Free Trade ... Good or Bad?

[amok]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
If something is exchanged for something else, energy is expended. There is no such thing as a free lunch, so there's no such thing as free trade.

The way to go is to create universities that study human life with an aim to make it better. This would require a massive investigatiion in to the meaning of better. If things are to be created we can create one for everyone. Why make things that only a few can have. That's not better. That leads to division and envy. Everybody gets one of the best things to make life richand everybody does their best to meet that end. That way everybody works for ourselves and knows real pleasure. No hating the other guy because he unknowingly reminds you, you hate yourself for being selfish.

Moon, can I get you something? I ask because I'm sincerely concerned, and I think you may have finally lost it.

Not everyone *wants* one of everything. Some people want TWO of some things and NONE of others! Some people just want the simple life; some people want extravagance. The world is a *diverse* place with more tastes, more opinions, more wants, more desires and more needs than any person, any university, any study could ever possibly quantify and articulate in a meaningful fashion. In short, creating an economy as you describe, which is centrally managed and decided upon, won't work. It's been tried over and over again (Communism, Socialism, Fascism) and has ended in blood every time.

Don't try to decide what other people have or don't have; let THEM decide. Let THEM earn their money and choose what they want to spend it on.

Liberty, it doesn't get an simpler than that.

Jason

This part I agree with you on . However...

I'd argue in favor of free trade (bet you didn't see that coming, did you? but I'm not sure what kinds of regulations to put in place. On the one hand, using China as an example, I don't want to help out a Communist Dictatorship. On the other hand, doing so *might* plant the seeds for that regime's fall through a non or minimally violent revolution, which would be good. I'm not sure I TRUST the politicians to put "fair and appropriate" regulations in place; these are people who, regardless of party or proclaimed ideology, can't seem to stop themselves from spending FAR in excess of their revenue.

How does free trade and regulation even belong in the same sentence? IMO, its the half-assed attempt at it, a combination of free trade, regulations, and government subsidies, that has hindered the success of free trade. Either we should do it, or we shouldn't. IMO, the limbo state of in-between that we are currently embroiled in is worse than going one way or the other.

 

[Corn]

Moon, can I get you something? I ask because I'm sincerely concerned, and I think you may have finally lost it.

He hasn't "lost it". Well, not recently, "it's" been missing for quite a while now. You see, in order for Moonie's utopian paradise to come to pass, we must all quit being mentally ill. This feat is easily accomplished by a lobotomy. I vote Moonie go first.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Corn

Moon, can I get you something? I ask because I'm sincerely concerned, and I think you may have finally lost it.

He hasn't "lost it". Well, not recently, "it's" been missing for quite a while now. You see, in order for Moonie's utopian paradise to come to pass, we must all quit being mentally ill. This feat is easily accomplished by a lobotomy. I vote Moonie go first.

"You limit the scope you limit the findings.." LunarRay

On entering the kings garden an ignorant Bedouin asked, Ehat is this place. There are wo things in life, I've been taught, he thought to himself, dates and experience. I know what dates are so this muct be experience. And Corn, you cannot quit being mentally ill because the quitter is the disease. You can't see your own eye. That's why I give you a mirror. You worry about lobotomy because it's already happened. You are cut off form yourself. That Is how I can help you, because what you see in me is yourself.

 

[Moonbeam]

Moon, can I get you something? I ask because I'm sincerely concerned, and I think you may have finally lost it.

Not everyone *wants* one of everything. Some people want TWO of some things and NONE of others! Some people just want the simple life; some people want extravagance. The world is a *diverse* place with more tastes, more opinions, more wants, more desires and more needs than any person, any university, any study could ever possibly quantify and articulate in a meaningful fashion. In short, creating an economy as you describe, which is centrally managed and decided upon, won't work. It's been tried over and over again (Communism, Socialism, Fascism) and has ended in blood every time.

Don't try to decide what other people have or don't have; let THEM decide. Let THEM earn their money and choose what they want to spend it on.

Liberty, it doesn't get an simpler than that.
Now Dragon, think back on Iraq and the government we need there. Isn't it the same thing here? Shouldn't somebody like me who sees so much more really force the right government on the world? I assure you, I know what is natural for man, and whole lots of people will kick at first, eventually, with new generations and education, everybody will come to be happy. This is a much better way. Surely you can see that. Are you going to let people go on killing each other over competitive greed and need? That's not good for the inner true real man. Right?

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

How does free trade and regulation even belong in the same sentence? IMO, its the half-assed attempt at it, a combination of free trade, regulations, and government subsidies, that has hindered the success of free trade. Either we should do it, or we shouldn't. IMO, the limbo state of in-between that we are currently embroiled in is worse than going one way or the other.

I agree, I was just trying my hand at compromise, hehe

Now Dragon, think back on Iraq and the government we need there. Isn't it the same thing here? Shouldn't somebody like me who sees so much more really force the right government on the world? I assure you, I know what is natural for man, and whole lots of people will kick at first, eventually, with new generations and education, everybody will come to be happy. This is a much better way. Surely you can see that. Are you going to let people go on killing each other over competitive greed and need? That's not good for the inner true real man. Right?

What in the world are you talking about? No one should Force people to one thing or another. What I have always advocated is *restraining* people from using force against others who disagree.

Freedom to disagree peacefully might just be the most precious freedom we enjoy

Jason

 

[tcrosson]

Free trade allows companies to export work and import the produced product without penalties (high taxes). From a business prospective this is good since it dramaticly cuts costs.

However, from a domestic stance, it eliminates jobs from the lower/middle class which constitutes a high percentage of Americans. The lower/middle class is responsible for the vast majority of the USA Real GDP and if they do not have jobs they will not spend (or spend just enough to pay taxes, living costs, food). This slowly shoves the US towards a 2nd/3rd world country as citizens are pushed towards poverty. Remember: If you're exporting, say $15-20/hour American job, that person is forced to drop in potential employment to (at most) $10-14. That's not very easy to raise a family with (say husband, wife, 1 child).

I'm hoping people will understand this come election time and get rid of Bush who is hurting the common man.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

How does free trade and regulation even belong in the same sentence? IMO, its the half-assed attempt at it, a combination of free trade, regulations, and government subsidies, that has hindered the success of free trade. Either we should do it, or we shouldn't. IMO, the limbo state of in-between that we are currently embroiled in is worse than going one way or the other.

I agree, I was just trying my hand at compromise, hehe

Now Dragon, think back on Iraq and the government we need there. Isn't it the same thing here? Shouldn't somebody like me who sees so much more really force the right government on the world? I assure you, I know what is natural for man, and whole lots of people will kick at first, eventually, with new generations and education, everybody will come to be happy. This is a much better way. Surely you can see that. Are you going to let people go on killing each other over competitive greed and need? That's not good for the inner true real man. Right?

What in the world are you talking about? No one should Force people to one thing or another. What I have always advocated is *restraining* people from using force against others who disagree.

Freedom to disagree peacefully might just be the most precious freedom we enjoy

Jason

Yes well of course, I chose the wrong words. I'm not going to force them to allow others to disagree, I'm going to make it so they can. I know the difference, but I got carried away. However, I'm just going to add in there *restrain* people from competing so they don't leave others behind. No more of this winners and losers crap that's against natural law. It's all for one and one for all just like it really should be. Everybody is inalienably entitled to happiness and losers aren't happy.

 

[rufruf44]

Free trade = bad for US worker, good for 3rd world/developing countries, very good for US business and executives (to a point at least).