Free speech, social media and the workplace

[Craig234]

Jokes and sarcasm are no defense. It's actually pretty common for 'jokes' to be the cause of these violations.

 

[TraumaRN]

Jokes and sarcasm are no defense. It's actually pretty common for 'jokes' to be the cause of these violations.

In that case they'd have to fire half our department. According to their policy as written just off the top of my head I can think of at least a half dozen people who have violated their social media/electronic comms policy.

Moreover I've seen a few employees post far more offensive things than I ever even dreamed...and yet they still have a job and aren't suspended.

To me that says first off your policy is far too broad and secondly, you are not enforcing it effectively probably because it is so broad. And if your excuse for not enforcing it is because no one is being harmed by people spouting off then I ask why am I being suspended? I didn't harm anyone or the system either. I posted 2 jokes as told by someone else, broadly compared ER care to burger king and made a broad statement about doctors not following issued protocols. Tell me where is the harm?

 

[Craig234]

In that case they'd have to fire half our department. According to their policy as written just off the top of my head I can think of at least a half dozen people who have violated their social media/electronic comms policy.

Moreover I've seen a few employees post far more offensive things than I ever even dreamed...and yet they still have a job and aren't suspended.

To me that says first off your policy is far too broad and secondly, you are not enforcing it effectively probably because it is so broad. And if you excuse for not enforcing it is because no one is being harmed by people spouting off then I ask why am I being suspended? I didn't harm anyone or the system either.

Unfortunately, they have a lot of leeway in deciding what to care about and what not to.
It's mostly just their decision. Also, 'for cause' can save them unemployment costs.

 

[TraumaRN]

Unfortunately, they have a lot of leeway in deciding what to care about and what not to.
It's mostly just their decision. Also, 'for cause' can save them unemployment costs.

Right and I understand that. But this is just so ethically gray and doesn't pass a smell test if you get my meaning. And I understand this is kind of what the NLRB is for.

One thing I hadn't really mentioned was this is following a pattern of someone trying to get me in trouble/fired. And they may have found the way. What I mean is that in November someone at work let it be known that I am atheistic which I dont talk about at work but if you are my FB friend you can tell from my page likes. So that stirred the gossip pot a bit. Then this person accused me of bringing in offensive books to work, that didnt stick it at all, then someone stole morphine out of the medication dispenser after I was accidentally left logged in. Still dont know who because I was on security camera in the patient hallway and the thief knew how to avoid the cameras. Im also a charge nurse and this person went to management with claims that I was an ineffective incompetent leader that didn't stick either cuz it was simply untrue. Now all of this. Especially bringing up the post from 10 months says to me you searched through hundreds of my postings because I'm quite active on FB to find that one thing. Clearly this person does not like me at all. And because of how our company policy works I am not allowed to face/know who my accuser is.

 

[smackababy]

Here is my take on it, and it might be a little stricter than the average person because I spent time recently in the military and they drill this in your head (among other things).

Whether intended or not, you represent your company at all times. While, I personally, don't believe the remarks you made should result in you losing your job, your company has to take into consideration what those remarks could actually effect. You stated that someone at the hospital does not follow procedures and that you, meaning the patients, cannot have it their way. That could mean they are anything but accommodating to patients and the every day practices could be harmful or neglectful. Now, the third remark specifically names doctors and one could assume, where ever those doctors work, your other remarks are directed towards.

With all of that, even if your Facebook is entirely private, one of your friends might read and remark to a few of his friends what he heard about the hospital you work at. They, in turn, tell a few of their friends, and eventually everyone knows TraumaRN's hospital hates and mistreats patients and employs doctors who don't follow strict protocol. While, that was not your intentions or even feelings, since you represent that company you inadvertently gave that impression to the public.

Yes, some of this might be a reach or seem far fetched, but that is how rumors get started and misinformation gets spread. I still don't see them being justified in firing you, however, considering the potential for patient harm because you are distracted by these accusations, I understand why they suspended you pending an investigation / decision.

 

[TerryMathews]

Unfortunately, they have a lot of leeway in deciding what to care about and what not to.
It's mostly just their decision. Also, 'for cause' can save them unemployment costs.

Again, I disagree. A good labor lawyer will likely be able to spin this in TraumaRN's favor.

