French People Strike Against Much Needed Reform...Refuse to work more than 35 Hours/week

[CaptnKirk]

Is continental Europe a mess from OUR point of view of from ours?
Some appear to be doing quite well, while others are struggling.

I've never lived in a foriegn country, other than 'Nam, and that was on our terms,
although some of their terms were a bit more explosive.
I have talked to people who have spent extended time in Europe and other countries,
and some say that certain areas are more appealing than others, while some despised it.

The French are always said to be anti-social, maybe it's just that they are too inbred,
like their leader Jaque Frommage, or their Movie stars, name one ? can't.
They even like Jerry Lewis - how sick is that ?

Embrace the American Model ? Seen it, too anorexic, worse than Goth or Heroin-Chic.
Gimmie Anna Nicole, or Roseanne Barr, robust healthy American look.
(but I always did like pork)

 

[kleinesarschloch]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Isn't the standard work week in Europe around 35 - 37 hours everywhere?

Seems like the U.S. is the country that is stuck on underpaying the workers, and minimalizing benifits.
Most of those countries give 3 weeks vacation for every 4 months worked or their abouts i've heard.

It may not be lazy, it may just a different way of doing business where corprate proffit is not the driver.
People of Middle Earth, tell us of your plight - enlighten us.
What kind of benefits and work compensation do you get in the EU ?
Medical ?, Vacation ?, Retirement ?, Blind dates with Madonna ?

And I bet you think 10% unemployment (as in Germany) is good, right? How about 58% percent of your salary going to the gov't, great idea, right? How about letting the government determine how the economy works, as opposed to market forces? The fact is, capitalism, as practiced by the Anglo-Saxon world, is the best economy out there. It is being adopted throughout east asia and (hopefully) the rest of the industralizing world. The socialist European model is an utter joke that is bound to collapse, as we are seeing in france right now.

how about not having to worry if you can afford to go to the doctor? how about having decent unemployment benefits when you are the one who was unfortunate enough to be layed off? how about having a pension you can actually live off? how about receiving *something* for your god damned tax money? i'd rather pay german taxes and receive german benefits, than pay USA taxes and receive these "benefits". i have done both so i think i'm qualified to talk about it.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Is continental Europe a mess from OUR point of view of from ours?
Some appear to be doing quite well, while others are struggling.

I've never lived in a foriegn country, other than 'Nam, and that was on our terms,
although some of their terms were a bit more explosive.
I have talked to people who have spent extended time in Europe and other countries,
and some say that certain areas are more appealing than others, while some despised it.

The French are always said to be anti-social, maybe it's just that they are too inbred,
like their leader Jaque Frommage, or their Movie stars, name one ? can't.
They even like Jerry Lewis - how sick is that ?

Embrace the American Model ? Seen it, too anorexic, worse than Goth or Heroin-Chic.
Gimmie Anna Nicole, or Roseanne Barr, robust healthy American look.
(but I always did like pork)

I have some bad news for you regarding the French film industry; not only are there plenty of noteworthy French film stars (Catherine Deneuve, Gerard Depardieu, Julia Ormond, and Jean Reno to name a few) but many, many American films are actually remakes of French films. Here's a few you might recognize.

The Associate (1996) remake of L'Associé (1982)
Screenplay by Nick Thiel
Based upon the Motion Picture "L'Associé" adapted from the Novel "El Socio" by Jenaro Prieto
(does not identify co-writers of the French film, René Gainville & Jean-Claude Carrière)

The birdcage (1996) remake of La Cage aux Folles (1978)
Screenplay by Elaine May
Based on the stage play "La Cage aux Folles" by Jean Poiret and the script written by Francis Veber, Édouard Molinaro, Marcello Danon and Jean Poiret

Blame It On Rio (1983) remake of Un Moment d'Égarement (1977)
Screnplay by Charlie Peters and Larry Gelbart
(does not identify the French film and its writer, Claude Berri)

Breathless (1983) remake of À Bout de Souffle (1959)
Screenplay by L.M. Kit Carson & Jim McBride
Based upon the Motion Picture "À Bout de Souffle" from the Screenplay by Jean-Luc Godard of the Story by François Truffaut

Buddy Buddy (1981) remake of L'Emmerdeur (1973) (aka A Pain In The A..)
Screenplay by I.A.L. Diamond and Billy Wilder
Based on a play and story by Francis Veber

