French officials decide that Buriki cannot be worn at a swimming pool, despite its design exclusively as swimwear

[SimplyComplex]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Bullshit. A woman's beautiful body should never be covered up.

Seconded.

Really, I wouldn't mind this law in some ways. Muslim woman are horribly opressed, even in their own families(the ones that would this, anyway).
However, all this is going to do is make the women more isolated. Instead of going to the pool or beach or whatever in less clothing, they simply won't go at all.
The more isolated you make them, the worse their problem is going to get.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
I think people wearing clothes in the pool is retarded.

They are simply re-educating these morons.



Yes, I think any woman stupid enough to be oppressed by jealous men through their religion is a moron.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." - Oscar Wilde

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

I agree with you for the most part, but the fact remains that the Muslim religion is in many ways at odds with western societies and culture. If adapting to the western society is not acceptable because certain fundamental rules of the religion do not jibe with fundamental rules of the western society, then those who cannot accept those principles should move to some other country. In France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality. Certain Muslims (by no means all of them) simply can not accept that concept, because it goes counter to their beliefs. The burqa is a symbol of that problem, and the French have decided that they will not accept it. I see no problem with their position.

Again, I have not read anything in the articles referenced that indicates she was banned from the pool because of her religious beliefs. She was booted because she violated rules that apply to everyone, no matter how silly some might think those rules are. She's whining about religious freedom etc, when it has nothing to do with it. If a guy showed up in jeans, he'd have the same result she did. It just happens to affect her because of her nutty beliefs, but that's her problem.

I can say the same thing with different Christian groups about being at odds with 'western societies and culture'. Islam is just a convenient target for today's world. I suggest you try to define that vague term first if you will invoke it.

No doubt there are similar conflicts with other religions -- the pharmacists refusing to dispense birth control is an example. In that scenario I say the same to them: suck it up, either get a different job or get rid of the nutty religious views.

Again, she was wearing swimwear. If you want to somehow suggest that material designed for a pool is equivalent to a pair of jeans, I'd like to see you spell out the argument.

You call it swimwear, they do not. Who gets to decide what is "swimwear"... those making the law, that's who.

See I feel there is a HUGE disconnect when you say, "France for example, it's not about the hijab / burqa / whatever it's called, it's about the fundamental principal of gender equality". It is as if you understand very little. A Hijab is not the same as a Burqa, is not the same as a Niqab, and exists in many diferent styles. How can you lump them all together when a hijab and Burqa are VERY different http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared...uslim_veils/html/1.stm

I'm very well aware that there are differences between the various types of veils. It's irrelevant though, to most western societies they have all come to symbolize the same thing: oppression and inequality of women. Sure, they look different and different women wear them for different reasons, but that doesn't change what are are seen to represent -- and each society gets to decide what is appropriate to wear in public. Don't like it? Move somewhere else, or work through the political system to change the rule. As long as the rules are applies consistently, there's no discrimination.

Furthermore, you take the line that the Hjiab (or 'whatever' you are thinking of, as I can't tell) is not part of gender equality at all. Then you simply don't understand why MANY women wear the Hijab voluntarily.

Sure it's "voluntarily", they don't know any different, they were raised in that environment. "Voluntarily" agreeing that women are not equal to men doesn't make it ok. Personally, I think it's idiotic to wear that stuff, but if they want to wear it, it doesn't affect me in any way so I'm fine with them wearing it. It's not the act of wearing a certain item of clothing that people have a problem with, it's what it symbolizes. Hanging a noose on the door of a black person in Alabama doesn't directly harm them, but it symbolizes something much more than the simple act itself.

The French have decided what they think is appropriate, and after all, they get to decide what is acceptable in their society.

If you see a lady wearing a Hijab on the street, I would suggest to ask her why she wears one.

I had a good friend from Turkey for a long time who used to sometimes wear a hijab occasionally. I never figured out the purpose of "sometimes" wearing one, but that's another matter. Asked why she wore one at all, she just shrugged and said "because that's how I was raised".

It is interesting how the west always assumes that women who wear the Burqa do so because they are forced or pressured into it.

Some wear it by choice, some are forced, and many just don't know any better, they are simply raised from birth to believe it to be the right thing to do.

I guess they were expecting that all women will go in the street and throw the Burqas the moment they saw the Americans? as we all know,? did not happen.

