Fresh Comp Sci Graduate with no prior internships... what to do?

[evident]

Helping out my nephew find a job. Just found out he graduated this year w/ a 3.1 in comp sci. Also found out he doens't have a job yet... looking at his resume he has no internships listed. I know when i graduated it was a must. Should he be looking for internships at this point or for full time jobs? I told him his resume is pretty lacking and he had better be prepared to explain why he doesn't have any internships.

 

[Ken g6]

Been there, done that, got no idea how to help because I'm not really sure how I got employed myself. One thing I will mention is that if he hasn't interviewed for a technical position before he should study for a technical interview. It's nothing like a regular interview, and my school did nothing to prepare me for that. Hopefully they're doing a better job these days.

 

[senseamp]

You are not doing him any favors by making him self conscious about his resume and experience and undermining his confidence. He should look at full time jobs and he doesn't need to explain why he doesn't have an internship. Put projects and coursework on the resume and go on with it interviewing at the most possible companies. The job market is hot now.

 

[BD231]

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Inappropriate image - again.
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[XavierMace]

Helping out my nephew find a job. Just found out he graduated this year w/ a 3.1 in comp sci. Also found out he doens't have a job yet... looking at his resume he has no internships listed. I know when i graduated it was a must. Should he be looking for internships at this point or for full time jobs? I told him his resume is pretty lacking and he had better be prepared to explain why he doesn't have any internships.

What specifically is he looking to get into? Does he even know? Comp Sci gives you the ground work for a lot of options, but not enough practical knowledge for a lot of specialized jobs. Has he done anything outside of coursework relevant to the specific job he's looking to get into? IE personal programming projects, bootcamps, etc? Has he gone to any cons/user groups? That's a good way to make some contacts. What part of the country is he in and is relocation an option? Degrees/Certs are great, but personally I value a clear desire to learn and a passion for the subject even more. Example: If you're trying to get into the IT Security field, ponying up the cash to go to DefCon isn't a bad idea. It shows actual interest in the field and is a good chance to make connections.

You are not doing him any favors by making him self conscious about his resume and experience and undermining his confidence. He should look at full time jobs and he doesn't need to explain why he doesn't have an internship. Put projects and coursework on the resume and go on with it interviewing at the most possible companies. The job market is hot now.

Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't help either. Having a BA/BS in Computer Science doesn't mean people are going to be fighting over you. Especially if you're really picky on what you're looking to do and haven't done anything outside the coursework. A LOT of fresh graduates greatly over-estimate their skill level (see Dunning-Kruger effect) and get locked into this death spiral of spending months (or more) trying to get their ideal job (that they're not really qualified for) and end up taking a low level completely unrelated job because they need money. You're unlikely to get a senior developer role just off a BS in Computer Science regardless your grade and where it's from. I know plenty of people with Comp Sci degrees doing entry level IT.

I completely agree he needs to get out and start pumping out the interviews and I'd certainly say try to get interviews for his ideal/dream job if for no other reason than to get feedback on what they'd like to see. But with no internships and (possibly) no related extracurricular activities, he may have to adjust his expectations (depending what his expectation and goals are). For example I spent a good portion of the last few weeks interviewing people for a lower level NOC Analyst/Junior Network Admin role. Every one of them had the expected cert (CCNA). Two of them had little experience (3 years or less in a semi-related role) but flat out said they weren't interested in expanding their skill set or performing functions outside a specific small set of tasks. Two of them had no experience but explained what else they'd been doing to expand their skill set and they expressed interest in performing tasks that would expand their skill set. Guess which ones got job offers.

 

[BoomerD]

And if Xavier's suggestions don't work...or are too much trouble for him...Starbucks is usually hiring.

Oh wait...they hire liberal arts majors...never mind.

 

[jpiniero]

Oh he screwed. Perhaps doing some temp work through an agency might be the best bet.

