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Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

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eskimospy said:
I think there might be just a few other reasons behind white flight.
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Not really. There are only two causes of white flight. Fear of your own safety and fear of rapidly declining property values forcing anyone with the means to get out while there is still a market. And the two are connected.
 
the larger problem here is man made liberalism. It results in mass hysteria and irrational behavior. The alarmist hyper boil about alleged oppression and racism fanned and fueled by willing accomplices in the media and big Gov. along with endless grievance mongers designed to maintain a drum beat of anger and discontent. This is today's Democrat Party.
 
GagHalfrunt said:
Not really. There are only two causes of white flight. Fear of your own safety and fear of rapidly declining property values forcing anyone with the means to get out while there is still a market. And the two are connected.
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Both of those are caused by hundreds of factors contributing to them though, which is what eskimospy was pointing out. The causes can be numerous. Property value could go down due to changing business models, natural causes, shifting cultural tastes, civil unrest, etc.
 
GagHalfrunt said:
Not really. There are only two causes of white flight. Fear of your own safety and fear of rapidly declining property values forcing anyone with the means to get out while there is still a market. And the two are connected.
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You're forgetting cause #3, if a lot of black people start moving in a mostly white neighborhood. Many white people will be looking to move ASAP. There are still plenty of white people who don't want to be live around a lot of black people, even if they're decent hard working people.
 
Subyman said:
Both of those are caused by hundreds of factors contributing to them though, which is what eskimospy was pointing out. The causes can be numerous. Property value could go down due to changing business models, natural causes, shifting cultural tastes, civil unrest, etc.
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Statistically those other factors don't hold up. When business models change, people get different jobs in the same area. And tornado alley, New Orleans, northeast blizzards and west coast earthquakes conclusively prove that certain races most assuredly do not desert an area en masse due to natural causes. No evidence exists for cultural tastes. But civil unrest, that's the key.

White flight is traced clearly to the race riots of the 60s. Civil unrest, fear of safety and fear that the perception of an area as being unsafe will trash property values. There's not a single shred of evidence of "xxxxx flight" being tied to anything other than race. Some members of one ethnic group feel outnumbered, unsafe, see the handwriting on the wall and think the numbers will only get worse, so they jump out. Conditions then look worse and a few more follow. And a few more and poof, "xxxx flight". It's called white flight because it happens most often with middle class white abandoning areas starting to go downhill, but it does happen other ways too. Asian and hispanic and black communities can flee too if circumstances are right. But it's never about anything except race and perception of safety because of race. One group feels unsafe and bolts if they can.
 
GagHalfrunt said:
Not really. There are only two causes of white flight. Fear of your own safety and fear of rapidly declining property values forcing anyone with the means to get out while there is still a market. And the two are connected.
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I've seen this said many times now "white flight", this isn't directed at you but my question is are white people what it takes to make these communities successful?

I don't understand why it's even a factor to just simply say "oh these communities have just went downward after white people left"

What's that say about the black communities? Having white people live intermingled with black people makes their lives better just makes no sense to me.
 
QueBert said:
You're forgetting cause #3, if a lot of black people start moving in a mostly white neighborhood. Many white people will be looking to move ASAP. There are still plenty of white people who don't want to be live around a lot of black people, even if they're decent hard working people.
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That's still just an offshoot of cause 1 and cause 2. Whether it's real or not, there is a perception that a drastically shifting ethnic makeup of a neighborhood will go badly for the former majority. It doesn't matter if the new group is decent hardworking people, all it takes is fear. If you fear things will go downhill you get out ASAP. There's a reason people try to get off a sinking ship while it's still on the surface and not halfway to the bottom.

What's the difference between "I don't want to live in a neighborhood with these people because I personally hate this group of people" and "I don't want to live in a neighborhood with these people because other people hate this group of people and I'll never be able to sell my house if I don't do it now"? The end result is the same, people are jumping to protect either themselves or their property values. It doesn't have to be a real threat, the fear of the threat is enough.
 
