FreeNAS Questions

[TigCobra]

So I am thinking about setting up a small instance of FreeNAS.

Was going to use a Intel Celeron G4900 Coffee Lake processor with some basic ram. This is a super low cost build, and will mainly be used as a file share for Plex Content. I was wondering if I am going to take a pretty big hit from using a low-end Dual Core processor for this?

 

[mxnerd]

https://www.freenas.org/hardware-requirements/

8GB minimum required. I have no personal experience, however.

I just don't get why everyone wants to setup a FreeNAS? Because it's hip / fancy?

The hefty requirement is just ridiculous.

Why not install Plex server and share a folder on a 4GB Windows box?

When something goes wrong, you can easily handle a Windows NTFS disk.

 

[thetuna]

FreeNAS works fine with less ram.
The ram requirements really only start to get crazy if you want to use zfs deduplication.
As long as you're not planning to run Plex on the server itself, it should be fine.

(Note; I only have experience with version 9. I don't know if they did anything crazy in the new version.)

 

[Anteaus]

https://www.freenas.org/hardware-requirements/

8GB minimum required. I have no personal experience, however.

I just don't get why everyone wants to setup a FreeNAS? Because it's hip / fancy?

The hefty requirement is just ridiculous.

Why not install Flex server and share a folder on a 4GB Windows box?

When something goes wrong, you can easily handle a Windows NTFS disk.

I think people are attracted to it because it's free and relatively turnkey. Windows licenses cost money and many of the fit for purpose linux distros are still a pita to setup for people who don't know linux.

If you aren't using RaidZ and instead mount drives as individual shares, FreeNAS can make a great simple PLEX server. 8GB and ECC are really only needed for Raid Z.

To the OP, your processor should be fine for simple file sharing or even direct stream Plex, but if you plan on transcoding your gonna have issues. In your case I'd personally go with something like OpenMediaVault or even Ubuntu/Debian if you know your way around a command line.

 

[mxnerd]

I think people are attracted to it because it's free and relatively turnkey. Windows licenses cost money and many of the fit for purpose linux distros are still a pita to setup for people who don't know linux.

If you aren't using RaidZ and instead mount drives as individual shares, FreeNAS can make a great simple PLEX server. 8GB and ECC are really only needed for Raid Z.

To the OP, your processor should be fine for simple file sharing or even direct stream Plex, but if you plan on transcoding your gonna have issues. In your case I'd personally go with something like OpenMediaVault or even Ubuntu/Debian if you know your way around a command line.

If he really wants to setup a NAS, I would recommend Synology/QNAP/Asustor solutions. Or OpenMediaVault and the likes.

OP already said he has a low power CPU and only basic RAM, and it's a super low cost build. So that definitely is not suitable for FreeNAS.

FreeNAS is really only suitable for corporate / enterprise or power users, not for home/inexperienced users.

The only free part of FreeNAS is the software itself. Not the hardware and the time you have to invested in.

Regarding Plex server, what's wrong to run it on Windows except Windows OS license?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Plex is running on linux server in sig. I use Ubuntu and mdadm to manage the data drives.

 

[mxnerd]

Plex is running on linux server in sig. I use Ubuntu and mdadm to manage the data drives.

Yeah. Forgot that. Linux + Kodi is also another alternative/

 

[TigCobra]

More or less looking to abstract my storage from my compute. I know I could go out and buy secondhand server gear, but the wife would probably kill me from the fan noise, etc.

Simply, want to run FreeNAS with some sort of RAID for redundancy, and curious if a low end CPU will handle streaming from Plex(Max 5 streams). Arguably I could go out and spend couple hundred dollars and buy a QNAP NAS system(empty) that will do the same thing, but I have spare parts laying around. Additionally, I could setup a Linux machine out of the box and configure it as a File Server, but then again :effort: if FreeNAS will do it sort of plug and play. I am not sure I want to invest a ton of time to turn up a pet project into full blown enterprise linux deployment

 

[mxnerd]

Why not just build and test it yourself?

It costs nothing if you already have the components.

