found my next TV

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Text

:Q

 

[Blurry]

If it's anything like the Sony ZX-1 LED LCD TV, then this TV will also be a major PITA.

Since specs haven't been released yet, I won't comment on the Samsung TV but I'll say this much about "thin" LED LCD TVs.

They are so thin that they have literally no input connections - you have to buy some kind of HDMI hub or else you're SOL.

At least that's what the ZX-1 is like.

But hey, it does make everyone go "WOW SO SEXY"

 

[Oyeve]

Looks sweet but also looks like my fan will blow it over!

 

[Noubourne]

At some point, people will start to realize that you don't watch TV from the side.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
At some point, people will start to realize that you don't watch TV from the side.

Yeah, I don't see the point of the thinness competition anymore. Once you can wall mount it and the display is thin enough to shove up against a wall and have the screen just a few inches in front of that wall, then what's the point of shaving another inch or two from that?

Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

 

[sivart]

Now if I could find a thin TV about 20" or so that wouldn't require any rear ventilation, that would be nice. I could mount it outside my theater room in the wall (flush with the wall) with a 'now playing' sign above it

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
At some point, people will start to realize that you don't watch TV from the side.

it's the fucking interior designers and the wives that buy into that crap.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I don't care about the thin; LED/LCD has a definite advantage in contrast, since they can fine tune the backlighting almost pixel-by-pixel to give incredible blacks without dimming the highlights.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
At some point, people will start to realize that you don't watch TV from the side.

well, in a small apt, it becomes almost like furniture or artwork. aesthetics does matter somewhat.

the other reasons include excellent image quality, LED backlit means even lighting and lower power consumption.

 

[Muadib]

Has anyone seen anything on the price yet?

 

[Patrick Wolf]

No specs. No prices. No deal.

 

[JackBurton]

It is a gorgeous TV however there is no local dimming. Here's a thread of a guy that actually has the B7100.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
It is a gorgeous TV however there is no local dimming. Here's a thread of a guy that actually has the B7100.

Unfortunate. Local dimming is one of the things that caught my attention about LED/LCD when they started discussing the technology.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: JackBurton
It is a gorgeous TV however there is no local dimming. Here's a thread of a guy that actually has the B7100.

Unfortunate. Local dimming is one of the things that caught my attention about LED/LCD when they started discussing the technology.

Hey, haven't I seen you somewhere before?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
I don't care about the thin; LED/LCD has a definite advantage in contrast, since they can fine tune the backlighting almost pixel-by-pixel to give incredible blacks without dimming the highlights.

It's not anywhere near pixel-by-pixel yet.

It's still local dimming (the way it's been done), which means an area can be dimmed. The display is divided up into however many LED's it has in the backlighting. Take a look at this LED backlight, and if you count them there are 30 rows and 45 columns which gives you a total of 1350 LEDs. A 1080P display has 2,073,600 pixels. Take 2,073,600/1350 and you get 1536 pixels per LED on that display.

In addition to not being able to change pixel-by-pixel backlighting levels, you also suffer from backlight bleeding. LED's are not nearly as bad as CCFL's, but it's still there.

LED's can provide higher contrast, but if you know anything about contrast ratios they really don't mean much (because there is no standard test method for them that is industry wide, and can be fudged Text). What matters much more than contrast (or resolution for that matter) are the accuracy of colors and black levels.

EDIT: Apparently these tv's don't even use local dimming. That means that the only benefits to the LED backlight in these are they can get brighter. Although, I'll take black levels over brightness any day of the week.

Oh and plasma has been able to do the "local dimming" type stuff for a while, and it can do it on a pixel-by-pixel level (or much more so then any LED/LCD display can). It really is too bad that people buy into this whole contrast ratio/brightness game, because LCD's are still catching up to plasma PQ. LCD definitely out-marketed plasma, which is why we now really only have Panny making quality plasmas anymore (and Pioneer, until they close shop/run out of inventory).

 

[Koing]

I don't get why the fuss over ultra thin lcds/ plasma screens? As long as I can hang it on the wall and it doesn't stick out more then say 5-8inches tops thats good enough for me. I'm not going to notice an extra 3-7inches of extra space in front of my tv...

I give it that it does look cool but as logn as I can hang it on the wall thats good enough for me.

Koing

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Koing
I don't get why the fuss over ultra thin lcds/ plasma screens? As long as I can hang it on the wall and it doesn't stick out more then say 5-8inches tops thats good enough for me. I'm not going to notice an extra 3-7inches of extra space in front of my tv...

I give it that it does look cool but as logn as I can hang it on the wall thats good enough for me.

Koing

Here's the simple reason:




You're not a wife

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

EDIT: Apparently these tv's don't even use local dimming. That means that the only benefits to the LED backlight in these are they can get brighter. Although, I'll take black levels over brightness any day of the week.

and it consumes even less power than an LCD, which means even less power than a plasma.
and i output from PC a lot, and I think we can all agree that LCD's are much more suited to display PC than plasmas.

don't get me wrong, i love my panasonic.
but the image retention after a long rock band session scares me. the thinness and the lower power consumption is just icing on the cake.
and it is gf/wife approved.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

EDIT: Apparently these tv's don't even use local dimming. That means that the only benefits to the LED backlight in these are they can get brighter. Although, I'll take black levels over brightness any day of the week.

and it consumes even less power than an LCD, which means even less power than a plasma.
and i output from PC a lot, and I think we can all agree that LCD's are much more suited to display PC than plasmas.

don't get me wrong, i love my panasonic.
but the image retention after a long rock band session scares me. the thinness and the lower power consumption is just icing on the cake.
and it is gf/wife approved.

