"only a small percentage of athletes are also vegetarians...given that, one would EXPECT the list of vegetarian and vegan athletes to be smaller than the list of omnivores."
More fauly logic. No, I would expect athletes to do what it takes to win. For many, huge egos and millions of dollars are at stake. If dropping meat from their diet would increase their chances to win in ANY sport, of course they would do it. You could not stop 99% of them from taking advantage of such a simple, easy, and obvious competitive edge. You are right, however, that the cut and paste of a few athletes from PETA or "anemia today" magazine will not change any minds. Common sense born from observation and interpretation of such cannot be so easily changed.
IshmaelLeaver - you happy now?
Justincase - as per your link, there is a "Sesquipedalian" that posts at that place where wallets are fat, and, come to think of it, we never have been seen posting at the same time...
More fauly logic. No, I would expect athletes to do what it takes to win. For many, huge egos and millions of dollars are at stake. If dropping meat from their diet would increase their chances to win in ANY sport, of course they would do it. You could not stop 99% of them from taking advantage of such a simple, easy, and obvious competitive edge. You are right, however, that the cut and paste of a few athletes from PETA or "anemia today" magazine will not change any minds. Common sense born from observation and interpretation of such cannot be so easily changed.
IshmaelLeaver - you happy now?
Justincase - as per your link, there is a "Sesquipedalian" that posts at that place where wallets are fat, and, come to think of it, we never have been seen posting at the same time...
>>>"only a small percentage of athletes are also vegetarians...given that, one would EXPECT the list of vegetarian and vegan athletes to be smaller than the list of omnivores."
More fauly logic. No, I would expect athletes to do what it takes to win. For many, huge egos and millions of dollars are at stake. If dropping meat from their diet would increase their chances to win in ANY sport, of course they would do it<<<
And naturally, in the *REAL WORLD*, people ALWAYS do WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM, and ALL ATHLETES *ALWAYS* DO EVERYTHING they possibly can to have that competitive edge...I know this will stir the pot some more, but in fact *most* athletes don't have a clue when it comes to nutrition...I'll grant you that they may *think* they do...but somebody had better tell them that McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's are not health-food restaurants.
>>>You could not stop 99% of them from taking advantage of such a simple, easy, and obvious competitive edge.<<
Of course, this ignores the fact that there ARE competitive athletes that DO have an edge being vegetarians and vegans. Maybe not in your circle of friends though.
>>>You are right, however, that the cut and paste of a few athletes from PETA or "anemia today" magazine will not change any minds.<<<
Huh? I don't read anything from PETA, and as I already stated, I don't read any magazines.
Oh, and this "anemia' myth is getting real old...yes, there are some unhealthy vegetarians just as there are unhealthy meat-eaters; both can look emaciated. But there are certainly extremely healthy vegetarians as well. Case in point.
>>>Justincase - as per your link, there is a "Sesquipedalian" that posts at that place where wallets are fat, and, come to think of it, we never have been seen posting at the same time.<<<
k. Just always wondered where the name came from...I'm pretty sure it's some type of omnivore :Q
More fauly logic. No, I would expect athletes to do what it takes to win. For many, huge egos and millions of dollars are at stake. If dropping meat from their diet would increase their chances to win in ANY sport, of course they would do it<<<
And naturally, in the *REAL WORLD*, people ALWAYS do WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM, and ALL ATHLETES *ALWAYS* DO EVERYTHING they possibly can to have that competitive edge...I know this will stir the pot some more, but in fact *most* athletes don't have a clue when it comes to nutrition...I'll grant you that they may *think* they do...but somebody had better tell them that McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's are not health-food restaurants.
>>>You could not stop 99% of them from taking advantage of such a simple, easy, and obvious competitive edge.<<
Of course, this ignores the fact that there ARE competitive athletes that DO have an edge being vegetarians and vegans. Maybe not in your circle of friends though.
>>>You are right, however, that the cut and paste of a few athletes from PETA or "anemia today" magazine will not change any minds.<<<
Huh? I don't read anything from PETA, and as I already stated, I don't read any magazines.
Oh, and this "anemia' myth is getting real old...yes, there are some unhealthy vegetarians just as there are unhealthy meat-eaters; both can look emaciated. But there are certainly extremely healthy vegetarians as well. Case in point.
>>>Justincase - as per your link, there is a "Sesquipedalian" that posts at that place where wallets are fat, and, come to think of it, we never have been seen posting at the same time.<<<
k. Just always wondered where the name came from...I'm pretty sure it's some type of omnivore :Q
"but in fact most athletes don't have a clue when it comes to nutrition...I'll grant you that they may *think* they do."
