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Fox News story. Black is white. Upd is down. Truth is a lie.

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Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: microbial
Far from a conservative slant, Fox News has self-confirmed through their April 15th Tea Party promotion, participation, coordination and patronage--that they are in-fact a political activist organization. As such they proselytize their political campaigns through broadcast in violation of FCC rules.

I would be surprised if the FCC does not vigorously investigate and prosecute them immediately.

No other news organization has ever gone so far to violate the license of public bandwidth.

I'm interested in your commentary and its not just because it is yet another example of the liberal's disdain for the 1st amendment. Regardless of the fact that the FCC does not have regulatory powers over cable television content, I would be very interested to know which specific "FCC rules" you believe Fox has broken. Please be specific.

Probably no precedent has ever been set for this case. It would be interesting, to say the least.
.
Broadcast News organizations are not constitutionally entitled to use the public's air space for the promotion of a political outcome (=proselytizing).

Normally, this would come somewhere between:

1-No Censorship and Third-Party Ads. Where, what responsibility do broadcast stations have for 3rd party content is established--except that in this case--it is first party content--and no third party is buying air time. Fox's political content is their own.

2-Sponsorship Identification and BCRA Requirements. This would be invoked in the case were Fox news to refuse responsibility for their promotion, participation and patronage of Tea parties.
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Fuks News: we offer what makes those who think they're persecuted feel better...

You decide...

They're laughing all the way to the bank because you idiots can't stop watching them.

But, I don't watch them, or CNN or listen to talk radio, like Rush - or any of the radio or tv shows from the left or the right...

so, what bank are they making off me?

Other than getting the rank and file "righties" worked up?

/ohho, go back and cling to the Rush and Fuks tit for nourishment....
 
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Fuks News: we offer what makes those who think they're persecuted feel better...

You decide...

They're laughing all the way to the bank because you idiots can't stop watching them.

But, I don't watch them, or CNN or listen to talk radio, like Rush - or any of the radio or tv shows from the left or the right...

so, what bank are they making off me?

Other than getting the rank and file "righties" worked up?

So if you don't watch them, how do you know that they are nothing but a GOP mouth piece? You obviously have a very strong opinion about FNC, I've seen you make plenty of posts about them. How have you formed this opinion about them if you admittedly don't watch them?

Edit - Silly edit on your part, you should have edited out the part about you not watching FNC or listening to Rush, yet somehow you magically make these judgements about them.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy

What? In repeated media analysis CNN has been shown to have on fewer liberals than conservatives, and every single opinion show they have had anytime recently has had a conservative slant to it. (their headline news network had Glenn Beck before he went to Fox, they still have Lou Dobbs). To call CNN liberal is absolutely ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh, but Fox is oh so balanced. They have hours and hours and hours of moderate to batshit insane right wing programming, along with having their 'news' shows hosted by right wing people such as Brit Hume, Neil Cavuto, etc. In fact, show me even a single left leaning person on Fox. There might be one or two, but I can't think of them.

When it comes to MSM I think it's less conservative/liberal slant and more corporate slant.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: eskimospy

What? In repeated media analysis CNN has been shown to have on fewer liberals than conservatives, and every single opinion show they have had anytime recently has had a conservative slant to it. (their headline news network had Glenn Beck before he went to Fox, they still have Lou Dobbs). To call CNN liberal is absolutely ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh, but Fox is oh so balanced. They have hours and hours and hours of moderate to batshit insane right wing programming, along with having their 'news' shows hosted by right wing people such as Brit Hume, Neil Cavuto, etc. In fact, show me even a single left leaning person on Fox. There might be one or two, but I can't think of them.

When it comes to MSM I think it's less conservative/liberal slant and more corporate slant.

