Found a GTX 580 for $299 - What to do? About to buy 670s...

[MarkC9]

Hello,
I am currently using a Zotac GTX 580 @ 1.5GB
I am looking to upgrade. I tend to play open world games with high-res textures modded in. For this reason I was looking for cards with more VRAM.

I found:
EVGA 670 @ 2GB for $365
EVGA 670 @ 4GB for $399
EVGA 680 @ 2GB for $435

The plan was to SLI one of these three choices as the only 580 I could find at the time was $399.

I had to consider though that 1.5GB has been giving me texture pop-ins and stuttering with Skyrim and GTA. I do not believe even 2GB will be enough for my needs either. I'm using only half the maximum values for texture qualities, AA samples, shadow quality, etc and it still pushes the full 1.5GB of VRAM. I use very high-res texture mods and insist on quality, so if I'm going to drop over $700 I insist that I can use things like 8xMSAA on top of 4xSS and still maintain full FPS with no stuttering. Thus I was considering dropping $800 on a 670 4GB setup.

However I have now found a new 580 (also Zotac) for $299. Saving $500 would be nice and I'm thinking I'll probably need to to get rid of my Z68 mobo and 2600k CPU by this time next year when the Haswell chips are out and priced a little nicer around Christmas.

What do you guys recommend? Do you think the market will make it worth it in a years time to save the money now and use it for better GPU/CPU/mobo this time next year?
What do you think about VRAM in regards to open-world games at maxed out settings filled with high quality texture mods? Am I right to assume these things if I'm already showing 1.5GB in GPU-Z with settings/textures not maxed out?

Cheers.

 

[ensign_lee]

I say get the second 580 and SLI them.

 

[chimaxi83]

If you want a real upgrade, two 670 4GB is the way to go (if you insist on Nvidia). I don't think it makes a lot of sense to SLI an older card this late in the cycle. Also, that 2600K is still a great chip and very capable in any gaming situation.

I still think Crossfire 7950s makes more sense though

 

[Arkaign]

A 580 is kinda high at that price imho.

For similar $, one could sell your current 580, and combine the $ you would have spent on the second 580, and get a pair of 7950 3GB cards. For Skyrim + texture mods and similar graphics-memory-heavy loads a second 580 is still going to tank when it simply has no more memory to work with. In all multi-card situations, two, three, or even four cards only have the same amount of game-available memory as a single card, hence your SLI 580 to the game would still only have 1.5GB to work with.

CF 7950 3GB OC will be considerably faster than SLI 580 1.5GB for your needs, and even comparable or superior (depending on clocks and exact titles) to SLI 670/680 setups with 2GB, while generally not falling behind the 4GB setups AFAIK.

I have a 670FTW 2GB and love it, but I bought mine before AMD dropped their prices like a rock.

 

[MarkC9]

Thanks for the replies so far. Yes I am aware that VRAM does not double.

This is going to sound very ignorant but I'm gonna say it anyway: Don't AMD make an inferior product? Or rather games simply don't seem to support their cards as well as NVIDIAs? Just from reading forum posts over the last few years I've gathered that many people seem to have issues with the cards.

@Arkaign - That price is high? Shit, I looked around for 6 months and never found it once for under $350 in that time. Even looking around now all the retailers have it priced close to $400. Where have you seen it for less?

 

[Arkaign]

Thanks for the replies so far.

This is going to sound very ignorant but I'm gonna say it anyway: Don't AMD make an inferior product? Or rather games simply don't seem to support there cards as well as NVIDIAs? Just from reading forum posts I've gathered there's more issues with them.

@Arkaign - That price is high? Shit, I looked around for 6 months and never found it once for under $350 in that time. Even looking around now all the retailers have it priced close to $400. Where have you seen it for less?

The price is high because it's basically at 7950 levels, and 7950 is one generation newer, has double the ram, and is faster at stock, and way faster once overclocked. I've seen 580s dumped used for a good bit less than $300. I'm not dissing the 580, it's not a fair comparison to dump on a last-gen product, but 6xx/7xxx are a pretty good jump from 5xx/6xxx products imho.

