Freaking Wiretapping Program

[NaughtyGeek]

Source

Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter, said the N.S.A. had been engaged in ?overcollection? of domestic communications of Americans. They described the practice as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional.

And yet, even with abuse of the system staring us all in the face, there will be plenty of botards here to continue to defend the program cause it protects us from the government's boogeyman of the week. Just remember people, all they have to do is say you're a terrorist and you no longer have any rights, period. With documents being released by DHS and other official agencies stating supporters of the Constitution, third party candidates, or those with "strong christian beliefs" are potential terrorists, I can't believe most people continue to feel we're being protected by this nonsense.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
I can't believe most people continue to feel we're being protected by this nonsense.

Those who fight for expansion of government powers will always find a use for those powers. They have invested their entire ideological existence on the notion that they must have power. That this power must be used. Because to not act is worse than acting to "fix" the problem.

We have come full circle when it becomes the average citizen that is the problem to be cured. Those who support tyranny and act in treason against this nation finally reveal themselves.

 

[palehorse]

My grandmother once said that you need to wait 30 minutes after you eat to go swimming.

:roll:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: palehorse
My grandmother once said that you need to wait 30 minutes after you eat to go swimming.

:roll:

Well, your grandmother is certainly comparable in relevance and credibility to "Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter", with the added filtering of the New York Times' reporter's judgement and the editor's judgement on their credibility. You added nothing but nonsense with your post. Whatever useful informaton you may have on the issue doesn't change the absence of value in this post.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: palehorse
My grandmother once said that you need to wait 30 minutes after you eat to go swimming.

:roll:

Well, your grandmother is certainly comparable in relevance and credibility to "Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter", with the added filtering of the New York Times' reporter's judgement and the editor's judgement on their credibility. You added nothing but nonsense with your post. Whatever useful informaton you may have on the issue doesn't change the absence of value in this post.

Just as the reporter's story does nothing to establish veracity for the reported information. These were not statements made on the record by these so-called "official" sources.

But hey, since it fits your agenda, go ahead and drink up...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: palehorse
My grandmother once said that you need to wait 30 minutes after you eat to go swimming.

:roll:

Well, your grandmother is certainly comparable in relevance and credibility to "Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter", with the added filtering of the New York Times' reporter's judgement and the editor's judgement on their credibility. You added nothing but nonsense with your post. Whatever useful informaton you may have on the issue doesn't change the absence of value in this post.

Just as the reporter's story does nothing to establish veracity for the reported information. These were not statements made on the record by these so-called "official" sources.

But hey, since it fits your agenda, go ahead and drink up...

You're a terrible victim of your own biases. On wiretapping, a federal judge and an appellate judge meant 'nothing' as you careful wordsmithed a standard of a 'high court having to rule' to evade their opinions which you copletely failed to even mention when describing the history of the issue - and here, you similarly create an arbitrary standard for anything to be worth listening to of having to be 'statements on the record by official sources', otherwise they are exactly the same as your grandmother.

You are consistetnly showing a lack of judgement in these weak and twisted attacks that appear so disengenuously designed to just barely skirt around the facts and to create arbitrarily excessive standards lest you condemn the information as utterly baseless - when it suits you.

Toss in the gratuitous projection of you attacking someone who is showng good judgement by accusing them of what you do, with a partisan agenda, and that's what you do.

You don't add anything to the discussion becase you are not using any good faith approach, you are merely following the partisan agenda to attack whatever you oppose.

There are legitimate questions to ask about the reliability of information, but you don't ask those, you play the part of the partisan.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek
Source

Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter, said the N.S.A. had been engaged in ?overcollection? of domestic communications of Americans. They described the practice as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional.

And yet, even with abuse of the system staring us all in the face, there will be plenty of botards here to continue to defend the program cause it protects us from the government's boogeyman of the week. Just remember people, all they have to do is say you're a terrorist and you no longer have any rights, period. With documents being released by DHS and other official agencies stating supporters of the Constitution, third party candidates, or those with "strong christian beliefs" are potential terrorists, I can't believe most people continue to feel we're being protected by this nonsense.

