Free Thinkers and Sheeple

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
A great example of this "new tone" BS you seem to want to see is the Education bill. Who did Bush ask to write that. Oh I forgot - you must think 'Ol swimmer is a "moderate" :roll:
CsG

The question wasn't where moderates messed up...but where Bush and DeLay have reached out to other extremists to build bridges...Nice try

You don't think Bush asking Ol swimmer kennedy was an attempt to build a bridge?

CsG

 

[Stunt]

a) I have no idea what that is.
b) attempt not equal to building.

You are saying how moderates are useless...but moderates are the only ones that are able to get things done and keep most people happy.

 

[Stunt]

CAD, you'd think a well informed individual like yourself would be able to come up with several examples of what i am asking for.
Second term president and a US Representative since 1984 and you are struggling?...yikes.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt
CAD, you'd think a well informed individual like yourself would be able to come up with several examples i am asking for.
Second term president and a US Representative since 1984 and you are struggling?...yikes.

No, not struggling at all - you don't seem to accept the first one so there is no need to proceed. As I stated - it is a great example of reaching out to build a bridge. Ofcourse we all know how it EVENTUALLY ended(although there was a temporary "bridge")...with a knife in the Bush's back due to politics. But hey - I'm sure that wouldn't have happened if "moderates" actually produced an agenda.

CsG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Stunt
We are talking politics, and if he cannot find things that a second term president has done to build bridges, his idea of the extremist putting forward moderate legislation is fully wrong.

What does this have to do with your statement that only moderates can build bridges? Oh yeah, you are obfuscating.

This is between Cad and I, you can run along please, I'm sure he'd rather not you post on his behalf.

"Wow. You are hiding my opinion. OMG, you are distorting reality."

I can post whatever I want to. I will point out all your logical flaws whenever I see them. Deal with it.

Heh, I missed this post earlier. :thumbsup:

CsG

 

[Stunt]

Not my fault you cannot find an extremist building an actual bridge as you claim they can...If you have no examples, one can only assume that it is moderates "grey" people who bring people together. I can name moderate who bring people together...

Explain the topic you had mentioned...also, i am fine with other examples, you are allowed to use a 20 year Representative and a 5 year President; both very public and important individuals.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Stunt
We are talking politics, and if he cannot find things that a second term president has done to build bridges, his idea of the extremist putting forward moderate legislation is fully wrong.

What does this have to do with your statement that only moderates can build bridges? Oh yeah, you are obfuscating.

This is between Cad and I, you can run along please, I'm sure he'd rather not you post on his behalf.

"Wow. You are hiding my opinion. OMG, you are distorting reality."

I can post whatever I want to. I will point out all your logical flaws whenever I see them. Deal with it.

Heh, I missed this post earlier. :thumbsup:

CsG

Infohawk has nothing to do with the questions i am asking.

 

[irwincur]

I will now claim success...

This has bascially been a thread in which real debate has won out - on both sides. Could it be that the people here at Anand may have learned the value of thought and discussion? Hell, it has even remained civil for being quite divided. And there have remarkably few off topic twists and turns.

Sometimes people need a kick in the a$$ to realize that we all too often move off topic and away from the debate. I worded the original post to try to stimulate a real debate without anti Bush diatribes and thoughtless Google dumps and it seems to have worked. There is hope after all.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Stunt
You need a moderate to create the comprimise. I search for a moderate for this exact reason, make the most people happy.

No you don't. Compromise can be accomplished without these so-called "moderates".

CsG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Not my fault you cannot find an extremist building an actual bridge as you claim they can...If you have no examples, one can only assume that it is moderates "grey" people who bring people together. I can name moderate who bring people together...

Explain the topic you had mentioned...also, i am fine with other examples, you are allowed to use a 20 year Representative and a 5 year President; both very public and important individuals.

:roll: I am "allowed" to use anything I damn well please and will not be bound by your asinsine game.
Leaders set the agenda and if that makes them extreme - fine but they get a hell of a lot more done than those wishing to appease the other side.
No one is saying that moderates don't participate in getting things done - however moderates aren't usually leaders or if they are - they aren't very effective.
Building bridges and/or compromising is not something that is required for a Leader to do - nor is it required for things to get done/make people happy.

