French sex show during pope visit

[BaliBabyDoc]

Yahoo
ZAGREB (Reuters) - Police had to stop angry Croats attacking French actors simulating sex outside the cathedral in the capital Zagreb during a papal visit to the former Yugoslav republic, a newspaper reports.

"This is a Catholic country," local people shouted at the pair from an experimental street theatre group called Cacahuete. "We won't have infidels like you walking around Zagreb on a holy day -- when the Pope is in Croatia."

I see tolerance is alive and well in New Europe.

 

[glenn1]

I can see the reason for their anger. Performing this in front of the cathedral during a Papal visit is in poor taste to say the least. I somehow doubt this would have been an issue, had the performers utilized the discretion possessed by a gnat and considered the context of their performance location before the show. It sounds like they were trying to get a reaction, and succeeded admirably.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Yahoo
ZAGREB (Reuters) - Police had to stop angry Croats attacking French actors simulating sex outside the cathedral in the capital Zagreb during a papal visit to the former Yugoslav republic, a newspaper reports.

"This is a Catholic country," local people shouted at the pair from an experimental street theatre group called Cacahuete. "We won't have infidels like you walking around Zagreb on a holy day -- when the Pope is in Croatia."

I see tolerance is alive and well in New Europe.

I see respect for other people and their beliefs are dead in France.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Actually they are in Croatia . . . France is quite accepting of religious diversity. Muslims are probably the 2nd or 3rd largest religious group in France.

Who are the most prominent religious leaders in America? Pat Robertson . . . Billy Graham . . . Franklin Graham . . . Jerry Falwell . . . Jesse Jackson . . . Al Sharpton . . . (note I said prominent NOT respected)

I see respect for other people and their beliefs are dead in France.

. . . the irony . . . I mean hypocrisy.

 

[glenn1]

Actually they are in Croatia . . . France is quite accepting of religious diversity. Muslims are probably the 2nd or 3rd largest religious group in France.

Who are the most prominent religious leaders in America? Pat Robertson . . . Billy Graham . . . Franklin Graham . . . Jerry Falwell . . . Jesse Jackson . . . Al Sharpton . . . (note I said prominent NOT respected)

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I see respect for other people and their beliefs are dead in France.
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. . . the irony . . . I mean hypocrisy.

I see the irony is lost on you. Acceptance and respect are not the same thing. Acceptance in French terms seems to be a patronizing sort where the beliefs of silly little different colored people are humored and tolerated as the product of a person who doesn't know to know better. Respect means taking into account what those beliefs are and acting in a way to not be abusive of them, particularly when you have knowledge of them and how to not be abusive of them.

Let me try another example... would you claim that your version of "tolerance" should include the right of a French acting troupe to give a performance which states that Mohammed was a homosexual right in front of a mosque? Would muslims in good faith need to be accepting/supportive of the performance in order to show "toleration and acceptance of religious diversity?"

 

[Zrom999]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Actually they are in Croatia . . . France is quite accepting of religious diversity. Muslims are probably the 2nd or 3rd largest religious group in France.

Who are the most prominent religious leaders in America? Pat Robertson . . . Billy Graham . . . Franklin Graham . . . Jerry Falwell . . . Jesse Jackson . . . Al Sharpton . . . (note I said prominent NOT respected)

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I see respect for other people and their beliefs are dead in France.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

. . . the irony . . . I mean hypocrisy.

I see the irony is lost on you. Acceptance and respect are not the same thing. Acceptance in French terms seems to be a patronizing sort where the beliefs of silly little different colored people are humored and tolerated as the product of a person who doesn't know to know better. Respect means taking into account what those beliefs are and acting in a way to not be abusive of them, particularly when you have knowledge of them and how to not be abusive of them.

Let me try another example... would you claim that your version of "tolerance" should include the right of a French acting troupe to give a performance which states that Mohammed was a homosexual right in front of a mosque? Would muslims in good faith need to be accepting/supportive of the performance in order to show "toleration and acceptance of religious diversity?"

That would be a horrible way to die.
A little common sense would have made them realize that what they were doing was going to tick people off. In front of a cathedral, during the popes visit to the country, and 90% of the population was Catholic? WTF were they smoking?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Yahoo
ZAGREB (Reuters) - Police had to stop angry Croats attacking French actors simulating sex outside the cathedral in the capital Zagreb during a papal visit to the former Yugoslav republic, a newspaper reports.

"This is a Catholic country," local people shouted at the pair from an experimental street theatre group called Cacahuete. "We won't have infidels like you walking around Zagreb on a holy day -- when the Pope is in Croatia."

I see tolerance is alive and well in New Europe.

