French People Strike Against Much Needed Reform...Refuse to work more than 35 Hours/week

[freegeeks]

For anyone defending the French, I would like to know how long you have spent in the country as that directly impacts your ability to comment on their situation. I lived over there for a year. Certainly doesn't make me an expert, but I do have some firsthand knowledge.

My mother is French and I spent a lot of my time in France. I only live 40 minutes from the border.

 

[freegeeks]

Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

Wow, you have pensions coming out the wazoo. That is far too many for one person. I don't know how your country can sustain such a system as your countrymen grow older (and stay alive longer) without either 1) increasing taxes, 2) borrowing more money to help sustain such a system and eventually going bankrupt, or 3) scaling it back so that everyone can fend for themselves. While I agree that you have a system that benefits the individual, it is putting a hurting on the firms within your country. As the EU starts to open up its border so that tarriffs and protectionism becomes a thing of the past, the companies in your country will be overwhelm at the competition globalization has to offer. Not only will the competition come from Eastern Europe and the United States, but also from cut-throat East Asian nations (such as Taiwan, China, and S. Korea). You guys have to take serious steps at reform before Brussels opens her gates, or risk being undercut.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

Back in '85 my company (I worked for) purchased a Belgium company... Sacra SA. located in Liege... it was a mfg. company... I can attest to the high productivity level of the workers there versus another company we purchased down in Bordeaux where the workers seemed to try every way to avoid work... in fact, and perhaps because it was owned by an American Company, they worked against our American folks over there trying to help train them on some of the techniques we wanted employed... They didn't know I spoke French (the others didn't) but, they would joke and carry on about us dumb yanks and answer in french as if they didn't understand english at all... and they did. It allowed me to evaluate the attitude of management in dealing with this issue... We sold the company the next year... But, Belgium workers were eager and helped beyond expectations... Bravo to you!
And they were more productive than the American counterpart by 6% over the first year... even with the off time. Labor costs and Social costs were almost on par with the US at that time..
I spent a nice summer of '85 and '86 there... august they shut down as I remember...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

Wow, you have pensions coming out the wazoo. That is far too many for one person. I don't know how your country can sustain such a system as your countrymen grow older (and stay alive longer) without either 1) increasing taxes, 2) borrowing more money to help sustain such a system and eventually going bankrupt, or 3) scaling it back so that everyone can fend for themselves. While I agree that you have a system that benefits the individual, it is putting a hurting on the firms within your country. As the EU starts to open up its border so that tarriffs and protectionism becomes a thing of the past, the companies in your country will be overwhelm at the competition globalization has to offer. Not only will the competition come from Eastern Europe and the United States, but also from cut-throat East Asian nations (such as Taiwan, China, and S. Korea). You guys have to take serious steps at reform before Brussels opens her gates, or risk being undercut.

I don't think you understand what makes european countries and america to a lesser extent so great and millions every year want to flock to. It's basically the social contract. Where 99% of the people don't have to worry about being expoited, working in unsafe conditions, straving when they no longer are working, egalitarian opportunities for the most part etc etc etc...

Sure China is a wonderful place inside one on the bigger cities, where you have an opportunity to make a fortune but 99% of that country is flat broke and 1% has all the weatlh making it generally an undisrable place to live, unless you are in the 1% crowd. No westerners are immigrating there but millions of chineese leave every year for the west. The prosperity of these western nations results from the people commissioning their governments to look after the common interest not the businessmans intrest exclusivly. The old adage about the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is true under unristricted capitalism, Even happend over here with the robber barrens and great deprssion.

So what is the common intrests is the point of contention really, and it should be settled democratically as it is in france. I think everyone would agree on roads, national defense, and law and order. Most agree on some type of old age benefits and education. Since France spends a fraction of what we do on defense I think they are fine with thier more liberal social policies.

When you say they can't compete I have no idea what you mean. They have an awesome lifestyle and are very high tech and still manufacture more than we do per-capita. French people are smart and educated, which is again part of the social contract, drawing employers from all over the world as in HDl1's example. They also only show less than 3% debt as opposed to the US's irresponsible 4.6% of gdp. As a member of the EU it's capped at 3% by law. If anyone is in huge trouble it's the united states.Big trouble

You really should travel a bit. Look at the infrastucture of democratic coutries with hadly any taxation or social benefits like Turkey then shoot up to Sweden a high tax state. BIG DIFFERENCE.


If you feel so strongly about the more liberal counties can't compete I urge you to go open a factory/research center in South America and let me know how it goes. I'm interested in the type of personel you'll be able to hire.

 

[Jadow]

Rebecca Lord sucks, and she's french. She's cool though.

