Found a screw that the previous owner lost in my boxer 6 engine

[herm0016]

corvair's are great. looks like you have a great car.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Progress:

As far as the fan belt goes, it isn't really an issue if you don't over tighten the tension on the belt. Or unless you are quick shifting when the engine is over 6,000 rpm. But there is a fix for the 6,000+ rpm case as one of the vendors offers a spring loaded idler pulley.

Thanks guys for all the complements.

 

[LTC8K6]

That "GM" looks so out of place on that engine...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Cepak
As far as the fan belt goes, it isn't really an issue if you don't over tighten the tension on the belt. Or unless you are quick shifting when the engine is over 6,000 rpm. But there is a fix for the 6,000+ rpm case as one of the vendors offers a spring loaded idler pulley.

Thanks guys for all the complements.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Corvair. It is, IMO, one of the best examples of a time when GM was a world leader in automotive technology.

The fan belt may have been a horrible idea, but it was certainly far less horrible than, say, building an all-out sportscar with the engine entirely behind the rear axle like as my favorite company does. I have a certain fondness for horrible ideas that still manage to work.

ZV

 

[Demon-Xanth]

If you want to see something that "GM" looks really out of place on now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQpwIQqTj4E

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Cepak
As far as the fan belt goes, it isn't really an issue if you don't over tighten the tension on the belt. Or unless you are quick shifting when the engine is over 6,000 rpm. But there is a fix for the 6,000+ rpm case as one of the vendors offers a spring loaded idler pulley.

Thanks guys for all the complements.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Corvair. It is, IMO, one of the best examples of a time when GM was a world leader in automotive technology.

The fan belt may have been a horrible idea, but it was certainly far less horrible than, say, building an all-out sportscar with the engine entirely behind the rear axle like as my favorite company does. I have a certain fondness for horrible ideas that manage to work after forty years of development.

ZV

 

[DietDrThunder]

Zenmervolt - When I've got the assembly complete and running again (should be this evening), If you live near Ft Worth Tx, I'll let you take a test drive. You might be surprized at how well it handles.

In the mean time, enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ynext_from=PL&index=25

In the second video, watch how the 64 1/2 Mustang. (approx 1 minute) handles vs. the Corvair (1:30).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27Nkns4Tew

It ain't a porshe, but I like it.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Cepak
Zenmervolt - When I've got the assembly complete and running again (should be this evening), If you live near Ft Worth Tx, I'll let you take a test drive. You might be surprized at how well it handles.

In the mean time, enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ynext_from=PL&index=25

In the second video, watch how the 64 1/2 Mustang. (approx 1 minute) handles vs. the Corvair (1:30).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27Nkns4Tew

It ain't a porshe, but I like it.

If I were in TX, I'd take you up on it. As it is, I'll pencil you in after Ronstang on my list of Texans I want to meet if I get the chance.

The Corvair was a pretty kick-ass little car. It really is a shame that it got killed; I've never forgiven Nader for that.

ZV

 

[DietDrThunder]

Zenmervolt - You probably won't believe me, but Nader actually saved the Corvair. After Ford Mustang sales took off in '64/'65, GM had decided to stop producing Corvairs after the '66 model year. Hence the creation of the Camaro. Because of Nader, GM didn't want anyone to think that Nader had anything to do with the production being stopped, so they kept making them through May of '69. I think 1959 through 1969 is a good production run for any automobile, especially since they produced over 1.8 million in that time span.

EM = Early Model Corvair 1960 through 1964
LM = Late Model Corvair 1965 through 1969
FC = Forward Control 1962 through 1966 Trucks and Vans

EM 4-door sedan:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0572.jpg

EM coupe:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0535.jpg

EM convertible:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0540.jpg

EM stationwagon:
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...m/Corvair/Lakewood.jpg

LM 4-door sedan:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0533.jpg

LM coupe:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0482.jpg

LM convertible:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0490.jpg

FC Rampside pickup:
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...niversary/IMG_2905.jpg

FC Loadside pickup (no ramp):
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...niversary/IMG_2897.jpg

FC Greenbriar 9 passenger van:
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...niversary/IMG_2891.jpg

FC Panel van:
I'm missing this photo

Ultra van:
http://i307.photobucket.com/al...99/cepakt/IMG_0574.jpg

 

[DietDrThunder]

The boxer 6 is alive. After final assembly it took two squirts of starter fluid in each carb and it fired right up. Unfortunately I had one minor setback. The replacement oil cooler (I bought off ebay) leaked. It is a larger folded fin type which was supposed to cool better than the 3-plate cooler the engine originally came with.