Well duh, just because you free them physically doesn't mean they are free mentally, it's going to take generations.

I am not sure how women who wear the hijab are not dignified, but women who get cheated on through sex scandals by their partners are??.

Huh? What does being cheated on have to do with anything? If a man cheats on his gf/wife, she can decide if she will accept it or not.

I, as a women find that interesting, i wonder how other women feel about it? also I wonder how Sarkozy can speak about women?s dignity? when he was checking a young woman?s butt in a very indignified way?

Since when does whether a man "checks out" a womans butt have anything to do with her dignity??

I guess we should aspire to a world where women have their full rights, but let?s not get too lost in the western idea of rights to a point where we ignore the right to chose, and the right to be different in the process?

They are not mutually exclusive, nor are they incompatible.

Except you mis read what was written by him. Your logic of "If sociey [ie:majority] says its banned, then its banned" simply leads to tyranny of the majority on the minority.

.... as opposed to the minority imposing it's views of what is acceptable onto the majority? Everyone is free to have their views and beliefs, but that doesn't mean everyone else should change to suit their beliefs. If that means "you will dispense medicine if you're a pharmacist", or "you can't wear xyz outfit in a public pool", so be it.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

I'm very well aware that there are differences between the various types of veils. It's irrelevant though, to most western societies they have all come to symbolize the same thing: oppression and inequality of women. Sure, they look different and different women wear them for different reasons, but that doesn't change what are are seen to represent -- and each society gets to decide what is appropriate to wear in public. Don't like it? Move somewhere else, or work through the political system to change the rule. As long as the rules are applies consistently, there's no discrimination.

Again this is authoritarianism and allows domination of the minority by the majority. You say that so as long as the rulres are applied consistently, it is fine. Look at many cases in the past 100 years where a minority has been discriminated against for being different.
As hard as it is for you to believe, many choose to voluntarily wear the hijab, adn it is NOT a symbol of oppression for them. Your perception of the hijab is irrelevant. The perception of the one who wears it is all that matters. You say that because many 'western' socities look at it as a symbol of oppression (And I would still challenge that statement. Most probably don't know or don't care at all, having no idea what it is about. Does an opinion based on pure ignorance count? No) that it must be so. Well here is some info hot stuff: Arabs are looked at as terrorists in our society, must it be so? Islam has a negative view in our society, is that the real truth?

Sure it's "voluntarily", they don't know any different, they were raised in that environment. "Voluntarily" agreeing that women are not equal to men doesn't make it ok. Personally, I think it's idiotic to wear that stuff, but if they want to wear it, it doesn't affect me in any way so I'm fine with them wearing it. It's not the act of wearing a certain item of clothing that people have a problem with, it's what it symbolizes. Hanging a noose on the door of a black person in Alabama doesn't directly harm them, but it symbolizes something much more than the simple act itself.

The French have decided what they think is appropriate, and after all, they get to decide what is acceptable in their society.

Wow...comparing a Hijab to a noose? Listen, I understand why some people think a Hijab is a symbol of opression, because at times it can be used this way. I'm opposed to the forceful wearing of a hijab. It should be of a women's own volition. But clearly you don't get it when you draw this comparison. Would it take women arguing and fighting to wear their hijabs to convince you otherwise?
I never said women were not equal to men, and I never said that the Hijab stands for that. However, employing your logic, if you can get society to agree to that, then it is fine and acceptable, because society makes the rules.

I had a good friend from Turkey for a long time who used to sometimes wear a hijab occasionally. I never figured out the purpose of "sometimes" wearing one, but that's another matter. Asked why she wore one at all, she just shrugged and said "because that's how I was raised".

And she didn't detail on and on about how she was oppressed? And how it was horrible for her? And how it was like a noose around her head?

your quoting an article

The purpose of the article was simply to illustrate that all this inflated idealistic talk about 'gender equality' is just bullshit. Talking about how oppressed women are who wear Hijabs (and they 'simply don't know otherwise' claim as if they are ignorant is even more ridiculous) is just avoiding many of the real problems in society. A women can be forced to not wear a hjiab, and she will still face many of the same problems that the author cited.

.... as opposed to the minority imposing it's views of what is acceptable onto the majority? Everyone is free to have their views and beliefs, but that doesn't mean everyone else should change to suit their beliefs. If that means "you will dispense medicine if you're a pharmacist", or "you can't wear xyz outfit in a public pool", so be it.