As for an inferior product, I think that's just marketing shills and such for the most part. You hear the same type of fanboys dissing Nvidia or even Intel frequently. As a part of a pretty large local gaming community that has dozens of rigs using AMD and Intel CPUs, and AMD and Nvidia GPUs, sometimes someone has a bad mobo or bad GPU, but in my experience you're just as likely with AMD or Nvidia to have a bad experience, and 99% of the time everything is fine. I replaced AMD 69502GB with 670FTW 2GB and both were awesome really, brother replaced GTX560ti with 6950CF (I gave him my old one) and both were awesome, gave a buddy a 7770GE to replace a 5750 which replaced a 460GTX768 that died (fan got clogged and it was overclocked too much), and all worked great.

Pretty much look for a well reviewed card with a decent warranty and make sure your OS is running well, clean old drivers + update drivers and you're generally golden, and brand/mfg is not a big deal.

 

[JohnnyChuttz]

Find a used 580. I see them for $200-250.

Save your money for next gen.

 

[Arkaign]

Find a used 580. I see them all over for $200-250.

Save your money for next gen.

I like this idea for general 1080p gaming with high settings and moderate AA, but OP is talking about ram-limited situations with texture mods slamming against the 1.5GB limit, I don't think SLI 580 is going to do much for him.

 

[MarkC9]

Looks like selling the 580 ASAP is the best bet then. Getting the same feeling from other places I've posted too.

Someone from another forum did point this out: "...The bottleneck should be in how much bandwidth the larger textures will cause to the VRAM. In which case faster VRAM and a larger memory bus would go a good way to relieve that. An increase in memory size to 2GB or 3GB will just hold more compressed textures for higher resolutions but when the game goes to read those textures it still has to go through the bus at the speed of the vram."

How would this apply when comparing a 7950 3GB with a 670 4GB?

 

[Arkaign]

Sticking with Nvidia, selling the 580 and going to a single 670 4GB would actually be a more stable choice for that duty imho.

 

[Arkaign]

670 4GB would be marginally better than a single 7950 3GB imho. 7950CF can be done for relatively cheap considering, but 670 4GB SLI would be better yet for extremely high vram use. But that's a fair bit more. You can get 7950 3GB for $300 or less, making a CF setup $600ish. 670 4GB is something like $440-$460, making the SLI setup about $900ish. Better, but not worth ~50% more money imho.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Considering you can get a 7950 for less than $299, I wouldn't buy a GTX580 at that price.

 

[jacktesterson]

$299 is way too much money

a $165 7850 will overpower a 580 with overclocking.

 

[MarkC9]

@bigystyle - I'm not sure it would overpower the 580 but point taken. It's weird, they had them on sale for $350 at a chain of stores here just a few months ago and they went like hot tamales.

670 4GB would be marginally better than a single 7950 3GB imho. 7950CF can be done for relatively cheap considering, but 670 4GB SLI would be better yet for extremely high vram use. But that's a fair bit more. You can get 7950 3GB for $300 or less, making a CF setup $600ish. 670 4GB is something like $440-$460, making the SLI setup about $900ish. Better, but not worth ~50% more money imho.

As of today (and until boxing day at least) It's $100 more for the 670 4GB vs. 7950 3GB in terms of best prices I can find. Keeping in mind I am in Toronto so many online retailers are out of the question for me (customs charges are enough to erase any $ I'd save).

I've been reading up on the 7950 and it seems without any overclocking it performs more similarly to a stock 580 than it does a stock 670. However I'm going to guess it has more OC capability?

This is the 670 4GB I found for $400:
http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=04G-P4-2673-KR

This is the 7950 3GB I found for $300:
http://www.msi.com/product/vga/R7950-Twin-Frozr-3GD5-OC.html

Both of them overclocked to nearly maximum potential, how will they compare in terms of performance? Specifically with 2 cards in SLI/CF.
There is also this card for $425: http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=04G-P4-3673-KR
I'm gonna guess it would OC better than the other 670, but just how much?

The benchmarks I have found do not show any custom overclocking, hence these questions.

If I can etch out more than 5fps extra on average (@60fps) with the 670 setup, plus the 1GB of extra VRAM, I think I'll find it worth the extra $200 considering I'm already dropping $600. If the difference in FPS between the setups is less than a handful though (@60fps) then I will consider saving the money.

EDIT: Had posted the wrong link to the first 670 above. Fixed.

 

[jacktesterson]

@bigystyle - I'm not sure it would overpower the 580 but point taken. It's weird, they had them on sale for $350 at a chain of stores here just a few months ago and they went like hot tamales.

Your right. It won't overpower it, but it can match it.