I'll agree with that. Just look at how they gave GWB a pass on Iraq when that was heating up, and how they're giving Obama a pass on his out of control spending.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: cubby1223
The sad thing is that Fox may actually be the most balanced. Don't get me wrong, it's not a praise of Fox, it is an insult to the other news sources. The other networks rarely give any conservatives any credibility, even if it is to give their side of the argument in a debate. MSNBC & CNN, or even Stewart/Colbert, a whole lot of others, present themselves as believing conservatives are second-class citizens.

Fox puts their conservative slant on everything, but at least they go through the effort to present the other side of the discussion, much more than other networks.

What? In repeated media analysis CNN has been shown to have on fewer liberals than conservatives, and every single opinion show they have had anytime recently has had a conservative slant to it. (their headline news network had Glenn Beck before he went to Fox, they still have Lou Dobbs). To call CNN liberal is absolutely ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh, but Fox is oh so balanced. They have hours and hours and hours of moderate to batshit insane right wing programming, along with having their 'news' shows hosted by right wing people such as Brit Hume, Neil Cavuto, etc. In fact, show me even a single left leaning person on Fox. There might be one or two, but I can't think of them.

Well they did have Alan Col





Sorry. I threw up in my own mouth a little.
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Fuks News: we offer what makes those who think they're persecuted feel better...

You decide...

They're laughing all the way to the bank because you idiots can't stop watching them.

But, I don't watch them, or CNN or listen to talk radio, like Rush - or any of the radio or tv shows from the left or the right...

so, what bank are they making off me?

Other than getting the rank and file "righties" worked up?

So if you don't watch them, how do you know that they are nothing but a GOP mouth piece? You obviously have a very strong opinion about FNC, I've seen you make plenty of posts about them. How have you formed this opinion about them if you admittedly don't watch them?

Because I have watched them, a long time ago......

Because I got tired of listening to CNN and it's reporting of Clinton's Blow Job day after day...

and this new chap popped up - and it was called Fox News...

and so I said to myself, well - a new cable outlet for news, let's have a go at that...

Then, 911!!!!!!!

and it, to me, became clear where Fuks News was about - and to be quite honest, it was about the time I signed off of any network news, be it CNN or Fox, or MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC...

Edit - Silly edit on your part, you should have edited out the part about you not watching FNC or listening to Rush, yet somehow you magically make these judgements about them.

As my above post is clear, I've seen and heard these viewpoints - and I've made one decision - a moron keeps only hearing that which they want to hear.........
 
Originally posted by: microbial
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: microbial
Far from a conservative slant, Fox News has self-confirmed through their April 15th Tea Party promotion, participation, coordination and patronage--that they are in-fact a political activist organization. As such they proselytize their political campaigns through broadcast in violation of FCC rules.

I would be surprised if the FCC does not vigorously investigate and prosecute them immediately.

No other news organization has ever gone so far to violate the license of public bandwidth.

They are cable news not broadcast - FCC wouldn't apply in this case.

FCC and cable ownership and signal beam are contentious issues subject to much less regulation, but cable news is not free of FCC regulation. Furthermore, Fox news does broadcast it's programs (at least on Sundays) over the air on public airwaves.


They aren't violating public bandwidth- it is cable. FCC cant regulate political content on cable.
 
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: microbial
Far from a conservative slant, Fox News has self-confirmed through their April 15th Tea Party promotion, participation, coordination and patronage--that they are in-fact a political activist organization. As such they proselytize their political campaigns through broadcast in violation of FCC rules.

I would be surprised if the FCC does not vigorously investigate and prosecute them immediately.

No other news organization has ever gone so far to violate the license of public bandwidth.

I'm interested in your commentary and its not just because it is yet another example of the liberal's disdain for the 1st amendment. Regardless of the fact that the FCC does not have regulatory powers over cable television content, I would be very interested to know which specific "FCC rules" you believe Fox has broken. Please be specific.

Just to be clear - then it's alright for Fox News to present what they broadcast as unbiased "news?" Even though it has been proven time and time and time and time again that it isn't?

