Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[Londo_Jowo]

Well no shit it hasn't been proven. That is the point of the trial.

However we do know he died in their custody. It is clear that if it wasn't intentional there was certainly some negligence to watch a man die and do nothing about it.

So who exactly watched him die?

 

[Genx87]

So who exactly watched him die?

When he asked for medical attention over and over, was checked on, and left to die. I really think of all the cops charged the driver has the best chance of an actual murder conviction.

What would you charge these cops with over his death?

 

[Exophase]

What would you charge these cops with over his death?

Involuntary manslaughter by criminal negligence.

I think the case will be made that they underestimated the severity of his medical condition and the risk he was in being transported under the conditions he was placed in, rather than wanting to kill him or not caring either way if he died. At the very least, I don't see how they could demonstrate this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

This is just speculation but I have serious doubts that these cops would directly want Gray dead or have zero interest in whether he lived or died. I'm not saying this because I think they're too good for that but because I don't understand how it benefits them. I could see it if they had some kind of personal grudge with him or his charges were particularly egregious but I don't think they'd take that chance just based on some general hatred of criminals or black people (especially since the drivers were black). Even if they as police officers weren't in as much risk as a civilian would be in wanting to or having complete indifference towards someone's death the risk is still significant.

 

[xBiffx]

Well no shit it hasn't been proven. That is the point of the trial.

However we do know he died in their custody. It is clear that if it wasn't intentional there was certainly some negligence to watch a man die and do nothing about it.

He died a week later in the hospital. Honestly, do you even know what you are talking about?

 

[ch33zw1z]

He died a week later in the hospital. Honestly, do you even know what you are talking about?

Wasn't he arrested? So did them immediately drop charges or post police at the hospital.

 

[xBiffx]

Wasn't he arrested? So did them immediately drop charges or post police at the hospital.

Are you freaking kidding me? Even if there were police guards at the hospital (unlikely given his condition) how is that watching him die while in police custody? I guess the doctors and nurses are also guilty of watching him die. Perhaps we should set fire to the hospital now, amiright?

Nice troll attempt, I guess.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Not trolling. Seriously, was he or was he not in police custody at the time of his death. You started the nit picking, give me the details. I'll be back in a few hours to check the answer.

 

[xBiffx]

Not trolling. Seriously, was he or was he not in police custody at the time of his death. You started the nit picking, give me the details.

When did I start nit picking? Is it not a fact that he died a week later while in the hospital? How does that equate to the police watching him die in any sense of the words? Only a complete troll tries to connect those dots.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

When he asked for medical attention over and over, was checked on, and left to die. I really think of all the cops charged the driver has the best chance of an actual murder conviction.

What would you charge these cops with over his death?

Don't be surprised when the murder charged is dropped due to the lack of evidence I would also be surprised if any are convicted of manslaughter. I've yet to see any evidence that the police knew he had a severed spice or any conclusive evidence it was the police and not Mr Gray who inflicted the severe wound. The prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

I will be surprised if these cases goes to a jury trial. I suspect they will leave their fate to a judge.

 

[Genx87]

He died a week later in the hospital. Honestly, do you even know what you are talking about?

/facepalm

Are you going to answer my question about what charges you would bring against these officers or not?

 

[Genx87]

Don't be surprised when the murder charged is dropped due to the lack of evidence I would also be surprised if any are convicted of manslaughter. I've yet to see any evidence that the police knew he had a severed spice or any conclusive evidence it was the police and not Mr Gray who inflicted the severe wound. The prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

I will be surprised if these cases goes to a jury trial. I suspect they will leave their fate to a judge.

Eh none of that would surprise me. In fact if they never went to trial it would be par for the course when police officers are involved in violating citizens rights.

So I should assume you will join xBiffx and not answer what charges you would bring against these cops?

 

[xBiffx]

/facepalm

Are you going to answer my question about what charges you would bring against these officers or not?

Really, /facepalm is all you can come up with?

As to your repeated question, it's a fools errand, and you know it. Stop asking because a) it doesn't matter what I think and b) whatever I think will most undoubtedly be wrong.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Eh none of that would surprise me. In fact if they never went to trial it would be par for the course when police officers are involved in violating citizens rights.

So I should assume you will join xBiffx and not answer what charges you would bring against these cops?

I would bring charges I could back up with evidence and could prove beyond a reasonable doubt, funny how US Constitution and state's laws require such.

 

[xBiffx]

I would bring charges I could back up with evidence and could prove beyond a reasonable doubt, funny how US Constitution and state's laws require such.

Weird, I have said as much yet he still wants to act like the question has gone completely unanswered. As if the answer from either you or I matters anyway.

