umbrella39
Lifer
Makes sense, I see it here every day. Where else but America will you see people supporting things that are against their best interests. The programming is complete. The echo chamber works!
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France's 'Rich' Say: Tax us more
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Makes sense, I see it here every day. Where else but America will you see people supporting things that are against their best interests. The programming is complete. The echo chamber works!
Fear No Evil
Diamond Member
So 4 trillion in spending is not enough to treat our people like human beings? How much should we be spending? 10? 20? 100 trillion a year? What amount of money will finally bring the libtards vision of utopia into existence?
ProfJohn
Lifer
Really??
From 2008 taxes, last year available.
Top 1% earn 20% of AGI and pay 38% of income taxes.
That would seem to counter your statement. The group that makes one fifth of all income pays two fifths of taxes.
The top .1% earned 9.9% of income and paid 18% of income taxes.
Again the taxes they paid were double their share of income.
There is a problem where the top .1% pay a smaller tax rate than the 1% group, but the difference is rather small and I believe it is only the very top .01% that get away with paying those Buffett 17% rates. So we are talking about 20,000 tax payers out of 139 million.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
France's politicians may be more trusted to put the extra funding to good use.
Macamus Prime
Diamond Member
What amount of money growth will finally bring conservatives to say "enough"? The wealthy have been growing like bloated pigs for the past 40 years. How much more do your masters want?
Also, fingermen are cheap (they just eat rich people feces), so this need to fund the rich's goons is non-existant.
Fear No Evil
Diamond Member
Yeah the poor and the middle class haven't grown in the past 40 years either. When you define poverty as having a house, 2 cars, cell phones, a couple of 50" flat screen TV's, a PS3, 2-3 computers, can go out to eat every other day, etc... Yep, exactly the same level poor people had 40 years ago. 🙄
Jesus christ you haven`t learned anything have you, it was entirely financed by credit.
Lower and middle class earnings growth has not exceeded the rise in inflation in 40 years, furthermore, lower and middle class buying power for actual wages earned not including credit purchases has not increased in as many years as well.
Sure, you can buy more stuff, but rather than being on one income, families now have 2 incomes, credit card debt, and home equity loans which is what got the USA into this mess to start off with! What are you going to do now, put the kids to work
The difference between now and 40 years ago was that a) credit cards were not prominently used b) there were really no home equity loans and c) people did not carry heavy mortgages on overinflated properties, oh and d) the USA wasn`t laden with debt and interest payments to the same degree.
By the way sorry there are no question marks in there, my keyboard is messed up.
woolfe9999
Diamond Member
Will the next bubble please stand up!
You can call it Keynesian or whatever else you want. It's a matter of common sense. You cut government spending, you lay off government workers, you increase unemployment. 2009/2010 were not the time for spending cuts any more than they were the time for tax increases.
Macamus Prime
Diamond Member
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...rowing-rich-poor-gap-20110223-141311-132.html
EDIT: oh wait... I forgot the eyeroll...
🙄
Ah, there we go!
woolfe9999
Diamond Member
Good question. The answer is, I don't know. The trouble here is you don't want to go into a recession already under the boot of a massive deficit curve because it hamstrings your ability to deal with the recession. There is really only one logical answer though: since the jobs problem is exacerbating the deficit problem, we need to take care of the jobs problem first and hope that not cutting spending doesn't bring the deficit to some threshold where it becomes the cause of a new economic downturn. If we weren't on the deficit curve going into the recession, we wouldn't have to "hope." However, our situation was such that there was no option that clearly and definitely would lead to a positive outcome, but the balance of probabilities suggests you let the deficit ride for a couple years instead of exacerbating an already catastrophic jobs problem by laying off government workers.
Assuming we ever get out of this in one piece, the long term solution is never to run deficits when the economy is sound, then when recession hits, we can stimulate the economy either through deficit spending and/or tax cuts, all of which are temporary. Then we pay it off when the economy recovers.
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sunzt
Diamond Member
Please don't use facts... it's unfair.