 

[AndrewR]

One more interesting observation about the Japanese. The ones who work on base, ie. for either American contractors or the military, are much more liable to be lazy and sloppy than those you see working off base. My wife used to work (volunteer) with a local Okinawan who has been here most of her life, and she commented on that state of affairs because it annoys her to no end.

The easy comparison is looking at fast food places. At the Burger King here on base, it's basically not much different than you would find in the States, though a little cleaner and generally better run. The McDonald's off base, however, is amazing. You could eat off the floor, and the people working are exceptionally friendly and efficient. I have NEVER seen a fast food restaurant in the States quite like it is here. Another notable difference -- the women, particularly on drive thru, are VERY attractive.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

Wow, you have pensions coming out the wazoo. That is far too many for one person. I don't know how your country can sustain such a system as your countrymen grow older (and stay alive longer) without either 1) increasing taxes, 2) borrowing more money to help sustain such a system and eventually going bankrupt, or 3) scaling it back so that everyone can fend for themselves. While I agree that you have a system that benefits the individual, it is putting a hurting on the firms within your country. As the EU starts to open up its border so that tarriffs and protectionism becomes a thing of the past, the companies in your country will be overwhelm at the competition globalization has to offer. Not only will the competition come from Eastern Europe and the United States, but also from cut-throat East Asian nations (such as Taiwan, China, and S. Korea). You guys have to take serious steps at reform before Brussels opens her gates, or risk being undercut.

I don't think you understand what makes european countries and america to a lesser extent so great and millions every year want to flock to. It's basically the social contract. Where 99% of the people don't have to worry about being expoited, working in unsafe conditions, straving when they no longer are working, egalitarian opportunities for the most part etc etc etc...

Sure China is a wonderful place inside one on the bigger cities, where you have an opportunity to make a fortune but 99% of that country is flat broke and 1% has all the weatlh making it generally an undisrable place to live, unless you are in the 1% crowd. No westerners are immigrating there but millions of chineese leave every year for the west. The prosperity of these western nations results from the people commissioning their governments to look after the common interest not the businessmans intrest exclusivly. The old adage about the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is true under unristricted capitalism, Even happend over here with the robber barrens and great deprssion.

So what is the common intrests is the point of contention really, and it should be settled democratically as it is in france. I think everyone would agree on roads, national defense, and law and order. Most agree on some type of old age benefits and education. Since France spends a fraction of what we do on defense I think they are fine with thier more liberal social policies.

When you say they can't compete I have no idea what you mean. They have an awesome lifestyle and are very high tech and still manufacture more than we do per-capita. French people are smart and educated, which is again part of the social contract, drawing employers from all over the world as in HDl1's example. They also only show less than 3% debt as opposed to the US's irresponsible 4.6% of gdp. As a member of the EU it's capped at 3% by law. If anyone is in huge trouble it's the united states.Big trouble

You really should travel a bit. Look at the infrastucture of democratic coutries with hadly any taxation or social benefits like Turkey then shoot up to Sweden a high tax state. BIG DIFFERENCE.


If you feel so strongly about the more liberal counties can't compete I urge you to go open a factory/research center in South America and let me know how it goes. I'm interested in the type of personel you'll be able to hire.

perhaps you haven't been reading the economic news coming out of europe for the past year. That inane Stability and Growth Pact that you're referring to (the 3% cap or there will be penalities) has been undermined by at least 6 countries in the Euro zone, from Germany to France to Italy to Portugal. And not one of them has been penalized. The dumb thing about that pact is that it says that countries should try to balance their budget during bad times. The intentions are good, but any economist will tell you that it is utter stupidity. To balance the budget means to raise taxes and cut other social services, the exact opposite of what countries should be doing to jumpstart the economy. Well, most of those countries have ignored the S&G Pact and are doing what is necessary to jumpstart their own economy. Even the EU leaders are happy about that. So don't go preaching about European fiscal policy, because it is far worst than ours.

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: Dari
perhaps you haven't been reading the economic news coming out of europe for the past year. That inane Stability and Growth Pact that you're referring to (the 3% cap or there will be penalities) has been undermined by at least 6 countries in the Euro zone, from Germany to France to Italy to Portugal. And not one of them has been penalized. The dumb thing about that pact is that it says that countries should try to balance their budget during bad times. The intentions are good, but any economist will tell you that it is utter stupidity. To balance the budget means to raise taxes and cut other social services, the exact opposite of what countries should be doing to jumpstart the economy. Well, most of those countries have ignored the S&G Pact and are doing what is necessary to jumpstart their own economy. Even the EU leaders are happy about that. So don't go preaching about European fiscal policy, because it is far worst than ours.

