Freedom of Speech - Unless you don't agree with me

[lo5750ul]

The defacing of the web site http://english.aljazeera.net/ with an American flag, and a pro American slogan declaring "Let Freedom Ring" prompted me to ask; is the hacker saying everyone should have freedom of speech, unless of course you do not obey or suppoort America?

 

[notfred]

It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Their site appears to be down.

 

[lo5750ul]

The sequence of events were:

Monday - Site goes live
Tuesday - Site under DOS attack
Thursday - Site hacked to point to alternate web source
Thursday - Site taken offline

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: notfred
It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

Although, to be fair, that attitude has been a constant source of tension between the assimilated/recently immigrated for a good part of the country's history. The Internet just lets us hear it a lot more often.

 

[rudeguy]

I really dont feel bad that they got hacked, that being said I think everyone is entitled to express their opinion and dont think that they should have been hacked...I kind of like hearing what they have to say, I agree with none of it, but it is nice to know the opponents point of view

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: rudeguy5757
I really dont feel bad that they got hacked, that being said I think everyone is entitled to express their opinion and dont think that they should have been hacked...I kind of like hearing what they have to say, I agree with none of it, but it is nice to know the opponents point of view

Actually, the times I was able to get through to the site, I found it an interesting take on the other point of view.

The hackers appear to be immature, intolerant people who are only giving the rest of the world a worse opinion of Americans than they already have.

 

[Amused]

While what the hackers did was illegal and immoral, I must make something clear...

Freedom of speech means freedom from legal consequence. It does not mean freedom from social consequence.

Thought I'd just make that clear in light of the whining Babs did at the Oscars a few nights ago.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: notfred
It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

not the same.

it is one thing to support freedom of speech, it is another to support free acceptance of anyone in the US. immigration laws are not a constitutional issue. if we find anyone in the US from another country engaging in espionage, we can send them back to the country of origin right?? so obviously this is an extreme example. so where do you draw the line. why should someone who hates america and everything it stands for and is always spouting poison but just living here for the education or the economic opportunity or for political reasons, be allowed to stay?? why should the benefit from all those things they hate soo much?

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: notfred
It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

not the same.

it is one thing to support freedom of speech, it is another to support free acceptance of anyone in the US. immigration laws are not a constitutional issue. if we find anyone in the US from another country engaging in espionage, we can send them back to the country of origin right?? so obviously this is an extreme example. so where do you draw the line. why should someone who hates america and everything it stands for and is always spouting poison but just living here for the education or the economic opportunity or for political reasons, be allowed to stay?? why should the benefit from all those things they hate soo much?

Actually, most of the immigrants I know are more than happy with the way the U.S. is, most of the whining I hear comes from those that were born here.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: notfred
It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

not the same.

it is one thing to support freedom of speech, it is another to support free acceptance of anyone in the US. immigration laws are not a constitutional issue. if we find anyone in the US from another country engaging in espionage, we can send them back to the country of origin right?? so obviously this is an extreme example. so where do you draw the line. why should someone who hates america and everything it stands for and is always spouting poison but just living here for the education or the economic opportunity or for political reasons, be allowed to stay?? why should the benefit from all those things they hate soo much?

What does my statement have to do with immigration? People are saying "get the hell out" to natural born US citizens jsut because they have differing opinions.

Hypothetical example:
Person 1: I don't think private citizens should be allowed to own guns. Many European natinos don't allow them and they have less crime than us.
Person 2: Here in the USA, we have this little thing called "right to bear arms". If you want to be like those socialist european nations, feel free to move there. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: notfred
It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

not the same.

it is one thing to support freedom of speech, it is another to support free acceptance of anyone in the US. immigration laws are not a constitutional issue. if we find anyone in the US from another country engaging in espionage, we can send them back to the country of origin right?? so obviously this is an extreme example. so where do you draw the line. why should someone who hates america and everything it stands for and is always spouting poison but just living here for the education or the economic opportunity or for political reasons, be allowed to stay?? why should the benefit from all those things they hate soo much?

What does my statement have to do with immigration? People are saying "get the hell out" to natural born US citizens jsut because they have differing opinions.

Hypothetical example:
Person 1: I don't think private citizens should be allowed to own guns. Many European natinos don't allow them and they have less crime than us.
Person 2: Here in the USA, we have this little thing called "right to bear arms". If you want to be like those socialist european nations, feel free to move there. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

i agree that person 2 made a ludicrous statement but they still have the freedom to do so.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: lo5750ul
The defacing of the web site http://english.aljazeera.net/ with an American flag, and a pro American slogan declaring "Let Freedom Ring" prompted me to ask; is the hacker saying everyone should have freedom of speech, unless of course you do not obey or suppoort America?

I tend to think it's more someone saying "I hate al-Jazeera" than anything else.

 

[3L33T32003]

Thought I'd just make that clear in light of the whining Babs did at the Oscars a few nights ago.

I did not see that. What did she say, exactly?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: notfred
It seems to be the new American way. Kinda like the "If you don't think the USA is perfect, get the hell out" attitude.

not the same.

it is one thing to support freedom of speech, it is another to support free acceptance of anyone in the US. immigration laws are not a constitutional issue. if we find anyone in the US from another country engaging in espionage, we can send them back to the country of origin right?? so obviously this is an extreme example. so where do you draw the line. why should someone who hates america and everything it stands for and is always spouting poison but just living here for the education or the economic opportunity or for political reasons, be allowed to stay?? why should the benefit from all those things they hate soo much?