I tested the installation in VMware Workstation and allocated 2GB memory for the FreeNAS VM and the installation was successful. Although the installer warned that you should have at least 8GB memory.

Checked the memory usage and 1GB was used on the VM after bootup. Didn't test anything else.

 

[TigCobra]

Well, that usually is the great part of a technical community... Someone normally has already done it and can offer advice, instead of me wasting time.

 

[mxnerd]

Not everyone has the same components as yours, and you always learn something with the process.

My opinion: if the build has enough memory, it should be OK for streaming. It won't be a problem if you don't use the build to transcode the videos.

But I might be wrong. My G3258 Pentium sucks at multitasking if not overclocked to 4.3G. And yours is a Celeron. One stream should be OK. Multistream could be a problem if not using SSD.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Well, that usually is the great part of a technical community... Someone normally has already done it and can offer advice, instead of me wasting time.

I have tried it. Don't use FreeNAS, and don't count on salvaged hardware to be reliable. You'll waste your time.

 

[mxnerd]

Well. @dave_the_nerd had said it and that's the verdict.

Now I remembered that if you are not using ECC memory, if some memory bits flipped, the whole ZFS system could get corrupted and there is no way to recover your data.

You could be very lucky and the non ECC memory bits never flip, but don't bet on it.

FreeNAS and ZFS file system should stay in corporate environment and reserved for power user.

 

[Anteaus]

Well. @dave_the_nerd had said it and that's the verdict.

Now I remembered that if you are not using ECC memory, if some memory bits flipped, the whole ZFS system could get corrupted and there is no way to recover your data.

You could be very lucky and the non ECC memory bits never flip, but don't bet on it.

FreeNAS and ZFS file system should stay in corporate environment and reserved for power user.

I agree. Avoid using RaidZ unless you use ECC. It's not that you can't, and you may never see a problem, but it does active correction in RAM unlike other solutions like MDRAID. It's very RAM intensive, moreso than MDRAID.

That said, it will still do single drive sharing (1drive Raid 0) or mirroring (Raid1). Remember that Plex can reference multiple volumes for media, so if you used 3 individual drives with no redundancy and spread things out, the user won't know that.

Much better to invest money into backup solutions than redundant drives that only buy up time. Pooling is not exclusive to RAID.

 

[gdansk]

ZFS and Raid Z are not any more dependent on ECC than other file system and RAID setup. I'm not sure why people always bring this up. RAID isn't a back up. If your data is so important that you worry about single bit errors in memory, then you better have a back up (or two). Even if you have ECC.

 

[Anteaus]

ZFS and Raid Z are not any more dependent on ECC than other file system and RAID setup. I'm not sure why people always bring this up. RAID isn't a back up. If your data is so important that you worry about single bit errors in memory, then you better have a back up (or two). Even if you have ECC.

It's the wrong argument. It's not about dependency, it's about best practices. Web servers aren't dependent on passwords or encryption, but that doesn't make it smart to run them without. I think the larger reason this topic even comes up is because Intel has screwed up things buy not allowing ECC on consumer hardware, which statistically is what most amateur homebuilt servers are running. Therefore, it's a tough sell to people like the OP who see this great piece of software to be told that their platform falls outside of best practices for usage. This is likely representative of most home users, and unfortunately it inspires people to justify non-ECC by making the non-dependency argument. In my experience, the only people who have ever made that argument are people who plan to repurpose old PCs and don't want to hear that they shouldn't.

If you are only running a small array I'd say that it's all moot, but once you step up to 6-8-10+ drive arrays with RaidZ2 which demand large amounts of memory, it becomes more important. This means that a huge amount of data will be staying in RAM far longer than other solutions, not to mention scrubbing which is very memory intense. RaidZ is normally used with large-very large arrays, which is why the best practices are what they are.

The bottom line, he doesn't need FreeNAS/ZFS to share some files or run Plex, but if he chose to use it he would likely have no problems. I agree with you in that context. That said, anyone who is building a fit for purpose server with plans to use ZFS would be remiss if they ignore best practices for the application.