Cousins (1989) remake of Cousin, Cousine (1975)
Screenplay by Stephen Metcalfe
Based on the film "Cousin, Cousine" Written and Directed by Jean-Charles Tachella

Diabolique (1996) remake of Les Diaboliques (1954)
Screenplay by Don Roos
Based upon the film "Les Diaboliques" by Henri Georges Clouzot and based upon the Novel "Celle qui n'était plus" written by Pierre Boileau and Thomas Narcejac
(does not identify co-writers of the French film, Jerôme Geronimi, René Masson and Frédéric Grendel)

Down And Out In Beverly Hills (1986) remake of Boudu Sauvé Des Eaux (1932)
Screenplay by Paul Mazursky & Leon Capetanos
Based on the play "Boudu Sauvé des Eaux" by René Fauchois
(does not mention the French film co-written & directed by Jean Renoir)

Father's Day (1997) remake Of Les Compères (1983)
Screenplay by Lowell Ganz & Babaloo Mandel
Based on the film entitled "Les Compères" by Francis Veber

Happy New Year (1987) remake of La Bonne Année (1973)
Screenplay by Warren Lane
Based on Claude Lelouch's "La Bonne Année"

Intersection (1994) remake of Les Choses De La Vie (1970)
Screenplay by David Rayfiel and Marshall Brickman
Based on the novel by Paul Guimard (published by Editions Denoël) and the Screenplay by Paul Guimard, Jean-Loup Dabadie and Claude Sautet

Jungle 2 Jungle (1997) remake of Un Indien dans la Ville (1994) (aka Little Indian, Big City)
Screenplay by Bruce A. Evans & Raynold Gideon
Based on "Un Indien dans la Ville" written by Hervé Palud, Igor Aptekman and Thierry Lhermitte, Philippe Bruneau

The Man With One Red Shoe (1985) remake of Le Grand Blond Avec Une Chaussure Noire (1972)
Screenplay by Robert Klane
Based upon the Motion Picture written by Francis Veber and Yves Robert

Men Don't Leave (1990) remake of La Vie Continue (1981)
Screenplay by Barbara Benedek and Paul Brickman; Screen Story by Barbara Benedek
Suggested by the film "La Vie Continue" written and directed by Moshé Mizrahi

The Mirror Has Two Faces (1996) remake of Le Miroir à Deux Faces (1958)
Screen Story and Screenplay by Richard Lagravenese
Based on the picture "Le Miroir à Deux Faces" written by André Cayatte and Gérard Oury directed by André Cayatte

Mixed Nuts (1994) remake of Le Père Noël est une Ordure (1982)
Screenplay by Nora Ephron & Delia Ephron
Based on "Le Pere Noël est une Ordure"
(does not separately identify original play by Josiane Balasko, Marie-Anne Chazel, Christian Clavier, Gérard Jugnot, Thierry Lhermitte, Bruno Moynot, Jean-Marie Poir&eacute

My Father The Hero (1994) remake of Mon Père, Ce Héros (1991)
Screenplay by Francis Veber and Charlie Peters
Based on "Mon Père, Ce Héros" by Gérard Lauzier

Nine Months (1995) remake of Neuf Mois (1993)
Written for the Screen & directed by Chris Columbus
Based upon the film "Neuf Mois" written and directed by Patrick Braoudé

Point Of No Return (1993) remake of Nikita (1990) (aka La Femme Nikita)
Screenplay by Robert Getchell and Alexandra Seros
Based on Luc Besson's "Nikita"

Pure Luck (1991) remake of La Chèvre (1981)
Screenplay by Herschel Weingrod & Timothy Harris
(does not identify the French film written by Francis Veber)

Scent of a Woman (1992) remake of Profumo Di Donna (1974)
Screenplay by Bo Goldman
Suggested by a Character from "Profumo du Donna" by Ruggero Maccari and Dino Risi based on the Novel "Il Ruio e il Miele" by Giovanni Arpino

Sommersby (1993) remake of Le Retour de Martin Guerre (1981)
Screenplay by Nicholas Meyer and Sarah Kernochan; Story by Nicholas Meyer and Anthony Shaffer
Based on the film "The Return of Martin Guerre" written by Daniel Vigne and Jean-Claude Carrière

