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Former US soldier says he delivered Goering's poison pill

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Originally posted by: PanzerIV
I still think the notion of killing a US soldier who inadvertently and quite naievly expedited Goering's death is preposterous.
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I would have to agree.

 
Originally posted by: gigapet
i wonder who this chick was working for and if he ever got the poon from her for doing all those favors and if he did was the poon good?
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He didn't finish his story, damn another spider bait! :|
 
I'll say it again, Treason is treason, and is a capital offense. Whether one commits treason knowingly or not has always been irrelevant to the crime itself. I don't think that there can be any question that Stivers committed treason, if this confession is true.
 
I have no real problem with the fact that Goering died via suicide versus the hangman's noose. Regardless of the fact that he killed many people, he could have at least been given the firing squad.
 
Originally posted by: DainBramaged
I have no real problem with the fact that Goering died via suicide versus the hangman's noose. Regardless of the fact that he killed many people, he could have at least been given the firing squad.
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Hanging was intended for those convicted of major war crimes.
Firing squad was for peons.

 
Originally posted by: Vic
I'll say it again, Treason is treason, and is a capital offense. Whether one commits treason knowingly or not has always been irrelevant to the crime itself. I don't think that there can be any question that Stivers committed treason, if this confession is true.
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I guess he "betrayed the trust" of those who put him in charge of guarding him, but I still fail to see what difference it really made? It's not like he helped Goering escape; he still died! At this point, how Goering died matters so little to historians and the general global population. What does matter is that he was held accountable for his actions by a court. I just say we leave history well enough alone and move on in our lives.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: SSP
He served during WW2, and you want to hang this soon to be dead man because of a mistake he made 60 years ago?
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Treason is treason, and is a capital offense.
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Is it treason if he was duped? I think your being a bit harsh, and taking the side Stivers wanted to help him "escape justice."

edit: furthermore, the consitiutional basis for treason may not exist.

"No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Technically I don't think you can confess to treason w/o another witness, which seems odd...

I'm still curious if intent is necessary for treason, I would think it is.

Edit2: Looks like intent is necessary, and a second witness to the confessed event. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article03/24.html
 
Originally posted by: Vic
I'll say it again, Treason is treason, and is a capital offense. Whether one commits treason knowingly or not has always been irrelevant to the crime itself. I don't think that there can be any question that Stivers committed treason, if this confession is true.
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A person commits the crime of treason if he levies war against his state or country or sides to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Treason is a crime under federal and some state laws. Treason is made a high crime, punishable by death, under federal law by Article III, section 3 of the U.S. Constitution: "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

Under this article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. Treason requires overt acts such as giving sensitive government security secrets to other countries, even if such countries are not enemies. Treason can include spying on behalf of a foreign power or divulging military secrets.
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The war was over, the trial was for war crimes. His actions in no way could be considered treason. Goering died a coward just like Hitler.
 
Originally posted by: rahvin
The war was over, the trial was for war crimes. His actions in no way could be considered treason. Goering died a coward just like Hitler.
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That's a technical argument, the intent argument is by far the best. Even if it was during war times, and there were 2 witnesses, his actions are not treason because of intent.

At best you could argue he was giving aid by trying by trying to get him medicine, but that's a very weak argument IMO. His intent wasn't to aid the war efffort...
 
Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Is it treason if he was duped? I think your being a bit harsh, and taking the side Stivers wanted to help him "escape justice."
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Even if he didn't know what he was giving him, he knew he was helping him.
 
A former US Army private who was a guard at the Nuremberg trials says he gave convicted Nazi war criminal Hermann Goering the poison capsule that enabled the top Nazi to commit suicide two hours before his scheduled execution...... Entire books have been written pondering how the heavily guarded Nazi leader managed to evade justice.

So if you die two hours before your scheduled execution you've "evaded justice"?

Sounds to me like he was put to death, just two hours early.
 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

I'm definitely unfamiliar... I'm in the process of getting my Masters in Post-Unification German History and going for PhD in a few years.
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Do they just hand out degrees to anybody nowadays?

"Hey, check me out- I'm an electrical engineer even though I've never heard of electricity".
 
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: rahvin
The war was over, the trial was for war crimes. His actions in no way could be considered treason. Goering died a coward just like Hitler.
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That's a technical argument, the intent argument is by far the best. Even if it was during war times, and there were 2 witnesses, his actions are not treason because of intent.

At best you could argue he was giving aid by trying by trying to get him medicine, but that's a very weak argument IMO. His intent wasn't to aid the war efffort...
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Intentions mean nothing. Even if you unknowingly give aid or comfort to the enemy you can still be convicted of treason. And it's not technicality to say that the war was over and Goering was no longer an enemy of the united states. He was quite simply a war criminal on trial, the solider gave him aid a comfort but the most he could be convicted of is giving assitance to a criminal.
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Is it treason if he was duped? I think your being a bit harsh, and taking the side Stivers wanted to help him "escape justice."
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Even if he didn't know what he was giving him, he knew he was helping him.
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Compare that act vs. other tried cases and I think you will see that as a weak argument, but I'm still reading some of the cases now...

Consider that act is comparable to giving cough syrup to an enemy soldier. Is that treason?
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: DainBramaged
I have no real problem with the fact that Goering died via suicide versus the hangman's noose. Regardless of the fact that he killed many people, he could have at least been given the firing squad.
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Hanging was intended for those convicted of major war crimes.
Firing squad was for peons.
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Either way he would be dead. He was still an officer of his country. We wouldn't be happy if the muslims came over to our country and beheaded all of our army officers.
 
If that happened today, I bet the guy would have been an ATOTer and that would have been some YAGT.

Dear ATOT, I'm trying to get some poon. This chick wants me to bring some medicine to this guy I'm guarding, should I go kill her spider? OMGWTFBBQNAZI
 
Vic, you are a retard.

Lets say your wife told you to mail a package she left on the counter but she turned out to be a spy and that package contained plans for weapons of mass destruction, should you be hanged because of it?

 
Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Vic are you going to pull the switch on the guy?
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I'd pull the switch right now for $1 million cash.
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Uhh... what does $1M have to do with anything?
But now that we know the price of your conscience...
 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

I'm definitely unfamiliar... I'm in the process of getting my Masters in Post-Unification German History and going for PhD in a few years.
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Do they just hand out degrees to anybody nowadays?

"Hey, check me out- I'm an electrical engineer even though I've never heard of electricity".
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check your sarcasm meter.
 
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