Well, I wouldn't call the S&G pact insane, its more that, like all measures cooked up by economists, it doesn't interface with reality that well

I can't directly judge french workers - while I've worked in the US and the UK, I've never worked in france. I have been to university in France though, and I can definately say that french students work a lot harder than UK students, and even more than US students.

One more thing - why did you title this thread "French People Strike Against Much Needed Reform...Refuse to work more than 35 Hours/week"? I won't argue with the first part, but where did you get the second part from? Perhaps you read a different article to me?

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

Wow, you have pensions coming out the wazoo. That is far too many for one person. I don't know how your country can sustain such a system as your countrymen grow older (and stay alive longer) without either 1) increasing taxes, 2) borrowing more money to help sustain such a system and eventually going bankrupt, or 3) scaling it back so that everyone can fend for themselves. While I agree that you have a system that benefits the individual, it is putting a hurting on the firms within your country. As the EU starts to open up its border so that tarriffs and protectionism becomes a thing of the past, the companies in your country will be overwhelm at the competition globalization has to offer. Not only will the competition come from Eastern Europe and the United States, but also from cut-throat East Asian nations (such as Taiwan, China, and S. Korea). You guys have to take serious steps at reform before Brussels opens her gates, or risk being undercut.

I don't think you understand what makes european countries and america to a lesser extent so great and millions every year want to flock to. It's basically the social contract. Where 99% of the people don't have to worry about being expoited, working in unsafe conditions, straving when they no longer are working, egalitarian opportunities for the most part etc etc etc...

Sure China is a wonderful place inside one on the bigger cities, where you have an opportunity to make a fortune but 99% of that country is flat broke and 1% has all the weatlh making it generally an undisrable place to live, unless you are in the 1% crowd. No westerners are immigrating there but millions of chineese leave every year for the west. The prosperity of these western nations results from the people commissioning their governments to look after the common interest not the businessmans intrest exclusivly. The old adage about the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is true under unristricted capitalism, Even happend over here with the robber barrens and great deprssion.

So what is the common intrests is the point of contention really, and it should be settled democratically as it is in france. I think everyone would agree on roads, national defense, and law and order. Most agree on some type of old age benefits and education. Since France spends a fraction of what we do on defense I think they are fine with thier more liberal social policies.

When you say they can't compete I have no idea what you mean. They have an awesome lifestyle and are very high tech and still manufacture more than we do per-capita. French people are smart and educated, which is again part of the social contract, drawing employers from all over the world as in HDl1's example. They also only show less than 3% debt as opposed to the US's irresponsible 4.6% of gdp. As a member of the EU it's capped at 3% by law. If anyone is in huge trouble it's the united states.Big trouble

You really should travel a bit. Look at the infrastucture of democratic coutries with hadly any taxation or social benefits like Turkey then shoot up to Sweden a high tax state. BIG DIFFERENCE.


If you feel so strongly about the more liberal counties can't compete I urge you to go open a factory/research center in South America and let me know how it goes. I'm interested in the type of personel you'll be able to hire.

perhaps you haven't been reading the economic news coming out of europe for the past year. That inane Stability and Growth Pact that you're referring to (the 3% cap or there will be penalities) has been undermined by at least 6 countries in the Euro zone, from Germany to France to Italy to Portugal. And not one of them has been penalized. The dumb thing about that pact is that it says that countries should try to balance their budget during bad times. The intentions are good, but any economist will tell you that it is utter stupidity. To balance the budget means to raise taxes and cut other social services, the exact opposite of what countries should be doing to jumpstart the economy. Well, most of those countries have ignored the S&G Pact and are doing what is necessary to jumpstart their own economy. Even the EU leaders are happy about that. So don't go preaching about European fiscal policy, because it is far worst than ours.

Well that is not entirely right. Off course this stability thing might at times go past economic reality, but it was done to get countries with chronic stability problems and continuously weak currents in line (Italy, Greece) Funny thing is the country that is now constantly breaking it is Germany and we were the ones behind the stability pact because of our fear the Euro could be less "hard" than the D-Mark. And since the D-Mark is like the only national Icon we have(had) this pact basically made the Euro possible - Germans would have never agreed to rid their beloved D-Mark for a potential Lira currency....

Ok back to the topic - I just read that Germany might face serious consequences reaching into the souvereignity of the german budget soon. ( they just predicted that we will be above the 3% again this year and our growth is nonexistant)

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: freegeeks
Belgium

Workweek - 36 hours - 38 hours - 40 hours depending where you work.
I have 40 days paid vacation (27 days normal + 13 days recuperation because I work 40 hours a week in an 38 hour work week). There is a legal minimum of paid vacation days in Belgium (22 days).
Basically everyone has medical insurance the day he is born until he dies. I don't know if we can keep paying for it but for the moment it works and there is no budget deficit (there is a big national debt from the past though). I have additional medical insurance from my work (work pays the surplus) and when you are sick, you are paid. When I work overtime I'm also paid (depends where you work). I take the train to work everyday and my transportation cost is for 80% covered by my employer. In addition to the legal "state" pension the company I work has an additional pension fund and you can also do additional pension saving that are tax deductible to a certain amount.