Sorcerer (1977) remake of Le Salaire de la Peur (1953) (aka The Wages Of Fear)
Screenplay by Walon Green
Based on the novel "The Wages of Fear" by Georges Arnaud; Dedicated to H.-G. Clouzot.
(does not identify original film's co-writer Jerôme Geronimi)

Three Fugitives (1989) remake of Les Fugitifs (1986)
Written & Directed by Francis Veber
(does not identify the French film written by Francis Veber; technically, not a remake)

Three Men and a Baby (1987) remake of Trois Hommes et un Couffin (1985)
Screenplay by James Orr & Jim Cruickshank
Based on "Trois Hommes et un Couffin", written by Coline Serreau

The Toy (1982) remake of Le Jouet (1976)
Screenplay by Carol Sobieski
Based on a French Film by Francis Veber

True Lies (1994) remake of La Totale (1991)
Screenplay by James Cameron
Based upon a Screenplay by Claude Zidi, Simon Michaël and Didier Kaminka

Twelve Monkeys (1995) remake of La Jetée (1963)
Screenplay by David Peoples & Janet Peoples
Inspired by the film "La Jetée" written and directed by Chris Marker

The Woman in Red (1984) remake of Un Éléphant, Ca Trompe Énormément (1977) (aka Pardon Mon Affaire)
Written for the Screen & directed by Gene Wilder
Based on the Screenplay "Un Éléphant, Ca Trompe Énormément" by Jean-Loup Dabadie and Yves Robert
[/quote]

 

[Fencer128]

Why do some people find it impossible to have a discussion about the French/Whoever without insulting the whole flaming country? When you start throwing insults around your arguement loses credability - it loses credability because it shows your emotion at work and therefore your bias.

I try to bite my lip ALOT round here. I have a good number of friends from all over Europe (including France) and the US - and it really gets me when you all start generalising like you do.

If you're going to lay allegations at people's doors then pick names and do it properly.

Andy

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
Why do some people find it impossible to have a discussion about the French/Whoever without insulting the whole flaming country? When you start throwing insults around your arguement loses credability - it loses credability because it shows your emotion at work and therefore your bias.

I try to bite my lip ALOT round here. I have a good number of friends from all over Europe (including France) and the US - and it really gets me when you all start generalising like you do.

If you're going to lay allegations at people's doors then pick names and do it properly.

Andy

The American way of life is the only one worth living. If others do not choose our way, then they are fools or idiots. They owe it to themselves to emulate the US. We are superior in all ways. The thought that other perspectives are as valid to the Europeans as our are to us is ridiculous. After all, we have the worlds mightiest fighting force, and that proves we are inherently better than you.


(please use sarcasm meter before replying)

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
My question was directed to residents of the EU.
I'm a Fool ? When did Utah or New York become members of the EU.
I was asking for them to comment on THEIR countries work ethics
and their benifits that went with working there.

We already know that the US is a work-to-death society.
The vacation compensation and work week is not for us
to negotiate - that's in the companys grip.
Our society used to embrace a 60 hour - no overtime work week,
but that ended back in the 20's or 30's with industrialization.
the 40 hour work week has only been a standard since the 40's.

Again - It's their countries not ours, if their structure pays them to
work a 36 hour week and taxes them accordingly, and provides
retirement, medical, and child care - that's their deal.
If 58 % work for their socialistic government - so what ?
It's their government and their country ? What do you want to do BOMB THEM ?

The U.S. better learn real soon that it can not consume 80 % of the world resources,
and tell 95 % of the world's population how to cater to our elitist 5 %, or we'll find out
that is U.S. has become a lonely Fortress America.

You mention 10% unemployment in Germany - our ADVERTISED nimber is 6%, but in reality
it is as high as 20% in some states with populations the size of Germany.
We have cities where due to plant closures the unemployment came neary to 1/2 the population
Try equating some of our states with their countries - closer population count of the statistical numbers.

We now know how Utah and New York think about how Germany and France should behave,
how about the people who actually live in these countries, they get a say in how they
get to live don't they ? Or dosen't their opinion count in the eyes of the Average U.S. Citizen.
How about those Swedes, or Belgians, or the Dutch, and there's Litchenstien - huge place.

Continental Europe is a mess. They need to reform their rigid, socialist-laden, work culture/policies. If anything, the continental europeans should follow the british model. Then, once they've adjusted to it, embrace the American model.