Prove to me that it is the minority imposing its value of what is acceptable on a majority? There is nothing that is forcing the majority to change its beliefs. Establish how wearing a burkini in a swimming pool is equal to refusing to dispense medicine if one is a pharmacist.

You made a charge that it was not swimwear, that it was clothing. I said that this simply isn't true. It was intended at the getgo to be swimwear by the designer. It is `100% Polyester, it is UV protected, it is Chlorine Resistant, it is water repellent, it is quick drying. It was made to give mobility in the pool. There is no reason to be walking around a mall, or anywhere else, wearing this. It is clearly intended to be used in the pool, hence its swim wear.

I stated that this effects and forces no one to accommodate ANYONE at all. The only thing they "accept" is her right to swim alongside the rest of the people in the pool. That again is tolerance of others.

In the pharmacist or cab driver situation, you have a person invoking religious beliefs to not assist another person.

In this burkini can we have a person wanting to wear a different style of swimwear in order to.... prevent others from swimming? Prevent others from entering the pool? Claiming 'women's time only'? Claiming that the other women need to wear the same thin? This is where your argument falls flat about causing the majority to accommodate a minority. There is nothing of that sort. Period.

 

[BoomerD]

If the Muslims want to wear "burkini's" in a swimming pool, they should build one for themselves.

No clothing means NO CLOTHING. While the burkini MAY be designed for swimming, if the local culture says it's not acceptable...it's not acceptable.

Muslims do NOT have the right to demand that non-muslim nations accept their standards, or impose their morals on these peoples.

If they don't like the moral standards of other nations...GTFO.

Here in the USA, we have an invasion of non-English speaking Mexicans (and Central and South Americans) who refuse to learn the "Language of the Land," and DEMAND that things be made available in Spanish...
IMO, learn to speak English...or GTFO.
I should NOT have to learn to speak Spanish in the workplace just to accommodate Spanish speakers who refuse to learn English.


Political Correctness is running amok in the world today.

 

[GoPackGo]

The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
If the Muslims want to wear "burkini's" in a swimming pool, they should build one for themselves.

No clothing means NO CLOTHING. While the burkini MAY be designed for swimming, if the local culture says it's not acceptable...it's not acceptable.

Muslims do NOT have the right to demand that non-muslim nations accept their standards, or impose their morals on these peoples.

If they don't like the moral standards of other nations...GTFO.

Here in the USA, we have an invasion of non-English speaking Mexicans (and Central and South Americans) who refuse to learn the "Language of the Land," and DEMAND that things be made available in Spanish...
IMO, learn to speak English...or GTFO.
I should NOT have to learn to speak Spanish in the workplace just to accommodate Spanish speakers who refuse to learn English.


Political Correctness is running amok in the world today.

:thumbsup: Exactly.

No clothing means NO CLOTHING. While the burkini MAY be designed for swimming, if the local culture says it's not acceptable...it's not acceptable.

Yes, but people who want to impose their beliefs on society insist that society must change it's views of what is acceptable pool attire to accommodate them. No, you want to wear something to the pool that society doesn't like? Build your own pool and wear whatever you want.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

A prime example of what happens when political correctness goes unchecked. Next thing you know, the will of the minority groups is imposed on society in general.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
If the Muslims want to wear "burkini's" in a swimming pool, they should build one for themselves.

No clothing means NO CLOTHING. While the burkini MAY be designed for swimming, if the local culture says it's not acceptable...it's not acceptable.

Muslims do NOT have the right to demand that non-muslim nations accept their standards, or impose their morals on these peoples.

If they don't like the moral standards of other nations...GTFO.

Here in the USA, we have an invasion of non-English speaking Mexicans (and Central and South Americans) who refuse to learn the "Language of the Land," and DEMAND that things be made available in Spanish...
IMO, learn to speak English...or GTFO.
I should NOT have to learn to speak Spanish in the workplace just to accommodate Spanish speakers who refuse to learn English.


Political Correctness is running amok in the world today.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck. Doesn't matter if you want to call it clothing. Burkinis are not made for any other use beyond the swimming pool.

Geez boomer. A woman swimming in a Burkin is forcing you to accept her standard? It is forcing you to accept her morals upon yourself?
No.

The rest of your post is fucking offtopic to hell and deserves no response at all. I'll point out something to you: many girls that I know that wear hijabs can barely speak their own native languages, and they will all sound like valley girls to you. Of course, its impossible to envision that they were born here in the US, because they must not be part of this society if they are wearing a hijab, riiiight?

