Franken will likely win in Minnesota.

[Lemon law]

Do not look for the Minnesota Senate race to be decided soon, all of what is now being discussed is just the peanut gallery warm up bands, the real State sanctioned recount only starts after November 18.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Genx87
When it comes time to do these recounts it is amazing where they find democrat votes.
I have little doubt they will find 1000 ballots in the trunk of a democratic official on the Iron Range and 90% of those votes will go to Franken. Nevermind the fact 1000 people probably dont even live in the precinct.

http://ksax.com/article/stories/S653106.shtml?cat=10230

"We were actually told they had been riding around in her car for several days, which raised all kinds of integrity questions," said Coleman's attorney, Fritz Knaak.

Gee the script for this is so damn predictable.

Wow, mislead people much?

I know, you didn't technically LIE. But you quoted yourself predicting that someone will find 1000 ballots in their trunk, and then you link to an article talking about someone finding ballots in their trunk, obviously deliberately leaving out the fact that she found only 32 ballots. Yes, 32 ballots can still make a big difference here. Yes, it raises certain concerns. But being absentee ballots, they are sealed and have people's personal information on them, unlike normal ballots.

Leave it upto an apologist to nit pick. When i made the comment about 1000 ballots it was in jest. I think most people understood one cant predict the exact amount of ballots one will find in a car trunk. Only predict the act of finding ballots in a car trunk. Which is simply fucking ridiculous. Regardless of what kind of ballot it is.

I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing out your deliberate attempt to mislead people. When you bold the two statements that you did ("find 1000 ballots in the trunk" and then "riding around in her car for several days"), it's obvious you're trying to trick a few people into thinking that someone actually did pull 1000 ballots out of a car trunk.

Nice job trying to deflect it back at me though.

 

[umbrella39]

Votes for Frankin found in a trunk? Why was the GOP trying to hide those votes? See how this works?

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Votes for Frankin found in a trunk? Why was the GOP trying to hide those votes? See how this works?

We don't even know who the votes are for. If all 32 of them were for Coleman, do you think Genx87 would be making such a big deal?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: tm37
Another thing that really concerns me is that why is it all of the undervotes are going to be for frankin? People must really be down on democrats as it would appear they are the only one unable to fill out a ballot.

The actual, approximate undervote totals are about 18500 in strongly Democrat precincts and about 6000 in strongly Republican precincts.

It may well be that most of those undervotes are legitimate. But assuming 10% actually have a senate vote on them, then a net of about 1250 ballots in Democrat precincts could well decide the election. Assuming Franken had a 20% margin over Coleman in those precincts, then Franken would pick up 250 votes, for a net margin of 29 votes for Franken. Mix in random changes on a small percentage of other statewide ballots, and this election could end up with a margin of 10 votes, one way or the other. For an election with 2.4 million votes cast, that would probably go down as the closest election in history.

What? You think only 10% of people are voting for their U.S. Senator? There were virtually the same number of votes cast for the presidential race as there were cast for the senate race. I'd say 90% would be a conservative estimate.

he was clearly illustrating that even if a small percent of the undervote actually has a vote, it's franken's election. why is everyone so aggressive around here?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Votes for Frankin found in a trunk? Why was the GOP trying to hide those votes? See how this works?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong song here, there are human errors, there are and will be unfortunate mistakes
in procedure that will benefit each candidate in separate incidents, and then there will be cases of outright election fraud that may or may not come to light in the recount.

Only incidents of the latter nature should be be reasons for alarm, the former are simply the emotional food that will nurture a new generation of prematurely born trolls, crying loudly, expending much energy, but casting no light.

All the disputed former concerns will be duly noted during the recount starting after November 18, both sides will examine the facts, and will very likely come to the correct conclusions. And much of what is being bleated about now will likely be not matters of dispute later. Its what the recount process is about, do not bitch now, because your emotional favorite may come out on top, in which case its counterproductive to cast the legitimacy of the election into doubt.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: tm37
Another thing that really concerns me is that why is it all of the undervotes are going to be for frankin? People must really be down on democrats as it would appear they are the only one unable to fill out a ballot.

The actual, approximate undervote totals are about 18500 in strongly Democrat precincts and about 6000 in strongly Republican precincts.

It may well be that most of those undervotes are legitimate. But assuming 10% actually have a senate vote on them, then a net of about 1250 ballots in Democrat precincts could well decide the election. Assuming Franken had a 20% margin over Coleman in those precincts, then Franken would pick up 250 votes, for a net margin of 29 votes for Franken. Mix in random changes on a small percentage of other statewide ballots, and this election could end up with a margin of 10 votes, one way or the other. For an election with 2.4 million votes cast, that would probably go down as the closest election in history.