It may blackball you in the industry though, so choose wisely. Supposedly NLRB decisions are to be immune from retaliation but you know how it works. They'll find a way and until they do you'll have a target on your back.

 

[crashtestdummy]

I'm assuming they are looking at things from a standpoint of I embarrassed someone with these posts? I'm not sure because I'm not a lawyer. Just from their own policy they'd have to twist it kinda hard to say I violated that. Like the case I quoted above essentially the MD is my supervisor I can make workplace gripes without fear of reprisal, moreover the statement is so vague that I could reasonably make it in normal conversation. I could have posted at any time without any person in mind, which was my original intent of the post about not following protocols. The other 3 posts I'm not even sure they could even apply to this policy, unless they really want to police jokes and sarcasm.

My guess is that they particularly took except to the intimation that one of their MDs was not following proper medical procedure. This would open them to medical litigation should a lawyer for a patient find this.

While I agree that firing you would be short-sighted and draconian on their part, they may be legally able to fire you. There's still a lot of grey area with regards to this kind of thing, and it hasn't been properly work out in courts. Cerpin Taxt pretty much hit it on the head in terms of the free speech side of things.

I have sympathy for your situation, but this is also why I don't put anything remotely controversial on Facebook. No political opinions, no workplace complaints, etc. despite being very outspoken in person. It's just too easy to search for a name and see a whole bunch of posts.

 

[Craig234]

Again, I disagree. A good labor lawyer will likely be able to spin this in TraumaRN's favor.

It may blackball you in the industry though, so choose wisely. Supposedly NLRB decisions are to be immune from retaliation but you know how it works. They'll find a way and until they do you'll have a target on your back.

We each have a right to our opinion. Just getting a 'good labor lawyer' to consider this case, in my opinion from what I've heard, is likely to be only on a fee basis.

Meaning, they know they won't win, and won't take it on contingency, only if paid by the client for the loss.

I don't think a good labor can spin it in their favor, from what I've seen. If the case could more strongly be built that someone is trying too sabotage her, it'd help - but mostly if it helps with the opinion of the employer, not in court. Even if someone is completely 'out to get here' and brings forth evidence of facebook pages they consider a violation, it doesn't defend her. They aren't concerned about the motive of who made them aware. The question is simply whether they think it violates the rules.

Her protection is less to prove someone is out to get here, than to give that person nothing to use.

I do think she should make her boss aware of the sabotage efforts, though.

 

[woolfe9998]

TraumaRN is a he, not a she, profession notwithstanding.

 

[TraumaRN]

TraumaRN is a he, not a she, profession notwithstanding.

Thanks I'm certainly a minority.

 

[woolfe9998]

Thanks I'm certainly a minority.

No problem. One word of caution to you, though I hope by now you know this because it's obvious. Be very careful with social media. I know your gender from reading (sympathetically) your previous marital plight, and I recall one in a string of distressing incidents where your ex-wife is reading your Facebook stuff and getting jealous over it. So it's burned you now both personally and professionally. You may not have really done all that much wrong in either case, but I've seen Facebook postings have very bad real world results, including causing my old firm to lose a lot of clients because my boss was posting all kinds of weird shit about his personal life on it. People got laid off because of his lack of judgment on social media. Another guy I know was offered a job and the offer was revoked after they read something they didn't like on his FB page. Just be careful.

 

[TerryMathews]

No problem. One word of caution to you, though I hope by now you know this because it's obvious. Be very careful with social media. I know your gender from reading (sympathetically) your previous marital plight, and I recall one in a string of distressing incidents where your ex-wife is reading your Facebook stuff and getting jealous over it. So it's burned you now both personally and professionally. You may not have really done all that much wrong in either case, but I've seen Facebook postings have very bad real world results, including causing my old firm to lose a lot of clients because my boss was posting all kinds of weird shit about his personal life on it. People got laid off because of his lack of judgment on social media. Another guy I know was offered a job and the offer was revoked after they read something they didn't like on his FB page. Just be careful.

Absolutely agree 100%. Legally, TraumaRN may be able to use the NLRB to get out of this but you're always never off to have been in the situation in the first place.

