around 50p, CD's havnt increased anywhere near that much.

I dont agree with d/l something and keeping that you have no intention of buying in regards to music, but i do personally think being able to d/l music is a good way to spread the choice available from other countries or lesser known artists who are very good but limited by their style of music, providing that if you like it you buy it after or delete if from your drive. For me the d/l songs really are just tempory, i have a high quality hifi and no way can i enjoy listening to the music properly from MP3/WMA type files, hell, with DVD-A/SACD discs becoming more and more present even CD is beginning to sound a little, hmm, restrained...lol. (of course vinyl is another matter entirely....love the stuff)

I dont agree with d/l (as in pirate, not pay per download) Movies though, its very rare for a typical large budget Hollywood film not to be released in just about every country that supports techonology to VHS level. So there is no reason to d/l them, there are plenty of sources to get information on the films content and quality from TV clips to magazine reviews and internet trailers so you can decide if you want the film or not.

I agree in some ways with the rude employees thing, however quite often they are rude to customer because customers often treat them like sh*t first. If you approach with a smile to their counter more often than not they will respond in a more positive tone. I have worked in a few industries that concern dealing with people/customers and a smile (genuine, not massive toothy Miss World style) goes a long way.

As for sending money to help someone out, if they were a family member i would probably be willing to, but someone i dont know, who WILLINGLY broke the law KNOWING it carries a penalty if they get caught, does get caught then that is their own fault, sounds harsh, but by doing an illegal act they are already making my life more expensive so why should i feel i want to spend even more money concerning their actions??? Sorry, but the guy has to bite the bullet, if i commited a crime then i'd expect to be punished and accept the consequences. For instance, the train line i go to work on is poorly maintained mainly in regards to staff being in the ticket office, so often people just go to the platform and ride without paying, then they get caught sometimes on the train by a ticket inspector, after paying for the ticket (overland train) or paying the fine (underground tube train) they then moan about it to their friends. They expect it to be a free service? why should it be free?? a company is there to make money, if it was still a government run institution then thats different. So someone who expects to be able to d/l movies free when the companies that make them invest millions in the process and expect to get it back is dumb enough to leave it in their shared folder as well so plenty of other people can d/l it deserve what they get, like i say, its unfortunate for the person, but as the saying goes, you commit the crime, you do the time.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: Ausm
Originally posted by: GoodDad
how can they prove that he dl'd it?



That part baffles me also.


Ausm

server logs and screenshots i imagine. not really great proof, but what would a judge or jury know about it. they wouldn't know how easily they can be altered.

Learn photoshop, get a picture of the prosecutor, put his head on tub_girl. Present this to the judge. If you don't want to go this route, create perfect fraudulent logs, showing how easy it is to duplicate them. Show how easy it is to spoof ip addresses. Bring in your hard drive for proof that it was never there.. ;)


Thats what I would do. THEY have to prove you D/LandU/L THAT movie. All they have is a screen image etc... So juts take a small file, change name IN COURT and show it is not that. Tell them you were U/L code to a private program and used a really crappy movie that no one would waste their time D/Ling

:p
 

gar598

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2001
1,915
1
0
Has someone come by and physically handed him a document saying he is being sued?

Tell him to go to the legal aid clinic and they'll be able to give him a better idea.