What? You think only 10% of people are voting for their U.S. Senator? There were virtually the same number of votes cast for the presidential race as there were cast for the senate race. I'd say 90% would be a conservative estimate.

he was clearly illustrating that even if a small percent of the undervote actually has a vote, it's franken's election. why is everyone so aggressive around here?

I wasn't trying to be aggressive, I was just confused by what he said and wanted to make sure that's actually what he was saying.

Now, though, I realize that when I posted that, I didn't realize what an "undervote" was. Now that I've learned what it is, 10% seems like a conservative, but fair, estimate of how many undervotes actually have a senate vote on them.

 

[mxyzptlk]

I really liked Franken's book, Lies and the lying liars who tell them. I'd have voted for him if he were running in CA.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: tm37
Another thing that really concerns me is that why is it all of the undervotes are going to be for frankin? People must really be down on democrats as it would appear they are the only one unable to fill out a ballot.

The actual, approximate undervote totals are about 18500 in strongly Democrat precincts and about 6000 in strongly Republican precincts.

It may well be that most of those undervotes are legitimate. But assuming 10% actually have a senate vote on them, then a net of about 1250 ballots in Democrat precincts could well decide the election. Assuming Franken had a 20% margin over Coleman in those precincts, then Franken would pick up 250 votes, for a net margin of 29 votes for Franken. Mix in random changes on a small percentage of other statewide ballots, and this election could end up with a margin of 10 votes, one way or the other. For an election with 2.4 million votes cast, that would probably go down as the closest election in history.

What? You think only 10% of people are voting for their U.S. Senator? There were virtually the same number of votes cast for the presidential race as there were cast for the senate race. I'd say 90% would be a conservative estimate.

he was clearly illustrating that even if a small percent of the undervote actually has a vote, it's franken's election. why is everyone so aggressive around here?

I wasn't trying to be aggressive, I was just confused by what he said and wanted to make sure that's actually what he was saying.

Now, though, I realize that when I posted that, I didn't realize what an "undervote" was. Now that I've learned what it is, 10% seems like a conservative, but fair, estimate of how many undervotes actually have a senate vote on them.

Yes, I was being very conservative in my estimate. Most undervotes are caused by voter errors (they put a check mark, x, circle around the candidate, underline, etc, on the ballot instead of filling in the oval that the scantron looks for) rather than scantron errors. Other estimates are that almost a third of the ballots with senate undervotes will ultimately be found to have a valid vote on them.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Leave it upto an apologist to nit pick. When i made the comment about 1000 ballots it was in jest. I think most people understood one cant predict the exact amount of ballots one will find in a car trunk. Only predict the act of finding ballots in a car trunk. Which is simply fucking ridiculous. Regardless of what kind of ballot it is.

Gen : Leave it upto an apologist to nit pick. When i made the comment about 1000 ballots it was in jest.
Tab : Yea, that statement you wrote "I have little doubt" sure looks like you we're joking on that one. Lulz.

G : I think most people understood one cant predict the exact amount of ballots one will find in a car trunk.
T : Well, it appears you do infact posses these magical powers!

G : Only predict the act of finding ballots in a car trunk. Which is simply fucking ridiculous.
T : Ballots, in a car trunk. Oh the humanity! :Q

G : Regardless of what kind of ballot it is.
T : Other than the fact that absentee have other information, such as voter name, address, etc... more than enough information to show if it's actually legitimate.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Genx87
When it comes time to do these recounts it is amazing where they find democrat votes.
I have little doubt they will find 1000 ballots in the trunk of a democratic official on the Iron Range and 90% of those votes will go to Franken. Nevermind the fact 1000 people probably dont even live in the precinct.

http://ksax.com/article/stories/S653106.shtml?cat=10230

"We were actually told they had been riding around in her car for several days, which raised all kinds of integrity questions," said Coleman's attorney, Fritz Knaak.

Gee the script for this is so damn predictable.

Wow, mislead people much?

I know, you didn't technically LIE. But you quoted yourself predicting that someone will find 1000 ballots in their trunk, and then you link to an article talking about someone finding ballots in their trunk, obviously deliberately leaving out the fact that she found only 32 ballots. Yes, 32 ballots can still make a big difference here. Yes, it raises certain concerns. But being absentee ballots, they are sealed and have people's personal information on them, unlike normal ballots.