Folded Fin oil cooler:

Original 3-plate vs. folded fin oil coolers:

So I had to put the old oil cooler back on and order a new one from Steve Goodman at Rear Engine Specialists. I fired up the engine again and it ran smooth with a little hydralic lifter clatter for about 10 minutes, then quieter than I ever heard this engine run. I took it out for a 30 minute test run and it ran great. I took a look under the engine with the engine running and to my surprize, no oil leaks.

Photo of the assembled engine:

I'm going to have to buy a cheap video camera so I can post on youtube.

 

[JJ650]

Hey Cepak,
Have you had issues with the heads slapping?? I know if you lug the engine this will happen, but what about in normal (making damned sure not to lug it) and there is still slapping?

 

[DietDrThunder]

No, I haven't had any issues in any senerio where the engine has experienced head slapping. I went and checked on a Corvair forum and there are only few ways you can experience this with a Corvair engine.

1) installing the pistons 180 degrees off (having the notch on the piston pointing towards the rear of the car instead of the front)
2) forgetting to install the cylinder base shim (reduced deck clearance)
3) machining the deck of the head without then checking the clearance and adding a thicker head gasket.
4) installing domed pistons.

I'd have to say that even though I was a little nervous about doing this major of a repair, to my surprize, this engine was very easy to work on.

Saturday I'm off to look at another Corvair boxer 6 engine to start my next project. I'm going to experiment with Electronic Distributorless Ignition Systems (EDIS) and Throttle Body Fuel Injection (TBFI) for this engine with junkyard parts.

 

[JJ650]

Thanks. I'll have to ask him about the previous work he's done to his. The last time I was in San Antonio, we took it out for a drive and I thought it SOUNDED like head slapping. At first I thought it was detonating, but the more we drove the more I thought it didn't sound or feel like detonating.
Just make ya a bit worries especially when the slapping will destroy the heads REAL fast.

 

[DietDrThunder]

One easy test to determine if it is detonation is to check the timing. Most guys like me who are using Pertronix modules instead of points, advance the timing way past spec. Once we get to where the engine pings under load, we retard the timing until the ping is gone. Spec on my engine is 13 degrees BTDC. I have the timing set to 18 degrees BTDC, when I went above 18 degrees, that is when it started experiencing detonation.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Cepak
Zenmervolt - When I've got the assembly complete and running again (should be this evening), If you live near Ft Worth Tx, I'll let you take a test drive. You might be surprized at how well it handles.

In the mean time, enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ynext_from=PL&index=25

In the second video, watch how the 64 1/2 Mustang. (approx 1 minute) handles vs. the Corvair (1:30).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27Nkns4Tew

It ain't a porshe, but I like it.

If I were in TX, I'd take you up on it. As it is, I'll pencil you in after Ronstang on my list of Texans I want to meet if I get the chance.

The Corvair was a pretty kick-ass little car. It really is a shame that it got killed; I've never forgiven Nader for that.

ZV

Aww, no love for me ZV?

Cepak: if you're free one day I would like to check it out, it's a pretty awesome ride. I'm in Dallas. You should take it out to Motorsport Ranch

 

[JJ650]

Originally posted by: Cepak
One easy test to determine if it is detonation is to check the timing. Most guys like me who are using Pertronix modules instead of points, advance the timing way past spec. Once we get to where the engine pings under load, we retard the timing until the ping is gone. Spec on my engine is 13 degrees BTDC. I have the timing set to 18 degrees BTDC, when I went above 18 degrees, that is when it started experiencing detonation.

