Freesync now works with non-Freesync monitors with CRU.

Discussion in 'Video Cards and Graphics' started by Maverick177, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Maverick177

    Maverick177 Senior member

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    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/56p2mo/annoucing_freesync_over_hdmi_and_some_dvi_on_non/
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=410187'

    Awesome news:

     
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  3. kawi6rr

    kawi6rr Senior member

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    That's pretty cool looks like I have some checking to do on my system to see if I can get this working, thanks.
     
  4. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    I'm not buying it. Ona even says it works with Nvidia cards on a CRT. Then goes on give it his own name - corrective sync or some such nonsense.
     
  5. sandorski

    sandorski No Lifer

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    Does it involve drilling a hole in something? aka, also not buying it.
     
  6. Eymar

    Eymar Golden Member

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    Explanation on how it works from ToastyX: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5342107&postcount=39

    Quote:
    "
    Clearly some people here don't actually understand how FreeSync works. Don't assume this is impossible if you haven't tested it. Otherwise, you're just filling this thread with nonsense. People want to see results, not conjecture.

    FreeSync works by varying the vertical blanking interval. ALL monitors support vertical blanking. It's part of the video signal. It's how the monitor knows where one frame ends and the next frame begins. The only question is whether the monitor can handle variable vertical blanking and longer blanking intervals. CRT monitors are basically controlled directly by the video signal, so this is more likely to work with a CRT. LCD monitors without scalers and laptop screens might also work. AMD themselves even demonstrated it working on existing hardware.

    The problem is most LCD monitors on the market have scalers. LCD monitors with scalers are less likely to work without firmware changes because the scalers are usually designed to handle a limited range of refresh rates and timing parameters. The fact that some monitors are blacking out shows that it's actually doing something to the video signal and not just a driver toggle.

    I can't test this right now because I don't have a FreeSync-capable video card, but I have one on the way. I wouldn't have thought to test this with a CRT, so OnnA deserves credit for that. Unfortunately, the only CRT I have is an old 14" with a limited range, but I also have an LCD monitor without a scaler that I'd like to test this on.
    "
     
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  7. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    ToastyX is confusing adjustable refresh rate with variable refresh rate. They aren't the same thing. And having a scaler shouldn't matter at all.

    AMD demonstrated it on an EDP self refreshing panel, which guess what? EDP is what Freesync is based upon.
     
    #6 Phynaz, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  8. kraatus77

    kraatus77 Senior member

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    If it was this easy, amd-nvidia-intel and monitor makers must be stupid lol.
     
  9. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    No kidding
     
  10. Headfoot

    Headfoot Diamond Member

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    I'm not going to believe this guy when he comes right out and says he can't even test it because he doesn't have a freesync capable video card...
     
  11. Bryf50

    Bryf50 Golden Member

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    I trust ToastyX over everyone in this thread.
     
  12. antihelten

    antihelten Golden Member

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    Actually the presence of a scaler can in theory matter, since it can determine whether or not the display in question will use its own scaler (if one is present) or rely on the scaler in the GPU. If the monitor defaults to using its own scaler and this scaler isn't compatible with this alleged method, then that could stop it from working (that is assuming the method even works in the first place).

    ToastyX did actually produce some slightly more convincing evidence of this method working using the Windmill demo, which unlike the frame graphs that OnnA keeps posting, actually does indicate that FreeSync is working.

    Either way though, I would definitely wait for further confirmation on this one

    There's actually 3 different guys working on it and the guy you mention (ToastyX) has acquired a FreeSync capable card now (an RX 480 to be exact), and confirmed it as working.
     
  13. crisium

    crisium Platinum Member

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    Probably not the magic wand some are hoping for.
     
  14. VirtualLarry

    VirtualLarry Super Moderator
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    I haven't read the link yet, but I can just imagine that this will drive LCD displays that have an OSD and a scalar, completely bonkers, trying to re-sync to the signal, EVERY FRAME. No wonder some of them black out.
     
  15. nathanddrews

    nathanddrews VC&G and CPU Moderator
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    Well shiiiiiiiiit.

    ToastyX isn't one for trolling. I'll have to give this a shot tonight.
     
  16. Despoiler

    Despoiler Golden Member

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    This is completely plausible.