I'll say it again, the charges levied against the officers appear to be made not to stick. Proving them is going to be extremely difficult with what we know so far, barring a new witness.

 

[cabri]

/facepalm

What charges you would bring against these officers or not?

At most, manslaughter.

As it turns out; the arrest was legit - the knife was illegal under city code.
And murder requires intention.

The DA (probably under pressure) took the police investigation and pushed over the limits of what the evidence showed.

It will be interesting if there is an independent investigation as to the evidence that is not biased (Ferguson 😛)

 

[Genx87]

Really, /facepalm is all you can come up with?

As to your repeated question, it's a fools errand, and you know it. Stop asking because a) it doesn't matter what I think and b) whatever I think will most undoubtedly be wrong.

/facepalm is all that can be described by your response.

It isn't a fools errand. I want to know what you would charge these officers with in the death of this man. If you cant answer the question I can only assume it is because you dont want to admit you would charge them with nothing at all. Essentially letting the govt kill citizens with no recourse. Let me guess, small govt conservative right?

 

[JSt0rm]

Really, /facepalm is all you can come up with?

As to your repeated question, it's a fools errand, and you know it. Stop asking because a) it doesn't matter what I think and b) whatever I think will most undoubtedly be wrong.

If it doesnt matter what you think then stop polluting the thread with your special brand of stupid.

 

[Genx87]

I would bring charges I could back up with evidence and could prove beyond a reasonable doubt, funny how US Constitution and state's laws require such.

Eh prosecutors always over charge. Funny how when it is cops be subjected to the system people suddenly want it to stop.

Anyways which charges do you believe would stick in this situation?

 

[xBiffx]

If it doesnt matter what you think then stop polluting the thread with your special brand of stupid.

Way to add to the thread, jackass.

 

[Genx87]

At most, manslaughter.

As it turns out; the arrest was legit - the knife was illegal under city code.
And murder requires intention.

The DA (probably under pressure) took the police investigation and pushed over the limits of what the evidence showed.

It will be interesting if there is an independent investigation as to the evidence that is not biased (Ferguson 😛)

There is only one officer charged with second degree murder. The rest are charged with manslaughter and lesser charges.

I'd assume the DOJ will get involved in some way shape or form. When these charges fail to bring a guilty verdict. I suspect civil rights charges will come down from the feds.

 

[xBiffx]

/facepalm is all that can be described by your response.

It isn't a fools errand. I want to know what you would charge these officers with in the death of this man. If you cant answer the question I can only assume it is because you dont want to admit you would charge them with nothing at all. Essentially letting the govt kill citizens with no recourse. Let me guess, small govt conservative right?

It doesn't matter what I would charge them with. It doesn't matter what you would charge them with. What matters is what they have been charged with and the fact that its going to be tough for those charges to stick.

No recourse? You honestly think these cops are going to be able to work again ever in that city?

As soon as you realize that charges don't equal a conviction or a punishment, you'll be all the better for it. Charge them all with murder, see how that goes.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Eh prosecutors always over charge. Funny how when it is cops be subjected to the system people suddenly want it to stop.

Anyways which charges do you believe would stick in this situation?

Yes, they sure do. The last case I can remember a DA overcharged it fell right in their lap because they couldn't prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt with their wannabe evidence.....Zimmerman.

I think this DA is going to experience the same fate.

 

[Blanky]

No idea what I would charge him with. The only scant evidence I have heard is the inconsistent crap in the media. Nobody here has enough evidence either way to determine guilt over a single thing. It is possible the cops did nothing wrong and t is possible that six of them should be found guilty in his death. The truth almost certainly lies in the middle, but I would be very surprised to see a litany of convictions over this.

 

[Genx87]

It doesn't matter what I would charge them with. It doesn't matter what you would charge them with. What matters is what they have been charged with and the fact that its going to be tough for those charges to stick.

You dont understand why I keep requesting you answer the question. I want to see you admit you think these cops should get off without charges at all. You have been dancing around it all thread. Why dont you just come out, admit it, and defend that stance?

No recourse? You honestly think these cops are going to be able to work again ever in that city?

Well there is a fair trade off for citizens of this country. If a police officer murders you, they aren't allowed to be a cop anymore.

As soon as you realize that charges don't equal a conviction or a punishment, you'll be all the better for it. Charge them all with murder, see how that goes.

See my above posts. I am fully expecting these cops to get off. The system is such that cops can violate our rights and get away with it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

When did I start nit picking? Is it not a fact that he died a week later while in the hospital? How does that equate to the police watching him die in any sense of the words? Only a complete troll tries to connect those dots.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37383401&postcount=779

This is where you started nit picking. But hey, if you don't want to...or can't answer the question, then whatever. You can call me a troll all day, doesn't make it true.