What's the American model? Work your employees like cattle, then spit them out with no pension and health insurance and replace them with younger, cheaper labor? I would let French worry about their problems, and we can worry about ours. They aren't asking us to pay for their socialism. They DEMOCRATICALLY chose to have socialistic government. They chose to have shorter work hours and social protections at the expense of higher taxes and maybe slower economy. Noone forced them to do it. If they change their mind tomorrow, they can vote to try something else.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Its true the French are very lazy. My grandfather is from that silly country and he was one lazy eight year-old until his mother came over to the US as a war-bride and then my Grandpa had to come to the US all by himself. Upon setting foot on US soil he was intantly changed into an uber-hardworking lumber-jack and worked his @ss off until a few years ago. Thank God he came to this country, I would've still had that lazy gene.

I'm glad I don't live there, but I agree with SuperTool that its their problem and their choice, they are a democracy at heart. As for this french-bashing its gotten pretty silly. Bash the Chirac administration if anything, I've still got some living relatives over there that aren't to happy with Chirac OR Bush. I rely on France for three things...Art, wine, & cheese...that's it...

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
As for this french-bashing its gotten pretty silly. Bash the Chirac administration if anything, I've still got some living relatives over there that aren't to happy with Chirac OR Bush. I rely on France for three things...Art, wine, & cheese...that's it...

I agree. It's time people differentiate between people and government.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
As for this french-bashing its gotten pretty silly. Bash the Chirac administration if anything, I've still got some living relatives over there that aren't to happy with Chirac OR Bush. I rely on France for three things...Art, wine, & cheese...that's it...

I agree. It's time people differentiate between people and government.

But it takes so much energy! LOL

 

[Macro2]

Does this apply to French hookers too?

 

[sMiLeYz]

Originally posted by: Vadatajs
Why should we, the USA care? This is just pointless french bashing, thanks a lot, oh enlightened one...

This French bashing is absurd, I mean its one thing to disagree with the French government... but to bash French people, culture, and history which in no way reflects the government.

Very convienant of everyone to forget that France helped the states fight the British for independence and kept the formidable British navy at bay, or that the statue of Liberty is FRENCH. Why dont we rename it Freedom Lady or something huh?

I also find it hilarious that both Putin and Schoder have said alot worse things about the US and Bush than Chirac ever did, yet it seems like the French are more convienant political targets for conservatives.

Sometimes I'm embarassed as an American to see the simple minded bigotry thats so prevailent in the anandtech forums. Is this the way Americans should act? To ridicule anyone who disagrees with us? To dismiss dissent as a unpatriotic, cowardly, or a danger to freedom?

 

[sandorski]

OMG! The French People are actively trying to get their way in their own country! WTF has Democracy come too when People try to determine what the Government does? Shock! Horror!! We're all gonna die!!!!!

 

[AndrewR]

For anyone defending the French, I would like to know how long you have spent in the country as that directly impacts your ability to comment on their situation. I lived over there for a year. Certainly doesn't make me an expert, but I do have some firsthand knowledge.

The notion of the 35 hour work week is ludicrous. The French government will not admit that the biggest impediment to hiring additional workers is the massive payment to the government that each employee costs the hiring company. I honestly cannot remember the number, but it is significant and much higher than the equivalent in the States. The problem is that they cannot lower that number if they want to continue their socialist structure, and there's no bargaining about dismantling any of their beloved welfare state.

That being said, the French seem to love to strike. I remember strikes practically every week, from the SNCF to the buses and trams to the bakers, road workers, etc., etc. They have unions for nearly everything, and their physical fitness plan always seemed to be picketing with banners. I particularly enjoyed the farmers' protests, since they would tend to dump potatoes or other vegetables into the roadways, blocking traffic for miles! The pictures on TV were hilarious.

The amusing part is that for employees who do work for a living, like an assistant hotel manager I talked to at a luxury hotel in Paris who works about 60 hours/week, they are given 1.5x their wage for those extra hours and extra time off so he accumulates something like 8 weeks of vacation per year. He couldn't take most of it but could cash it in for additional money. In short, he made a killing off the system and didn't mind one bit. He was also German.