Ever heard of the First Amendment? Get over it already. Cool. You disagree with network "sayings". Who fucking cares? Dont watch it then *shrug*

I care. Anyone who cares about the press' responsibility to the public and their integral part in this country should care. Trying to pass off what they do as journalism is disingenuous at very best.

Why do you hate America?

Then you should care that the public gets numorous points of view, whether you agree with them or not. Why do you hate the constitution?

It wouldn't bother me at all if they didn't claim to be something they weren't. If their slogan was:

Fox News: We Report, You Already Know What's Coming

or

Fox News: Fair and Balanced (but not really)

or

Fox News: Roger Ailes Will Choke Your Mother

or

Fox News: CHENEY

or

Fox News: Jesus Would Watch Us

or

Fox News: All Palin, All the Time

or

Fox News: News Rhymes With Jews and We Blame Them

or

Fox News: The Truck Nuts of 24 Hour News Networks

But "Fair and Balanced?" Please.

Why do you hate the troops?

Oh I see. Kind of like CNN is "The Most Trusted Name In News"? How is it a network in the number two slot by a large margin is the most trusted? Most trusted by who? Or how about their sloagan "The Best Political Team on Television". Wahahahahaha are you kidding me? Is this the same "trusted name in news" that planted a softball question with an audience member during Democratic debates? Is it the same "trusted name in news" that failed to disclose featured commentator JamesCarville?s ties to the Clinton campaign prior to the democratic round table discussions, passing it off as non biased? You mean the same unbiased network who during a youtube call in segment rejected a question from Florida's gov (GOP) saying "he has regular access to politicians", and instead chose a video from Washington insider Grover Norquist? You mean that one?

Please. Wipe the soot from your eyes.
 
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Fuks News: we offer what makes those who think they're persecuted feel better...

You decide...

They're laughing all the way to the bank because you idiots can't stop watching them.

But, I don't watch them, or CNN or listen to talk radio, like Rush - or any of the radio or tv shows from the left or the right...

so, what bank are they making off me?

Other than getting the rank and file "righties" worked up?

So if you don't watch them, how do you know that they are nothing but a GOP mouth piece? You obviously have a very strong opinion about FNC, I've seen you make plenty of posts about them. How have you formed this opinion about them if you admittedly don't watch them?

Because I have watched them, a long time ago......

Because I got tired of listening to CNN and it's reporting of Clinton's Blow Job day after day...

and this new chap popped up - and it was called Fox News...

and so I said to myself, well - a new cable outlet for news, let's have a go at that...

Then, 911!!!!!!!

and it, to me, became clear where Fuks News was about - and to be quite honest, it was about the time I signed off of any network news, be it CNN or Fox, or MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC...

Edit - Silly edit on your part, you should have edited out the part about you not watching FNC or listening to Rush, yet somehow you magically make these judgements about them.

As my above post is clear, I've seen and heard these viewpoints - and I've made one decision - a moron keeps only hearing that which they want to hear.........

lulz, so let me get this straight, you haven't watched FNC in roughly 7 1/2 years, yet you are constantly complaining about them? Sounds like you need to move on.

BTW, you completely contradict yourself with your last point. You say that only morons keep hearing that which they want to hear, yet you supposedly stopped watching FNC over 7 years ago because it was something that you didn't want to hear.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Phokus
I honestly believe the world would be a better place if all republicans just dropped dead right now.

I believe you just earned your self a two week vacation for blatant trolling.

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn

THANK YOU RED DAWN.

Heh, yeah that was over the top. Now if he'd limited it to Neocons...THEN it would have been nothing but a true statement. 😎

Well, go somewhere you are your kind can wallow in your GOP hatred *shrug*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/
www.democrat.com/
www.democratsforum.com/
www.allthingsdemocrat.com/
angrydemocratforum.blogspot.com/

A swing and a miss!