Tolerance? Having simulated sex outside a church is not tolerance. It's stupidity. If you want to do crap like that then have it inside in your home or theater. This is one of the most silliest things I've seen and I would have joined in the beating.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Let me try another example... would you claim that your version of "tolerance" should include the right of a French acting troupe to give a performance which states that Mohammed was a homosexual right in front of a mosque? Would muslims in good faith need to be accepting/supportive of the performance in order to show "toleration and acceptance of religious diversity?"

The simple answer would be "YES" to all of the above with caveats. The French (or any nationality) should have the right to express their views in prose or by disrobe. Muslims in good faith should accept the nature of open societies BUT not support it per se. If they cannot tolerate it then they should go somewhere which restricts such expressions like say . . . Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan, and the US DOJ.

Personally, I think two adults having ACTUAL sex in public is fine . . . regardless of where they do it . . . church, courthouse, library . . . I might hold off on the elementary school. Naturally, I give simulated sex the same leeway.

As for your example . . . if this French couple had portrayed the Pope banging an usher boy . . . I certainly consider it in poor taste and I would understand a Catholic's (or any person's) perceived offense. I think verbal confrontation is perfectly acceptable (legally it would be called assault) but there's no excuse for physical confrontation (legally it would be battery).

The Pope and Catholicism (along with many other world religions) have strange (IMHO) preoccupations with sex. I do not know the status of the clergy and usher boys in Croatia but a single case would be sufficient to justify a "political statement" as to how the church has dealt with the problem. As to the religious acceptance of others being critical of your religion . . . if you don't like it . . . look away and pray to your respective deity that such transgressions be forgiven for the truly repentant.

. . . then again many of the self-righteous prefer this response . . .

Tolerance? Having simulated sex outside a church is not tolerance. It's stupidity. If you want to do crap like that then have it inside in your home or theater. This is one of the most silliest things I've seen and I would have joined in the beating.

 

[glenn1]

The simple answer would be "YES" to all of the above with caveats. The French (or any nationality) should have the right to express their views in prose or by disrobe. Muslims in good faith should accept the nature of open societies BUT not support it per se. If they cannot tolerate it then they should go somewhere which restricts such expressions like say . . . Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan, and the US DOJ.

Gotcha. So in your world, tolerance only works one way, the religious have to sit there and take whatever insult is dished out to them. No wonder anti-semitism is on the rise again in your "tolerant" version of Europe. No doubt those who can't tolerate being somewhere which restricts "performance art" (like burning synagogues, drawing swaztikas on public property, etc.) are going somewhere where they can enjoy the French "open society" approach to tolerance of religious beliefs.... French freedom of religion (or not)

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Actually they are in Croatia . . . France is quite accepting of religious diversity. Muslims are probably the 2nd or 3rd largest religious group in France.

Who are the most prominent religious leaders in America? Pat Robertson . . . Billy Graham . . . Franklin Graham . . . Jerry Falwell . . . Jesse Jackson . . . Al Sharpton . . . (note I said prominent NOT respected)

I see respect for other people and their beliefs are dead in France.

. . . the irony . . . I mean hypocrisy.

you are a fool for missing the point of the people's anger. I see you see total acceptance of the french act and their utter lack of respect for the various institutions they trampled on as another form of free speech or some other type of liberty. Either you're looking for attention (which you got) or your oblivious to what tolerance and responsibility really are. If its the latter, then ignorance really must be bliss.

 

[BarneyFife]

Personally, I think two adults having ACTUAL sex in public is fine . . . regardless of where they do it . . . church, courthouse, library . . . I might hold off on the elementary school. Naturally, I give simulated sex the same leeway.

Are you serious? Do you really want to turn your city into nudist camps and public orgies? Do you really want to take your kids to the park and see people giving each other blowjobs while your kids are playing on the swings? I'm socially liberal but what you are talking about is just plain nuts.

 

[glenn1]

you are a fool for missing the point of the people's anger. I see you see total acceptance of the french act and their utter lack of respect for the various institutions they trampled on as another form of free speech or some other type of liberty. Either you're looking for attention (which you got) or your oblivious to what tolerance and responsibility really are. If its the latter, then ignorance really must be bliss.

He's simply making the common mistake of conflating someone's rights with outcomes. Having the right (as this French acting troupe does) of performing does not include the right to have a willing and supportive audience for their views at their chosen venue. Everyone else in this thread has seen and spoke of the obvious, that there is a distinction between free speech rights and the commonsense and non-inflammatory means of asserting that right (in terms of timing, location, and target audience).

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

No doubt those who can't tolerate being somewhere which restricts "performance art" (like burning synagogues, drawing swaztikas on public property, etc.) are going somewhere where they can enjoy the French "open society" approach to tolerance of religious beliefs....