A 7850 at 1200+ core will beat a 580 by 10% or so, while consuming 1/2 the Power, at nearly 1/2 the price.


I'd get the Sapphire 7950 Dual X - They seem to overclock very well.

If your gaming at 1080p, a 580 SLI will be very nice...though power consumption would be a tad higher than I'd want.

 

[Eureka]

@Both of them overclocked to nearly maximum potential, how will they compare in terms of performance? Specifically with 2 cards in SLI/CF.

The benchmarks I have found do not show any custom overclocking, thus the 7950 is testing in close to the levels of the 580...

If I can etch out an extra 5fps or so (@60fps) with the 670 setup, plus the 1GB of extra VRAM, I think I'll find it worth the $200. If the difference in FPS between the setups is less than a handful though (@60fps) then I will consider saving the money.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=664&card2=669

You can turn up the overclocks on that site, and there's a multi-GPU option too. It gives you raw processing numbers but it translates somewhat well into performance.

 

[The Alias]

anybody thinking what I'm thinking ? No ? Oh well let me explain .

that was a 7970 ghz ed at stock clocks . The only reason it did better was because of its lower voltage and better cooling allowed it to stay in it's boost clock for longer . If you bought this :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131471
you'd have a more powerful setup that used less power for only $50 more than a 670 . A 670, or sli 580s should never have been in contention to be honest

 

[imaheadcase]

The price is high because it's basically at 7950 levels, and 7950 is one generation newer, has double the ram, and is faster at stock, and way faster once overclocked. I've seen 580s dumped used for a good bit less than $300. I'm not dissing the 580, it's not a fair comparison to dump on a last-gen product, but 6xx/7xxx are a pretty good jump from 5xx/6xxx products imho.

.

Wrong, just wrong.

 

[MarkC9]

Well this thread is a bit overwhelming now... dunno what to choose out of 670s or 7950s or 7970s

The 7970s benchmark faster than the 670s overall but just barely... and in fact in Skyrim the 670s benchmark better. The only brand I can find as well is XFX, whoever they are. If I wanted to buy a Sapphire or what not I'd be looking at an extra $60 per card.


Prices (2x card):
EVGA 670 4GB (not FTW) - $800
XFX 7970 3GB Ghz Edition - $810
Sapphire 7970 3GB Ghz Edition - $930
MSI 7950 3GB Twin Frozr II - $610


So this is my dilemma:

- 7970 3GB GHz CF seems like the fastest choice overall; but there's the whole microstuttering thing, which I've heard mixed things about (some say it's solved and no worse than SLI, others say it's still noticeably worse with CF). Also reported issues with the recent drivers and catalyst, and this is not the first time I've heard this in the past couple years. As well, I'll either need to go with "XFX" who I've never heard of, or shell out $130 more than the 670 SLI setup. Just feels a bit risky for a couple extra FPS on average... And not even in Skyrim...

- 670 4GB SLI seems like the safest choice; EVGA is a reputable company, still get the extra gig of VRAM if I were to somehow ever need it, and once again users seem to indicicate the micro-stuttering issue is less with SLI. When push comes to shove the idea that I'll ever have a problem with this setup or need "more" out of it seems unlikely and the 7970 setup isn't more than a single digit % faster in nearly any game.

- 7950 3GB CF seems like a good bang for the buck; it will likely perform about a handful of FPS worse than the 670/7970 setup but for $200 less.

Does anyone have anything to add to these points? Or retract due to my ignorance with these things... :awe:
Also if someone could shed some light on the microstuttering and driver/catalyst issues being reported? As someone mentioned a lot of it is just fanboyism and marketing but certain issues like "texture flickering" in CF seem very widely reported... would be quite the coincidence or a mass case of confirmation bias!

Cheers and thanks for the help so far lads.

EDIT: Did more research, changed some points a bit.

 

[thilanliyan]

From what I have read, microstutter can be reduced/eliminated with the use of RadeonPro for AMD cards and (I think) nvinspector for nVidia cards...that is if you are willing to do some tweaking. Nvidia may already implement something to reduce microstutter from the get go, but someone else will have to confirm that for you.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Considering you can get a 7950 for less than $299, I wouldn't buy a GTX580 at that price.

this.