Oh, and infohawk can participate if he wishes - you don't make the rules of engagement

I have a question for you since you seem to think bridges are gold. What exactly does a moderate bridge accomplish?

CsG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Stunt
You need a moderate to create the comprimise. I search for a moderate for this exact reason, make the most people happy.

No you don't. Compromise can be accomplished without these so-called "moderates".

CsG

Yes and it was proven with the Education bill. Bush and 'Ol swimmer kennedy. Moderates didn't compromise - Bush and teddy did. (granted there was some legislation play involved but that doesn't mean "moderates" made or broke it)

CsG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt
You need a moderate to create the comprimise.

:roll:
Prove it.

CsG

 

[Stunt]

Three names, countless examples...use google: Lieberman, Clinton, McCain.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Stunt
You need a moderate to create the comprimise.

:roll:
Prove it.

CsG

That is a fair demand.

Additionally, you don't need a moderate to create a compromise.

I had a similar discussion with Stunt here.. That's why I posted here. I think it speaks to the underlying issue.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Three names, countless examples...use google: Lieberman, Clinton, McCain.

That only shows that moderates CAN create compromise. With more evidence, you might even show that moderates ARE MORE LIKELY to compromise.

However, your statement was that you NEED moderates to compromise. A corollary is that two extremists can't compromise. This is what you need to prove, unless you want to retract your statement or otherwise correct it. (Or maybe you have a different definition of "moderate" and "compromise"? [I doubt that though.])

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Stunt
Three names, countless examples...use google: Lieberman, Clinton, McCain.

That only shows that moderates CAN create compromise. With more evidence, you might even show that moderates ARE MORE LIKELY to compromise.

However, your statement was that you NEED moderates to compromise. A corollary is that two extremists can't compromise. This is what you need to prove, unless you want to retract your statement or otherwise correct it.

That's exactly what CAD asked for...

"That only shows that moderates CAN create compromise. " -Infohawk
"[prove] You need a moderate to create the comprimise."

There's no way in hell i can prove you NEED a moderate, you'd have to go through EVERY SINGLE debate ever in the history of the world.

I've put up, and accepted by your beloved Infohawk, now your turn to put up that extremists can consistently come to a comprimise, similar to my moderate examples.

You are asking for absolutely ridiculous things...All i am asking for is for CAD to give examples from two prominent extremists building bridges.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Stunt
There's no way in hell i can prove you NEED a moderate

That suggests your claim is not true.

I've put up, and accepted by your beloved Infohawk, now your turn to put up that extremists can consistently come to a comprimise, similar to my moderate examples.

I'm not making that claim. I didn't say anything about "consistently" coming to a compromise.

You are asking for absolutely ridiculous things...

Asking you to support your claims is not ridiculous.

All i am asking for is for CAD to give examples from two prominent extremists building bridges.

Why does it have to be "prominent"? Again you are trying to warp the issue. Here is the issue in question right now:

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Stunt
You need a moderate to create the comprimise. I search for a moderate for this exact reason, make the most people happy.

No you don't. Compromise can be accomplished without these so-called "moderates".

CsG

I didn't see anything about "prominent." (I'm not surprised you are interested in "prominent" people though. Do you think they are more likely to be right? Again, google "appeal to popularity").

Can extremists compromise? Of course. Do you think communists are moderate? Do you think Nazis are moderate? The Nazi-Soviet Non-Agression Pact might be of interest to you.

 

[Stunt]

Can extremists compromise? Of course. Do you think communists are moderate? Do you think Nazis are moderate? The Nazi-Soviet Non-Agression Pact might be of interest to you.

You'd be amazed what fear can do to motivate people. When it comes to politics and legislation where people aren't going to die, just difference of opinion, you absolutely need moderates. (That's where most people are)

You of all people, I'm surprised you are actually helping to support extremists ability to build bridges (as CAD is)...Look at the current admin.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Can extremists compromise? Of course. Do you think communists are moderate? Do you think Nazis are moderate? The Nazi-Soviet Non-Agression Pact might be of interest to you.

You'd be amazed what fear can do to motivate people. When it comes to politics and legislation where people aren't going to die, just difference of opinion, you absolutely need moderates. (That's where most people are)

You of all people, I'm surprised you are actually helping to support extremists ability to build bridges (as CAD is)...Look at the current admin.