I have nothing against Republicans. I'm actually closer to the origin of that party than the Democrats. I also oppose the Democrats on numerous points, and seldom give them a vote (except to oppose certain radical, fringe elements of the Republican party when absolutely necessary).

Neocons, however, are the single greatest threat to world peace since McCarthyism.
 
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Phokus
I honestly believe the world would be a better place if all republicans just dropped dead right now.

I believe you just earned your self a two week vacation for blatant trolling.

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn

THANK YOU RED DAWN.

Heh, yeah that was over the top. Now if he'd limited it to Neocons...THEN it would have been nothing but a true statement. 😎

Well, go somewhere you are your kind can wallow in your GOP hatred *shrug*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/
www.democrat.com/
www.democratsforum.com/
www.allthingsdemocrat.com/
angrydemocratforum.blogspot.com/

A swing and a miss!

I have nothing against Republicans. I'm actually closer to the origin of that party than the Democrats. I also oppose the Democrats on numerous points, and seldom give them a vote (except to oppose certain radical, fringe elements of the Republican party when absolutely necessary).

Neocons, however, are the single greatest threat to world peace since McCarthyism.

Then I read it wrong. :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

I have nothing against Republicans. I'm actually closer to the origin of that party than the Democrats. I also oppose the Democrats on numerous points, and seldom give them a vote (except to oppose certain radical, fringe elements of the Republican party when absolutely necessary).

I don't think you should say you sometimes oppose a group to prove your lack of bias; what if they're right? The thing is just whether you would oppose them if they're wrong.

The problem with using the standard of opposing them is that it implies that those who agree with them don't have good reasons, but rather it's proof that they're biased.

That's a false and smothering pressure to have to have a sort of '50-50' set of opinions regardless of the fact, as if simply having 50-50 opinions is proof you're 'fair'.

Neocons, however, are the single greatest threat to world peace since McCarthyism.

Surprisingly, I somewhat disagree with you here - and even on McCarthyism. The reason is because they're symtpoms of larger issues.

On Neocons, ask this - how much of a threat are revolutionary communists who want to militarily overthrow the US government? Not much, because while their ideology might be dangerous if it had power supporting it, it doesn't, and they pose little more risk than annoying you with a rally. Similarly, Neocons themselves could be just Dick Cheney sittting with them on a park bench muttering about the commies in power and no one cares what they have to say - it's the fact that there are major powers who are ready and willing to support them that's the real problem, as in, if it weren't the Neocons, it'd be some other group providing a similar agenda, and the real problem is how much power there is aligned for that type of agenda. The military-industrial complex, the radical right think tanks, the right-wing media supporting them, and so on.

Every modern president is under pressure to follow something like a Neocon agenda. Some follow more willlingly than others.

Rarely, as with Eisenhower in his farewell speech after 8 years of largely following their agenda, or JFK after the Bay of Pigs, you see presidents who directly oppose them.

As long as the global political structure rewards the pursuit of power and empire, the problem will exist.

And at times, there is a choice among the lesser of evils - the US behaving imperialistically, of another nation doing so in the vacuum if we don't.

While it's easy to see the PNAC doctrine call for the US to dominate the world and concluce that PNAC are an evil cabal who can make the US do that, that's not quite accurate, rather they are happening to push an agenda which has too much support because of everything from the military-industrial complex to an American populace who is too pro-war, too easily manipulated, too ignorant, too complacent.

Similarly, McCarthyism existed because there were big ijnterests in our nation who were shut out of power by FDR's popularity, and the Republicans who would represent them found that the line of 'protecting America from the traitors in our own government and the evil abroad' would sell to the public and return them to power, as it did in 1952 after weakening the democrats after WWII. The powerful interests who wanted political power back are why McCarthyism had powerful backing.

Note in both cases that the actual players - McCarthy, Dick Cheney, etc. - are almost incidental compared to the fact that there are powerful forces - massive sums of money to be made - creating the pressures for those people to get support and be able to get power for those agendas.

