Four More Years? Of This?

[K1052]

Nobody is driving the banks of out business, its a decision they made.

Isn't that the basis of a free market society? Company A goes out of business, which opens an opportunity for Company B.

Letting all the banks fail at once would have wiped out the economy. The entire economy.

 

[Texashiker]

Letting all the banks fail at once would have wiped out the economy. The entire economy.

That is nothing but fear mongering.

The economy is not based on banks.

 

[K1052]

That is nothing but fear mongering.

The economy is not based on banks.

Who issues lines of credit for businesses? The only alternative would be commercial paper (which banks are still involved in) and that market would evaporate overnight with cash flooding into treasuries, gold, or any other perceived safe harbor out of everything else.

Otherwise healthy companies in dozens of unrelated industries would fail because they can't access money they need to operate.

 

[Texashiker]

Who issues lines of credit for businesses? The only alternative would be commercial paper (which banks are still involved in) and that market would evaporate overnight with cash flooding into treasuries, gold, or any other perceived safe harbor out of everything else.

Otherwise healthy companies in dozens of unrelated industries would fail because they can't access money they need to operate.

Could we imagine a society based on what we can afford, instead of how much we can borrow?

 

[buckshot24]

$4million/min? We need to repeal the Bush/Obama tax cuts and tax capital gains as regular income, stat! We can't afford to cuddle our billionaires one minute more.

So you want LESS capital investment? This is going to help the economy?

 

[jhbball]

That is nothing but fear mongering.

The economy is not based on banks.

LOL.

 

[Texashiker]

LOL.

Do you have anything of value to contribute?

 

[K1052]

Could we imagine a society based on what we can afford, instead of how much we can borrow?

Companies need dependable access to short term borrowing in order to operate. I'm talking about healthy mammoth companies that have profits and revenues in the billions. They still need the short term float to smooth out the cash flow and meet certain obligations that come due all at once.

 

[Pens1566]

Do you have anything of value to contribute?

His post, and really anything north of/including ascii art, would bring more to the thread than you have.

 

[Texashiker]

Companies need dependable access to short term borrowing in order to operate. I'm talking about healthy mammoth companies that have profits and revenues in the billions. They still need the short term float to smooth out the cash flow and meet certain obligations that come due all at once.

That is part of the problem with our mindset on banks, we make excuses to have them around.

Could we imagine the horror of what would happen if a few banks went under, the nation as we know it would collapse, china would invade, and the great republic would come to an end.

Let the banks collapse, someone or something will step up to take their place.

Filling empty markets is one of the corners to a capitalist society.

Bank A collapses, Bank B steps forward to take its place. That is the way the free enterprise system works.

Let the banks collapse, credit unions are waiting in the wings to fill the gap.

 

[rudder]

This country is fucked. No one is willing to pay higher taxes and no one wants anything cut.

I bet if all of the people who have no federal tax burden (or make money by filing tax returns) had to actually pay the federal government... there would be a shit ton more outrage. But to these people nothing is broken so you have faux support of their candidate who promises to make others pay while the budget is increased.

 

[Texashiker]

I bet if all of the people who have no federal tax burden (or make money by filing tax returns) had to actually pay the federal government... there would be a shit ton more outrage. But to these people nothing is broken so you have faux support of their candidate who promises to make others pay while the budget is increased.

My wife and I know a low income family who have 3 small children. On average they get back around $7,000 - $9,000 on income taxes. Which is a lot more then they pay in.

To that family, the tax system is great.

To my wife and I on the other hand, we have to pay in just about every year.

To my wife and I, the tax system is broke, because we are supporting families that have more children then they can afford.

 

[Munky]

Companies need dependable access to short term borrowing in order to operate. I'm talking about healthy mammoth companies that have profits and revenues in the billions. They still need the short term float to smooth out the cash flow and meet certain obligations that come due all at once.

Which companies would that be? Name some companies, other than insolvent financial institutions, which depend on short term borrowing.

 

[jstern01]

Because throwing money at a problem always fixes the root cause.

There are other long term fixes, such as what iceland did - http://americanlivewire.com/world-economic-news-icelands-economy-now-growing-fas/

They went bankrupt... sure we could do that, but unlike Iceland it would destroy most of the worlds economies with it.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/10/iceland_goes_ba.html

 

[jstern01]

Which companies would that be? Name some companies, other than insolvent financial institutions, which depend on short term borrowing.

GE, FedEx, Apple, Monsanto, Johnson and Johnson, UPS.. are just a few that use short term borrowing. Especially for making payroll and dealing with highly volatile costs like fuel, raw materials and such.

 

[jstern01]

My wife and I know a low income family who have 3 small children. On average they get back around $7,000 - $9,000 on income taxes. Which is a lot more then they pay in.

To that family, the tax system is great.

To my wife and I on the other hand, we have to pay in just about every year.

