This is a complete and utter falsehood and is indicative of your lack of understanding of the OS your claiming to optimize. I'm done here, as I said earlier your welcome to your opinion, however I will warn others how dangerous it is when you post it.
This is a complete and utter falsehood and is indicative of your lack of understanding of the OS your claiming to optimize. I'm done here, as I said earlier your welcome to your opinion, however I will warn others how dangerous it is when you post it.
There goes bsobels white towel. Falsehood? lol. Go smoke another bowl.
Ask the average computer user if they know what defrag is. Many will mention to you that they've never done one. I fix computers for a living and we encounter this scenario several times per month. The HD is so badly fragmented it leads to crashes. I'm baffled that you can't sink your intelligent mind around that. Then again you use a store bought program for defragging so you don't fall under the noob status.
Watch out for fORM..hes dangerous. It's a ploy to cause severe damage to all of your pc's!!
Ask the average computer user if they know what defrag is. Many will mention to you that they've never done one. I fix computers for a living and we encounter this scenario several times per month. The HD is so badly fragmented it leads to crashes. I'm baffled that you can't sink your intelligent mind around that. Then again you use a store bought program for defragging so you don't fall under the noob status.
Watch out for fORM..hes dangerous. It's a ploy to cause severe damage to all of your pc's!!
Yep..many are risky.
However i've had my system like that for ages with no issues. Great for music production, basic usage and heavy gaming.
Coffee time
However i've had my system like that for ages with no issues. Great for music production, basic usage and heavy gaming.
Coffee time
Yes, what you posted was a complete lie.
Again, total misinformation. Sadly, you probably believe it and don't know any better.
Hey rocket ranger, I wrote the fricken defragger. I know a heck of alot more about this than the misinformation your spouting.
Bill
Here we go again...
Fragmentation is a major factor in slow boot times. Many cases are on record of machines taking twenty or thirty minutes to reboot that previously took only a minute or two. This situation can deteriorate to the point where a machine will take hours or not boot up at all. Once thought to affect onlyWindows 9X and NT, this is also seen on fragmented Windows 2000 and Windows XP systems.According to Microsoft?s Knowledge Base Q228734, ?This issue can occur when the NTFS bootsector code contained in logical sector zero of an NTFSvolume is unable to locate and load NTLDR into memory due to the Master File Table (MFT) being highly fragmented.?Why does this occur? The NTFS bootsector code locates and loads NTLDR intomemory. This involves reading the volume's MFT to obtain the root directory.When the MFT is highly fragmented, pieces of the MFT and other metadata that must be read in order to locate the NTLDR may fall outside the areas of the disk that can be read by the BIOS INT 13 routine. Thus the system fails to boot up. Further Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) articles outline additionalmanifestations of similar problems created by fragmentation. Microsoft KB article Q155892 covers the fact that the allocation for NTLDR?s $DATAattribute has become so fragmented that the whole $DATA attribute is no longer in the base FRS (file record segment). Microsoft KB article Q176968 explains another manifestation ? that when you attempt to boot with an NTFSsystem partition, the computer may hang after the power-on self-test (POST) and you may receive an error message stating that a kernel file is missing. This can occur if the NTFS disk structure data contained in the MFT isfragmented (as described above), actually preventing boot up. Previously it was thought that this reliability problem had been eradicated inWindows 2000 and XP. An updated bootsector code and NTLDR was made available for Windows 2000 with the intention of removing its susceptibility to this situation. Similarly, Windows XP includes ?prefetching? of boot files and automatically defragments the boot sector to accelerate start up. However, neither has completely eliminated the problem of systems failing to reboot periodically, requiring the necessity to keep these files routinely defragmented.
Owned...