Awesome info. I'll definitely relay that to him if he hasn't already cheched it. He's pretty competent on this sorta thing, but it could have been easily overlooked as well.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Cepak
Zenmervolt - When I've got the assembly complete and running again (should be this evening), If you live near Ft Worth Tx, I'll let you take a test drive. You might be surprized at how well it handles.

In the mean time, enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ynext_from=PL&index=25

In the second video, watch how the 64 1/2 Mustang. (approx 1 minute) handles vs. the Corvair (1:30).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27Nkns4Tew

It ain't a porshe, but I like it.

If I were in TX, I'd take you up on it. As it is, I'll pencil you in after Ronstang on my list of Texans I want to meet if I get the chance.

The Corvair was a pretty kick-ass little car. It really is a shame that it got killed; I've never forgiven Nader for that.

ZV

Aww, no love for me ZV?

Cepak: if you're free one day I would like to check it out, it's a pretty awesome ride. I'm in Dallas. You should take it out to Motorsport Ranch

Definately, you'll have to come by. I've thought about taking it out on a track, but I don't want to install a rollbar in my convertible.

I have done some performance improvements. I basically replaced everything brake wise including a dual master cylinder instead of the single resevour, replaced the brake hoses with braided stainless steel hoses, turned the drums and installed performance kevlar brake shoes.

As far as the suspension goes, I have the parts but haven't installed them yet (because of the engine problem). I've bought new heavy duty springs (one for each corner, and yes each corner is fully independent suspension). An EMPI camber compensator (for the swing axle to eliminate rear wheel tuck under on hard cornering). 1 1/4" front sway bar and Koni adjustable shocks for each corner. I still have to find some decient 15" wheels so I can put some lower profile tires on.

As far as the engine goes, that is why I'm looking into EDIS and TBFI. I want to get a bit more power out of the engine.

I've thought about going out to Motorsport ranch, but it is a bit expensive.
- Regular initiation fee: $3700 plus tax (one time only)
- Regular monthly dues: $90 plus tax
- Regular half-hour run session: $20

But who knows, maybe I'll save up enough money to join some day.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Cepak

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Cepak
Zenmervolt - When I've got the assembly complete and running again (should be this evening), If you live near Ft Worth Tx, I'll let you take a test drive. You might be surprized at how well it handles.

In the mean time, enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ynext_from=PL&index=25

In the second video, watch how the 64 1/2 Mustang. (approx 1 minute) handles vs. the Corvair (1:30).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27Nkns4Tew

It ain't a porshe, but I like it.

If I were in TX, I'd take you up on it. As it is, I'll pencil you in after Ronstang on my list of Texans I want to meet if I get the chance.

The Corvair was a pretty kick-ass little car. It really is a shame that it got killed; I've never forgiven Nader for that.

ZV

Aww, no love for me ZV?

Cepak: if you're free one day I would like to check it out, it's a pretty awesome ride. I'm in Dallas. You should take it out to Motorsport Ranch

Definately, you'll have to come by. I've thought about taking it out on a track, but I don't want to install a rollbar in my convertible.

I have done some performance improvements. I basically replaced everything brake wise including a dual master cylinder instead of the single resevour, replaced the brake hoses with braided stainless steel hoses, turned the drums and installed performance kevlar brake shoes.

As far as the suspension goes, I have the parts but haven't installed them yet (because of the engine problem). I've bought new heavy duty springs (one for each corner, and yes each corner is fully independent suspension). An EMPI camber compensator (for the swing axle to eliminate rear wheel tuck under on hard cornering). 1 1/4" front sway bar and Koni adjustable shocks for each corner. I still have to find some decient 15" wheels so I can put some lower profile tires on.

As far as the engine goes, that is why I'm looking into EDIS and TBFI. I want to get a bit more power out of the engine.

I've thought about going out to Motorsport ranch, but it is a bit expensive.
- Regular initiation fee: $3700 plus tax (one time only)
- Regular monthly dues: $90 plus tax
- Regular half-hour run session: $20

But who knows, maybe I'll save up enough money to join some day.