Funny you say this after posting all the names of vegetarian athletes! Here we can agree. I was thinking the same thing looking at the list of athletes you posted.
Patiently waiting for that long list of Salt Lake City 2002 Olympics vegetarian gold, silver, or bronze metal winners! LOL! That would be one SHORT list.
Funny you say this after posting all the names of vegetarian athletes! Here we can agree. I was thinking the same thing looking at the list of athletes you posted.
Patiently waiting for that long list of Salt Lake City 2002 Olympics vegetarian gold, silver, or bronze metal winners! LOL! That would be one SHORT list.
I switched to a raw vegetarian diet, for health reasons. It has dramatically improved my health.. More energy, need less sleep, get sick less. Its the best hot deal I have ever invested in.
Favorite vegetarian site
Favorite vegetarian site
<<
Evolution isn't a fact, it's just a theory
All of science is theory. Did you ever consider that? Wow!!! Since pretty much everything is non-factual, it's time to deny most of what you know.
Evolution never happens; everything just "magically appeared". That sure sounds a lot more believable.
>>
No... not all of science is theory - the majority isn't. A theory is an interpretation based on available facts. A fact is something that can be proven.
For example, in a near vacum (sp??) on earth at sea level, an object will fall approximately 9.8 meters per second. All the time, every time, given
the conditions are true. And if you consider evolution, according to it everything DID magically appear... life came from the random composition of
chemicals, which out of pure chance happened to from protiens, which just happened to form DNA and so on until we have animals, plants, etc.
<<
Err... Evolution theory *is* factual. Yu''ve missed the entire philosophy of veganism: purity and wholesome foods. Now, I'm sure we can continue to eat meat if the major meat producers actually cleaned up their acts and do it responsibly.
Capitalism works real great in class, it's another story in the jungle. It matters that economic systems be ethical, market-based or not.
And thank you, don't we all... >>
A theory is not a fact, and that's why it's called a theory; otherwise, it would be called the Law of Evolution... and it's not. And no, I'm not arguing for
creationism, either. Ignoring evolution, etc. - I'm still not getting veganism philosophy: I'm at least receptive to it, becuase it doesn't sound like a
terribly bad idea. So now, I'm less pure for eating meat? What's purity exactly... How exactly is meat not wholesome? And can you guarantee
that one wouldn't find just as many problems with plants and fruits? Now, about capitalism - I forget what I arguing.
>>>Justincase-Kraft was spun off by Philip Morris a while ago because the tobacco company was keeping the food division's stock price down.
So technically they're their own company now! woohoo!<<<
Just got a response from Boca marketing at marketingboca@bocaburger.net...Big Tobacco gets bigger
"Thank you for taking the time to contact us. You inquired about Boca Foods'
affiliation with Philip Morris and I'm pleased to have the opportunity to
share some information with you.
Boca Foods is now a division of Kraft Foods, which produces more than 70
well known brands including Maxwell House Coffee, Post Cereal, and DiGiorno
Pasta, Sauces and Pizza. Kraft is the North American Food business of Philip
Morris Companies, Inc.
We believe that due to the tremendous growth and popularity of meat
alternative products, Boca Foods will benefit greatly from the opportunities
provided by Kraft Foods. Under Kraft management, Boca Foods will be able to
continue to grow through expanded retail distribution and new product
offerings.
We hope this addresses your question. If you have further questions about
our products, please visit our Web site at www.bocaburger.com
So technically they're their own company now! woohoo!<<<
Just got a response from Boca marketing at marketingboca@bocaburger.net...Big Tobacco gets bigger
"Thank you for taking the time to contact us. You inquired about Boca Foods'
affiliation with Philip Morris and I'm pleased to have the opportunity to
share some information with you.
Boca Foods is now a division of Kraft Foods, which produces more than 70
well known brands including Maxwell House Coffee, Post Cereal, and DiGiorno
Pasta, Sauces and Pizza. Kraft is the North American Food business of Philip
Morris Companies, Inc.
We believe that due to the tremendous growth and popularity of meat
alternative products, Boca Foods will benefit greatly from the opportunities
provided by Kraft Foods. Under Kraft management, Boca Foods will be able to
continue to grow through expanded retail distribution and new product
offerings.
We hope this addresses your question. If you have further questions about
our products, please visit our Web site at www.bocaburger.com
<< "...Gary Null, America's Foremost Health & Nutrition Advocate. Picture and partial background info..."
From his picture, the guy looks like he has one foot in the grave... can we say gaunt?
>>Looks like he's got the same plastic surgeon as Joan Rivers too!
IClight
>>><< "...Gary Null, America's Foremost Health & Nutrition Advocate. Picture and partial background info..."