 

[vi edit]

"Comp Sci" is far too generic. It totally depends on his interest and abilities. Is he looking to code/develop? Or did he do more of a infrastructure type path working with networking/servers/ect. If he needs a job, look at hospitals in their MIS dept. They are constantly in need in of service desk and help desk techs. Pay is good, benefits are decent, and usually have a good career path upwards from there without needing excessive qualifications to get hired on initially.

 

[purbeast0]

I had a 3.1 and no comp sci related internships when I graduated and landed a job after a couple months. 13 years later my salary is over 3x what it was when I graduated. He will find something and be just fine.

And no comp sci isn't that generic. Networking and server stuff isn't related to Comp Sci. Comp Sci is about programming, algorithms, and developing.

 

[vi edit]

I had a 3.1 and no comp sci related internships when I graduated and landed a job after a couple months. 13 years later my salary is over 3x what it was when I graduated. He will find something and be just fine.

And no comp sci isn't that generic. Networking and server stuff isn't related to Comp Sci. Comp Sci is about programming, algorithms, and developing.

It depends entirely on the school and what they lump under "Computer Science". Not all programs are the same. I have a computer science degree. Only a handful of classes were programming. The rest were very "IT" oriented in database design, system design, networking, infrastructure and other things. We had a lot of adjunct professors that were IT professionals in the area. Programming was a small part of our program.

 

[purbeast0]

It depends entirely on the school and what they lump under "Computer Science". Not all programs are the same. I have a computer science degree. Only a handful of classes were programming. The rest were very "IT" oriented in database design, system design, networking, infrastructure and other things. We had a lot of adjunct professors that were IT professionals in the area. Programming was a small part of our program.

I'm assuming you graduated a long time ago. I graduated in 2004 and things were starting to be broken out a bit by that time. I'm assuming now it is even more broken out into more specific areas.

Even when I went to school IT and Comp Sci were different.

 

[Aikouka]

I would say that the first thing to do is be clear about what his expectations should be. While his resume isn't bad, a 3.1 GPA and no internship will not help. In fact, I'd argue that the GPA alone is enough to get it thrown out at HR for some larger companies (if there are a surplus of candidates). So, be clear that he may submit his resume for multiple positions and never hear anything back, but it's not really anything to worry about.

The second thing is that not having an internship isn't a bad thing. To be clear, I usually tell CS students to always do one, because it does help; however, when you're a fledgling out of college... realistically... they don't expect a ton out of you. Well, they might if it's some crazy, prestigious school or something, but let's be a bit generic. As a new-grad, companies expect that they'll have to train you, that you'll take longer to come up to speed, and that you may not be fully proficient in the language in question. For these companies, they see you as an investment. So, what you want to be able to do is show how you're a better pick than someone else like yourself. In other words, what's something that helps set you apart, and do not say things like "I'm a go-getter!"... everyone says junk like that. If you had to overcome some sort of adversity... let's say one of your partners in a group project was falling behind, and you helped them out... that's something worth mentioning.

Also, consider looking into government-related jobs as there are plenty of jobs in the software development field there. I do find that they are usually a bit more stable, and once you have a clearance, you can always jump around to different positions. Getting that clearance is a big hurdle, and I'll admit that not having one can hurt you if others that are interviewing already have one.

 

[Exterous]

If he can't find a job it might be worth looking at the school he graduated from. It seems like a lot of them will hire on student temps and recent graduates for up to full time work in 1+ year increments. The pay is shit to mediocre but can give good experience depending on the institution.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Computer related jobs are harder to come by now as everyone is trying to outsource most of that stuff. Guess it depends on his location too though.

He might be lucky to land a job at a help desk for a decent size company, and from there he can move on to server tech etc. Some companies may even still do programming in house, though most of the time that's outsourced, or they use cloud apps or premade apps.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

First off - Your priority point of attack needs to be the resume. Make sure it stands out. Make sure to do as much studying of "What is least likely to get your paper thrown out by HR" - things to avoid, things to make sure you include, etc... Basically, your job until you get a job is improving your chances to get a job. And hands down the #1 way to do that is to focus hard on your resume. Most people just put something in and assume it's good to go.... No, you should always be looking at it and always revising it

With that said, you DONT need to mention GPA in it. I sure as hell didn't - mine wasn't anything to write home about. My GPA was shit, I was a part of the IT club, I had no certs, or internships, etc.. and I still did just fine for an opening job.