Leave it upto an apologist to nit pick. When i made the comment about 1000 ballots it was in jest. I think most people understood one cant predict the exact amount of ballots one will find in a car trunk. Only predict the act of finding ballots in a car trunk. Which is simply fucking ridiculous. Regardless of what kind of ballot it is.

I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing out your deliberate attempt to mislead people. When you bold the two statements that you did ("find 1000 ballots in the trunk" and then "riding around in her car for several days"), it's obvious you're trying to trick a few people into thinking that someone actually did pull 1000 ballots out of a car trunk.

Nice job trying to deflect it back at me though.

Yes you are nitpicking. The trunk is the connecting point is it not? Tricking is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Are you assuming people are idiots and cant read the entire article for themselves? I can tell you trickery was not even on my mind when I highlighted what I did.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I really liked Franken's book, Lies and the lying liars who tell them. I'd have voted for him if he were running in CA.

I read the book. Meh, it has cool stories, good information but goddamn Fraken is one cocky motherfucker - this guy has an enormous ego.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I really liked Franken's book, Lies and the lying liars who tell them. I'd have voted for him if he were running in CA.

I read the book. Meh, it has cool stories, good information but goddamn Fraken is one cocky motherfucker - this guy has an enormous ego.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tab may well have hit on why Franken has high negatives, with a degree in political science, a passion for politics, and a former career in comedy, Franken is certainly knowledgeable enough to understand national issues, but blending the two in what amounts to his first prime time political campaign at the Senate level is something Franken has not yet mastered. Comedy rewards the wacky and the cocky, we expect our political candidates to be more measured and sober, even if we will go all gaga for a Palin, a Reagan, a GWB, or an Obama.

If Franken can get that first big win under his belt, he will appear more serious by default, but Coleman as the veteran politician will by default look more serious. Franken almost has to make the many contradictions in the past Coleman positions into the stuff of comedy.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I attended a lecture last night by political journalist Eric Black, who discussed this article by three political scientists who posit that Franken will likely win, because the majority of the 30,000+ "overvotes" and "undervotes" are in heavily Democratic-friendly districts. We shall see . . .

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I attended a lecture last night by political journalist Eric Black, who discussed this article by three political scientists who posit that Franken will likely win, because the majority of the 30,000+ "overvotes" and "undervotes" are in heavily Democratic-friendly districts. We shall see . . .

I saw a spot on TV where they were saying they are counting the heavily Democratic districts now and Franken is picking up way less votes then they thought he would?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I attended a lecture last night by political journalist Eric Black, who discussed this article by three political scientists who posit that Franken will likely win, because the majority of the 30,000+ "overvotes" and "undervotes" are in heavily Democratic-friendly districts. We shall see . . .

I saw a spot on TV where they were saying they are counting the heavily Democratic districts now and Franken is picking up way less votes then they thought he would?

They're still pretty early in the process. We shall see. I myself am a registered Democrat who voted for Coleman, so I'm agnostic about the whole thing.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I attended a lecture last night by political journalist Eric Black, who discussed this article by three political scientists who posit that Franken will likely win, because the majority of the 30,000+ "overvotes" and "undervotes" are in heavily Democratic-friendly districts. We shall see . . .

I saw a spot on TV where they were saying they are counting the heavily Democratic districts now and Franken is picking up way less votes then they thought he would?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will fall far short of the nothing but the facts, Mam test, but I did hear a snatch on this morning television news saying Frankin now led by about 106 votes. A trip to yahoo news shows no recent articles, but I do have this link.

http://kaaltv.com/article/stor...670917.shtml?cat=10219

But more importantly, Frankin has won the legal battle to allow access to arbitrarily disqualified ballots.

But as all eyes are on Minnesota, I do express some confidence that all 2.9 ballots will be fairly counted. And at this point, what Coleman and Frankin now do is somewhat irrelevant, as will be those who try to spin the issue for political gain, because its merely now a matter of carefully counting what the voters really said on November the 4'th.

Sadly that process is slow, we will likely know the Senate winner in Georgia before we know the Senate winner in Minnesota.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I really liked Franken's book, Lies and the lying liars who tell them. I'd have voted for him if he were running in CA.

I downloaded it from www.audible.com

Hilarious book, and a major hit job on Bill O'Reilly and Fox Spews.

-Robert

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I attended a lecture last night by political journalist Eric Black, who discussed this article by three political scientists who posit that Franken will likely win, because the majority of the 30,000+ "overvotes" and "undervotes" are in heavily Democratic-friendly districts. We shall see . . .