Your backup advice is spot on tho. Two backups should always take priority over redundancy.

 

[gdansk]

It's the wrong argument. It's not about dependency, it's about best practices.

Most small Synology/QNAP NAS don't use ECC. If you have existing hardware, you're no worse off using free software & saving your cash than buying one of those devices recommended earlier in this thread. ZFS is still better than other common file systems on equal hardware.

I'd argue that the best practice, if you have a limited budget, is to spend that money on a backing up important data rather than investing more in new hardware that supports ECC. Even with ECC, you'll want that backup. Disk failures are more common than bit flips, impact much more data, and have a tendency to compound as data recovery takes place.

 

[mxnerd]

Everyone here who replied to OP knew that RAID is not backup.

I would rather have OP sell his components and use the proceed to fund the Synology/QNAP/Asustor NAS.

All of them have tons of APPs including Plex Server that can be run on the NAS.

 

[gdansk]

Everyone here who replied to OP knew that RAID is not backup.

I would rather have OP sell his components and use the proceed to fund the Synology/QNAP/Asustor NAS.

All of them have tons of APPs including Plex Server that can be run on the NAS.

I'm not seeing the advantage to paying more money to get yet another machine without ECC. Is it a transcoding monster of some sort?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I'm not seeing the advantage to paying more money to get yet another machine without ECC. Is it a transcoding monster of some sort?

You don't understand the advantage and convenience of a prepackaged NAS solution with a hardware warranty over DIY with used hardware (with more heat and energy use besides)?

Not to mention the aggressive lack of software support he'll get from the FreeNAS community the moment he runs into a problem.

 

[gdansk]

You don't understand the advantage and convenience of a prepackaged NAS solution with a hardware warranty over DIY with used hardware (with more heat and energy use besides)?

Not to mention the aggressive lack of software support he'll get from the FreeNAS community the moment he runs into a problem.

If it costs nothing, why wouldn't you try it? It works for many people. And it's no cost. If you find that it is doesn't work for you, or that it consumes too much power, then consider switching to a more specialized solution. Either way, I suppose it's a rather strange that I recommend using a 'DIY' NAS on a PC-enthusiast forum.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If it costs nothing, why wouldn't you try it? It works for many people. And it's no cost. If you find that it is doesn't work for you, or that it consumes too much power, then consider switching to a more specialized solution.

I did do all that. OP asked us to share experiences and lessons learned. I did.

Either way, I suppose it's a rather strange that I recommend using a 'DIY' NAS on a PC-enthusiast forum.

Given OP's relatively sparse posting history, I'd assume he's not a PC enthusiast, but is one of the relatively consumer-oriented folks who occasionally pop in for advice. Know your audience.

 

[TigCobra]

I did do all that. OP asked us to share experiences and lessons learned. I did.



Given OP's relatively sparse posting history, I'd assume he's not a PC enthusiast, but is one of the relatively consumer-oriented folks who occasionally pop in for advice. Know your audience.

Good to know that most people assume these days. I am an IT Professional...


Sadly, I think we have gone off topic. I understand the difference between RAID/Backup. My comments were purely based on performance. I do appreciate the Feedback on FreeNAS and other products. I do tend to use consumer grade equipment, but that is because I am cheap, that is the only reason. I know that enterprise grade equipment will always outshine and outperform consumer grade equipment. Additionally, I have been down the road of having a rack in my house with servers and disk shelves. Long story, my wife hates the noise.

At this point in time I will most likely do Server 2016 with Storage Pools, or Ubuntu with MDADM. I am going to use the 'file server' purely as file shares, all the compute will be done on another machine.

 

[aigomorla]

If your data is so important that you worry about single bit errors in memory, then you better have a back up (or two). Even if you have ECC.