Get rid of the Neocons, and you might make a dent to their agenda, but the situation will still have powerful forces pressuring that direction.

What we need to do is to fix the underlying problem - strengthen the UN so that the problem every nation faces of having people who want to pursue power aggressively and violently have less incentive to do so, change the legal doctrine saying US corporations are legal persons giving them all kinds of inappropriate rights to fight the people's interests and agendas, fix campaigin financing that lets the monied agenda be too influential.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: cubby1223
The sad thing is that Fox may actually be the most balanced. Don't get me wrong, it's not a praise of Fox, it is an insult to the other news sources. The other networks rarely give any conservatives any credibility, even if it is to give their side of the argument in a debate. MSNBC & CNN, or even Stewart/Colbert, a whole lot of others, present themselves as believing conservatives are second-class citizens.

Fox puts their conservative slant on everything, but at least they go through the effort to present the other side of the discussion, much more than other networks.

What? In repeated media analysis CNN has been shown to have on fewer liberals than conservatives, and every single opinion show they have had anytime recently has had a conservative slant to it. (their headline news network had Glenn Beck before he went to Fox, they still have Lou Dobbs). To call CNN liberal is absolutely ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh, but Fox is oh so balanced. They have hours and hours and hours of moderate to batshit insane right wing programming, along with having their 'news' shows hosted by right wing people such as Brit Hume, Neil Cavuto, etc. In fact, show me even a single left leaning person on Fox. There might be one or two, but I can't think of them.

Let's see....

Alan Colmes
Bob Beckel
Susan Estrich
Juan Williams
Greta Van Susteren
Geraldo Rivera

I would agree that Hannity/Beck is just awful viewing, but they are leading their time slot. I know this will be hard to swallow for a lot of you, but O' Reilly has more left wing views on his show than most shows on MSNBC. I mean if Beck and Hannity are batshit insane, then Olbermann is in the upper atmosphere of bat guano.
 
Fox News is a political activist organization vis-a-vis Tea Parties leading up to and on 15April09.

Their primary goal regarding "FNC tea parties" was neither to gather, or report, or even analyze such events. Fox news's primary goal was to lead and participate in these tea parties as part of a political agenda.

I've sent my letter of complaint to the FCC. As clearly people are aware, cable news is less regulated due to ownership of pipeline--but they are not exempt from FCC regulation with regard to their license as a news broadcaster--cable or public airwave. I suggest everyone make their complaints known to the FCC.
 
Originally posted by: microbial
Fox News is a political activist organization vis-a-vis Tea Parties leading up to and on 15April09.

Their primary goal regarding "FNC tea parties" was neither to gather, or report, or even analyze such events. Fox news's primary goal was to lead and participate in these tea parties as part of a political agenda.

I've sent my letter of complaint to the FCC. As clearly people are aware, cable news is less regulated due to ownership of pipeline--but they are not exempt from FCC regulation with regard to their license as a news broadcaster--cable or public airwave. I suggest everyone make their complaints known to the FCC.

the government does not license news broadcasters - they license people to broadcast over the air.

What is it with this insist behavior about the government regulating content?

Should i press to have Comedy Central's broadcast license revoked do to the obvious bias of the Colbert Report, and the Daily Show?

 
Originally posted by: microbial
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: microbial
Far from a conservative slant, Fox News has self-confirmed through their April 15th Tea Party promotion, participation, coordination and patronage--that they are in-fact a political activist organization. As such they proselytize their political campaigns through broadcast in violation of FCC rules.

I would be surprised if the FCC does not vigorously investigate and prosecute them immediately.

No other news organization has ever gone so far to violate the license of public bandwidth.

I'm interested in your commentary and its not just because it is yet another example of the liberal's disdain for the 1st amendment. Regardless of the fact that the FCC does not have regulatory powers over cable television content, I would be very interested to know which specific "FCC rules" you believe Fox has broken. Please be specific.