Fragmentation is a major factor in slow boot times. Many cases are on record of machines taking twenty or thirty minutes to reboot that previously took only a minute or two. This situation can deteriorate to the point where a machine will take hours or not boot up at all. Once thought to affect onlyWindows 9X and NT, this is also seen on fragmented Windows 2000 and Windows XP systems.According to Microsoft?s Knowledge Base Q228734, ?This issue can occur when the NTFS bootsector code contained in logical sector zero of an NTFSvolume is unable to locate and load NTLDR into memory due to the Master File Table (MFT) being highly fragmented.?Why does this occur? The NTFS bootsector code locates and loads NTLDR intomemory. This involves reading the volume's MFT to obtain the root directory.When the MFT is highly fragmented, pieces of the MFT and other metadata that must be read in order to locate the NTLDR may fall outside the areas of the disk that can be read by the BIOS INT 13 routine. Thus the system fails to boot up. Further Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) articles outline additionalmanifestations of similar problems created by fragmentation. Microsoft KB article Q155892 covers the fact that the allocation for NTLDR?s $DATAattribute has become so fragmented that the whole $DATA attribute is no longer in the base FRS (file record segment). Microsoft KB article Q176968 explains another manifestation ? that when you attempt to boot with an NTFSsystem partition, the computer may hang after the power-on self-test (POST) and you may receive an error message stating that a kernel file is missing. This can occur if the NTFS disk structure data contained in the MFT isfragmented (as described above), actually preventing boot up. Previously it was thought that this reliability problem had been eradicated inWindows 2000 and XP. An updated bootsector code and NTLDR was made available for Windows 2000 with the intention of removing its susceptibility to this situation. Similarly, Windows XP includes ?prefetching? of boot files and automatically defragments the boot sector to accelerate start up. However, neither has completely eliminated the problem of systems failing to reboot periodically, requiring the necessity to keep these files routinely defragmented.
Owned...
That is an NT issue, not an XP one. Further, the built in XP defragger (you know the one you recommended since it's free) doesn't defrag the MFT. So, if this problem did exist on XP, you still haven't provided anything of value to address it.
Further, it is your claim that clicking rapidly on your desktop may cause a crash or freeze on fragmented systems. Still waiting for a link to that info...
Further, it is your claim that clicking rapidly on your desktop may cause a crash or freeze on fragmented systems. Still waiting for a link to that info...
There are many documented cases of errors and crashes on Windows caused by fragmentation. A crash takes place, for instance, when attempting to run CHKDSK on a highly fragmented drive.
According to MS KB Q160451 and Q165456, there are several situations where fragmentation causes a system to hang. For example, when you attempt to run CHKDSK on a drive that is heavily fragmented, Windows may crash. Similarly, when the NTFS file system driver is attempting to perform I/O to a fragmented file and does not correctly clear a required field, the process can stop responding; i.e. fragmentation can slow down I/O to the point where programs and processes cease to function entirely. With files scattered throughout the disk in many pieces, they are unavailable to the system when needed and a crash takes place.
That's what happened to the system at Southern Insurance. The intensive memory requirements of proprietary insurance software resulted in screens freezing and the need to repeatedly reboot.
"We were experiencing regular crashes, as well as slow system response," said Don Ungaro of Southern Insurance.
Ungaro installed Executive Software's Diskeeper (www.diskeeper.com) on servers, workstations and laptops. He explains that some of his company's applications create an abundance of temporary files. This causes fragmentation, with its resulting performance slows and instability, to set in very rapidly.
"Diskeeper provides system stability to business users," he said. "The cost of continual shut-downs, reboots and crashes more than offsets the nominal cost of the program."
According to MS KB Q160451 and Q165456, there are several situations where fragmentation causes a system to hang. For example, when you attempt to run CHKDSK on a drive that is heavily fragmented, Windows may crash. Similarly, when the NTFS file system driver is attempting to perform I/O to a fragmented file and does not correctly clear a required field, the process can stop responding; i.e. fragmentation can slow down I/O to the point where programs and processes cease to function entirely. With files scattered throughout the disk in many pieces, they are unavailable to the system when needed and a crash takes place.
That's what happened to the system at Southern Insurance. The intensive memory requirements of proprietary insurance software resulted in screens freezing and the need to repeatedly reboot.
"We were experiencing regular crashes, as well as slow system response," said Don Ungaro of Southern Insurance.
Ungaro installed Executive Software's Diskeeper (www.diskeeper.com) on servers, workstations and laptops. He explains that some of his company's applications create an abundance of temporary files. This causes fragmentation, with its resulting performance slows and instability, to set in very rapidly.