To my wife and I, the tax system is broke, because we are supporting families that have more children then they can afford.

So what is the solution? Force them to have abortions/sterilization, or let them starve. The EIC credit which is what you are talking about is probably the reason the get money back. But for most people in this situation, they struggle day to day, often working 2 or 3 jobs to meet basic needs, they are call the working poor for a reason.

 

[K1052]

Which companies would that be? Name some companies, other than insolvent financial institutions, which depend on short term borrowing.

Caterpillar, Metlife, MacDonalds, Ford, Verizon, Microsoft, Proctor and Gamble, GE, etc

Basically everyone of a certain size needs access to substantial revolving credit lines or to be able to sell commercial paper.

 

[Texashiker]

GE, FedEx, Apple, Monsanto, Johnson and Johnson, UPS.. are just a few that use short term borrowing. Especially for making payroll and dealing with highly volatile costs like fuel, raw materials and such.

There is no doubt that lending is important to the economy, but why should the government continue to bailout failed business practices?

Let the bad banks fail, something like a credit union will take their place.

So what is the solution? Force them to have abortions/sterilization, or let them starve. The EIC credit which is what you are talking about is probably the reason the get money back. But for most people in this situation, they struggle day to day, often working 2 or 3 jobs to meet basic needs, they are call the working poor for a reason.

A flat tax, so everyone pays their fair share.

 

[Munky]

GE, FedEx, Apple, Monsanto, Johnson and Johnson, UPS.. are just a few that use short term borrowing. Especially for making payroll and dealing with highly volatile costs like fuel, raw materials and such.

You have a source for that info? Apple, with its massive profits, needs borrowing to meet payroll obligations?

 

[child of wonder]

I bet if all of the people who have no federal tax burden (or make money by filing tax returns) had to actually pay the federal government... there would be a shit ton more outrage. But to these people nothing is broken so you have faux support of their candidate who promises to make others pay while the budget is increased.

I agree. Even a modest 1% effective tax rate rather than -10% would get some people concerned about where their money is going.

 

[jstern01]

You have a source for that info? Apple, with its massive profits, needs borrowing to meet payroll obligations?

Read their 10Q its all in there. And I mention other reasons for borrowing besides payroll, please read the entire message, don't cherry pick.

Jim

 

[K1052]

Bank B steps forward to take its place. That is the way the free enterprise system works.

Let the banks collapse, credit unions are waiting in the wings to fill the gap.

There would have been no "Bank B" is what you are failing to grasp. Once the big four go down you'll have an unmanageable run on the remaining institutions which will all also fail (provided they aren't killed by CDS debacle first).

Credit unions are in no way a replacement for commercial banking and I question the sanity of anyone who says they are.

 

[chucky2]

This country is fucked. No one is willing to pay higher taxes and no one wants anything cut.

That's not true. I want higher taxes for anyone living above the poverty line. I just don't want them until the government can prove it can live within say a $2T per year means. Them raising this $2T amount to $4T and then saying, oh, we can live with this means, now give us our tax increase, doesn't cut it.

Show they can live within a budget. When they can do that, then we can talk more cok, er, money that will go towards paying down the national/state/local debts. Until then, don't want to hear about tax increases for anyone. Tax increases without the Pols doing their job just means the Pols won't (not can't) do their job and are looking for others to be the scapegoat. F that. They were elected to do their job, do it, get it done, stop making excuses.

Chuck

 

[Darwin333]

LOL, I like how you three can't even read.

>admits that GDP is growing
>federal deficits estimated to be cut in half
>recession shown to be over

Also:
>recession ending corresponds to stimulus.

That scam has always bothered me.

GDP grew only because we borrowed and spent a shitload of money that we didn't have. That is not true economic growth, we could have printed a much larger rise in GDP had we only borrowed and spent another trillion dollars.... That isn't even the bad news, the bad news is that as you pull that deficit spending out the economy (GDP) must contract by at least that much. Isn't the left the side that is always arguing that .gov spending nets an economic benefit of greater than the amount spent? If that is indeed true it will work the other way around as well.

 

[child of wonder]

That's not true. I want higher taxes for anyone living above the poverty line. I just don't want them until the government can prove it can live within say a $2T per year means. Them raising this $2T amount to $4T and then saying, oh, we can live with this means, now give us our tax increase, doesn't cut it.

Show they can live within a budget. When they can do that, then we can talk more cok, er, money that will go towards paying down the national/state/local debts. Until then, don't want to hear about tax increases for anyone. Tax increases without the Pols doing their job just means the Pols won't (not can't) do their job and are looking for others to be the scapegoat. F that. They were elected to do their job, do it, get it done, stop making excuses.

Chuck

Yes, we need cuts to go along with tax increases.

However, how do we balance the budget without doing both simultaneously?

We would need a combined $1.4 trillion in cuts to defense, discretionary spending, and mandatory programs to balance the budget without any increases in revenue.