 

[shadow9d9]

Whether "right" or not, you have to learn to protect yourself. Facebook is a gossip mill filled with petty people... which is why I have zero interest in it. Protect yourself by refusing to refer to work.

It is clear that someone is out to get you and this is the perfect excuse. Don't give them anything on you in the future.

I'm not sure what you want our opinion about. This isn't a free speech issue at all... I can't stand when people have no clue what "free speech" refers to... Is it unfair? Maybe, likely... but you opened yourself up to it, so there isn't much that can be done...

 

[TraumaRN]

Absolutely agree 100%. Legally, TraumaRN may be able to use the NLRB to get out of this but you're always never off to have been in the situation in the first place.

Heard nothing again today. I figure they are either waiting until friday to can me or they are consulting their legal team especially considering how uber broad their policy is.

Funny thing was today on facebook I saw two of my fellow employees post things that would easily violate said policy on social media. Perhaps I should call HR tomorrow. And no I'm not bitter at all about this.

 

[Craig234]

Heard nothing again today. I figure they are either waiting until friday to can me or they are consulting their legal team especially considering how uber broad their policy is.

Funny thing was today on facebook I saw two of my fellow employees post things that would easily violate said policy on social media. Perhaps I should call HR tomorrow. And no I'm not bitter at all about this.

Just my opinion, but I'd say save those things and don't rock the boat needlessly.

Inconsistent handling of violations is one of the more powerful legal claims for a lawsuit.

 

[TraumaRN]

Just my opinion, but I'd say save those things and don't rock the boat needlessly.

Inconsistent handling of violations is one of the more powerful legal claims for a lawsuit.

No I'm saving it until I know what actually will happen to me.

 

[Paratus]

No I'm saving it until I know what actually will happen to me.

Did you get this resolved?

I had a thought the other day that from your description you have a hostile work place environment. If someone is continually filing false grievances against that may give you some leverage with HR.

 

[TraumaRN]

Did you get this resolved?

I had a thought the other day that from your description you have a hostile work place environment. If someone is continually filing false grievances against that may give you some leverage with HR.

Heading to a meeting in an hour. Bringing notes with me about this being a possible hostile workplace issue due to me being an atheist. This issue not included I've been called into my managers office 3 times in 5 months to address claims made against me. And it all started with someone, no one will tell me who, informing pretty much the whole department I'm an atheist. Ever since that happened in December is when all the problems started to happen. I complained to HR and my manager but I kind of got a collective shrug and we're sorry that happened.

I'm also going printing off Facebook's TOS/privacy policy since it addresses these kinds of issues as well(in the sense that someone violated my privacy to do something malicious)

I also got in touch with a lawyer friend who recommended I mention the possibility of also filing a complaint with the NLRB.

I reviewed our company policies on these matters and will point out how the rules are not being enforced evenly and that again this is creating a hostile workplace environment for me.

Pretty much I'm going to go in guns blazing(figuratively) and hope for the best. I was told I'm not being fired although I'm not sure I believe that yet. We will see what happens...

 

[crashtestdummy]

Pretty much I'm going to go in guns blazing(figuratively) and hope for the best. I was told I'm not being fired although I'm not sure I believe that yet. We will see what happens...

Be careful. Don't blow everything up until you hear what they have planned. Most likely it's just a slap on the wrist.

 

[TraumaRN]

Be careful. Don't blow everything up until you hear what they have planned. Most likely it's just a slap on the wrist.

I'm gonna see what they say first then proceed.

 

[smackababy]

I'm gonna see what they say first then proceed.

We, obviously, don't know all the details about your workplace environment, but I think it is quite hard to prove a hostile workplace claim. Not that I don't think you don't have one, I just think proving that in a suit is a bit difficult. I'd have lawyer'd up right after I was put on suspension.

Best of luck though. Hope everything works out for you. Sorry for being a negative Nancy. =(

 

[JTsyo]

saying Doc So and So told a funny joke does not violate HIPPA neither does anything else that we are told was posted

if i had to guess the person you made that ER comment about even tho not named found out and went to HR before someone could go to HR about him/her not following the rules

Well the issue they probably have is him saying that the proper procedures weren't followed in the ER. If a lawsuit came up against the hospital, even for a different patient, the post can be brought up as proof of a history of not following proper procedures.