You know, anyone who thinks that they should be paying more to the government is free to send them a check at any time for any amount. There's nothing stopping them.
I'm sure the same is true in France.
This is nothing more than pandering. Stop talking about wanting to give the government money and start GIVING THE GOVERNMENT MONEY. Once they do that, then I'll be impressed. Until then, it's just hollow words.
I'm sure the same is true in France.
This is nothing more than pandering. Stop talking about wanting to give the government money and start GIVING THE GOVERNMENT MONEY. Once they do that, then I'll be impressed. Until then, it's just hollow words.
jackstar7
Lifer
To whom are they pandering?
Fear No Evil
Diamond Member
So what are you suggesting? Confiscate the wealth of the rich? We live during a time of unprecedented technological growth.. of COURSE there are going to be some people who take advantage of it and become massively wealthy. You are free to come up with a good idea and profit as well. People are finding ways to make billions off stuff that we never thought possible before.. think Facebook and Google for example. Should we punish people who innovate like that and just take their wealth? Perhaps the government should just take over Google?
The poor and middle class are often complacent and content with their income. Why should the poor work when they get free money from the government? Most of the middle class is content with their 2 SUV's and oversized house, although its easy to blame the rich when you overextended yourself.
Seriously at what point do we stop blaming the rich for everything? Most millionaires aren't like the Kennedy's who just path their wealth down from generation to generation, they have done something to MAKE themselves a millionaire. Others are free to do the same if they have the brains, the luck, the drive, etc to do it.
So yes, I'm sure the gap between the rich and the poor IS increasing. More government spending isn't going to solve that. We already spend 4 trillion dollars a year. At what point do we decide enough is enough and stop giving people everything they want.
blackangst1
Lifer
What are you talking about? France hasnt done anything yet. Per the article, theyre considering it...sound familiar? The difference between France's rich and America's rich...in both countries a handful are calling for more taxes, yet per the article, someone actually paid voluntary taxes. I have yet to read about Gates, Buffett, et al sending in an extra check.
Every sniveling, whiney liberal who will listen.
For whom are they pandering? The politicians who line their pockets with pork. The rich people whining to be taxed more, while not actually ever having to give any money away, are validating the liberal politicians' policies that "we need more taxes" despite the fact that the more taxes are raised, the more loopholes will be created.
The politican gets to say "look, i raised taxes or tried to" and gets reelected by stupid people who don't realize he didn't actually do anything, the rich guy gets to say "look what a patriot i am for volunteering more of my money" while not actually paying any more and then gets rewarded with appointments or government contracts.
They're all corrupt as fuck.
I stand by my statement: instead of whining about how much they're not being taxed, they should be sending in checks for whatever money they think they should be paying. Until they start doing that, anything they say is meaningless pandering.
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Hacp
Lifer
I don't see where they have already donated money.I don't think they have given a penny they didn't need to give.
Macamus Prime
Diamond Member
The rich actually create jobs in America.
America has been waiting since the Regan administration.
blackangst1
Lifer
Reading is fundemental lol.
OK, it says theyre willing to voluntarily pay more.
I believe thats further than just saying "we need to be taced more". TBH, Im not sure how one would actually pay more (like the mantra, "they can always send more"). Since our system is set up based on income, Im not sure if the IRS (or France's version) can accept more than whats required. But Im speaking off the cuff on this point.
Buffett only makes $100k a year and he will never sell his Berkshire stock. He will never pay taxes.
Fear No Evil
Diamond Member
Can't argue with that logic. I'm pretty sure Facebook and Google don't employ anyone. I am almost 100% certain Apple and Steve Jobs have 0 employees. Bill Gates and Microsoft? I think they have maybe 4 employees, but mostly just to carry around Bill's stuff.
JockoJohnson
Golden Member
So, you are saying the poor and middle class are made up of complete fucking morons? I agree. People need to learn to not buy stuff that they can't afford. Until then, the rich will get richer and the middle and poor classes will only get worse.
JockoJohnson
Golden Member
None of those companies technically employ people because all of the employees are paid in unicorn farts.
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