I don't claim that "our" system is the best. It works for us for the moment and I'm fairly happy with it.

Wow, you have pensions coming out the wazoo. That is far too many for one person. I don't know how your country can sustain such a system as your countrymen grow older (and stay alive longer) without either 1) increasing taxes, 2) borrowing more money to help sustain such a system and eventually going bankrupt, or 3) scaling it back so that everyone can fend for themselves. While I agree that you have a system that benefits the individual, it is putting a hurting on the firms within your country. As the EU starts to open up its border so that tarriffs and protectionism becomes a thing of the past, the companies in your country will be overwhelm at the competition globalization has to offer. Not only will the competition come from Eastern Europe and the United States, but also from cut-throat East Asian nations (such as Taiwan, China, and S. Korea). You guys have to take serious steps at reform before Brussels opens her gates, or risk being undercut.

I don't think you understand what makes european countries and america to a lesser extent so great and millions every year want to flock to. It's basically the social contract. Where 99% of the people don't have to worry about being expoited, working in unsafe conditions, straving when they no longer are working, egalitarian opportunities for the most part etc etc etc...

Sure China is a wonderful place inside one on the bigger cities, where you have an opportunity to make a fortune but 99% of that country is flat broke and 1% has all the weatlh making it generally an undisrable place to live, unless you are in the 1% crowd. No westerners are immigrating there but millions of chineese leave every year for the west. The prosperity of these western nations results from the people commissioning their governments to look after the common interest not the businessmans intrest exclusivly. The old adage about the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is true under unristricted capitalism, Even happend over here with the robber barrens and great deprssion.

So what is the common intrests is the point of contention really, and it should be settled democratically as it is in france. I think everyone would agree on roads, national defense, and law and order. Most agree on some type of old age benefits and education. Since France spends a fraction of what we do on defense I think they are fine with thier more liberal social policies.

When you say they can't compete I have no idea what you mean. They have an awesome lifestyle and are very high tech and still manufacture more than we do per-capita. French people are smart and educated, which is again part of the social contract, drawing employers from all over the world as in HDl1's example. They also only show less than 3% debt as opposed to the US's irresponsible 4.6% of gdp. As a member of the EU it's capped at 3% by law. If anyone is in huge trouble it's the united states.Big trouble

You really should travel a bit. Look at the infrastucture of democratic coutries with hadly any taxation or social benefits like Turkey then shoot up to Sweden a high tax state. BIG DIFFERENCE.


If you feel so strongly about the more liberal counties can't compete I urge you to go open a factory/research center in South America and let me know how it goes. I'm interested in the type of personel you'll be able to hire.

perhaps you haven't been reading the economic news coming out of europe for the past year. That inane Stability and Growth Pact that you're referring to (the 3% cap or there will be penalities) has been undermined by at least 6 countries in the Euro zone, from Germany to France to Italy to Portugal. And not one of them has been penalized. The dumb thing about that pact is that it says that countries should try to balance their budget during bad times. The intentions are good, but any economist will tell you that it is utter stupidity. To balance the budget means to raise taxes and cut other social services, the exact opposite of what countries should be doing to jumpstart the economy. Well, most of those countries have ignored the S&G Pact and are doing what is necessary to jumpstart their own economy. Even the EU leaders are happy about that. So don't go preaching about European fiscal policy, because it is far worst than ours.

Well that is not entirely right. Off course this stability thing might at times go past economic reality, but it was done to get countries with chronic stability problems and continuously weak currents in line (Italy, Greece) Funny thing is the country that is now constantly breaking it is Germany and we were the ones behind the stability pact because of our fear the Euro could be less "hard" than the D-Mark. And since the D-Mark is like the only national Icon we have(had) this pact basically made the Euro possible - Germans would have never agreed to rid their beloved D-Mark for a potential Lira currency....

Ok back to the topic - I just read that Germany might face serious consequences reaching into the souvereignity of the german budget soon. ( they just predicted that we will be above the 3% again this year and our growth is nonexistant)

Unless you've heard something I haven't, I'd doubt that Brussels would punish all those economies for being above the 3% cap without some serious backlash.

 

[JellyBaby]

Folks is it really necessary to quote a post that contains quotes?