I'll have to see how fragmented my windows machine is when I get it setup again. I don't think I've _ever_ defragmented it. 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I'll have to see how fragmented my windows machine is when I get it setup again. I don't think I've _ever_ defragmented it.
Hurry up & defrag it or else it will crash !!!!
Originally posted by: Budman
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I'll have to see how fragmented my windows machine is when I get it setup again. I don't think I've _ever_ defragmented it.
Hurry up & defrag it or else it will crash !!!!
It's turned off, so I hope it isn't fragmented enough to crash at this point! :Q
I have to disagree with your analysis of fORM's suggestions.
1. Rather than knock his mention of Hijackthis, why not explain what it does and doesn't do and what dangers exist?
2. We all agree. Good anti-spyware software will help any system. Spybot and Ad-Aware are both good, and sometimes, one catches intruders the other misses.
3. I believe fORM is right. Temp files are not the same as your cache. AFIC, TEMP means TEMP, nothing more. My system is set up to dumping all TMP files on each reboot, and I have never had a problem. Getting rid of them means your system does not have to search as large a folder when it needs temporary files from a current session. Your TEMP folder is also one more hiding spot for spyware and viruses.
4. The advice about disabling functions in MSCONFIG is good if you know what you are doing, but it does require understanding to do so effectively. The worst that has ever happened to me is getting an error message on bootup that something I disabled is not available. As in #1, explain for the noobs instead of knocking him.
5. The XP theme is an art choice, and it does require more resources. Noting this is valid for those with less than current systems.
6. You're dead wrong about defragging. Defragging saves time because, when a program needs a file, it reads the entire file from one location on the surface of the hard drive instead of jumping all over the surface, saving mechanical wear on the drive. Not defragging adds time for the operational overhead in the file allocation system and creates a greater chance of read or write errors.
7. Each icon in the lower right area of the System Tray is another running process. If you do not need to have a particular icon/program immediately available in your System Tray, you will be using fewer system resources that would otherwise be available for other system operations. If you have a power system, you probably don't care, but if you're running @ under 1 GHz with less than 512 MB of RAM, limiting extraneous resource use will help.
That said, Windoze is still Windoze -- a virus with mouse support. fORMS's title about getting it to run, "smooth as butter" is a fanatsy wish. We're stuck with it because it's the dominant OS, and we need commonality to keep working, but it's anything but elegant or beautiful.
If I understand the situation correctly (and it's entirely possible I don't) hijackthis is one of the more dangerous (and powerful) programs out there. Recommending adaware or similar programs is probably much better advice for a newbie.
I believe the cache files are in the temporary internet folder on your windows system. Cache files are temporary. While they should be cleaned periodically, I don't think it's that important of an issue that it needs to be done ever reboot (unless you've got a good system and reboot every 3 months or when major updates are released
).Newbies shouldn't be messing with that stuff. If this is supposed to be a guide for newbies, it needs to explain this stuff thoroughly.
I didn't see Bill saying that defraggers can't speed up the system, just that fragmented drives don't cause crashes.
That said, Windoze is still Windoze -- a virus with mouse support. fORMS's title about getting it to run, "smooth as butter" is a fanatsy wish. We're stuck with it because it's the dominant OS, and we need commonality to keep working, but it's anything but elegant or beautiful.
fORMS's title about this being a guide for anyone is a fantasy. You aren't stuck with it.
I have to disagree with your analysis of fORM's suggestions.[/quote]
The PM makes much more sense now
This is not a good tool for new users, good anti-spyware products are much more suitable for the audience listed.
The exact quote is "Dump your tmp files all the time in IE". The only 'tmp' files in IE are the cache itself, therefore this statement is refering to clearing the IE cache. Microsoft itself refers to this as "Temporary Internet Files" in things like diskcleanup and elsewhere.
Yep, and this was directed at brand new users.
I'm afraid you need to re-read my post. The poster claims not defragging causes programs to not launch, system hangs, and system crashes. This simply is not true. I am not arguing that there may be a speed increase (however, I will argue his 30 minute boot to 1 minute boot is a fantasy). Lastly, defragging in no way changes your chances for read or write errors. That quote is as bad as what he said (sorry).
Sure but noobie user have those there do to software they choose to install. They are not the target tweakers who understand the ramificaitons of remove this adhoc.
Bill
That topic by Generalass was also entertaining
VM is not the pagefile. You are refering to the pagefile and it is best to leave it system managed or an initial size of about 4x of what you actually use and the max be about 2x that.