Yes, but people who want to impose their beliefs on society insist that society must change it's views of what is acceptable pool attire to accommodate them. No, you want to wear something to the pool that society doesn't like? Build your own pool and wear whatever you want.

You still do not see that they are not imposing their beliefs on society

 

[magomago]

The arguments against come down to two reasons:


(a) it is clothing.
The response to (a) is that its designed for use only in the pool, the material its made from and the attributes that are listed CLEARLY establish this. If it was clothing, then perhaps, but it isn't clothing

(b) They can't impose their standards on society.
Beyond the obvious fallacy that these people are somehow 'outside society', they are imposing no standard on anyone. Many keep claiming that "They can't impose our beliefs on us!" when there is nothing being forced on you! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The UK has gone the complete opposite:

No Burquini, No Bathing: British Pools Impose Muslim Dress Codes on All Swimmers

A prime example of what happens when political correctness goes unchecked. Next thing you know, the will of the minority groups is imposed on society in general.

Let us get some things straight:

(a) These are special sessions only. They don't exist normally (Although I guess it isn't up to Fox News to report the truth, is it?) and only happen for 1.5 hours every Saturday and Sunday.


(b) My position is that the lady should be able to wear what she wants to wear. Muslims dressing in more formal clothing does not mean that other women have to do it. This is a case where I would say the minority is imposing on a majority. If they want to resolve it they have two choices: agree on a specific time, not during peak usage, where 'Muslim Attire Swim' can occur. If there can be no consensus, and the community is persistent on having everyone wear modest swimwear, then this community should fund its own private pool, or find a pool that they can lease for the hours they want to use it for.

But notice how this is in no way shape or form the same as "I just want to go to a pool and swim in swimwear that covers things up moreso...I don't care what the others are doing, just let me swim"

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: magomago

(b) They can't impose their standards on society.
Beyond the obvious fallacy that these people are somehow 'outside society', they are imposing no standard on anyone. Many keep claiming that "They can't impose our beliefs on us!" when there is nothing being forced on you! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

It's funny because you are pushing your preference for individualism on other societies. The idea that each man is an island is in the end a fiction. In the US, we (generally) put the individual's rights above the group's rights and therefore I imagine this would never happen in the US (or Canada or apparently Britain).

France is relatively individualistic but not as individualistic as the "Anglo" cultures. Let the French be. It DOES make a difference when women are walking around with Burkas or Burkinis. It breaks the cultural norms. It bothers people and reminds them about Islam and what it means. It's not like they're attacking people but it's still affects other people. People are not robots that can put blinders on ignoring those they choose to. France is the land of the French and French culture. They have a right to control social behavior to a certain limits. There are tons of other countries that promote ridiculous Muslim customs. They should go there. By wearing the burkas they are OUTSIDE FRENCH SOCIETY.

Bottom line is YOU are pushing your sense of indignant individualism on others. (And of course your individualism is not welcome in Muslim countries.)

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: magomago

(b) They can't impose their standards on society.
Beyond the obvious fallacy that these people are somehow 'outside society', they are imposing no standard on anyone. Many keep claiming that "They can't impose our beliefs on us!" when there is nothing being forced on you! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

It's funny because you are pushing your preference for individualism on other societies. The idea that each man is an island is in the end a fiction. In the US, we (generally) put the individual's rights above the group's rights and therefore I imagine this would never happen in the US (or Canada or apparently Britain).

France is relatively individualistic but not as individualistic as the "Anglo" cultures. Let the French be. It DOES make a difference when women are walking around with Burkas or Burkinis. It breaks the cultural norms. It bothers people and reminds them about Islam and what it means. It's not like they're attacking people but it's still affects other people. People are not robots that can put blinders on ignoring those they choose to. France is the land of the French and French culture. They have a right to control social behavior to a certain limits. There are tons of other countries that promote ridiculous Muslim customs. They should go there. By wearing the burkas they are OUTSIDE FRENCH SOCIETY.

Bottom line is YOU are pushing your sense of indignant individualism on others. (And of course your individualism is not welcome in Muslim countries.)