From his picture, the guy looks like he has one foot in the grave... can we say gaunt? >>
Looks like he's got the same plastic surgeon as Joan Rivers too!<<<
Always some wiseasses around.
It's not the best picture (it should be *obvious* to anyone with a functional brain cell that the lighting is exceptionally poor).
I have met him in person several times, and have been listening to him for 23+ years; he most certainly has not had plastic surgery.
I doubt that there is a healthier person in the country.
From his picture, the guy looks like he has one foot in the grave... can we say gaunt?
>>Looks like he's got the same plastic surgeon as Joan Rivers too!<<<
Always some wiseasses around.
It's not the best picture (it should be *obvious* to anyone with a functional brain cell that the lighting is exceptionally poor).
I have met him in person several times, and have been listening to him for 23+ years; he most certainly has not had plastic surgery.
I doubt that there is a healthier person in the country.
justincase
man, you got issues..
aren't vegetable also a living thing, it's just that they are easier to catch. you don't have to sneak up to a carrot.
what exactly is healthier? how to define that?
so i say just eat whatever the hell you want and have a happy life!
man, you got issues..
aren't vegetable also a living thing, it's just that they are easier to catch. you don't have to sneak up to a carrot.
what exactly is healthier? how to define that?
so i say just eat whatever the hell you want and have a happy life!
<< aren't vegetable also a living thing, it's just that they are easier to catch. you don't have to sneak up to a carrot. >>
A carrot also doesn't register pain when you pull it out of the ground or bite into it.
I mulled over this some time ago - I noticed that vegetables are still "alive" for a long time after being picked (try planting a potato) and only "dead" once they're all moldy and inedible.
So with veggies, you're eating them while they're still alive.
Meat has to be very dead before consumption - unless you're a real sicko and gnaw on living, screaming mammals and rodents.
<< what exactly is healthier? how to define that? >>
One could describe "healthy" as your capacity for life. Can you walk up ten flights of stairs without blowing a capillary? Can you go for a bike ride without getting dizzy? Can you run from one location to another (more than 100 feet!) without collapsing into a wheezing heap? Has your gut grown so large you can't see your feet? Healthy is just plain common sense. Not so common these days, I've noticed. I guess parents stopped teaching that when they plopped their kids in front of the TV to raise them.
<< so i say just eat whatever the hell you want and have a happy life! >>
Yep. That's the common selfish attitude VERY prevalent today. Most people would agree with you.
"If it feels good, do it." "Look out for number one." We've heard them all.
Selfishness. Putting yourself above anything else.
Remember, the issue here isn't just the fact that too much meat is unhealthy, but also the fact that meat industries treat these animals with utter cruelty. These animals live a short life that must seem an eternity when in misery and/or torture. Would YOU like growing up locked in a pen only barely larger than yourself - with no ability to move or keep clean, you'd be covered with filth and disease. Rather than being taken care of, you're fed antibiotics to keep from dying from infection, and sprayed with harsh chemicals. Because your muscles would be weak from inactivity, you're fed growth hormones to grow muscle tissue at an alarming rate, but it's still weak. When you're "ready" you'll be beaten and scourged to "encourage" you to get from your pen to the truck even though you don't have the strength to walk. You then get to ride a truck with no food or water under blazing sun or freezing winter for many hours, perhaps even a full day. When you arrive to the slaughterhouse, you're begging for mercy - "just let me die..." Nope. Not on the agenda... you have to stay fresh as long as possible - so you're hung upside down by one foot on a conveyor system. An uneducated minimum-wage lackey has the stunner - if you're lucky he'll actually zap you so you're mostly unconcious, if not, you get to experience being butchered alive and fully concious. Your throat is slit first and you mostly bleed to death, but your heart is still beating as you're actually being butchered.
You arrive at the store "fresh".
Welcome to the commercial meat industry.
And that's not even touching the envoronmental destruction they're causing.
I refuse to eat meat primarily to NOT support those scum. That my health has improved from it is a bonus.
<< A carrot also doesn't register pain when you pull it out of the ground or bite into it. >>
So if a living thing doesn't feel the pain, it makes it okay to eat it alive? let alone no one knows if a carrot can feel the pain or not..
and since when is living a happy life a selfish thing? you care, that is a good thing, but simply stop eating meat doesn't necessarily mean anything. after all, you do feel "healthier", so you do that for your own benefits also. Millions of people suffer a worse life than those animals, countless children die everyday of starvation, what have you done for them?
<< So if a living thing doesn't feel the pain, it makes it okay to eat it alive? let alone no one knows if a carrot can feel the pain or not.. >>
Do I even need to bother with this one?