I saw a spot on TV where they were saying they are counting the heavily Democratic districts now and Franken is picking up way less votes then they thought he would?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will fall far short of the nothing but the facts, Mam test, but I did hear a snatch on this morning television news saying Frankin now led by about 106 votes. A trip to yahoo news shows no recent articles, but I do have this link.

http://kaaltv.com/article/stor...670917.shtml?cat=10219

But more importantly, Frankin has won the legal battle to allow access to arbitrarily disqualified ballots.

But as all eyes are on Minnesota, I do express some confidence that all 2.9 ballots will be fairly counted. And at this point, what Coleman and Frankin now do is somewhat irrelevant, as will be those who try to spin the issue for political gain, because its merely now a matter of carefully counting what the voters really said on November the 4'th.

Sadly that process is slow, we will likely know the Senate winner in Georgia before we know the Senate winner in Minnesota.

As of 7:57 AM this morning, there was this AP item:

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) The pile of disputed ballots is growing in the re-count of Minnesota's senate race. Republican incumbent Norm Coleman's lead over Democrat Al Franken has shrunk to 129 votes.

But a lot of re-counting still remains.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: villageidiot111

Originally posted by: Genx87
When it comes time to do these recounts it is amazing where they find democrat votes.
I have little doubt they will find 1000 ballots in the trunk of a democratic official on the Iron Range and 90% of those votes will go to Franken. Nevermind the fact 1000 people probably dont even live in the precinct.

Wow there are a lot of unfounded accusations towards democrats in this thread. When you consider how close the election is new votes in either direction are going to seem like a large gain. Accusing democrats of election fraud without any evidence to support the claim is weak and unfair.

Call it a hunch.

I would call it closer to the "accuse others of what you do'' right wing mantra!!

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I attended a lecture last night by political journalist Eric Black, who discussed this article by three political scientists who posit that Franken will likely win, because the majority of the 30,000+ "overvotes" and "undervotes" are in heavily Democratic-friendly districts. We shall see . . .

I saw a spot on TV where they were saying they are counting the heavily Democratic districts now and Franken is picking up way less votes then they thought he would?

They're still pretty early in the process. We shall see. I myself am a registered Democrat who voted for Coleman, so I'm agnostic about the whole thing.

If you're agnostic, why did you vote for Coleman?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I really liked Franken's book, Lies and the lying liars who tell them. I'd have voted for him if he were running in CA.

I read the book. Meh, it has cool stories, good information but goddamn Fraken is one cocky motherfucker - this guy has an enormous ego.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tab may well have hit on why Franken has high negatives, with a degree in political science, a passion for politics, and a former career in comedy, Franken is certainly knowledgeable enough to understand national issues, but blending the two in what amounts to his first prime time political campaign at the Senate level is something Franken has not yet mastered. Comedy rewards the wacky and the cocky, we expect our political candidates to be more measured and sober, even if we will go all gaga for a Palin, a Reagan, a GWB, or an Obama.

If Franken can get that first big win under his belt, he will appear more serious by default, but Coleman as the veteran politician will by default look more serious. Franken almost has to make the many contradictions in the past Coleman positions into the stuff of comedy.

We need Franken to ridicule the pomp-ass side of politics. Hope he wins!:thumbsup:

 

[cubeless]

i think franken's in trouble... when chris matthews on hardball last night couldn't bring himself to give franken most of the contested ballots they showed, there might be a chance that sanity will prevail... the dem shill kept spouting 'intent' but matthews couldn't even stretch his partisanship that far...

there's no such thing as a contested ballot... either it's clearly marked or it's scrap, whichever side it might favor...

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: cubeless
i think franken's in trouble... when chris matthews on hardball last night couldn't bring himself to give franken most of the contested ballots they showed, there might be a chance that sanity will prevail... the dem shill kept spouting 'intent' but matthews couldn't even stretch his partisanship that far...

there's no such thing as a contested ballot... either it's clearly marked or it's scrap, whichever side it might favor...

The people of Minnesota disagree with you. It is clearly written into their law that the intent must be considered. If you circled the box for a candidate instead of filling it in, it may prove you're an idiot, but in Minnesota your vote should be counted for the candidate you clearly intended to vote for.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

If you're agnostic, why did you vote for Coleman?

I think they're both poor candidates, but Coleman is slightly less so. If the Democrats had nominated someone I could find ANY enthusiasm for I would have been happy to vote for him or her over Coleman, but Franken is a horrible candidate IMHO.