I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm talking about. I have nary a clue as to what specific "FCC rules" that Fox has broken which would warrant my desire to have them prosecuted. Those "rules" are a mere figmant of my imagination anyway. I simply don't like Fox's editorial slant, don't give a shit about the 1st amendment and hope to have them silenced.

Fixed.

 
Originally posted by: microbial
Fox News is a political activist organization vis-a-vis Tea Parties leading up to and on 15April09.

Their primary goal regarding "FNC tea parties" was neither to gather, or report, or even analyze such events. Fox news's primary goal was to lead and participate in these tea parties as part of a political agenda.

I've sent my letter of complaint to the FCC. As clearly people are aware, cable news is less regulated due to ownership of pipeline--but they are not exempt from FCC regulation with regard to their license as a news broadcaster--cable or public airwave. I suggest everyone make their complaints known to the FCC.

We should take this one step further and call for government regulation over the content of our newspapers. I'm sick and tired of liberal rags like the Detroit Free Press constantly proselytizing their liberal campaigns. They, like Fox News, should be prosecuted as their distribution method (our public roads) is a scarce public resource.
 
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
Bob Beckel

Fair enough that Fox sometimes has some liberal guests included, but the format is still right-wing. Take the Beckel segments.

The ones I've seen when checking for this post, he's invited as one of two guests, such as one with the other guest being from the Republican party.

Then you have the right-wing Fox person moderating someone on the right and somoeone on the left - two to one, with the moderation advantage on the right.

So for example I just watched a segment with Bill O'Reilly hosting, and while Beckel got a few points in - and they were hardly all that liberal as he said he's against any prosecution for Bush and Cheney for any torture issues, the argument between him and O'Reilly was that he's for a pardon for Bush and Cheney while O'Reilly says that's wrong because it implies they did something wrong - and O'Reilly was as usual the 'loud guy' frequently preventing Becket from talking. Not exactly 'balanced'.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
Bob Beckel

Fair enough that Fox sometimes has some liberal guests included, but the format is still right-wing. Take the Beckel segments.

The ones I've seen when checking for this post, he's invited as one of two guests, such as one with the other guest being from the Republican party.

Then you have the right-wing Fox person moderating someone on the right and somoeone on the left - two to one, with the moderation advantage on the right.

So for example I just watched a segment with Bill O'Reilly hosting, and while Beckel got a few points in - and they were hardly all that liberal as he said he's against any prosecution for Bush and Cheney for any torture issues, the argument between him and O'Reilly was that he's for a pardon for Bush and Cheney while O'Reilly says that's wrong because it implies they did something wrong - and O'Reilly was as usual the 'loud guy' frequently preventing Becket from talking. Not exactly 'balanced'.

Neither is CNN. Or MSNBC. All the major networks' slogans can be ripped apart. I posted earlier about it. I dont understand why you and others have a problem with right-leaning journalism. Of course its known Im a right winger, but I enjoy news from both sides. I often find the same story reported on by two different networks to be rather nice...it doesnt mean either side is wrong, it means the view is different. Different != wrong.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

I have nothing against Republicans. I'm actually closer to the origin of that party than the Democrats. I also oppose the Democrats on numerous points, and seldom give them a vote (except to oppose certain radical, fringe elements of the Republican party when absolutely necessary).

I don't think you should say you sometimes oppose a group to prove your lack of bias; what if they're right? The thing is just whether you would oppose them if they're wrong.

The problem with using the standard of opposing them is that it implies that those who agree with them don't have good reasons, but rather it's proof that they're biased.

That's a false and smothering pressure to have to have a sort of '50-50' set of opinions regardless of the fact, as if simply having 50-50 opinions is proof you're 'fair'.

Sorry, have no clue what you're saying here. Not being rude, I just cannot unravel it.

What I said is that generally I only vote Democrat when the opposition candidate is a neocon, in an effort to block any power gains by that particular voting block which I consider the epitome of evil politics in our time.