OP how do they have your post if it was protected? Did one of your FB friends take a screenshot or something? Weird that they would do that months ago and then go to HR with it now.

 

[smackababy]

Well the issue they probably have is him saying that the proper procedures weren't followed in the ER. If a lawsuit came up against the hospital, even for a different patient, the post can be brought up as proof of a history of not following proper procedures.

OP how do they have your post if it was protected? Did one of your FB friends take a screenshot or something? Weird that they would do that months ago and then go to HR with it now.

Unless he deleted the post, the person could just easily go back through OP's feed and find it.

 

[TraumaRN]

Be careful. Don't blow everything up until you hear what they have planned. Most likely it's just a slap on the wrist.

Yeah I wish it was just a slap on the wrist. I lost 2 days of pay, and was given a final warning. Anymore actions will be immediate termination.

They said I posted "negative comments about patients, management and physicians." in violation of customer service standards. That's right guys, the jokes I posted by two physicians and attributed to them, because well they told the joke, are negative comments about them. And HR was apparently most concerned about those two jokes more than anything else.

HR straight up wanted to terminate me. Manager said no and kept me on but with a final warning. The entire conversation was somewhat surreal...when I asked what I really did wrong, I was told I damaged the trust of the "team." I explained to my boss that I felt targeted, and that I work in a hostile workplace because who can I trust to not stab me in the back. She told me I should just apologize to my team members for what I did wrong, I said who should I apologize to? No one even knows what happened(yet), and moreover how can I apologize when I don't know who to apologize to. I asked can you tell me who did this so I can have a discussion with them. Absolutely not I was told. Apparently there were printed screen captures that were turned in(including one post that I made that I wasn't made aware of previously). I asked if I could see the printed screen captures. I was told absolutely not.

I asked to be granted 5 days to file a grievance and to be able to talk to our facility director and HR as well.

As far as being targeted, my boss stated as far as they are aware no one is targeting me. I kind of blew holes in that however. I asked her point blank if someone went through 10 months of facebook posts to find the ones that would lead to me being in trouble, then took screenshots of those posts, then printed them off and took them to management(which is apparently how things went down)....how would you feel? Manager replied, "I would feel like I was being targeted."

When I asked if based on previous incidents if it was the same person that was coming to her with complaints, I was told "well I don't know that"

Like it is hard to explain using just words but the whole meeting felt...odd. I mentioned to my boss about how this was a clear violation of my personal privacy, and a violation of using facebook, the reply was essentially well the company policies come before anything else and that the team was being severely damaged by these posting(including the jokes!)

When I mentioned that I felt my privacy was violated again and stated that I would be looking into potential legal action/NLRB concerning my punishment and privacy violations, I was quickly rebuffed that I wasn't fired so there was no legal wrongdoing. To which I replied the NLRB has said humor, satire, sarcasm, etc are free to be posted without fear of reprisal/suspension etc, as long as said post is not defamatory/derogatory/libel/slander against a specific person/business which none of my posts were. I got a blank stare and a change of subject as a response.

And probably the most annoying part was being told that I need to apologize to the two doctors in question and that I needed to talk with my "team" and tell them I would always be there for them...which is odd considering no one has ever complained about my lack of teamwork in the two years I've worked there, nor has anyone complained that I abandoned them etc etc. It was also really reassuring that when I stated how can I manage to be a good team player and worker when I am one backstab away from being fired even if it's the most minor thing. I said, how can I trust anyone I work with besides my 3 work friends? The response was along the lines of well you'll have to work something out and maybe apologize to people who might have been offended by your actions.

Except I have no idea who was offended/doesn't like me in the first place because I apparently have no right to face my accuser.

FWIW I'm already working the lawyer angle, and doing some research on the NLRB this afternoon. I've also been tweaking my resume a bit, and checking a few other places to work just so I know what is out there, and just in case. The strange thing is despite all this crap, I'd love to stay where I'm at, it's a great place to work TBH, I really like the whole setup, it is just unfortunate that this is happening, but I'm trying to prep for all possibilities. Sorry for the rambling long post I'm in a bit of emotional frustrated shock right now.

 

[Lazarus52980]

FWIW, I am glad that you were able to keep your job. I was seriously worried you would be terminated...🙁