<< and since when is living a happy life a selfish thing? >>
It isn't, necessarily. However, living happily at the expense of others and exploiting cruelty is by very definition of the word, selfish. Plain and simple.
<< you care, that is a good thing, but simply stop eating meat doesn't necessarily mean anything. after all, you do feel "healthier", so you do that for your own benefits also. >>
Trying to make me seem "selfish" that because I benefit from not eating meat is another silly argument with no merit. You can benefit more in the long run by doing a lot of things, most prefer instant gratification which usually has longer-lasting ill effects. I suggest you read a little history. It won't be hard to find the repeating pattern: selfish greed = destruction.
<< Millions of people suffer a worse life than those animals, countless children die everyday of starvation, what have you done for them? >>
Rarely have I heard of humans locked in tiny chambers since birth and forced to endure what those animals go through. While much of the world does indeed starve, they aren't under the physical cruely of others at the same time. Which would be worse? Force-fed while you're chained prostrate to the floor, or slowly dying from starvation.... tough call.
Of course, most of those people are starving because their corrupt governments hog the money and resources for themselves. What did I say about that repeating pattern?
Secondly, I do try to do my part and am preparing to do more. Our church is responsible for going to these troubled third-world nations and do things like teach them (and supply the resources) to drill wells for water, plant crops, support communities, education, health, disaster relief (natural or war) and much, much more. Not only do I support this financially, I support by giving my time (yes, more than on church services.) I also volunteer to keep kids off the street and help them live better lives by helping out at a boys&girls Christian club. We've got kids from 6 to 16 there, all from different walks of life.
I hate the cruelty that goes on in this world, and how is gets passed off as an everyday thing.
After all, those animals need to die for your yummy, fattening burger. You just plain ignore the facts in front of your face- the lifetime of suffering the big meat industries put on those animals to provide your burger patties.
Anything for a quick, cheap buck.
<< << So if a living thing doesn't feel the pain, it makes it okay to eat it alive? let alone no one knows if a carrot can feel the pain or not.. >> >>
<< Do I even need to bother with this one? >>
Why not?
<< Anything for a quick, cheap buck. >>
I bet you hate IT also, after all, they are making money faster and cheaper than you can possibly imagine.
anyway, eating meat or not is pure personal choice, well, i guess you are what you eat, so if you want to be a good human being??
ops, just checked, CANADA.. whatever
>>>"...Gary Null, America's Foremost Health & Nutrition Advocate. Picture and partial background info..."
From his picture, the guy looks like he has one foot in the grave... can we say gaunt?<<<
Absurd...
Same 59-year-old vegan, better picture
From his picture, the guy looks like he has one foot in the grave... can we say gaunt?
<<<Absurd...
Same 59-year-old vegan, better picture
<<
<<
Err... Evolution theory *is* factual. Yu''ve missed the entire philosophy of veganism: purity and wholesome foods. Now, I'm sure we can continue to eat meat if the major meat producers actually cleaned up their acts and do it responsibly.
Capitalism works real great in class, it's another story in the jungle. It matters that economic systems be ethical, market-based or not.
And thank you, don't we all... >>
A theory is not a fact, and that's why it's called a theory; otherwise, it would be called the Law of Evolution... and it's not. And no, I'm not arguing for
creationism, either. Ignoring evolution, etc. - I'm still not getting veganism philosophy: I'm at least receptive to it, becuase it doesn't sound like a
terribly bad idea. So now, I'm less pure for eating meat? What's purity exactly... How exactly is meat not wholesome? And can you guarantee
that one wouldn't find just as many problems with plants and fruits? Now, about capitalism - I forget what I arguing.
>>WOOT! I found this thread at last.. not to respond to it.. But after seeing it again.... I m amused you still consider Evolution theory as non-de facto.
Well then, I might as well consider you a figment of my imagination. I'm not going to sit here and spout the facts off, you'll find them on google. What I could do is drag your ass into the Bengali jungle, drop you right into a middle of a Bengal pack, and we'll see how fast the facts become apparent to you. Heehee ABout the questions:
How? That's up to you to be aware of what will be healthy for you, not the programming out there deciding it for you.
Purity? No chemicals, no tinkering with genetic engineering, no antibiotics.
Wholesome? Well, it depends on where it comes from. I would say the meat you eat has all the non-purity qualities. Vegetables, legumes, grains, and fruits should be the main diet ~ while red meat, poulty, seafood, fish, and eggs are moderate compliments. Wholesomeness is the process of weening the person off almost all meats, and the processs of eating wholistically. You'll understand and know the process when you feel it working for you.
Guarantee? I can, but it'll be very expensive for your grocery bills.
Capitalism = its going suck every dollar out of every involuntary sucker while it dying a horrible death. IE: ENRON
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