For those whining about the work week in the United States, you really need to grow up and stop bitching. Take a look at Japan if you want to see people working hard. My friend in Tokyo averages between 12-16 hours per day on the job and is perfectly happy with that. He lives in a company-run dormitory and goes home to his folks' place on the weekend. He gets 2 weeks vacation per year and that doesn't change unless he hits the upper echelons of management.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
For anyone defending the French, I would like to know how long you have spent in the country as that directly impacts your ability to comment on their situation. I lived over there for a year. Certainly doesn't make me an expert, but I do have some firsthand knowledge.

The notion of the 35 hour work week is ludicrous. The French government will not admit that the biggest impediment to hiring additional workers is the massive payment to the government that each employee costs the hiring company. I honestly cannot remember the number, but it is significant and much higher than the equivalent in the States. The problem is that they cannot lower that number if they want to continue their socialist structure, and there's no bargaining about dismantling any of their beloved welfare state.

That being said, the French seem to love to strike. I remember strikes practically every week, from the SNCF to the buses and trams to the bakers, road workers, etc., etc. They have unions for nearly everything, and their physical fitness plan always seemed to be picketing with banners. I particularly enjoyed the farmers' protests, since they would tend to dump potatoes or other vegetables into the roadways, blocking traffic for miles! The pictures on TV were hilarious.

The amusing part is that for employees who do work for a living, like an assistant hotel manager I talked to at a luxury hotel in Paris who works about 60 hours/week, they are given 1.5x their wage for those extra hours and extra time off so he accumulates something like 8 weeks of vacation per year. He couldn't take most of it but could cash it in for additional money. In short, he made a killing off the system and didn't mind one bit. He was also German.

For those whining about the work week in the United States, you really need to grow up and stop bitching. Take a look at Japan if you want to see people working hard. My friend in Tokyo averages between 12-16 hours per day on the job and is perfectly happy with that. He lives in a company-run dormitory and goes home to his folks' place on the weekend. He gets 2 weeks vacation per year and that doesn't change unless he hits the upper echelons of management.

It's thier choice. I think they have a fine balance where the most succesful are still able to become millionairs while at the same time no one is totally left out and can get a free education and medical care. Under pure capitalism with low taxes and low social benfits you get Angola, Chile, or Solmalia (which basically has social darwinism going on). There is a reason the west, japan, singapore,and america is the most succesful places on the planet. It all boils down to if you care about your people they will care about doing thier part.

 

[LunarRay]

I doubt if that site is really impartial. They forget to mention that hiring more people leads to higher training costs. It also leads to higher insurance and other liability costs. the fact is, hiring more people for what a few can do is just dimb.

If you need to fulfill a 400hr/week slot at your job, and you hire 11 people, as opposed to 10, then you are paying more than you would otherwise have to. That is just plain dumb. If they want even more people employed, they may as well reduce the work-week to 10 hours and let everyone be employed.[/quote]

There are a number of factors to consider other than the pure math.
Productivity is one. Where 10 people produce X quantity during say 400 man hours where as 11 people produce quantity Xplus during 385 man hours. This results in a savings of 15 man hours of wages. An increase in goods produced thus lowering the unit cost... offsetting this is the additional social benifit cost to the employer... however, at the end of the day (Andy) there is a net savings to the government as well as the employer because folks tend not to produce at the same rate in a 40 hr week vs a 35 hr week...
This notion I employed in Ireland when the Co. I worked for set up a mfg facility there.
There, however, The IDA was interested in getting more workers employed and provided incentives accordingly but the figures still showed the benifit.
The US has similar issues... regarding productivity... but, more in the maxing out the capacity of infrastructure via multi shift with required down time for maint... etc.

 

[freakflag]

Can the french government surrender to it's own people?

I'll bet they can....

 

[CaptnKirk]

If the French have learned to strike so effectively that they can easily paralyze the country,
it looks like they learned well from their Union Brothers in Motor City and Steel Town U.S.A.
Makes me proud that they copy the policies of American Labor Movement.
Probably really makes management angry too.

Japan ? Got to love a society where the Home and Family is second or third behind
meeting the Company Image, 12 - 16 hours work for a set salary, extra hours after
work away from your family at home groveling to the bosses about how wonderful they are.
Oh no, can't do any thing to stand out in Nippon Society, must blend in always.
early to work to be seen by boss and peers, late at work to be seen by same.
Don't miss work or not make it to honerable party, might be you talked about.
Talk bad, bad job, bad employee, too bad, bye - bye.
Probably makes Management lead the Company Thinking Song with glee.