I didn't say anything about 50/50s, voting republican any particular amount of time, how much I vote independent, or anything else. I didn't support any particular party that I'm aware of in that post. I merely pointed out that you can't call me a Dem since I very seldom vote for them, and disagree with a number of their platforms.

Neocons, however, are the single greatest threat to world peace since McCarthyism.

Surprisingly, I somewhat disagree with you here - and even on McCarthyism. The reason is because they're symtpoms of larger issues.

On Neocons, ask this - how much of a threat are revolutionary communists who want to militarily overthrow the US government? Not much, because while their ideology might be dangerous if it had power supporting it, it doesn't, and they pose little more risk than annoying you with a rally. Similarly, Neocons themselves could be just Dick Cheney sittting with them on a park bench muttering about the commies in power and no one cares what they have to say - it's the fact that there are major powers who are ready and willing to support them that's the real problem, as in, if it weren't the Neocons, it'd be some other group providing a similar agenda, and the real problem is how much power there is aligned for that type of agenda. The military-industrial complex, the radical right think tanks, the right-wing media supporting them, and so on.

Every modern president is under pressure to follow something like a Neocon agenda. Some follow more willlingly than others.

Rarely, as with Eisenhower in his farewell speech after 8 years of largely following their agenda, or JFK after the Bay of Pigs, you see presidents who directly oppose them.

As long as the global political structure rewards the pursuit of power and empire, the problem will exist.

And at times, there is a choice among the lesser of evils - the US behaving imperialistically, of another nation doing so in the vacuum if we don't.

While it's easy to see the PNAC doctrine call for the US to dominate the world and concluce that PNAC are an evil cabal who can make the US do that, that's not quite accurate, rather they are happening to push an agenda which has too much support because of everything from the military-industrial complex to an American populace who is too pro-war, too easily manipulated, too ignorant, too complacent.

Similarly, McCarthyism existed because there were big ijnterests in our nation who were shut out of power by FDR's popularity, and the Republicans who would represent them found that the line of 'protecting America from the traitors in our own government and the evil abroad' would sell to the public and return them to power, as it did in 1952 after weakening the democrats after WWII. The powerful interests who wanted political power back are why McCarthyism had powerful backing.

Note in both cases that the actual players - McCarthy, Dick Cheney, etc. - are almost incidental compared to the fact that there are powerful forces - massive sums of money to be made - creating the pressures for those people to get support and be able to get power for those agendas.

Get rid of the Neocons, and you might make a dent to their agenda, but the situation will still have powerful forces pressuring that direction.

What we need to do is to fix the underlying problem - strengthen the UN so that the problem every nation faces of having people who want to pursue power aggressively and violently have less incentive to do so, change the legal doctrine saying US corporations are legal persons giving them all kinds of inappropriate rights to fight the people's interests and agendas, fix campaigin financing that lets the monied agenda be too influential.

Ask yourself this. Of the numerous fringe groups which have existed in America, which ones have gained significant government power - in fact being elected to hold the executive branch of the federal government for 8 years. As far as I know only the neocons have achieved power, and that alone qualifies them as the greatest threat.

Now, it is true that it's actually the underlying platform, and not the political group itself, which poses the threat. However, taken individually the platform points are obnoxious, but not wholly damning. It is only that they're all combined into one great big swirling tub of evil that makes them public enemy #1.

Other nations can do whatever other nations do...we have no control over them, nor should we have. If someone gets out of hand and directly oppresses another sovereign, AND we are asked to help the victims, THEN sure we can do something. Otherwise to each their own. That goes as much for us as any other nation. Or rather, it should.

I'm not opposed to most of what you say, though I'm not a big UN supporter. But while we fight the good fight against those core problems, we also need to get rid of those who profit most from them and act to protect them: ie the neocons (among others).
 