You don't have to have a roll bar if you go out with Apex (the driving school), and it's reasonably priced

 

[Thump553]

It's popular in certain circles to dump on Ralph Nader for exposing the problems with the Covair, but those problems were very real in the early years of production. GM fixed the problem, but given the corporate mentality at the time they would never admit there was a problem. In the end it was GM's stonewalling and lying destroyed the Corvair.

The Corvair was a blast to drive. My first real paying job was as a clerk/delivery boy for a local drugstore. I did the deliveries in the pharmacist's old Corvair, and for a 16 year old newly licensed driver it was heaven. It handled more like a go-kart than a piece of Detroit iron,, but it you flung it around a corner a bit too fast, it was very easy to tuck in the inside rear wheel. So from the driver's viewpoint you would transition unexpectedly from a car that seemd like in handled on rails to one that was rolling. I came close a couple of times to tucking in the rear wheel, and this was on suburban streets at 30-40 mph.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Rear wheel tuck under is the reason I bought an EMPI camber compensator (it was quite hard to find). VW, Renault, and others with swing axle cars of the time suffered the same issue. The EMPI CC was an easy bolt on fix for this problem. GM addressed the issue in '64 with a transverse spring (basically copied EMPI). The '65 through '69 were developed without a swing axle, and the wheel tuck issue disappeared. What is funny is that the '65 through '69 suspension was based on the Corvette's. Even though GM wouldn't admit it, the '65 through '69 actually handled better than the same year Corvettes (info from an old drive report I read from Car and Driver magazine).

Found an old EMPI ad:
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...om/Corvair/empi_cc.jpg

 

[Thump553]

Very interesting information Cepak. I've driven VW Bugs from the same era, but they were so underpowered that it would almost impossible to fling it around a corner like the Corvair almost invited you to do. Decades later my brother had a Corvette from 63 or 64 (the year with the infamous split rear window) but I remember next to nothing about how it handled-I was too nervous about harming his baby when I drove it.

 

[alfa147x]

I LOVE YOUR CAR! But i cant seem to find one any where!


NVM can't search:
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Ca...d=p3286.c0.m282&_rdc=1

 

[DietDrThunder]

Try this nationwide Craigslist search:
http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/m...cat=cp&fil=&pg=&state=

Oh, by the way, if any of you are wondering about parts availability, don't worry. Here is just a small list of vendors:

American Pi:
http://www.american-pi.com/

California Corvair Parts:
http://www.californiacorvairparts.com/

Clark's Corvair Parts:
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main

Corvair Ranch:
http://www.corvairranch.com/

Corvair Underground:
http://www.corvairunderground.com/

LS Corvair Parts:
http://www.larryscorvair.com/

Rafee Corvair Specialists
http://www.rafeecorvair.com/

 

[klod]

They make great airplane engines as well:

Fly Corvair

 

[DietDrThunder]

Speaking of engines, here is a list of what was available from the factory.

1960 - 140 c.i. (or 2.3 liter) 80hp and in mid 1960 95hp
1961 - 145 c.i. (or 2.4 liter) 80hp and 98hp
1962 / 1963 - 145 c.i. (or 2.4 liter) 84hp, 102hp, and the 150hp with factory turbo charger
1964 - 164 c.i. (or 2.7 liter) 95hp, 110hp, and the 150hp with factory turbo charger
1965 / 1966 - 164 c.i (or 2.7 liter) 95hp, 110hp, 140hp four carb, and the 180hp with factory turbo charger
1967 through 1969 - 164 c.i (or 2.7 liter) 95hp, 110hp, and 140hp four carb - factory turbo charging no longer offered.

So the twin carb engines pretty much looked the same (80 through 110hp)
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...m/Corvair/IMG_2880.jpg

the 150hp and 180hp turbo charded engines look simular as well:
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...orvair/Corsa_turbo.jpg

http://i423.photobucket.com/al...rvair/corsa_turbo2.jpg

and the 140hp 4 carb engine:
http://i423.photobucket.com/al...m/Corvair/fourcarb.jpg