Gonna get a large Pizza, 2 beers and a coke.
What you mean $ 200 ? No way - Way !

(Nope, after thinking it over - don't like French movies either)
Knew some of the names - didn't care.
Any talent as good as Roseanne Barr there ?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: freakflag
Can the french government surrender to it's own people?

I'll bet they can....

HAHA Now, finally, we see thier problem.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
If the French have learned to strike so effectively that they can easily paralyze the country,
it looks like they learned well from their Union Brothers in Motor City and Steel Town U.S.A.
Makes me proud that they copy the policies of American Labor Movement.
Probably really makes management angry too.

Japan ? Got to love a society where the Home and Family is second or third behind
meeting the Company Image, 12 - 16 hours work for a set salary, extra hours after
work away from your family at home groveling to the bosses about how wonderful they are.
Oh no, can't do any thing to stand out in Nippon Society, must blend in always.
early to work to be seen by boss and peers, late at work to be seen by same.
Don't miss work or not make it to honerable party, might be you talked about.
Talk bad, bad job, bad employee, too bad, bye - bye.
Probably makes Management lead the Company Thinking Song with glee.

Gonna get a large Pizza, 2 beers and a coke.
What you mean $ 200 ? No way - Way !

(Nope, after thinking it over - don't like French movies either)
Knew some of the names - didn't care.
Any talent as good as Roseanne Barr there ?

When was the last time you visited Japan, lived in Japan, or talked to an actual Japanese person? I would like to know the basis for your claims against the Japanese people and culture because it appears as if you are an expert.

Let me address some gross inaccuracies just for fun. While the Japanese do work a great deal, they also value their families tremendously. The children here walk and play with absolutely no fear of abduction, crime, or vehicle accidents because they are secure from all of those. I haven't discussed this at length with any Japanese people, but it almost seems as if they view children as national treasures (which of course they are) and take an interest in their collective well-being. $200 for a large pizza, two beers, and a Coke? Maybe you received the gaijin-hating price or something, but a large pizza around here costs about $30 and maybe $10-20 more on the mainland.

And WTF is with this "prose as poetry" formatting style? It's probably the most annoying writing style I've seen on AT to date.

 

[Ferocious]

Bush wants to get rid of the 40- hour work week.

bleh.

 

[Thraxen]

Take a look at Japan if you want to see people working hard. My friend in Tokyo averages between 12-16 hours per day on the job and is perfectly happy with that.

So? I know lots of people like that in the USA. Last study I heard about (a year or two ago) said that the average person in the USA worked two weeks more per year than the average worker in the next closest country (Japan).

 

[JellyBaby]

Its true the French are very lazy.

I thought they put their Chefs through Hell in Cullinary School?

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
For anyone defending the French, I would like to know how long you have spent in the country as that directly impacts your ability to comment on their situation. I lived over there for a year. Certainly doesn't make me an expert, but I do have some firsthand knowledge.

The notion of the 35 hour work week is ludicrous. The French government will not admit that the biggest impediment to hiring additional workers is the massive payment to the government that each employee costs the hiring company. I honestly cannot remember the number, but it is significant and much higher than the equivalent in the States. The problem is that they cannot lower that number if they want to continue their socialist structure, and there's no bargaining about dismantling any of their beloved welfare state.

That being said, the French seem to love to strike. I remember strikes practically every week, from the SNCF to the buses and trams to the bakers, road workers, etc., etc. They have unions for nearly everything, and their physical fitness plan always seemed to be picketing with banners. I particularly enjoyed the farmers' protests, since they would tend to dump potatoes or other vegetables into the roadways, blocking traffic for miles! The pictures on TV were hilarious.

The amusing part is that for employees who do work for a living, like an assistant hotel manager I talked to at a luxury hotel in Paris who works about 60 hours/week, they are given 1.5x their wage for those extra hours and extra time off so he accumulates something like 8 weeks of vacation per year. He couldn't take most of it but could cash it in for additional money. In short, he made a killing off the system and didn't mind one bit. He was also German.

For those whining about the work week in the United States, you really need to grow up and stop bitching. Take a look at Japan if you want to see people working hard. My friend in Tokyo averages between 12-16 hours per day on the job and is perfectly happy with that. He lives in a company-run dormitory and goes home to his folks' place on the weekend. He gets 2 weeks vacation per year and that doesn't change unless he hits the upper echelons of management.