The issue with White Flight as it relates to economic income in an area isn't because there are less white people there, it's because typically when White Flight happens, it means those with higher discretionary incomes are leaving the area and those with lower are replacing them.

If there was a 1 for 1 replacement of white people with black people and those black people provided the same tax and spending profiles as their white counterparts, there wouldn't be near as large of a hit. Since that typically isn't the case, businesses close/move.

There are other reasons for the area to go to shit, but that certainly is one of them. Not that I blame them...
 
GagHalfrunt said:
Not really. There are only two causes of white flight. Fear of your own safety and fear of rapidly declining property values forcing anyone with the means to get out while there is still a market. And the two are connected.
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There are at least two more, although of course they don't apply only to whites. Some of us don't want to be in close proximity to many people of any ethnicity or behavior. And some of us want a little land, which we can't possibly afford in the city even if we wanted to be there.
 
nextJin said:
What's that say about the black communities? Having white people live intermingled with black people makes their lives better just makes no sense to me.
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Having people with higher income intermingled makes the total tax contribution higher which benefits everyone. People don't just choose their neighborhood based on their neighbors but on what the local government can offer. Especially when it comes to public education. I think most of the same white people would have no problem living with upper crust black families that earn a lot of money.

Unfortunately, with the way the economic system works people near or below the poverty line have the deck stacked against them and there's a good chance their children will be even worse off than they are. Poorer people become more likely to steal and get involved in other high risk criminal activity (vs wealthier people that generally stick to low risk criminal activity), they're more likely to turn to drug addiction and irresponsible sex lives, and they're more likely to lose hope and stop trying when it comes to education or work.

Their children will also usually be identifiable as members of the same race, so economic condition closely couples with race. Then the worsening conditions of people who are mostly poor as a group feeds on the prejudice and paranoia others have against them.

And this is the downward spiral that has been happening for decades. It's really tragic and a hard problem to address.
 
QueBert said:
You're forgetting cause #3, if a lot of black people start moving in a mostly white neighborhood. Many white people will be looking to move ASAP. There are still plenty of white people who don't want to be live around a lot of black people, even if they're decent hard working people.
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Ah, yes, the race card! Life's wondrous tool to avoid having to put actual thought into a situation 😛
 
Exophase said:
Having people with higher income intermingled makes the total tax contribution higher which benefits everyone. People don't just choose their neighborhood based on their neighbors but on what the local government can offer. Especially when it comes to public education. I think most of the same white people would have no problem living with upper crust black families that earn a lot of money.
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This, exactly.

As much as we want to dream of an ideal socialist society where we all live and share in harmony, the reality is the world operates based on self-interests, self-desires. People want to live in a community where they are the beneficiary of their neighbors, not the giver to their neighbors. This holds true for damn near all people regardless of race.

If rich black families began moving into my neighborhood, I'd be ecstatic! Come, live near me!


People who are mobile move for 3 primary reasons: (1) a better job for themselves, (2) better educational system for their children, (3) safety (I won't be job hunting around Baltimore anytime soon)

When "flight" occurs, it occurs not because the group wants to protect group interests, it's because individuals want to protect their own self-interests.
 
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smackababy said:
"Right 'o govna. Can you be a good chap and send in some National Guardsmen? I fathom military occupation will certainly quell this spat and settle these ruffians down!"
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I was just answering the question. But hey, let them burn their town down to the ground; that'll generate all kinds of sympathy. Libs are all about PEACE!!! LOVE!!! LOVE!!! PEACE!!!! VIOLENCE IS NEVER THE ANSWER!!! Until something offends them, then its ok if all hell breaks loose.
 
A stronger police force would have quelled these riots before they would have started.

I feel like the police is not controlling the riots on purpose. My gut feeling.

The US government is more than welcome to hire Belarussian riot control police to take control of the situation.
 
cubby1223 said:
This, exactly.