The case resonates because in France, "most agree that ostentatious religious signs should not be shown in public space," said Jean Viard, director of the Cevipof political research center at the National Center for Scientific Research.

link

France has their values, just like any other countries on earth has their own value system, whether it's Yemen, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, or wherever it is on earth. But I don't see anyone here demanding those countries to shed their values to accommodate Western values.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: magomago

(b) They can't impose their standards on society.
Beyond the obvious fallacy that these people are somehow 'outside society', they are imposing no standard on anyone. Many keep claiming that "They can't impose our beliefs on us!" when there is nothing being forced on you! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

It's funny because you are pushing your preference for individualism on other societies. The idea that each man is an island is in the end a fiction. In the US, we (generally) put the individual's rights above the group's rights and therefore I imagine this would never happen in the US (or Canada or apparently Britain).

France is relatively individualistic but not as individualistic as the "Anglo" cultures. Let the French be. It DOES make a difference when women are walking around with Burkas or Burkinis. It breaks the cultural norms. It bothers people and reminds them about Islam and what it means. It's not like they're attacking people but it's still affects other people. People are not robots that can put blinders on ignoring those they choose to. France is the land of the French and French culture. They have a right to control social behavior to a certain limits. There are tons of other countries that promote ridiculous Muslim customs. They should go there. By wearing the burkas they are OUTSIDE FRENCH SOCIETY.

Bottom line is YOU are pushing your sense of indignant individualism on others. (And of course your individualism is not welcome in Muslim countries.)

Of course, I never acted as if people are on their own islands. I stated repeatedly the only thing they must Accept is having burkini swimmers alongside them. If a person sees something of Islam and freaks out it is no more than acceptable than seeing a black person walking on the streets and getting nervous. Of course, I'm not saying they can't freak out. They can choose to be prejudice if they want, but they can't interfere with something that has no bearing on their functional life. It is like the stupid "gay marriage" argument because people take such an interest in what isn't about their lives. Will it mean they have to tolerate married gays around them? Yep. But doesn't mean they have to agree with it at all, simply state "I'll tolerate your existence in public locations that belongs to all of us, including you, and not just me".

You know what, I am pushing others to accept these women to go and swim. You know why? For me, it simply isn't a random 'population' of females who wear Hijabs. I can put actual faces, names, and experiences to these women. I know some of them actually want to go out and swim, but for their personal reasons (many may think they simply are 'oppressed' but when you speak to them and realize how smart they are, you start to see that they actually appreciate and enjoy their hjiab) they feel they can't. This actually gives them a chance to go out, to swim, and to enjoy places like the beach. I know other Muslim women who don't wear hijabs but are equally as uncomfortable in a bikini. By forcing them away on the false notion of 'accomodating them', you prevent people's assimilation into a new culture and you futher isolate them. Who would have thought that isolating immigrants further is what advocated.

So when I read this, I say "You have to be kidding me. This isn't controlling social behavior within acceptable limits...they are simply not trying to tolerate them!"

lastly, you said, "It bothers people and reminds them about Islam and what it means". On a side note --> we better get used to Muslims. Many of them live in our societies and have no intention of 'leaving'. We are becoming a part of the 'western life' within the limits that we are comfortable with, and we have very little to no roots left from "home countries" that many seem to tell us to go back to.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Magomago,

you're biased as hell towards your own flavour of religion.

Your title is clearly a bait, and it gets worse from then on:
"[...]women can't wear modest clothing at the pool"...??? Just reflect for a moment on the inanity of your phrase.

I tell you what, good for the French. Their country, their rules. They're perfectly entitled to keeping the traditional French way of life. To suggest anything else is to insult democracy.

Oh and also:

Originally posted by: Kadarin
If a bunch of French people (or non-Muslim people) immigrated into a Muslim dominated country and insisted on wearing bikinis or going topless to the beach, do you think the people in the host country would object? Something tells me that Muslims would be perfectly ok with a double standard here.

This.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Magomago,

you're biased as hell towards your own flavour of religion.

Your title is clearly a bait, and it gets worse from then on:
"[...]women can't wear modest clothing at the pool"...??? Just reflect for a moment on the inanity of your phrase.

You know what, I'll take your critique. There you go, title changed.

I believe my "bias" is the result of my EXPERIENCE with something.


I tell you what, good for the French. Their country, their rules. They're perfectly entitled to keeping the traditional French way of life. To suggest anything else is to insult democracy.