I lived in France on and off for a couple of years (my girlfriend was French and so I would regularly go to visit her). The Japanese certainly work hard - but you call that a life? No way I would set that as a positive example.

The only issues I've mentioned/highlighted in this thread are the xenophobic ones. You're right - most people don't have the first-hand experience to lend too much insight into France (obviously, that doesn't mean they can't comment - only that you have to tread carefully). However, there is far too much underlying xenophobia floating around, and to be honest, this thread in many ways appears to be just a subtle extension of that.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[freegeeks]

1)wankers like Dari don't have a clue what they are talking about. Look up some threads and he has one goal. Bash everything that is european. He has has some strange obession about the French. He needs medical treatment for it.

2)french workers are not lazy. Do some research and you'll notice that european countries are very productive (even more productive then the US or very close).



In 2001, according to the report from the Conference Board I cited last

week, three members of the European Union had higher output per hour

worked (measured at 1996 purchasing power parity) than the US: Belgium

(on 112 per cent of the US level), France (102 per cent) and the Netherlands

(101 per cent). A further four countries were close to the US: Ireland (98 per

cent), Austria (96 per cent), Denmark (94 per cent) and Germany, despite

unification (93 per cent). Note that five of these top seven countries were

relatively small ones.

Then came Italy (88 per cent), Finland (86 per cent) and Sweden (82 per

cent). The laggards were the UK (80 per cent), Spain (76 per cent), Greece

(59 per cent) and Portugal (52 per cent). Luxembourg is omitted. The

obsession of Gordon Brown, the chancellor, with the UK's lower productivity

is not misplaced. Furthermore, while the UK has fallen from a leading

position, Spain, Portugal and Greece are coming from behind.


I'm from Belgium so I am 12% more productive then you Dari. I bet your uberamerican superiority ego has a hard time dealing with the fact that the average french is more productive then the average american worker.


go also to this link if you want some information about the myth of US productivity.


This is just another euro-french bashing thread. The US is a great country to live and so are the west-european and scandinivian countries. Is it so hard to understand for some americans that there are outside the US other countries with a high quality of living.

I like my 38 hours week and my 8 weeks of paid vacation. So what. I work hard (harder then americans when I look at the statistics ). Each has his own priorities and mine is not a 80 hours workweek.

note: to all the US posterboys raving about the UK model. They have a lower productivity then continental europe and their national health system is one of the worst of europe because of decades of neglect (this is not a UK bash - just stating the facts). There was a thread some months ago about the productivity in a Toyota production facility in the UK and France. The Japanese management was complaining that the UK facility was far less productive then the French plant.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Isn't the standard work week in Europe around 35 - 37 hours everywhere?

Seems like the U.S. is the country that is stuck on underpaying the workers, and minimalizing benifits.
Most of those countries give 3 weeks vacation for every 4 months worked or their abouts i've heard.

It may not be lazy, it may just a different way of doing business where corprate proffit is not the driver.
People of Middle Earth, tell us of your plight - enlighten us.
What kind of benefits and work compensation do you get in the EU ?
Medical ?, Vacation ?, Retirement ?, Blind dates with Madonna ?

Well work hrs vary greatly by country/sector/education. I am phd student/emplyed by the state/science funding org. By contract I am supposed to work 39.5 hrs/week but I do work whatver time I need to get my things done (min 38.5). If u are engineer for ex. u get a salary and definately work more than 40 hrs/week or 50 or 60 depending on so many factors (company, ambition, age...) Workers in industry often have general contracts which where basically negotiated by the unions and there u often hear those 35hr weeks but they do overtime too (payed tho)

btw work time in sweden was 42 hrs/week and 20 days vacation/year

here (.de) I currently get 26 days of vacation/year - payed. I have medical insurance (have to pay small amounts extra for medicine u get and cold medicine has to be payed completely. Retirement: I pay into the pension system yes and it is by far the largest chunk of deductions on my brutto (besides the taxes) but if I will ever get anything when I reach the age - Dunno the system might break down it might not but the so called generation treaty is that the young are supposed to come up with the pension for the current generation of pensioners.
other benefits: unemployment insurance, payed sick days (up to xx days - dunno dont get sick more than maybe 3-5 days a year), ... what do I know I dont get much use of all the social benefits I just provide