"Diskeeper provides system stability to business users," he said. "The cost of continual shut-downs, reboots and crashes more than offsets the nominal cost of the program."
Not just clicking the mouse on the desktop....clicking on minimize tabs, max tabs and start menus while the computer is hung.
Again, these are NT articles, not XP.
I think you forgot to cite your source, executive software itself from this link.
Your grasping at straws, and still wrong.
You're defending XP likes you're part of the Gates family. Those articles to also apply to XP. They don't happen as often but you claim XP is perfect with heavily defragged HD's.
We agree the old OS's had major problems with this. But problems still occur with severely fragmented drives. They hang, they crash. End of story.
We agree the old OS's had major problems with this. But problems still occur with severely fragmented drives. They hang, they crash. End of story.
We can teach an old dog new tricks.
He sounds like some of the microsoft staff who claim their work is perfect only to release update after update trying to fix exploits and problems.
I originally said it will make your system run better. Then I mentioned I've encountered crashes from severly fragmented HDs on XP.
You've obviously never had a fragmented HD in XP. We work with massive files that are constantly being shifted over the network to various departments. I'll give you one "WORKPLACE" example as you refer to textbooks and webpages for yours. They had never defragged a lot of the drives in a certain dept which was unregulated by our sector.
It was recently discovered there was no technician for their dept. So we immediately began to examine the machines in question. They were virus free yet we're unbelievably slow. Many of the units would lock up or hang when we tried to load a program. We started running though a basic set of guidelines for restoring the systems when we realized the HDs had never been defragged. Once we finished the systems we ran the exact same tests and noticed some major performance changes. The systems were running, we could access the programs and we did not have any system hangups. We pointed all fingers to the FRAGMENTED HD which was the cause of this mess.
I suggest you try letting your system go and not bother ever defragging. You're system will come to an absolute crawl and you will hang and lock up (crash). You're speaking theory which does not carry it's weight in the actual world of field testing. Several co-workers read your post and couldn't stop laughing at how geeky you sound. Hell even my manager had a look and thinks you're on glue.
Try field testing sometime...u might run into some real problems.
Now go write some new fraggy software that will work for our network
He sounds like some of the microsoft staff who claim their work is perfect only to release update after update trying to fix exploits and problems.
I originally said it will make your system run better. Then I mentioned I've encountered crashes from severly fragmented HDs on XP.
You've obviously never had a fragmented HD in XP. We work with massive files that are constantly being shifted over the network to various departments. I'll give you one "WORKPLACE" example as you refer to textbooks and webpages for yours. They had never defragged a lot of the drives in a certain dept which was unregulated by our sector.
It was recently discovered there was no technician for their dept. So we immediately began to examine the machines in question. They were virus free yet we're unbelievably slow. Many of the units would lock up or hang when we tried to load a program. We started running though a basic set of guidelines for restoring the systems when we realized the HDs had never been defragged. Once we finished the systems we ran the exact same tests and noticed some major performance changes. The systems were running, we could access the programs and we did not have any system hangups. We pointed all fingers to the FRAGMENTED HD which was the cause of this mess.
I suggest you try letting your system go and not bother ever defragging. You're system will come to an absolute crawl and you will hang and lock up (crash). You're speaking theory which does not carry it's weight in the actual world of field testing. Several co-workers read your post and couldn't stop laughing at how geeky you sound. Hell even my manager had a look and thinks you're on glue.
Try field testing sometime...u might run into some real problems.
Now go write some new fraggy software that will work for our network
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
1. Install linux
2. ...
3. Profit!!!
Seriously though I've wasted tons of time with "tweak guides" et al. I've found that a partition/drive for XP + installed apps/games/programs and a separate partition/drive for data is definitely a good thing. Defrag every once in a while, don't be stupid about viruses, run some spyware apps every once in a while and you'll be fine. Anything more won't gain you much, and may lose you a lot if something stops working.
2. ...