Oh and also:

Originally posted by: Kadarin
If a bunch of French people (or non-Muslim people) immigrated into a Muslim dominated country and insisted on wearing bikinis or going topless to the beach, do you think the people in the host country would object? Something tells me that Muslims would be perfectly ok with a double standard here.

This.[/quote]

I'm supposed to look at 'Muslim Countries' as a gauge of what to do? Something tells me I'd be opposed to it as well.

If you want to fix what Kadarin said, you should be say: "If a bunch of people immigrated to a country in which they become a significant minority and are from a different culture, they will be discriminated against".

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: cumhail

Originally posted by: TruePaige
I think people wearing clothes in the pool is retarded.

They are simply re-educating these morons.



Yes, I think any woman stupid enough to be oppressed by jealous men through their religion is a moron.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."

Said Oscar Wilde as he made love to another teenage boy.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: magomago[/i
lastly, you said, "It bothers people and reminds them about Islam and what it means". On a side note --> we better get used to Muslims. Many of them live in our societies and have no intention of 'leaving'.

You can get used to Muslims. Let the French decide how they want to deal with them.

We are becoming a part of the 'western life' within the limits that we are comfortable with, and we have very little to no roots left from "home countries" that many seem to tell us to go back to.

So it sounds like you are Muslim. Of course you want to force your culture on other countries. Cry me a river.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Bullshit. A woman's beautiful body should never be covered up.

But an ugly woman's body should be completely covered up.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: magomago
If you want to fix what Kadarin said, you should be say: "If a bunch of people immigrated to a country in which they become a significant minority and are from a different culture, they will be discriminated against".

The use of the words "discriminated against" implies something wrong or unjust. If a group of people immigrated to a different country, they would need to adapt their behavior to integrate into the prevailing culture, or risk being alienated. It's not up to the French to change their ways. Live in France, abide by French rules and standards.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: magomago


You know what, I am pushing others to accept these women to go and swim. You know why? For me, it simply isn't a random 'population' of females who wear Hijabs. I can put actual faces, names, and experiences to these women. I know some of them actually want to go out and swim, but for their personal reasons (many may think they simply are 'oppressed' but when you speak to them and realize how smart they are, you start to see that they actually appreciate and enjoy their hjiab) they feel they can't. This actually gives them a chance to go out, to swim, and to enjoy places like the beach. I know other Muslim women who don't wear hijabs but are equally as uncomfortable in a bikini. By forcing them away on the false notion of 'accomodating them', you prevent people's assimilation into a new culture and you futher isolate them. Who would have thought that isolating immigrants further is what advocated.

I think those are the attitudes the French are trying to stop from 'infecting' their culture.

The French are very comfortable with their body images, which you'll be more than aware of if you've ever been to a public beach in the south of France. They don't view the body as shameful.

They would view those women as oppressed, and so truly oppressed that the women don't even question it or think it out of the ordinary any more.

 

[TheSlamma]

As long as they shower before they get in the pool whats the problem?

The French shouldn't worry anyway, their women in dental floss bikini's blow these women away any day.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
The use of the words "discriminated against" implies something wrong or unjust.

People who prefer to walk around covered from head to toe are discriminated against in many places, just as people who prefer to walk around bare from head to toe are discriminated against in many places. I personally prefer to keep it somewhere in the middle for myself, but I don't see anything just about limiting peoples right to choose otherwise.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: magomago[/i
lastly, you said, "It bothers people and reminds them about Islam and what it means". On a side note --> we better get used to Muslims. Many of them live in our societies and have no intention of 'leaving'.

You can get used to Muslims. Let the French decide how they want to deal with them.

We are becoming a part of the 'western life' within the limits that we are comfortable with, and we have very little to no roots left from "home countries" that many seem to tell us to go back to.

So it sounds like you are Muslim. Of course you want to force your culture on other countries. Cry me a river.

[/quote]

"My culture" is an American culture. Hint: all Muslims don't share the same culture no more than all Christians in the world share the same culture.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: magomago
If you want to fix what Kadarin said, you should be say: "If a bunch of people immigrated to a country in which they become a significant minority and are from a different culture, they will be discriminated against".

The use of the words "discriminated against" implies something wrong or unjust. If a group of people immigrated to a different country, they would need to adapt their behavior to integrate into the prevailing culture, or risk being alienated. It's not up to the French to change their ways. Live in France, abide by French rules and standards.

And when do they become French enough in their own right to say, "Hey you know what, I want to do this"?