What does my statement have to do with immigration? People are saying "get the hell out" to natural born US citizens jsut because they have differing opinions.

Hypothetical example:
Person 1: I don't think private citizens should be allowed to own guns. Many European natinos don't allow them and they have less crime than us.
Person 2: Here in the USA, we have this little thing called "right to bear arms". If you want to be like those socialist european nations, feel free to move there. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Notfred,

As I said in my previous post, "freedom of speech" pertains to LEGAL freedoms only. It does not protect you from being socially outcast, nor should it. I should not be forced to listen to, or agree with what you say and vice versa.

Person two is merely expressing their opinion. You don't like that opinion, therefore you don't think they should express it in the way they did. How are you any different than they?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3L33T32003

Thought I'd just make that clear in light of the whining Babs did at the Oscars a few nights ago.

I did not see that. What did she say, exactly?

She whined about the freedom of speech, and that even actors are allowed this freedom. It's been a common whine among the Hollywood folks since the social and commercial backlash began over many of them expressing their boneheaded opinions.

I don't have it word for word, but I'm sure you can dig it up in a web search

 

[StageLeft]

Look everyone is entitled to my opinion. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Look everyone is entitled to my opinion. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Amused
Notfred,

As I said in my previous post, "freedom of speech" pertains to LEGAL freedoms only. It does not protect you from being socially outcast, nor should it. I should not be forced to listen to, or agree with what you say and vice versa.

Person two is merely expressing their opinion. You don't like that opinion, therefore you don't think they should express it in the way they did. How are you any different than they?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to express thier viewpoint, I'm simply saying that it's a viewpoint that really doesn't fit with the American Constitution, similar to "everyone should have freedom of speech, unless of course you do not obey or suppoort America" from the original post.

 

[lo5750ul]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Look everyone is entitled to my opinion. I see nothing wrong with that.

Nope, you are wrong, get out.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Amused
Notfred,

As I said in my previous post, "freedom of speech" pertains to LEGAL freedoms only. It does not protect you from being socially outcast, nor should it. I should not be forced to listen to, or agree with what you say and vice versa.

Person two is merely expressing their opinion. You don't like that opinion, therefore you don't think they should express it in the way they did. How are you any different than they?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to express thier viewpoint, I'm simply saying that it's a viewpoint that really doesn't fit with the American Constitution, similar to "everyone should have freedom of speech, unless of course you do not obey or suppoort America" from the original post.

The viewpoint of Person One that private citizens should not be able to own firearms does not fit with the Constitution either.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Amused
Notfred,

As I said in my previous post, "freedom of speech" pertains to LEGAL freedoms only. It does not protect you from being socially outcast, nor should it. I should not be forced to listen to, or agree with what you say and vice versa.

Person two is merely expressing their opinion. You don't like that opinion, therefore you don't think they should express it in the way they did. How are you any different than they?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to express thier viewpoint, I'm simply saying that it's a viewpoint that really doesn't fit with the American Constitution, similar to "everyone should have freedom of speech, unless of course you do not obey or suppoort America" from the original post.

hmm. did you misread amused's post or did i??

it DOES fit in with the american constitution. the consitution protects you from LEGAL repurcussions from Freedom of speech NOT SOCIAL ones.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

it DOES fit in with the american constitution. the consitution protects you from LEGAL repurcussions from Freedom of speech NOT SOCIAL ones.

Let's just say I'm not down with the vision of America as a place that denigrates opposing viewpoints as a matter of recourse. "I disagree with you because..." is a very different thing from "You're a dumbass and should be deported." Unfortunately, you can't legislate the level of dialogue.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

it DOES fit in with the american constitution. the consitution protects you from LEGAL repurcussions from Freedom of speech NOT SOCIAL ones.

Let's just say I'm not down with the vision of America as a place that denigrates opposing viewpoints as a matter of recourse. "I disagree with you because..." is a very different thing from "You're a dumbass and should be deported." Unfortunately, you can't legislate the level of dialogue.

legislating that level of dialogue WOULD be against the constitution.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Amused
Notfred,

As I said in my previous post, "freedom of speech" pertains to LEGAL freedoms only. It does not protect you from being socially outcast, nor should it. I should not be forced to listen to, or agree with what you say and vice versa.

Person two is merely expressing their opinion. You don't like that opinion, therefore you don't think they should express it in the way they did. How are you any different than they?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to express thier viewpoint, I'm simply saying that it's a viewpoint that really doesn't fit with the American Constitution, similar to "everyone should have freedom of speech, unless of course you do not obey or suppoort America" from the original post.

hmm. did you misread amused's post or did i??

it DOES fit in with the american constitution. the consitution protects you from LEGAL repurcussions from Freedom of speech NOT SOCIAL ones.

Nope, he misread it. Again, asking or telling someone to leave the country because you believe their views are anathema to our Constitution is NOT a violation of the freedom of speech. Passing laws and shipping them out WOULD be a violation. Can you see the difference?