The debate about power consumption of LED backlights (in current production models) is still an open discussion. AFAIK LED sets, have about the same consumption as CCFL sets currently (once again, current production models). In the future it's up to a 10% savings, which means once a year or less it's power consumption is "free" when compared to a normal CCFL. Depending on how much it's used that might not amount to much. The power savings are great and all, but I'll take accuracy of colors and inky blacks over that any day.

LCD's are better for PC monitors, mainly due to the IR and static images pc's usually display. They are also cheaper then plasma at sub 40 inch sizes.

Realistically the PQ rules my roost. I can make changes in my use of it to prevent IR, and negate increased power consumption.

Now that I said all that, if thats what you like and want :beer:! This is one of those "what is best for YOU" situations, and I am just debating the LCD (LED/CCFL)/plasma pros and cons with ya

 

[rivethead]

I'm all about PQ too but.......

I was looking at a Samsung LCD and a Panny Plasma side by side at a store and the heat being put off by the Panny was incredible. While the Samsung LCD was warm, the Panny felt almost like a damn space heater. For comparison, I went and looked at a Samsung Plasma too and it was pretty darn hot as well.

Not an ideal situation for an upstairs game room in a house in Austin, TX.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I watch tv from the side all the time. Some people have televisions in rooms that aren't easily designed with the viewing angle in mind.

In fact, a couple years ago when there were all the DLP and rear projection LCD televisions, they looked fantastic from specific viewing angles and not so great from the side. That was a major consideration for me.

And while I agree in principle that you should only expect to get "so" close to a wall, I have to admit that the closer it is to flush on the wall, the more impressive it looks. And to some people, "looking impressive" matters.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

The debate about power consumption of LED backlights (in current production models) is still an open discussion. AFAIK LED sets, have about the same consumption as CCFL sets currently (once again, current production models). In the future it's up to a 10% savings, which means once a year or less it's power consumption is "free" when compared to a normal CCFL. Depending on how much it's used that might not amount to much. The power savings are great and all, but I'll take accuracy of colors and inky blacks over that any day.

samsung themselves claim these models are 40% more energy efficient than regular lcd's.
i'm very open to discussion.

i'm not a fanboy of either side. i can appreciate the superior color saturation of a plasma. heck, i own one.
but the avs forum calibrator dude said the samsung and panny were very close, with slight edge to the samsung if they were same size/price.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

The debate about power consumption of LED backlights (in current production models) is still an open discussion. AFAIK LED sets, have about the same consumption as CCFL sets currently (once again, current production models). In the future it's up to a 10% savings, which means once a year or less it's power consumption is "free" when compared to a normal CCFL. Depending on how much it's used that might not amount to much. The power savings are great and all, but I'll take accuracy of colors and inky blacks over that any day.

samsung themselves claim these models are 40% more energy efficient than regular lcd's.
i'm very open to discussion.

i'm not a fanboy of either side. i can appreciate the superior color saturation of a plasma. heck, i own one.
but the avs forum calibrator dude said the samsung and panny were very close, with slight edge to the samsung if they were same size/price.

I would like to see a non-biased review of the panel and see what the power draw actually is. LED's don't cut consumption in almost half (AFAIK) even with local dimming.

I am a fan of plasma, for the sole reason that it gives better PQ IMO. Also it was cheaper then the 52 inch LCD's I was looking at ($2k vs $2.3+ for the Sammy/Sony at the time). LCD's in the top tier of PQ (like Sammy), are about 1-2 generations behind top of the line plasma PQ IMO (this was last gen stuff, haven't had the chance to compare current stuff but read that is still the case).

I'm not a "fanboy" of one side or the other. I am a "fanboy" of the best PQ, which as of now is plasma to me. So if I were buying right now I would buy Kuro, Panny, Sammy, Sony in that order. With Kuro's being gone soon, I will move to Panny/Sammy for my next tv most likely.

I'm not against LCD, just plasma (right now) is where it's at for PQ

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Koing
I don't get why the fuss over ultra thin lcds/ plasma screens? As long as I can hang it on the wall and it doesn't stick out more then say 5-8inches tops thats good enough for me. I'm not going to notice an extra 3-7inches of extra space in front of my tv...

I give it that it does look cool but as logn as I can hang it on the wall thats good enough for me.

Koing

Here's the simple reason:




You're not a wife

Yeah, but come on man. If it hangs on the wall and doesn't stick out a foot then it's all good man!

Koing

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
I don't care about the thin; LED/LCD has a definite advantage in contrast, since they can fine tune the backlighting almost pixel-by-pixel to give incredible blacks without dimming the highlights.

It's not anywhere near pixel-by-pixel yet. ..

I overstated the level of control of the backlighting, but the contrast improvement available should be significant.

I also note your comments on contrast ratings, and agree that they (along with response time & viewing angle) are pretty much useless in comparing screens. Until there is some meaningful standard for testing these qualities, the ratings may as well be just random numbers on paper.

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
...

Hey, haven't I seen you somewhere before?

I'm everywhere! There is no escape!!!