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FOXNews version of the US Casualty list
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Mean MrMustard
Diamond Member
Yes, and we also have to remember that Iraq was bent on world domination. When Hussein invades most of Europe, or Middle East or Asia for that matter, then come talk to me about my support for WWI and WWII.
Nitemare
Lifer
probably so,
but isn't this odd?
North Carolina and KKK 6,280 hits
California and KKK 25,800 hits
I see California but not North Carolina on this list link
The last klan march I remember hearing about in NC was over 10 years ago in Fayetteville
gistech1978
Diamond Member
isnt it odd that the whole first page of results with your KKK-NC link acutally deals with the KKK as in the ku klux klan?
however, that cannot be said about your california link.
even the first result doesnt have anything to do with the KKK!!!
what is this poppy songs?
some pdf file?
sorry.
you havent convinced me of anything, but perhaps you have convinced yourself that the KKK doesnt exist in NC.
man there are crazies, extremists and nutjobs everywhere.
however, that cannot be said about your california link.
even the first result doesnt have anything to do with the KKK!!!
what is this poppy songs?
some pdf file?
sorry.
you havent convinced me of anything, but perhaps you have convinced yourself that the KKK doesnt exist in NC.
man there are crazies, extremists and nutjobs everywhere.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Jesse Helms was a horrible politician when it comes to most issues of common decency. His one laudable policy perspective was championing the Dali Lama's struggle against China. But even Jesse would tell you that has a lot more to do with Helms' hatred of Communism than compassion for religious freedom.
Dole won b/c Erskine Bowles had the gall to serve as Chief of Staff for Clinton. Without the Clinton connection Bowles would have won b/c he's scarcely left of Dole plus he actually had original ideas instead of Bush junta retreads.
As for the topic . . . the ideals that used to represent military service have never been fully embraced by the civilian leadership. The development of a powerful military as lead to the common belief amongst policymakers that the military is just another tool to get our way . . . regardless of the morality embodied in those policies. Horrible crimes against humanity have been committed in the past century but US military might has NEVER been considered a primary force against atrocity. The only reason it's mentioned in the current context is it's the only argument we have. Despite the title . . . there is absolutely no way the American public would have endorsed our sojourn into Iraq without WMD, politics of fear, and politics of anger (9/11).
If Jessica Lynch's family was wealthy she would have NEVER enlisted. There are many people that become heroes . . . which by definition is ordinary people doing extraordinary acts. She was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and managed to survive a MVC. I'm sure many if not the majority of young people in the US military want to serve their country as a career. But many . . . and possibly a majority see it as a interlude, something to do, opportunity for college fund, or a myriad of other reasons. IMHO, short of wanting to join the military so you can legally (not necessarily morally) kill people . . . any reason is fine with me. But the nationalistic fervor which permeates our media and politics is disturbing.
What's equally troubling is the media/policymakers contortions to explain away the actions of any opponent as anything BUT bravery in the face of overwelming odds . . . while considering our actions (despite our overwelming advantages) to be incontrovertibly laudable.
Mean MrMustard
Diamond Member
Foresight is great isn't it? Iraq invaded Kuwait 12 years ago. Am I right? 😉 12 years ago we removed him for Kuwait, setup sanctions and no-fly zones.
This war was unnecessary and the threats were fabricated.
are you a racist bigot? what about the north koreans who have been pretty much starved out of existence for the last fifty years. i guess an asian life isnt good enough for you.
and what happened in ww1 and ww2? we were pretty much content to stay out of it until we ourselves were attacked. ww1, we stayed out of it the last year of fighting. ww2, we waited three years while jews were dying before entering.
the iraqis were suffering for 30+ years, and now all of a sudden we start a war and we call it a "freedom" operation. north koreans haven been starving and murdered for 50 years, why not sacrifice a few more thousand american lives for the north koreans? what's your breakeven ratio? 50 people freed to 1 american soldier? is that how much you're willing to "pay"?
Nitemare
Lifer
Who said anything about North Korea? Are you posting in the wrong thread. Kim jong is probably worse than Saddam, but if we have done something about him, we would all be glowing in the dark due to their big brother China. North Korea is fvcked because of their Asian brethren not because of US inaction
i mentioned north korea, because it's pure b.s. to think that operation "iraqi freedom" was for the freedom of the iraqi people, when you have the same exact situation in north korea, if not worse because they REALLY are close to having multiple nuclear bombs, and yet this administration has done nothing. those people have starved and been slaughtered for 50 years, will the u.s. be content to let them continue to do so for the next 50 years just because we arent willing to sacrifice more american blood for other people's freedom? we could possibly lose a couple thousand lives in north korea before a truce was called, is that too much pay for the freedom of 25 million north koreans? no, i dont think we would glow in the dark, the chinese aren't that stupid, theyve got too much going for them now.
calbear2000
Golden Member
Out of curiosity, what college did you graduate from?
hahahha ... im an idiot? thats the strangest thing you have heard? wow talk about iggnorance (and remember, iggnorance isnt necessarily an insult, it only means u are not informed on this subject)
communism = utopia = the perfect world
yes in theory it is great, and as someone said, it doesnt work in practice because of human nature... and in fact there are tons of communists and socialists out there ... if there was an entire country that believed in true communism, maybe it could work. but does that make people damn commies? WHY is being a communist a bad thing? u do realize although capitalism gives us all these options of what to buy, it is responsible for millions upon millions of deaths, right?
please dont call me an idiot if u dont know what u are talking about. it pisses me off when i hear people say damn commies
communism = utopia = the perfect world
yes in theory it is great, and as someone said, it doesnt work in practice because of human nature... and in fact there are tons of communists and socialists out there ... if there was an entire country that believed in true communism, maybe it could work. but does that make people damn commies? WHY is being a communist a bad thing? u do realize although capitalism gives us all these options of what to buy, it is responsible for millions upon millions of deaths, right?
please dont call me an idiot if u dont know what u are talking about. it pisses me off when i hear people say damn commies
Nitemare
Lifer
Does the Bolshevik Revolution ring a bell?