As much as we want to dream of an ideal socialist society where we all live and share in harmony, the reality is the world operates based on self-interests, self-desires. People want to live in a community where they are the beneficiary of their neighbors, not the giver to their neighbors. This holds true for damn near all people regardless of race.

If rich black families began moving into my neighborhood, I'd be ecstatic! Come, live near me!


People who are mobile move for 3 primary reasons: (1) a better job for themselves, (2) better educational system for their children, (3) safety (I won't be job hunting around Baltimore anytime soon)

When "flight" occurs, it occurs not because the group wants to protect group interests, it's because individuals want to protect their own self-interests.
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My question still applies though if what you all are saying is correct. Flight is just individuals looking out for themselves which is human in nature.

Why do white people have to live in these communities to make their lives better? Do black people need white peoples tax money to have better schools and education to work out of their rut? There are countless poor white communities with the same problems where we don't see the same type of environment for children/teens.
 
I've been watching some of the coverage and the media seems fascinated by numbers. Number of arrests, how much the senior center costs, how many fires, how many police cars, how many national guard on call, how many officers requested from New Jersey, how much looting took place, etc etc.

When the media shows protests in other countries such as the Arab Spring, the media instead focuses on what social issues caused the protests. It is unfortunate that instead of directing our attention on the root cause, we are more concerned about the effects of it.

I'm not saying the looters and such are innocent or that the riots shouldn't be properly covered, but the overt fascination with the surface level tensions instead of the undercurrent that causes it is unfortunate.
 
Subyman said:
I've been watching some of the coverage and the media seems fascinated by numbers. Number of arrests, how much the senior center costs, how many fires, how many police cars, how many national guard on call, how many officers requested from New Jersey, how much looting took place, etc etc.

When the media shows protests in other countries such as the Arab Spring, the media instead focuses on what social issues caused the protests. It is unfortunate that instead of directing our attention on the root cause, we are more concerned about the effects of it.

I'm not saying the looters and such are innocent or that the riots shouldn't be properly covered, but the overt fascination with the surface level tensions instead of the undercurrent that causes it is unfortunate.
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Its pretty simple "no justice, no peace" means just that. Everybody wants to call them animals for looting and breaking things but if they didnt do that then nthing would get done. The only thing humans understand is violence - thats including the cops. If businesses get destroyed everytime a cop kills a black person for no reason there will be massive pressure from THAT community on the local politics. Thats how you get change.
 
GagHalfrunt said:
Statistically those other factors don't hold up. When business models change, people get different jobs in the same area. And tornado alley, New Orleans, northeast blizzards and west coast earthquakes conclusively prove that certain races most assuredly do not desert an area en masse due to natural causes. No evidence exists for cultural tastes. But civil unrest, that's the key.

White flight is traced clearly to the race riots of the 60s. Civil unrest, fear of safety and fear that the perception of an area as being unsafe will trash property values. There's not a single shred of evidence of "xxxxx flight" being tied to anything other than race. Some members of one ethnic group feel outnumbered, unsafe, see the handwriting on the wall and think the numbers will only get worse, so they jump out. Conditions then look worse and a few more follow. And a few more and poof, "xxxx flight". It's called white flight because it happens most often with middle class white abandoning areas starting to go downhill, but it does happen other ways too. Asian and hispanic and black communities can flee too if circumstances are right. But it's never about anything except race and perception of safety because of race. One group feels unsafe and bolts if they can.
Click to expand...

People have all kinds of reasons for moving. It's more complicated than just the fear of safety, although racial makeup is likely the largest reason. Monterey Bay CA is a good example, after East Asian professionals started moving in in the late 70s about a quarter of the white population left. I'm sure you'll see similar statistics regarding Vancouver. The majority of the influx is from a wealthier and better educated population that has about 1/4 or 1/5 of the white crime rate but it still has precipitated a fairly significant exodus of the white population.
 
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