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
I would agree that Hannity/Beck is just awful viewing, but they are leading their time slot. I know this will be hard to swallow for a lot of you, but O' Reilly has more left wing views on his show than most shows on MSNBC. I mean if Beck and Hannity are batshit insane, then Olbermann is in the upper atmosphere of bat guano.

Hannity and Beck are insane however I do not find this with the case of Olbermann. Just because they're on completely opposite ends of the spectrum doesn't they're both crazy.
 
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage

I would agree that Hannity/Beck is just awful viewing, but they are leading their time slot.

That's because batshit crazies need reinforcement for their batshit craziness. 😛

I mean if Beck and Hannity are batshit insane, then Olbermann is in the upper atmosphere of bat guano.

Passionate, even manic, doesn't equal crazy. The difference is their relative proximity to reality, which is easily determined by fact checking. Hannity and Beck ARE batshit crazy.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
Bob Beckel

Fair enough that Fox sometimes has some liberal guests included, but the format is still right-wing. Take the Beckel segments.

The ones I've seen when checking for this post, he's invited as one of two guests, such as one with the other guest being from the Republican party.

Then you have the right-wing Fox person moderating someone on the right and somoeone on the left - two to one, with the moderation advantage on the right.

So for example I just watched a segment with Bill O'Reilly hosting, and while Beckel got a few points in - and they were hardly all that liberal as he said he's against any prosecution for Bush and Cheney for any torture issues, the argument between him and O'Reilly was that he's for a pardon for Bush and Cheney while O'Reilly says that's wrong because it implies they did something wrong - and O'Reilly was as usual the 'loud guy' frequently preventing Becket from talking. Not exactly 'balanced'.

Neither is CNN. Or MSNBC. All the major networks' slogans can be ripped apart. I posted earlier about it. I dont understand why you and others have a problem with right-leaning journalism. Of course its known Im a right winger, but I enjoy news from both sides. I often find the same story reported on by two different networks to be rather nice...it doesnt mean either side is wrong, it means the view is different. Different != wrong.

My agenda is 'truth'. There are different sides of truths, and it's great to have them get aired to compare.

For example, take the TARP package. There are plenty of points of view on it, because it's hardly an exact science, and people have different opinions. That's fine.

What's not so fine is for someone who is trying to spread propaganda, not presenting an attempt at 'truth', to get aired.

And IMO, Fox is very often on the side of pushing invalid views - not that often simply posting things that are wrong, but using things like omission and cherry picking to distort.

It's one small example, bur remember the survey done of media consumers to see who got the basic facts around the Iraq war wrong the most - Fox viewers did by a long shot.

For what it's worh, I think CNN is more right-wing than left-wing, and while MSNBC has increased liberal content like Olbermann, it has no shortage of right-wing history.

Remember how they cancelled their top-rated show, Phil Donahue, because they did not want any liberal/anti-war content, even after forcing it to invite 2 pro-war for every anti-.

Frankly, IMO the mainstream media does well at the news that fits in its culture, and does get some great occassional investigative scoops, but a whole lot is un- or mis-covered.

I've mentioned sources that regularly get it right - unfortunately, they don't get all that much of the public's attention.

Glenn Greenwald, Rachel Maddow, Thom Hartmann, Angi Coiro, John Rothmann, Paul Krugman, David Cay Johnston, Naomi Klein, Joseph Stieglitz, Farshi Manjooo.

These are some I stand by (Coiro is a recent addition, based on limited data).
 
Originally posted by: Tab3076
Originally posted by: JohnnyGage
I would agree that Hannity/Beck is just awful viewing, but they are leading their time slot. I know this will be hard to swallow for a lot of you, but O' Reilly has more left wing views on his show than most shows on MSNBC. I mean if Beck and Hannity are batshit insane, then Olbermann is in the upper atmosphere of bat guano.

Hannity and Beck are insane however I do not find this with the case of Olbermann. Just because they're on completely opposite ends of the spectrum doesn't they're both crazy.

Okayyyy....
 
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