3. Profit!!!
Seriously though I've wasted tons of time with "tweak guides" et al. I've found that a partition/drive for XP + installed apps/games/programs and a separate partition/drive for data is definitely a good thing. Defrag every once in a while, don't be stupid about viruses, run some spyware apps every once in a while and you'll be fine. Anything more won't gain you much, and may lose you a lot if something stops working.
I don't work for MS.
Wow, can't even remember what you posted eh? Your first post said "Defrag your drives if you work with large data files or are getting crashes. " So you claimed the crash thing from the get go.
Actually, massive files will tend to cause less fragmentation than small ones. Too bad you don't understand any of this.
Wow, were down to antedotal examples eh? Find a reference, you can't as your making this up.
Another lie.
Good for them, it would appear that they are as knowledgable about this as you.
Wolfsraider
Diamond Member
- Jan 27, 2002
- 8,305
- 0
- 76
Bsobel
it ain't getting through solid rock.
anyone who ever copied a dvd to the hdd would know this guys on crack.
I run dc projects for months on end and have not had to defrag (2 instances constantly writing and reading to the hdd - thanks ht).
I have never had a crash from it.
I also run photoshop cs (on the same partition as the scratch disk)
I also run flash mx2004 and dreamweaver
I visit a ton of web pages a day
I have 512 mb of ram and constantly use the swap file to 900-1000mb.
What crashes is he refering to?
I do defrag but not at the expense of losing ground in dc lol
I do reformat every year sometimes every 6 months after full back ups...to remove excess unused files.
Nope I am not "in the business" of fixing computers.
I am an everyday joe with 3 children and addicted to fast machines and distributed computing
My rigs are a 3.2 prescott and a 2.8 b untill tuesday when I am getting a new server (3.0 prescott)
Mike
it ain't getting through solid rock.
anyone who ever copied a dvd to the hdd would know this guys on crack.
I run dc projects for months on end and have not had to defrag (2 instances constantly writing and reading to the hdd - thanks ht).
I have never had a crash from it.
I also run photoshop cs (on the same partition as the scratch disk)
I also run flash mx2004 and dreamweaver
I visit a ton of web pages a day
I have 512 mb of ram and constantly use the swap file to 900-1000mb.
What crashes is he refering to?
I do defrag but not at the expense of losing ground in dc lol
I do reformat every year sometimes every 6 months after full back ups...to remove excess unused files.
Nope I am not "in the business" of fixing computers.
I am an everyday joe with 3 children and addicted to fast machines and distributed computing
My rigs are a 3.2 prescott and a 2.8 b untill tuesday when I am getting a new server (3.0 prescott)
Mike
AMD 3500+ 2.2
Asus AN8-SLi
2GB of Kingston PC3200 DDR 400
2 Leadtek Winfast 6800GT's
Seagate 8M Sata 200.0 GB @ 7200 RPMS
M-Audio Firewire 410
Klipsch 5.1 Desktop
Tsunami Dream Case (Silver)
Thermaltake 680W Silent PSU
Edirol PCR-30
WinXP Sp2
http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=29919
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, a link to your system rig is really all you need in your sig!
BTW: I use tweakui, set the virtual mem to 1000/1500, use Firefox (usually), Adaware/spybot, and Diskeeper and that's really enough IMO.
Asus AN8-SLi
2GB of Kingston PC3200 DDR 400
2 Leadtek Winfast 6800GT's
Seagate 8M Sata 200.0 GB @ 7200 RPMS
M-Audio Firewire 410
Klipsch 5.1 Desktop
Tsunami Dream Case (Silver)
Thermaltake 680W Silent PSU
Edirol PCR-30
WinXP Sp2
http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=29919
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, a link to your system rig is really all you need in your sig!
BTW: I use tweakui, set the virtual mem to 1000/1500, use Firefox (usually), Adaware/spybot, and Diskeeper and that's really enough IMO.
spherrod
Diamond Member
I've really enjoyed reading this thread
not going to recommend fORM's guide to anyone though :thumbsup: :beer:
I have been building comps. for about 17 years and even I don't have the balls to post an XP tweaking
list around this forum..plenty of sites to get the right info...They are being gentle on you.
list around this forum..plenty of sites to get the right info...They are being gentle on you.
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