Its cuz the people at Freenas avidly try to shoot you down for everything if your not running enterprise.
Not working properly, oh your not running xeons... not handling bandwidth? oh your nic cards arent intel.
Basically you want any tech support from people on freenas forums, you need to comply with hardware standards, or you get called a noob. :T

But ECC is only as good as the entire chain of data is from ECC.
Meaning if your glorified ECC machine is taking data from a laptop which doesnt have ECC, well, your under the mercy of the laptop ram not coughing up bad data, because that ECC wont save you from that.
So i half understand why ECC is needed, and at the same time dont understand why its pushed on others.

I would rather have OP sell his components and use the proceed to fund the Synology/QNAP/Asustor NAS.

There is nothing wrong with FreeNAS.
Yes its a bit overpowered for most NAS purpose, however its reliable.
Its also free, is updated frequently, and never requires you to buy any subscription or services.
unRAID is also great, but you need to pay for it.



OP to answer a few of your questions from someone who has FreeNAS and is running PLEX.

There are also Jails for FreeNAS 11, which support SABNzbd, virtual machines and even Plex.

Here is the config of my FreeNAS Server:

System Information
Hostname AKIHIME.local
Build FreeNAS-11.1-U5
Platform Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU L5640 @ 2.27GHz
Memory 98257MB
System Time Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:58:52 -0800
Uptime 9:58AM up 33 days, 19:59, 0 users
Load Average 0.07, 0.07, 0.06

This is on a Supermicro X8DAi board in a 16 drive hotswap supermicro 3U rack chasis.
(yes its old hardware, but for what it does, its great, and DDR3 ECC Ram is CHEAP.

Freenas is very light on processor, very heavy on RAM like most DB are.

I was taught and told to run at least 1GB / 1TB of ECC ram per data on RAID-Z2

I am running 12 x HGST He8's in Raid-Z2 with 2 drives as spare.
This would allow for 2 drives to fail before i hit catastrophic data loss on that server.

I am also running as Jails on the same server
Tranmission
SABnzbd
PlexMediaCenter

It is connected to a 10GB Switch over a SFP+ DAC cable.
I am using this switch.. its great and i recommend it, if you want a 10GBe connection.
https://www.amazon.com/QNAP-QSW-120...TF8&qid=1542652536&sr=8-4&keywords=10g+switch

My data transfer speeds across network is at around 400-650 mb/s on 10GBe on RAID-Z2.

What i like about it:
I love that the basic stuff on it is really basic and easy to use if you have some brain.
You don't need foundation in FreeBSD yet, because the GUI is really easy to navigate though.
I love how its your hardware.
If something breaks, you can service it, and not have to send it anywhere.
You can even take the drive/disk FreeNAS is installed in, plug it into a new machine, and then import your disks onto that machine. In Sort, its your PC, no one will tell you how long something will take to repair, except you on when you get your RMA parts back, if your parts are on warrenty.

What i dont like about it:
It draws more wattage then a Synology for sure... its enterprise board + enterprise Reg ECC Ram + even server fans..... vtec on them fans....
Its Loud as hell because its in a Supermicro 3U case.
Its Heavy as hell, if my house caught on fire, GG, there is no grab and run when you look at server racks, unless it is a synology unit that happens to sit ontop of a server and smiles at you.

As for how it handles streams.
Well i have no issues if the stream is 1080p even with those low wattage Xeons.
If you wanted something to compliment your 4k library...
Well, then i would definitely build a dedicated plex server with a dedicated GPU to help you handle 4k streams, because i certainly cant get my machine to work, even with replacing those low wattage Xeons, to 3.73ghz flagship ones.

Meaning, you will need some beefy hardware if you want to stream 4k files converted and not a direct passthough.

So a dual core? maybe a little under powered, as it will have to run freenas, and then run the jail, and then expect plex to transcribe.... A quadcore would however definitely be able to handle that and then some.
You can pick up some pretty cheap E3's super micro systems, and gut the internals to build it that way as well.

 

[mxnerd]

OK. So Server 2016's price tag ($370 on Amazon & Newegg for Essentials Edition) is defined as super cheap.

With that price tag, OP can buy Synology 4 Bay NAS DiskStation DS418 with transcoding and 2 Gigabit ports.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108681.

Anyway, it's OP's choice.