- Oct 25, 1999
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I have No doubt that Mr. fORM has Good Intentions. :thumbsup:
However his post is suffering from the Self centered phenomenon that plagues a lot of the info that his exchanged on public forums.:thumbsdown:
I.e. Not thinking about what is out there and having Future Time perspective, but rather taking the approach of what is good for me and the way I use of the computer Must be good for every One.:shocked:
I do not have the patient to go through every item and do it right but here the idea of what can be done better.
1) Hijackthis // LSP checker (great post by another member)
Should be:
In case your Home page and other Bookmarks become none functional and you get other pages No matter what.
This might help: http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/htlogtutorial.html
2) Spybot - Free App out of Europe - Run it every so often
Should be:
It is a good idea to run frequently an Ad-Ware AntiSpy program to make sure that your system is not Infested with Internet Junk.
According to this report: http://www.windowssecrets.com/050127/
Giant AntiSpyware (Microsoft AntiSpy)__Removed 63% False possitive 0
Webroot Spy Sweeper _____________ Removed 48% False possitive 0
Ad-Aware SE Personal _____________ Removed 47% False possitive 0
The combination of Microsoft AntiSpy and Webroot Spy Sweeper yield the best result of any two combos.
Second is the combo of Microsoft AntiSpy and Ad-Aware.
The latter is totally free.
Many other sites report similar results.
Link to: Basic Steps in cleaning Internet "Junk".
3) Dump your tmp files all the time in IE ...also search for *.tmp,*.chk,~*.* in my computer. You'll be amazed at how many things get left behind.
Should be:
It advisable to get rid of unnecessary files that are produced as secondary to the Windows work (like temporary files). This mainly occurs when programs freeze and did not have a chance to clean after themselves.
However it is important to understand the nature of these files other wise you might erase essential files.
Here is the type of information that you should look for: http://www.personal-computer-tutor.com/deletingtempfiles.htm
4) Run, msconfig uncheck every last item that doesn't not need to be running
[/b]Should be:[/b]
It might be a Good idea to check all the Entries in the StartUp process of Windows.
Some programs are not really needed to Run all the time, and others can be unsafe "Junk".
However Never disable any thing unless you positively know what it does.
There is a little free program, called StartUp. It lets you see and manage all the entries in the Win Startup Process. The nice thing about it, you can Check or Uncheck entries without Installing or Uninstalling.
Link to: StartUP Page.
5)Lose the XP theme and switch to classic view. You'll gain speed the moment you do.
Yeah it was very true many years ago with Pentium II processor and 64MB memory.
6)Defrag your drives if you work with large data files or are getting crashes.
Should be:
Checking every few weeks you are Drive Fragment status and using the Defrag utility if necessary might be a good idea.
7)Check to see how many icons you have next to the clock on startup. Is there more than 6? Get rid of em.
Should be:
It is a Good idea to check the Icons (which actually represent programs and proccess runing in memory) that are loaded automatically into the Traybar, and Quick Launch. Some programs that are loaded this way might take a big chunk of memory. Some of them might not really necessary to be available this way, and might task the computer's resources.
Check each icon to see what it is related to. If you do need any of these programs disable it?
(Here should be some explanation about the few options that explain how to disable these ?Icons?)
8)Delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run and remove Qttask
See bsobel remarks in his big response.
9)Get rid of all those desktop files. Make folders based on content and keep your desktop clean.
This is a statement of personal preference and No an Advice.
I personally to not like to go through the Start Menu so I put all the Icons of programs that I use frequently
10)Disable the remote assistance crap.
Some people needs Remote Assistance. One person Crap might be other person Gold.
11) Press ctrl alt del & see what processes you have running. Google the fishy ones and get rid of em.
This is useless without more explanations.
Link to: Internet infestation -Or, how you are getting Internet "Junk? in and compromise your Computer/Network?
12)Check discs Start Menu / Run... / type chkdsk /f c: / press ENTER (The /f stands for 'fix', c: represents the system drive or partition on which Windows XP is installed. In my case (maybe yours too) it's drive C. Again, XP will want to schedule a scan/repair for the next reboot.)
See bsobel remarks in his big response.
:sun:
P.S. The remark about Guns points toward a possible state of despair to win an argument.:roll:
I.e. invoke some thing unrelated as thought it is ?General Truth? and thus trying to win a discussion. May be you should consult an History Book to educate you on which Continent almost 100 millions people died as a result of ?Guns? in the 20th century.