Quick run for the hills.....tinfoil hats are being over manufactured....the few, the proud, the paranoid!!!

 

[spidey07]

Obama says it's OK, so it must be OK.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Obama says it's OK, so it must be OK.

NO! It is NOT OK! See my sig. :|

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: spidey07

Obama says it's OK, so it must be OK.

NO! It is NOT OK! See my sig. :|

Yeah Spidey07...its not OK.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Craig234
you play the part of the partisan.

That's rich! :laugh:

 

[SAWYER]

lol, this board never is short on laughs

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: spidey07

Obama says it's OK, so it must be OK.

NO! It is NOT OK! See my sig. :|

Yet you continue to support the Traitor in Thief known as Obama.. Why is that? Apparently you suppor\t these illegal wiretapping actvities. I bet you are actually the one wiretapping aren't you? TRAITOR!!!

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: spidey07

Obama says it's OK, so it must be OK.

NO! It is NOT OK! See my sig. :|

Yet you continue to support the Traitor in Thief known as Obama.. Why is that? Apparently you suppor\t these illegal wiretapping actvities. I bet you are actually the one wiretapping aren't you? TRAITOR!!!

Harvey has made it very clear that he does not support Obama on this issue.

You are accusing him of something based on his not supporting Bush or McCain instead, people who are also wrong on this issue, and many many more.

That makes no sense. Which we expect from you.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Quote:

And in one previously undisclosed episode, the N.S.A. tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant, an intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said.

So the NSA wanted to wiretap an elected official without a warrant?

No one else is disgusted by this? All it takes is "suspicion", and you can wiretap anyone? I guess people that support this want to go back to the Hoover era where he collected dirt on everyone.

 

[RKDaley]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Quote:

And in one previously undisclosed episode, the N.S.A. tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant, an intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said.

So the NSA wanted to wiretap an elected official without a warrant?

No one else is disgusted by this? All it takes is "suspicion", and you can wiretap anyone?

[sarcasm]
Sure! If the Congress person had done nothing wrong, he/she had nothing to worry about.
[/sarcasm]

 

[PokerGuy]

This kind of stuff, left unchecked has the real potential to really destroy the foundation of a free society.

We argue about things like fair use rights, gun rights etc, but a government that is allowed unchecked surveilance of journalists and even congressmen who might hold an oppinion they don't like is really a sign of danger.

This is not good, I don't care if it's Bush, Obama or anyone else.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Just as the reporter's story does nothing to establish veracity for the reported information. These were not statements made on the record by these so-called "official" sources.

But hey, since it fits your agenda, go ahead and drink up...

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Quick run for the hills.....tinfoil hats are being over manufactured....the few, the proud, the paranoid!!!

^ Exactly why this problem will only get worse, not better. Too many people ready to blindly allow their government to do as it pleases. Tell me this Palehorse, how can you say you defend The Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic but let this nonsense fly? This program, combined with The Patriot Act, basically destroys any and all protections that were ever afforded us by The Constitution. All that has to happen is you have to be suspected of terrorism and you basically become an unperson. What is the point of our guaranteed rights at that point? They don't exist.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

^ Exactly why this problem will only get worse, not better. Too many people ready to blindly allow their government to do as it pleases. Tell me this Palehorse, how can you say you defend The Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic but let this nonsense fly? This program, combined with The Patriot Act, basically destroys any and all protections that were ever afforded us by The Constitution. All that has to happen is you have to be suspected of terrorism and you basically become an unperson. What is the point of our guaranteed rights at that point? They don't exist.

You apparently expect too much from the common citizen. Getting some to value the most important document in American history is a task. Some see it as an archaic document written for two centuries ago and not for the modern man. You, I and some others do see its timelessness and its amazing insight into corrupt government actions. Its effectiveness is bound to us, the people, to charge government when it steps over the line. When most of society becomes little more than lethargic to basic Constitution rights, that fight becomes increasingly futile.

People will wake up when its time, although, I fear when they do it will be too late.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Quote:

And in one previously undisclosed episode, the N.S.A. tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant, an intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said.