    For this to work on DP you would need a monitor with DP 1.2a (supports the Variable Vblanking header). The scaler/TCON vendors ships their product with the header field intact rather than having two SKUs. If the monitor vendor then isn't customizing the firmware to disable support for the VVblanking it could work. AMD shouldn't be policing this on their side either because of the way monitor and video card interactions are spec'd to work. That is to say the monitor reports it's capabilities to the video card via EDID. Notably this is why Nvidia G-Sync is a product that is not following established specs. Anyways, AMD's Freesync implementation *should* accept the monitor capabilities without question. There could be some negatives though. A non-Freesync branded(ie AMD certified) monitor will not have any specific tweaking to a model of monitor. You could get aberrations like ghosting because overdrive compensation isn't employed correctly to account for the VVblanking intervals.

    Also, this should be really easy to verify if this will work on a monitor. You just load up one of the many EDID reader programs. You can see the header support. Another thing I just thought of is that you can make your own .infs with many of these programs. If the VVBlanking header was present, but disabled you could just flip the bit to enabled by writing to a custom .inf. Adaptive-Sync for many!
     
    #15 Despoiler, Oct 12, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  17. Madpacket

    Madpacket Golden Member

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    Oh if I can get this working on my FW900 CRT I'll be happy :)

    Also if this works on Geforce cards, amazing...
     
  18. Eymar

    Eymar Golden Member

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    Definitely looks like Freesync works on non-FS branded LCD monitors based on Toasty X videos. Looks like FS branded monitors are tested for supported VRR range for EDID or monitor inf file and possibly tuned overdrive settings like Despoiler says. I think this also answers my question whether FS monitor had Freesync switch on a per game basis as sometimes Freesync would not enable when playing a game, clearly FS doesn't and AMD just assumes Freesync is on all the time on monitor side. If FS is not working on a particular game than probably issue with AMD driver.
     
  19. Shivansps

    Shivansps Golden Member

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    Already tried it did not work on my old LCD monitor, Freesync showed as "on" but still clear tearing on the red bar of AMD demo program, im calling this BS, you NEED hardware support, thats the reason of why it took well over a year after annoucing it to get to the public.

    It may work if someone has a new monitor with Freesync compatible controller that is disabled for comercial reasons.
     
  20. beginner99

    beginner99 Diamond Member

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    Of course you need hardware support. But some displays not officially labeled as Free sync still contain the needed hardware. And it doesn't have to be very new as it is all based on standards. But only way to know is to test.
     
  21. antihelten

    antihelten Golden Member

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    Actually it's not necessarily so much that some displays contain the necessary hardware without being labeled FreeSync compatible, rather it's the case that some displays don't contain Freesync incompatible hardware.

    ToastyX got this to work* on a Korean Catleap monitor, which doesn't have any scaler at all, and since it doesn't have a scaler it relies upon the scaler built in to the GPU. The scaler in the GPU is of course compatible with Freesync as long as the GPU is marketed as Freesync compatible.

    *sort of, he had to use single link DVI, so he couldn't run it at it's full resolution.
     
  22. yasamoka

    yasamoka Junior Member

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  23. IEC

    IEC Super Moderator
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    Interesting. I've got a QX2710 LED DVI-only. I'll keep an eye on this one.
     
  24. NomanA

    NomanA Member

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    ToastyX has been a great help over the years for anyone trying to overclock the monitors, past the limits in the drivers. I use QNIX QX2710 at 112Hz daily, thanks to his CRU tool, and the pixel-clock patcher.

    By the way, CRU for months has supported experimenting with Freesync range. You can for instance, get an adaptive sync monitor like LG34UC88, which I think has a range of 42-75Hz, and then change the lower range through CRU, to about 30Hz or so.

    The new changes, seem to add HDMI extension blocks for DVI monitors (to trick the driver into allowing freesync), and as long as you stay in lower pixel clock range (250MHz) it works on some monitors. And yes, not having scaler on the display control board helps a lot, even with just overclocking the monitor.

    Finally, for VESA AdaptiveSync spec wise, the only change in the protocol (software) is that the monitor sends lower and higher sync range to the display card. Rest of the spec changes have to do with hardware compliance for the timing of adjusting refresh rates. Support of changing refresh rate itself on a frame by frame basis has been there for a while in the display interfaces.
     
  25. Rifter

    Rifter Lifer

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    will this work on displayport or only DVI/HDMI?
     
  26. Shamrock

    Shamrock Senior member

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