Hint 1st WWW + Communist Revolution + 2nd WWW.:shocked::brokenheart::evil:
However his post is suffering from the Self centered phenomenon that plagues a lot of the info that his exchanged on public forums.:thumbsdown:
I.e. Not thinking about what is out there and having Future Time perspective, but rather taking the approach of what is good for me and the way I use of the computer Must be good for every One.:shocked:
I do not have the patient to go through every item and do it right but here the idea of what can be done better.
1) Hijackthis // LSP checker (great post by another member)
Should be:
In case your Home page and other Bookmarks become none functional and you get other pages No matter what.
This might help: http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/htlogtutorial.html
2) Spybot - Free App out of Europe - Run it every so often
Should be:
It is a good idea to run frequently an Ad-Ware AntiSpy program to make sure that your system is not Infested with Internet Junk.
According to this report: http://www.windowssecrets.com/050127/
Giant AntiSpyware (Microsoft AntiSpy)__Removed 63% False possitive 0
Webroot Spy Sweeper _____________ Removed 48% False possitive 0
Ad-Aware SE Personal _____________ Removed 47% False possitive 0
The combination of Microsoft AntiSpy and Webroot Spy Sweeper yield the best result of any two combos.
Second is the combo of Microsoft AntiSpy and Ad-Aware.
The latter is totally free.
Many other sites report similar results.
Link to: Basic Steps in cleaning Internet "Junk".
3) Dump your tmp files all the time in IE ...also search for *.tmp,*.chk,~*.* in my computer. You'll be amazed at how many things get left behind.
Should be:
It advisable to get rid of unnecessary files that are produced as secondary to the Windows work (like temporary files). This mainly occurs when programs freeze and did not have a chance to clean after themselves.
However it is important to understand the nature of these files other wise you might erase essential files.
Here is the type of information that you should look for: http://www.personal-computer-tutor.com/deletingtempfiles.htm
4) Run, msconfig uncheck every last item that doesn't not need to be running
[/b]Should be:[/b]
It might be a Good idea to check all the Entries in the StartUp process of Windows.
Some programs are not really needed to Run all the time, and others can be unsafe "Junk".
However Never disable any thing unless you positively know what it does.
There is a little free program, called StartUp. It lets you see and manage all the entries in the Win Startup Process. The nice thing about it, you can Check or Uncheck entries without Installing or Uninstalling.
Link to: StartUP Page.
5)Lose the XP theme and switch to classic view. You'll gain speed the moment you do.
Yeah it was very true many years ago with Pentium II processor and 64MB memory.
6)Defrag your drives if you work with large data files or are getting crashes.
Should be:
Checking every few weeks you are Drive Fragment status and using the Defrag utility if necessary might be a good idea.
7)Check to see how many icons you have next to the clock on startup. Is there more than 6? Get rid of em.
Should be:
It is a Good idea to check the Icons (which actually represent programs and proccess runing in memory) that are loaded automatically into the Traybar, and Quick Launch. Some programs that are loaded this way might take a big chunk of memory. Some of them might not really necessary to be available this way, and might task the computer's resources.
Check each icon to see what it is related to. If you do need any of these programs disable it?
(Here should be some explanation about the few options that explain how to disable these ?Icons?)
8)Delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run and remove Qttask
See bsobel remarks in his big response.
9)Get rid of all those desktop files. Make folders based on content and keep your desktop clean.
This is a statement of personal preference and No an Advice.
I personally to not like to go through the Start Menu so I put all the Icons of programs that I use frequently
10)Disable the remote assistance crap.
Some people needs Remote Assistance. One person Crap might be other person Gold.
11) Press ctrl alt del & see what processes you have running. Google the fishy ones and get rid of em.
This is useless without more explanations.
Link to: Internet infestation -Or, how you are getting Internet "Junk? in and compromise your Computer/Network?
12)Check discs Start Menu / Run... / type chkdsk /f c: / press ENTER (The /f stands for 'fix', c: represents the system drive or partition on which Windows XP is installed. In my case (maybe yours too) it's drive C. Again, XP will want to schedule a scan/repair for the next reboot.)
See bsobel remarks in his big response.
:sun:
P.S. The remark about Guns points toward a possible state of despair to win an argument.:roll:
I.e. invoke some thing unrelated as thought it is ?General Truth? and thus trying to win a discussion. May be you should consult an History Book to educate you on which Continent almost 100 millions people died as a result of ?Guns? in the 20th century.