So the NSA wanted to wiretap an elected official without a warrant?

No one else is disgusted by this? All it takes is "suspicion", and you can wiretap anyone? I guess people that support this want to go back to the Hoover era where he collected dirt on everyone.

This isn't even the first time.

http://www.historycommons.org/...tem=civilliberties_213

I don't know about the veracity of some of these claims, but the Strom Thurmond case came out under oath, and was pretty well documented.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: spidey07

Obama says it's OK, so it must be OK.

NO! It is NOT OK! See my sig. :|

Sure it is! The Bushwhackos are out of power! Hooray change! Hooray hope! Welcome to the land of milk and honey!

ETA: Thats not so much meant as a direct reply to your statement. Frankly, I'm mildly shocked at your lack of support for something the Democrats are doing.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

Originally posted by: palehorse

Just as the reporter's story does nothing to establish veracity for the reported information. These were not statements made on the record by these so-called "official" sources.

But hey, since it fits your agenda, go ahead and drink up...

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Quick run for the hills.....tinfoil hats are being over manufactured....the few, the proud, the paranoid!!!

^ Exactly why this problem will only get worse, not better. Too many people ready to blindly allow their government to do as it pleases. Tell me this Palehorse, how can you say you defend The Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic but let this nonsense fly? This program, combined with The Patriot Act, basically destroys any and all protections that were ever afforded us by The Constitution. All that has to happen is you have to be suspected of terrorism and you basically become an unperson. What is the point of our guaranteed rights at that point? They don't exist.

Don't get me wrong. There may have been some definitively illegal or unconstitutional activities in this case. However, my problem with Craig, and others like them, is that they immediately condemn the agencies or processes without any hearings, trials, or official testimony of any sort. Craig, and those like him, are quick to believe anything that fits their own personal beliefs or agenda, and they never give the issue any second thoughts whatsoever.

As I said before, on this very issue, I sincerely desire full investigations into every allegation. Only then, when as many facts as possible are made available to the public, will I stand beside Craig and Co. shouting "themz teh evul falkerz!! Hang em!!"

Too many people are too quick to pass judgment, on every issue, after a single story or event occurs that fits their own agenda... it's disgusting.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: NaughtyGeek

Originally posted by: palehorse

Just as the reporter's story does nothing to establish veracity for the reported information. These were not statements made on the record by these so-called "official" sources.

But hey, since it fits your agenda, go ahead and drink up...

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Quick run for the hills.....tinfoil hats are being over manufactured....the few, the proud, the paranoid!!!

^ Exactly why this problem will only get worse, not better. Too many people ready to blindly allow their government to do as it pleases. Tell me this Palehorse, how can you say you defend The Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic but let this nonsense fly? This program, combined with The Patriot Act, basically destroys any and all protections that were ever afforded us by The Constitution. All that has to happen is you have to be suspected of terrorism and you basically become an unperson. What is the point of our guaranteed rights at that point? They don't exist.

Don't get me wrong. There may have been some definitively illegal or unconstitutional activities in this case. However, my problem with Craig, and others like them, is that they immediately condemn the agencies or processes without any hearings, trials, or official testimony of any sort. Craig, and those like him, are quick to believe anything that fits their own personal beliefs or agenda, and they never give the issue any second thoughts whatsoever.

As I said before, on this very issue, I sincerely desire full investigations into every allegation. Only then, when as many facts as possible are made available to the public, will I stand beside Craig and Co. shouting "themz teh evul falkerz!! Hang em!!"

Too many people are too quick to pass judgment, on every issue, after a single story or event occurs that fits their own agenda... it's disgusting.

Don't try to summarize my position, when you refuse to tell the truth about it. I don't have 'an agenda'. Usually that's followed by 'and you do', but I'm not sure you do on this.

You fail to use the available information, and set arbitrary, excessive demands for some things, in my opinion. I'm very careful, yet have different standards.

That's a difference of opinion, not an 'agenda'. Get a clue. Instead of responding to the issue, you make a baseless attack, very weak.