Second - your first job is just that - it's your first. Unless you're team captain of valedictorian with a 6.0 GPA, your chances of getting into an "amazing" job like in Silicon valley paying $150k+ are slim to none. With that said, I would do like I did: Shoot fish in a barrel. Doesn't matter what it is, if you think it is something you can do and the pay is around what you expect - apply for it. the worst that can happen is that you learn from the experience such as learning what to expect in an interview. I've had to turn down jobs too because they weren't what I expected.

After your first job, it's very likely with experience under your belt you can start moving more towards the companies and positions that you REALLY want. As you climb further and further up the ladder instead of you having to the desperate ones it eventually turns into the employers being desperate for you and your experience. It's all a slow but gradual process.


EDIT: Oh one last thing... If you have connections, fucking use them. If you don't have connections - try to make them.... Although I got my first job all on my own, my 2nd was through a connection - without that 2nd job I wouldn't be where I am today in my 3rd, which has DRASTICALLY increased my pay.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Computer related jobs are harder to come by now as everyone is trying to outsource most of that stuff. Guess it depends on his location too though.

He might be lucky to land a job at a help desk for a decent size company, and from there he can move on to server tech etc. Some companies may even still do programming in house, though most of the time that's outsourced, or they use cloud apps or premade apps.

Slightly disagree. I think everyone WAS trying in the last 10-15 years. Now companies are starting to see shit like costly data leaks and are starting to think twice about going cheap on IT.

Most companies are too stupid to see indirect costs of outsourcing until those costs are right in front of them.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

For example I spent a good portion of the last few weeks interviewing people for a lower level NOC Analyst/Junior Network Admin role. Every one of them had the expected cert (CCNA). Two of them had little experience (3 years or less in a semi-related role) but flat out said they weren't interested in expanding their skill set or performing functions outside a specific small set of tasks. Two of them had no experience but explained what else they'd been doing to expand their skill set and they expressed interest in performing tasks that would expand their skill set. Guess which ones got job offers.

Seriously, is this something only millenials do? I honestly have to ask, how fucking dumb can you be to say something like that in an interview? The sheer amount of retardation there is just mind blowing.

I shouldn't be surprised, I've heard stories like this from others who have done interviews - but it just still amazes me how kids are THAT fucking stupid.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Seriously, is this something only millenials do? I honestly have to ask, how fucking dumb can you be to say something like that in an interview? The sheer amount of retardation there is just mind blowing.

I shouldn't be surprised, I've heard stories like this from others who have done interviews - but it just still amazes me how kids are THAT fucking stupid.

Not all millennial are like that, only the ones that think they're entitled to everything without working for it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Not all millennial are like that, only the ones that think they're entitled to everything without working for it.

Of course not all of them. I am like a closet millennial - I hate admitting it - but in the end it's true and I can't avoid it.

I think you're giving them too much credit though - I can't say entitlement has anything to do with it. I mean, if you're THERE for the interview I figure you want a job. Regardless of what you think the work entails, it's ENTIRELY pointless to assume you know what the day to day job expectations are.

In my career I've taken jobs where I had no idea what to expect for the day to day operations at the point of interview.... But at no time was I stupid enough to say something didn't interest me. Debate that shit and ask those types of questions AFTER you have a job offer. Not before, dumbass.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Of course not all of them. I am like a closet millennial - I hate admitting it - but in the end it's true and I can't avoid it.

I think you're giving them too much credit though - I can't say entitlement has anything to do with it. I mean, if you're THERE for the interview I figure you want a job. Regardless of what you think the work entails, it's ENTIRELY pointless to assume you know what the day to day job expectations are.