Hint 1st WWW + Communist Revolution + 2nd WWW.:shocked::brokenheart::evil:
Wonder why the no0bcheese has his profile website as "bsobels.com" ... I think he was trying to make it "bsobelsucks.com" or something.
Unrelated spontaneous Ctrl-V
NCIX/Netlink Computers, Burnaby BC
604-451-8682
Whoops.
- M4H
Unrelated spontaneous Ctrl-V
NCIX/Netlink Computers, Burnaby BC
604-451-8682
Whoops.
- M4H
Every tweak guide has good intentions, but all I have seen have misinformation and generally bad advice.
That would probally be the best combo. I myself only use Ad-Aware and Hijackthis. I never find anything but tracking coockies with ad-aware which are not a security risk. I also never really find anything suspicious in Hijackthis.
Also about the msconfig entries here is a site with a huge database of startup items and for n00bs it is perfect as they can search their database to actually see what it does.
http://www.sysinfo.org/startuplist.php
blackviper is very well known for its really bad advice related to services. There is no need to try to disable as many services as possible. It will not increase performance. Any service that is not being used is not using up any memory or CPU cycles. A few services I do disable, but this is not for performance, but personal preference. Such as Security Center and Themes.
Also completely ignore everything that sites says about pagefile tweaking. It is best to leave it system managed.
That one also has alot of flase information, but does have alot of good security tips and other good tips such as backing up etc. It does contain alot of bogus registry tweaks such as DisablePagingExecutive, IoPageLockLimit, IRQ8Priority, SecondLevelDataCache and AlwaysUnloadDlls
- Oct 25, 1999
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Actually this page is very Good example to what we are talking about.
Mr. Black Viper use to be mainly a gamer. When he first published the page he suggested switching Off all the services that are related to Networking. At the time that (few years ago when the page was first published) Networking Boradband and Internet sharing was Not so common as it is Now.
Later on a lot of people were desperately posting all over the Internet not understanding why they can not use the Network capacity of Windows.
Well, turn out that in order to gain 1/8 of frame in QT they disabled Windows Networking Services on their computers, and either did not know that this what Viper?s advice was about, or forgot about it. Later on the page was fixed and it is better now.
But never the less, even now you have to use you knowledge and judgment of what you are doing rather than following someone Skewed advice.
:sun:
Thank-you Jack & Harvey for seeing the light. I probably should have spent more time writing the initial post but I was hoping for a discussion and boy have I received one.
I suppose this is some sort of initiation into the anandtech realm. I enjoy it.
I've also limited my sig for all those who are stuck in the maternity ward.
As for bsobel...well... he?s still holding his ground for rule #6. Despite giving him some workplace examples he?s not about to lose this argument. In fact he?s not about to be corrected on his own stomping grounds. For now he thinks he?s holding 4 aces. We can let em enjoy the spotlight.
In the meantime I've got no other choice than to "back" up my argument. Since we're now down to one argument I've began a campaign to finally put an end to the confusion surrounding rule 6 so we should all wait for the verdict.
For now it remains 2 opinions from 2 different people. I don't have a problem being wrong. However, I firmly believe that severely fragmented HD's are prone to system hangs and freezes (crashes). The size of the files remains in question as it just simply may have been also the sheer # of files working on the computers in question. Many of these files were between 5 GB & 25 GB. Lots of folders, lots of files constantly being packed and unpacked. We're making video games here not family vacation tapes. So take the amount of fragmentation you encounter and multiply it by 1000.
Lastly, my comment to guns was simply a shot back at bsobels ridiculous "dangerous" comment. I grew up in Hawaii, moved on the mainland and now reside in Vancouver as a part of career advance.
I *heart* bsobel :S
I suppose this is some sort of initiation into the anandtech realm. I enjoy it.
I've also limited my sig for all those who are stuck in the maternity ward.
As for bsobel...well... he?s still holding his ground for rule #6. Despite giving him some workplace examples he?s not about to lose this argument. In fact he?s not about to be corrected on his own stomping grounds. For now he thinks he?s holding 4 aces. We can let em enjoy the spotlight.
In the meantime I've got no other choice than to "back" up my argument. Since we're now down to one argument I've began a campaign to finally put an end to the confusion surrounding rule 6 so we should all wait for the verdict.
For now it remains 2 opinions from 2 different people. I don't have a problem being wrong. However, I firmly believe that severely fragmented HD's are prone to system hangs and freezes (crashes). The size of the files remains in question as it just simply may have been also the sheer # of files working on the computers in question. Many of these files were between 5 GB & 25 GB. Lots of folders, lots of files constantly being packed and unpacked. We're making video games here not family vacation tapes. So take the amount of fragmentation you encounter and multiply it by 1000.