60 years of communist repression in USSR. I've read up on your boy Marx and even read Das Kapital cover to cover. I've read up on Lenin and the Russian royal family in which they shot to death. I've read about the millions of dissenters that were sent to goulags and exterminated. I've read up on cold war Russia as well as China.
Tell me something I don't know
RDWYTruckDriver
Senior member
Nice Nitemare !
Yes, you gave excellent examples of FAILED communist governments. The first fallacy of your argument is that you failed to prove that the theory of communism does not work. IMHO, people calling others names for their political ideology are truely ignorant. That in itself is a characteristic of a fascist government, not a democratic one where the people have the right in freedom of speech/choice.
The second fallacy of your argument is that North Korea is not "fvcked" because of their Asian brethren, but because of their own leadership. China has nothing but helped the North Koreans, along with South Korea, Japan, and yes, even the U.S. And China will definitely think twice about getting involved in another Korean war, especially since they lost 1 million+ men in the first one. China does not benefit from North Korea economically, but politically. If China continues its growth in economic development and continues to stride closer to a capitalistic society, IMHO, it may just turn the other cheek altogether. <--(Note- the last sentence was an opinionated statement, not a fact)
Nitemare
Lifer
Communism will never work because man is not perfect. There will always be an evil or lazy one to fvck it all up. This is a pipe dream, a xanadu or utopia that will never ever happen while there is differences in human beings. Those that advocate this pipe dream are stupid because anyone that has ever had a sociology course will tell you that communism was doomed from the start.
Had China not "helped" the North Koreans, the South Koreans would have won and there would only be one nation, Korea, which would be similar to the South Korea that we have today and Kim Jong II would not have enslaved and starved his own people. Had they not backed them even after then a UN coallition with the South Koreans might have freed North Korea
But you see, to get to the perfect utopian communist society, you have to go through this socialistic, dictatorial phase. That is where the dream of communism ends. Man is imperfect. He is always looking out for himself, his own greed, not for his neighbor. Communism requires man to look out for his neighbor, and is therefore doomed to fail. Capitalism requires man to only look out for himself. It utilizes man's greed, and for that reason, is a practical economic solution. Perfect, of course not, but anything perfect is impossible to achieve.
Media Underplays U.S. Death Toll in Iraq, Soldiers Dead Since May Is 3 Times Official Count
"Any way you look at it, the news is bad enough. According to Thursday's press and television reports, 33 U.S. soldiers have now died in combat since President Bush declared an end to the major fighting in the war on May 2. This, of course, is a tragedy for the men killed and their families, and a problem for the White House.
But actually the numbers are much worse -- and rarely reported by the media.
According to official military records, the number of U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraq since May 2 is actually 85. This includes a staggering number of non-combat deaths. Even if killed in a non-hostile action, these soldiers are no less dead, their families no less aggrieved. And it's safe to say that nearly all of these people would still be alive if they were still back in the States.
Nevertheless, the media continues to report the much lower figure of 33 as if those are the only deaths that count."
"Any way you look at it, the news is bad enough. According to Thursday's press and television reports, 33 U.S. soldiers have now died in combat since President Bush declared an end to the major fighting in the war on May 2. This, of course, is a tragedy for the men killed and their families, and a problem for the White House.
But actually the numbers are much worse -- and rarely reported by the media.
According to official military records, the number of U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraq since May 2 is actually 85. This includes a staggering number of non-combat deaths. Even if killed in a non-hostile action, these soldiers are no less dead, their families no less aggrieved. And it's safe to say that nearly all of these people would still be alive if they were still back in the States.
Nevertheless, the media continues to report the much lower figure of 33 as if those are the only deaths that count."
Where does it say that the USA is responsible to defend that American Ideal for the entire globe? And how many of our troops signed up to bring the rest of the world "freedom"? And why should the Americans have to pay with both their lives and their wallets to bring the world freedom?
I don't dispute that the men and women that died in iraq payed the greatest price and should be honored. But why should they have to pay that price?
The reason we went to war was because of an "imminent threat" and not to bring freedom to iraq. Thus far the reason the men and women that died in iraq has not been justified.
Why wheren't the people of Afghanistan granted "freedom" under this American Ideal of equality?
i have no clue why you think you dont NEED to go through socialism to get to communism ... and dont quote marx for this, he merely said that that would be the natural progression, capitalism to socialism to communism. if you want a communist society, u can skip right over socialism .... also, SOCIALSIM != DICTATORSHIP yes in the manner it has been implemented throughout history it often is a dictatorship, but one does not imply the other!!!!
and yes i already said that it wont work in practice unless there is some huge mindshift change in humanity. it is utopia. human nature prevents it. and capitalism is the easiest thing for the selfish human race, which is one reason why so many die because of capitalism. however, in our current situation, i see no other feasible economic policy. but u will notice u have not defeated a thing i said, since now that i have defeated your arguement u just say something that i already stated i agreed w/
as someone above this said, calling people damn commies or judging someone on there political beliefs is extremely ignorant. have u ever read recent socialist writings? try the International Socialist Review or the World Socialist Web Site (wsws.com IIRC). its nothing about dictatorships. so please dont judge people on a general political ideology.
and i am going away for a week so unless someone responds to this tomrrow morning/mid day , i wont see it for a week, bye
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