1AD is with USAREUR in Germany. Fort Hood, III Mobile Phantom Corps - the most powerful mech force on the planet - has 1 CAV and 2 brigades of 4ID. Their 3rd Bde is out of Fort Carson. 3ID is based out of Fort Stewart, and is the former 24ID reflagged.
"Armored" or "Mechanized" is a misnomer in some respects. An armored division is typically tank heavy by one battalion. Same with a mechanized division - BFV heavy by one battalion. At any rate, the distinction blurs with task organization as task forces are formed within brigades, battalions and even companies under fighting task force and team units. Depends upon the mission. Very few go pure downrange.
Not too difficult if landing strips are available. Heckuva pucker factor on take off in a C5 though.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Well, I have been staying away from these threads in general, but now that I have seen enough-
First, I am glad many here have decided to STFU about how this was going to be a piece of cake, and the numerous, "yeah cant wait to see if they can throw down their guns faster than the French" are largely gone. Of course I expect to see them replaced by chest beating after the war is over.
Now, DaveS is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT
This was a cluster fvck from the beginning. 100,000 was a compromise figure. Rummy wanted 50k troops, but went to 100k because of anticipated resistance from the military.
As far as not knowing the plans, who needs to? I KNOW troops could have been positioned rather than sitting off of Turkey. When Turkey said no, they should have been moved. Troops were waiting for what, 26 days?
What was the rush? We could have had everything in place. No, Ahab er Bush had to go hunting NOW.
Now that this is about liberation, we have painted our soldiers into the corner by limiting our options. That is precisely what happened in Vietnam. Go here, dont fire, target X off limits, dont cross Y. Yeah, we will win this, but when it is over, people should be asking questions, but wont because we dont do that here. It will be "gee, how could we know"?
As for WMD's -
Here is a catch 22
If they are there, they will be used in the defense of Baghdad, and troops will most likely die. If not, where are they? This is about 1441. That is the justification. Either troops will have to be attacked, or this will be shown for a sham as far as justification. Oh, yeah, it is about liberation. That is the hedge. Maybe troops get killed as a result, but Bush's azz is covered either way now. Read my lips jr. Its about regime change. No wait about disarmament, no wait, about liberation. About all you say? No. That is weak. It is about whatever is expedient. Nothing matters but Saddams head on a platter.
First, I am glad many here have decided to STFU about how this was going to be a piece of cake, and the numerous, "yeah cant wait to see if they can throw down their guns faster than the French" are largely gone. Of course I expect to see them replaced by chest beating after the war is over.
Now, DaveS is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT
This was a cluster fvck from the beginning. 100,000 was a compromise figure. Rummy wanted 50k troops, but went to 100k because of anticipated resistance from the military.
As far as not knowing the plans, who needs to? I KNOW troops could have been positioned rather than sitting off of Turkey. When Turkey said no, they should have been moved. Troops were waiting for what, 26 days?
What was the rush? We could have had everything in place. No, Ahab er Bush had to go hunting NOW.
Now that this is about liberation, we have painted our soldiers into the corner by limiting our options. That is precisely what happened in Vietnam. Go here, dont fire, target X off limits, dont cross Y. Yeah, we will win this, but when it is over, people should be asking questions, but wont because we dont do that here. It will be "gee, how could we know"?
As for WMD's -
Here is a catch 22
If they are there, they will be used in the defense of Baghdad, and troops will most likely die. If not, where are they? This is about 1441. That is the justification. Either troops will have to be attacked, or this will be shown for a sham as far as justification. Oh, yeah, it is about liberation. That is the hedge. Maybe troops get killed as a result, but Bush's azz is covered either way now. Read my lips jr. Its about regime change. No wait about disarmament, no wait, about liberation. About all you say? No. That is weak. It is about whatever is expedient. Nothing matters but Saddams head on a platter.
rudder
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 19,441
- 86
- 91
The U.S. generals I think counted on popular uprisings maybe. But in 1991 after at least 50,000 shia were killed by saddam in Southern Iraq in an uprising after the gulf war, the people now are sitting by the sidelines. The number of troops fiercely loyal to saddam is relatively small so I think we are all right. We need some more troops to secure the supply lines. Hell, we have 100% complete air superiority.
Actually I was reading the other day that it is possible to airlift the M1A2 tank. The C-17 can carry one, as well as the C-5. Normally in peacetime, the C-5 will only carry one, but it can carry two with a war waiver. The C-17 will definitely have an advantage with its short takeoff/landing capabilities
Pepsei
Lifer
- Dec 14, 2001
- 12,895
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Says we should have involved 4 Heavy Armored Divisions This mad Dash to Baghdad seems a little risky to me. But unlike Clark I'm not a General..well maybe an Armchair General
Looks like we are increasing the risk for the sake of speed.
I'm sorry, you're talking about a general of the United States Army, and you're telling him to "shut up and learn"? I'd trust his judgement and statesments over those of Rumsfeld any day.
Clark is vying for the Democratic nomination for president. Of course that wouldn't "color" his viewpoint, would it?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82310,00.html
British forces destroyed 14 Iraqi tanks that tried to break out of the southern city of Basra on Thursday morning, and one official said the tanks were manned by Iraqi soldiers whose families were threatened. This was the third column of Iraqi troops that the British have pummeled in the last 24 hours.
"They are being forced to fight by these militia. They are going into, apparently, people's homes, forcing the men to drive these vehicles to try and lead the escape out of Basra," Lockwood said.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12276306,00.html
He said that the pullout of the column seemed "suicidal".
The Commander of British forces in the Gulf, Air Marshal Brian Burridge, said Iraqi soldiers in Basra are being forced by Saddam's security forces to get into their tanks and attack British forces surrounding the city.
The troops involved, he said, appeared to have been coerced by Ba'ath party militias in the city to fight.
He said that there was evidence of "exemplar executions" being carried out. "They go to their houses and hold a gun to the heads of their families.
To me, this is one of the saddest aspects of this war; on a par with the inevitable civilian casualties. Soldiers who would otherwise surrender rather than fight a lost cause are forced to give up their lives or be faced with their own execution as well as their family's.
Part of the "Push for War - NOW" that many people are decrying is the heat. You cant survive long in a MOPP suit when the outside temperature is 100+ degrees, which since summer is coming in Iraq, is a concern. But, if there is VX in the outside air, you arent going to survive long outside your MOPP suit, either.
You can argue it either way, I'm just stating one reason to go earlier rather than later.
You can argue it either way, I'm just stating one reason to go earlier rather than later.
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