 

[The Alias]

Well this thread is a bit overwhelming now... dunno what to choose out of 670s or 7950s or 7970s

The 7970s benchmark faster than the 670s overall but just barely... and in fact in Skyrim the 670s benchmark better. The only brand I can find as well is XFX, whoever they are. If I wanted to buy a Sapphire or what not I'd be looking at an extra $60 per card.


Prices (2x card):
EVGA 670 4GB (not FTW) - $800
XFX 7970 3GB Ghz Edition - $810
Sapphire 7970 3GB Ghz Edition - $930
MSI 7950 3GB Twin Frozr II - $610


So this is my dilemma:

- 7970 3GB GHz CF seems like the fastest choice overall; but there's the whole microstuttering thing, which I've heard mixed things about (some say it's solved and no worse than SLI, others say it's still noticeably worse with CF). Also reported issues with the recent drivers and catalyst, and this is not the first time I've heard this in the past couple years. As well, 'll either need to go with "XFX" who I've never heard of, or shell out $130 more than the 670 SLI setup. All of this risk for a couple extra FPS on average? And not even in Skyrim...

- 670 4GB SLI seems like the safest choice; EVGA is a reputable company, still get the extra gig of VRAM if I were to somehow ever need it, and once again users seem to indicicate the micro-stuttering issue is less with SLI. When push comes to shove the idea that I'll ever have a problem with this setup or need "more" out of it seems unlikely and the 7970 setup isn't more than a single digit % faster in nearly any game.

- 7950 3GB CF seems like a good bang for the buck; it will likely perform about a handful of FPS worse than the 670/7970 setup but for $200 less.

Does anyone have anything to add to these points? Or retract due to my ignorance with these things... :awe:
Also if someone could shed some light on the microstuttering and driver/catalyst issues being reported? As someone mentioned a lot of it is just fanboyism and marketing but certain issues like "texture flickering" seem very widely reported... would be quite the coincidence or a mass case of confirmation bias!

Cheers and thanks for the help so far lads.

EDIT: Did more research, changed some points a bit.

sli/cf isn't really needed for 1080p, the 670 gets beaten by the 7970 in skyrim

Another thing you should take into consideration is the overclocking prowess of both cards . gcn is way more responsive to overclocks than kepler in fact the 7950 goes toe to toe with the 670 after both are overclocked The 7970 leaves most gtx680s behind as you oc past 1100 mhz and onward which is pretty much ensured if you bought one of these : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131471
that card offers pretty much the best bang for buck among all 670/80

 

[SlowSpyder]

MarkC9, if you are looking at reviews that are not using the latest drivers then you are not getting an accurate picture of how these cards stack up.

Here is a good review with new drivers: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/11/12/fall_2012_gpu_driver_comparison_roundup/

Make sure you are looking at the apples to apples benches, or take note that the highest playable settings graphs are of not always equal settings.

 

[Arkaign]

Wrong, just wrong.

Everything I said that you quoted is proven correct by all credible sites and the reputable members of AT.

Let's break it down point by point so you can see how ridiculous you sound :

(1)- $299 is high for a GTX 580 1.5GB. Who could really argue this right now considering the low memory, high power usage, and same price point of better cards?

(2)- 7950 3GB is faster at stock. Yep, with current drivers in most games it's pretty noticable. Look at AT's comparison PREVIOUS to the new AMD drivers :

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/645?vs=517

Huge win for the 7950 there, it's not even a close match really.

(3)- 7950 is way faster once overclocked. Well duh. It's already notably faster stock v stock. And 7950s overclock a great deal more than 580s do.

(4)- 580s are available used a good bit less than $300. Yes, duh.

(5)- Current gen cards are a good bit better than last gen cards. Again, duh. 680 is a lot better than 580, 670 is a lot better than 570, 7950/7970 are hugely better than 6950/6970.

Care to enlighten us with excuses for how insanely wrong you were to make that idiotic comment? Or will you just slink out of the thread like an ignorant coward?

 

[Rvenger]

sli/cf isn't really needed for 1080p, the 670 gets beaten by the 7970 in skyrim

Another thing you should take into consideration is the overclocking prowess of both cards . gcn is way more responsive to overclocks than kepler in fact the 7950 goes toe to toe with the 670 after both are overclocked The 7970 leaves most gtx680s behind as you oc past 1100 mhz and onward which is pretty much ensured if you bought one of these : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131471
that card offers pretty much the best bang for buck among all 670/80

That is actually a killer deal for that 1100mhz PowerColor card, especially if you didn't want to play around with overclocking.