You kidding? Info is the author of this thread after all.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Stunt

Can extremists compromise? Of course. Do you think communists are moderate? Do you think Nazis are moderate? The Nazi-Soviet Non-Agression Pact might be of interest to you.

You'd be amazed what fear can do to motivate people. When it comes to politics and legislation where people aren't going to die, just difference of opinion, you absolutely need moderates. (That's where most people are)

You of all people, I'm surprised you are actually helping to support extremists ability to build bridges (as CAD is)...Look at the current admin.

You kidding? Info is the author of this thread after all.

Ah, this is true. There is nothing wrong with being a partisan extremist...forgot :roll:

The funny part is, I've heard both Infohawk and CAD b!tch and complain that their respective sides never get anything done because of the extremists on the other side. Oh well...what can you do, except laugh.

 

[judasmachine]

just as there are robots on either side, and in the middile, there are free thinkers. if not we'd all stagnate on our side of the fence and no ideas or dreams would ever come into fruition. but as to why the righties are called sheeple by some, is their boy in the office keeps calling for people to follow him and not criticize him. the term sheeple is a hyperbolic generalizarion.

 

[Infohawk]

When it comes to politics and legislation where people aren't going to die, just difference of opinion, you absolutely need moderates.

A lot of people would call this "packpeddling." Personally, I don't care if you change your claim, as long as you recognize your old claim (that extremists can't compromise) was invalid.

Your new claim limits your idea to political situations "where people aren't going to die." What is your evidence for this?

In Congress, there are bills and amendments that are passed unanimously that are not about war or death. This contradicts your claim extremists can't compromise.

That's where most people are

What does this have to do with extremists not being able to compromise? Are you saying you can only have agreement if a lot of people are present?

You of all people, I'm surprised you are actually helping to support extremists ability to build bridges (as CAD is)...Look at the current admin.

This is an appeal to Appeal to Emotion, a logical fallacy. Anyway, why would I reject an argument based on who's making it? That would be unreasonable. You should only judge the argument itself. If the truth helps the opposition (and in this case it doesn't help anyone really), I would agree with the opposition.

The funny part is, I've heard both Infohawk and CAD b!tch and complain that their respective sides never get anything done because of the extremists on the other side. Oh well

Links? What does this have to due with your claim?

...what can you do, except laugh.

Actually, you can check outthis website. I don't know if your pride is stopping you, but you apparently haven't integrated the information since you keep making the same mistakes. These are classic ideas that will help you post logically.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Stunt
Three names, countless examples...use google: Lieberman, Clinton, McCain.

That only shows that moderates CAN create compromise. With more evidence, you might even show that moderates ARE MORE LIKELY to compromise.

However, your statement was that you NEED moderates to compromise. A corollary is that two extremists can't compromise. This is what you need to prove, unless you want to retract your statement or otherwise correct it.

That's exactly what CAD asked for...

"That only shows that moderates CAN create compromise. " -Infohawk
"[prove] You need a moderate to create the comprimise."

There's no way in hell i can prove you NEED a moderate, you'd have to go through EVERY SINGLE debate ever in the history of the world.

I've put up, and accepted by your beloved Infohawk, now your turn to put up that extremists can consistently come to a comprimise, similar to my moderate examples.

You are asking for absolutely ridiculous things...All i am asking for is for CAD to give examples from two prominent extremists building bridges.

You made the claim - now back it up.

Also, I think any proof you need that "extremists" can build bridges is right here in this thread. Infohawk and I agree and are pummeling your asinine claim. Even though we are on polar opposites of the American political system - we both are working against you "moderates" claim.

CsG

 

[Stunt]

I don't have links ready, but I think it is fair to say you are upset that Republicans don't listen to Democrats...am i fair in that judgement?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Stunt
You need a moderate to create the comprimise.

:roll:
Prove it.

CsG

That is a fair demand.

Additionally, you don't need a moderate to create a compromise.

I had a similar discussion with Stunt here.. That's why I posted here. I think it speaks to the underlying issue.

If two extremists are hashing out an issue - there is no need for a third person who is moderate to come to a compromise. Sure, it can happen, and sometimes a compromise is reached sooner -but to say a moderate is needed to create the compromise is totally asinine.

CsG