In my career I've taken jobs where I had no idea what to expect for the day to day operations at the point of interview.... But at no time was I stupid enough to say something didn't interest me. Debate that shit and ask those types of questions AFTER you have a job offer. Not before, dumbass.

But they're there at the job interview and flat out said they didn't want to expand their skill set, which (if you have half a brain) shouldn't say, since more skills = more opportunities for jobs later.

Maybe it's because I'm in the boat of trying to find a job (with no luck) and envy people who get interviews (and then just fuck it up)

 

[jpiniero]

Slightly disagree. I think everyone WAS trying in the last 10-15 years. Now companies are starting to see shit like costly data leaks and are starting to think twice about going cheap on IT.

Most companies are too stupid to see indirect costs of outsourcing until those costs are right in front of them.

If anything, things have gotten accelerated. If OP's nephew manages to land a job in IT he will most likely be working with either people in India/other low cost countries or H1-B contractors. Have to figure he's going to have a rough time since I imagine companies who want to hire out of college will have filled that by now.

 

[clamum]

Helping out my nephew find a job. Just found out he graduated this year w/ a 3.1 in comp sci. Also found out he doens't have a job yet... looking at his resume he has no internships listed. I know when i graduated it was a must. Should he be looking for internships at this point or for full time jobs? I told him his resume is pretty lacking and he had better be prepared to explain why he doesn't have any internships.

Sounds somewhat similar to me when I graduated though I had a scoatch higher GPA, 3.4 or 3.6 I don't remember which. Took me about 9-10 months but I landed my first developer job. I'd just go after entry level positions and don't give up. I'd think internships would make it easier/quicker but they're definitely not required to find a job.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Of course not all of them. I am like a closet millennial - I hate admitting it - but in the end it's true and I can't avoid it.

I think you're giving them too much credit though - I can't say entitlement has anything to do with it. I mean, if you're THERE for the interview I figure you want a job. Regardless of what you think the work entails, it's ENTIRELY pointless to assume you know what the day to day job expectations are.

In my career I've taken jobs where I had no idea what to expect for the day to day operations at the point of interview.... But at no time was I stupid enough to say something didn't interest me. Debate that shit and ask those types of questions AFTER you have a job offer. Not before, dumbass.

I interviewed two candidates in their early 40's for a Virtualization related position and neither of them expressed any interest in learning Big Iron Storage Integration to be a part of their position duties. I think the opposite of millennial can absolutely happen too. People who have been in the force for a couple decades, learned their "niche", and think they've "done their time" and don't need to advance anymore. That's for the newbies.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I interviewed two candidates in their early 40's for a Virtualization related position and neither of them expressed any interest in learning Big Iron Storage Integration to be a part of their position duties. I think the opposite of millennial can absolutely happen too. People who have been in the force for a couple decades, learned their "niche", and think they've "done their time" and don't need to advance anymore. That's for the newbies.

I can understand older people to a certain extent - because i presume at that time you likely already have a job - or have enough experience to turn down offers. Millennial, on the other hand - lack experience. It's pretty hard to get jobs when every position wants 5-10 years of experience and you have 0 years. Likewise, if you're older you can be more demanding as the leverage switches sides.

Just my take on it though. As a millennial myself - I'm finally at that point where I have the leverage and am loving having recruiters fondling me all the time.

 

[evident]

You are not doing him any favors by making him self conscious about his resume and experience and undermining his confidence. He should look at full time jobs and he doesn't need to explain why he doesn't have an internship. Put projects and coursework on the resume and go on with it interviewing at the most possible companies. The job market is hot now.

thanks for the responses
I haven't said anything to him. He just only reached out to me and sent me his resume so i could forward it to some contacts at my company and some related ones. I want to help him polish it as much as possible, but without previous experiences, i dunno what else to do. He's also way late- our company takes applications at the begining of the year jan/feb and has interviews in march april for new grads and interns to start in the summer. I sent him a flyer in january but no response. no idea.

I had a comp engineering degree and without my internships I dunno wtf i woulda talked about during my interviews. my senior design project? sure but whatever. I was asked a ton of technical questions too.