Lastly, my comment to guns was simply a shot back at bsobels ridiculous "dangerous" comment. I grew up in Hawaii, moved on the mainland and now reside in Vancouver as a part of career advance.
I *heart* bsobel :S
- Oct 25, 1999
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The Disk fragmentation issue has merit in this way.
E.g. You have a 30GB drive that reads 5GB free.
If the drive is terribly fragmented and you try to save 4GB of files the hard drive would have ?terrible? time in maneuvering and writing the info to the available segments.
Computers that tend to over heat or are not stable might freeze in this process.
Harvey and I are the oldest two people (age wise) who participated in this tread.:beer:
:sun:
E.g. You have a 30GB drive that reads 5GB free.
If the drive is terribly fragmented and you try to save 4GB of files the hard drive would have ?terrible? time in maneuvering and writing the info to the available segments.
Computers that tend to over heat or are not stable might freeze in this process.
Well I can give you a hint!
Harvey and I are the oldest two people (age wise) who participated in this tread.:beer:
:sun:
skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
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about hijackthis:
I have been cleaning up many computers lately, and I had a comprehensive network job to do for a company. I stopped by to finalize the cable plant design, and the director tells me his desktop will not open a browser, and is totally wedged up, slow. I got IE to open only by right click-open. Since it was so messed up, I chose to get hijackthis as my one download, and I went after his registry and files with a vengeance. I shot completely from the hip, going from memory on what was bad or good. It took one boot into safe mode to get rid of the nastiest, one trip to msconfig, and it was whole again
Moral of the story? Hicjackthis is very powerful and dangerous, yes indeed. I'd have never tried that before I started hanging out in the registry so much.
I'll run spybot or adaware or something later, but it is good to go.
I have been cleaning up many computers lately, and I had a comprehensive network job to do for a company. I stopped by to finalize the cable plant design, and the director tells me his desktop will not open a browser, and is totally wedged up, slow. I got IE to open only by right click-open. Since it was so messed up, I chose to get hijackthis as my one download, and I went after his registry and files with a vengeance. I shot completely from the hip, going from memory on what was bad or good. It took one boot into safe mode to get rid of the nastiest, one trip to msconfig, and it was whole again
Moral of the story? Hicjackthis is very powerful and dangerous, yes indeed. I'd have never tried that before I started hanging out in the registry so much.
I'll run spybot or adaware or something later, but it is good to go.
I'm sorry but, "fORM" is an idiot. Despite his misinformation, the use of the phrase "owned" and his jabs at americans really makes him unqualified to offer any kind of rebuttal.
bsobel is correct in pretty much every point I've read, and fORM is generally wrong.
Or, I could take fORM's approach to arguing...
"Ure wrong! You don't know anything about computers! Brits have bad teeth! OWNED!"
bsobel is correct in pretty much every point I've read, and fORM is generally wrong.
Or, I could take fORM's approach to arguing...
"Ure wrong! You don't know anything about computers! Brits have bad teeth! OWNED!"
That's not a fragmentation issue, that's a system issue. Your system should be able to be working at full steam without issues.
Well I refuse to read all of fORMS' dribble. After about 6-7 posts it was obvious he is a total IDIOT.
My first issue was with page file fragmentation. IT DOESN'T HURT ANYTHING FOR THE PAGEFILE TO BE FRAGMENTED. I hate to break it to your but the pagefile is almost NEVER read sequentially. THat means fragmentation isn't an issue. The only time it is ever any big deal is when it the pagefile causes the fragmentation of other files. And that sure doesn't cause system crashes.
Pagefiles can be fragmented to your hearts delight without performance hits.
My first issue was with page file fragmentation. IT DOESN'T HURT ANYTHING FOR THE PAGEFILE TO BE FRAGMENTED. I hate to break it to your but the pagefile is almost NEVER read sequentially. THat means fragmentation isn't an issue. The only time it is ever any big deal is when it the pagefile causes the fragmentation of other files. And that sure doesn't cause system crashes.
Pagefiles can be fragmented to your hearts delight without performance hits.
The only thing I learned from this thread is to ignore fORM's posts for the rest of my time here.
Well, that and I may switch back to a Windows-managed swap file, but I'm not sure what the real verdict is on that one yet.
Well, that and I may switch back to a Windows-managed swap file, but I'm not sure what the real verdict is on that one yet.
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