You've got nothing more than a phallus in your hand. There is no double standard. It matters not whether this couple was just looking for attention or making a political statement. They can march in front of the synagogue with swaztikas, a 1st Baptist church with the Stars and Bars signing "Dixie", or the Pope holding diaphragms. As long as they do not violate the premises, obstruct entry to the premise, or disturb the peace of the premise (can be heard from the inside) . . . they should do as they please.

If the Southern Baptist convention institutes ritual head slashing and "devoted" re-enactment of the crucifixtion it wouldn't bother me at all. If they forced people to participate or watch . . . that bothers me. I am tolerant of the various beliefs that religious organizations practice. I accept their beliefs and the inconsistencies endemic to virtually all.

Peyote in the desert SW has just as much religious validity to me as belief in the Holy Trinity. From Wicca to Druids it's all the same to me . . . they should all get national holidays and a freedom to practice their religion unimpeded by the state or citizens opposed to their practices . . . as long as no one is forced to witness or participate (direct or indirect such as tax subsidies).

 

[Tom]

Ok, the Fench simulated their sex, the police protected them, the people who didn't like it got to yell and shout about it, the pope did the pope things..

What is the problem ?

 

[Nitemare]

Jeebus, It's not like they simulated homosexual pedophilia in front of the cathedral....










They are French so their stupidity should be expected...

 

[Fencer128]

I didn't realise that this had become another "lets generalise about those we dislike" thread.

"Look, we found that there are some morons in this country - so, I mean, we expect nothing less from such a moron filled country"

Get a grip people. The whole let's generalise about France situation is more than a little sad.

Every country has morons. This is no better than "all Americans are gun toting war mongering fools" just because I met/heard/read of one in a news report once.

Andy

EDIT: OK, from reading all of the posts I notice that this thread hasn't quite got to the stage I mention above. However, it is going that way and there are some comments that reflect this attitude - so please try and stay factual and fair with the criticism. Cheers.

 

[drewshin]

i knew a loser like etech would immeidately jump on this one. some french actors do something insulting, and suddenly all of france has lost its morals. geez get a life already.

 

[BOBDN]

Americans should be careful attacking the French for simulating sex outside a cathedral.

Just a few months ago an American couple was arrested for HAVING sex INSIDE St. Patrick's cathedral in New York City on a radio show dare.

Does that make all Americans culpible? Or are our biases against the French showing?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Americans should be careful attacking the French for simulating sex outside a cathedral.

Just a few months ago an American couple was arrested for HAVING sex INSIDE St. Patrick's cathedral in New York City on a radio show dare.

Does that make all Americans culpible? Or are our biases against the French showing?

The couple in that incident were arrested, charged, and convicted, and the radio show hosts were fired.

The incident BaliBabyDoc posted is not a lack of tolerance on the churchgoers part, it's a lack of respect for the beliefs of others on the actors part. Tolerance does not mean that you have the right to vulgarly and forcefully offend others without consequence. It means that you are tolerant and respectful of the beliefs of others. And the rule applies to everyone - or else we will never have peace.

My God, the double-think that comes out from these leftists. :Q :|

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Let me be clear . . . just b/c I believe we should tolerate and accept such behavior does not mean I condone it, wish to view it, or force others to view/condone/participate. IMHO, simulated sex in front of a church is inappropriate . . . US executive salaries are obscene . . . I would regulate neither.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: drewshin
i knew a loser like etech would immeidately jump on this one. some french actors do something insulting, and suddenly all of france has lost its morals. geez get a life already.

That whooshing sound was the meaning of my post going over your head. Read BBD's first post, than read my post. Repeat until you get it.

 

[DZip]

Just another example of a society that has no respect for others. Many people today think that everyone else should accept anything I choose to do. Many people in this forum defend the disrespectful activities and claim that those that find these actions inappropriate are lacking tolerance. They want to dark side to rule the world.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Just another example of a society that has no respect for others.

I am offended that you would describe US foreign policy in such a manner . . .

 

[0roo0roo]

whats immoral? the catholic church getting poor catholic countries to ban/shun condoms. apparently only "natural" rhythem method is allowed by catholic church. poor overpopulated countries need more poor uneducated catholics to be born at any cost apparently.

just look at the philippines where they banned humanitarian aid condoms because of the catholic church.

rhythm method my @ss. that doesn't work for long,...ever.

 

[rahvin]

Apparently we have different views of tollerance. If someone wants to simulate sex in front of a crowd of christians I'm tollerant of their right to express their views, I'm also tollerant of the crowd to express THEIR views back to those people simulating sex. It's a two way street, they can simulate sex and the crowd can threaten them with violence. It's tollerance all the way around. If your point is to offend people you shouldn't get supprised when you actually do offend them and cause them to have a reaction to your attempt to express yourself. All actions have consequences.