Former general and NSA chief says "get out"

[Zebo]

Text

Looks like someone might loose thier retirement package/wife fired/ kids blacklised/ or otherwise be targeted for revenge by this autocratic treasonist regime.

Home | Products | Photos | About | Contact | Press | UPI Investigations | Terms



Commentary: Looking for the exit
By Arnaud de Borchgrave
UPI Editor at Large
Published 4/29/2004 12:38 PM


WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- If it wasn't a quagmire, it was certainly quagmiry. And the first prominent retired general to break ranks with President Bush's Iraq war policy was a Republican who once headed the National Security Agency and also served as a deputy National Security Adviser. Gen. William E. Odom, a fluent Russian speaker who teaches at Georgetown and Yale, told the Wall Street Journal's John Harwood staying the course in Iraq is untenable.

It was hard to disagree with Odom's description of Mr. Bush's vision of reordering the Middle East by building a democracy in Iraq as a pipedream. His prescription: Remove U.S. forces "from that shattered country as rapidly as possible." Odom says bluntly, "we have failed," and "the issue is how high a price we're going to pay - less, by getting out sooner, or more, by getting out later."

At best, Iraq will emerge from the current geopolitical earthquake as "a highly illiberal democracy, inspired by Islamic culture, extremely hostile to the West and probably quite willing to fund terrorist organizations," Odom explained. If that wasn't enough to erode support for the war, Odom added, "The ability of Islamist militants to use Iraq as a beachhead for attacks against American interests elsewhere may increase."

Odom, who heads the pro-Republican Hudson Institute, also sees the sum total of what the U.S. occupation of Iraq has achieved is "the radicalization of Saudi Arabia and probably Egypt, too. And the longer we stay in Iraq, the more isolated America will become."

The retired four-star's proposed solution is for the United Nations and the European allies to take charge of political and security arrangements. This formal request from the United States, says Odom, should be accompanied by a unilateral declaration that U.S. forces are leaving even if no one else agrees to come in.


The Journal's John Hardwood in his Capital Journal column asks which sounds more credible - Gen. Odom's gloomy forecast or Mr. Bush's prediction of success? He does not tell us which way he's leaning. But a company-size bevy of retired U.S. generals and admirals were in constant touch this week with a volunteer drafter putting the final touches to a "tough condemnation" of the Bush administration's Middle Eastern policy.

The Council of Foreign Relations organized a conference call-in for its members with Gen. Odom. A score of former U.S. ambassadors who had served in the Middle East were also discussing how to join their voices to Britain's 52 former ambassadors, high commissioners and governors who wrote to Tony Blair to accuse him of scuttling peace efforts between Israel and Palestinians. The British diplomats also took Mr. Blair to task for policies "doomed to failure" in Iraq.

One of the British co-signers was Paul Bergne, who until recently was the prime minister's personal envoy to Afghanistan.

It was the first time in living memory that such a large group of former envoys to the Middle East had acted as a group to denounce the government's foreign policy, They said they spoke for many serving diplomats as well.

The retired American ambassadors were as one in warning President Bush that discarding the Road Map to peace in the Middle East and substituting a plan that leaves Palestinians with no hope for a viable state is tantamount to declaring war on moderation - and jeopardizing U.S. interests all over the Middle East.

Total alignment on Prime Minister Sharon's anti-Palestinian strategy has turned even moderate Muslims against the United States. Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak said hatred of the United States had never reached such depths.

When Mr. Bush suddenly dropped longstanding U.S. opposition to Jewish settlements on the West Bank, rooted as they were in U.N. resolutions, Israeli settlers could not believe their luck. Sharon conceded Gaza, where 7,500 Jewish settlers had no future among 1.3 million Palestinians, but in return obtained U.S. blessings for permanent Israeli habitation in large swaths of what was to be a Palestinian state. Even illegal hilltop settlements concluded they were now safe from removal and immediately began erecting permanent structures to replace mobile homes. A tiny, isolated community atop a hill near Nablus, where 14 families live in 20 homes on wheels, had already laid the foundations for permanent structures.

No sooner had the White House's red light flashed green than the once surreptitious, crawling annexation of the West Bank resumed in the open. Jewish West Bank settlers were jubilant, while Palestinians were adrift in the Slough of Despond. With the Right of Return for Palestinians also off the table, and no viable state of their own on the West Bank, extremist organizations will have no problem recruiting more jihadis (holy warriors) and merging terrorist operations with the underground resistance in Iraq,

Arab opinion has been inflamed to the point where Palestine and Iraq are now two fronts in the war against what Charles de Gaulle used to call "the Anglo-Saxons." Osama bin Laden is probably thinking he's some kind of strategic genius.

In Iraq, quite apart from Fallujah and Najaf, the U.S. occupation, according to the latest Gallup polls, has turned most of the population against America. In Baghdad, only 13 percent now believe the invasion and regime change it accomplished was morally justifiable. Only one-third of Iraqis believe the occupation is doing more good than harm, and a majority favor an immediate U.S. troop withdrawal while conceding this could put them in greater danger. Odom presumably has his finger on the same pulse.


Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International


Want to use this article? Click here for options!
Copyright 2004 United Press International



Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International. All rights reserved.
Home | Products | Photos | About | Contact | Press | UPI Investigations | Terms

 

[chess9]

"Arab opinion has been inflamed to the point where Palestine and Iraq are now two fronts in the war against what Charles de Gaulle used to call "the Anglo-Saxons." Osama bin Laden is probably thinking he's some kind of strategic genius."

No kidding....

Bush is a complete moron.

-Robert

 

[arsbanned]

Stay the course. Stayyyyyyy the course. :|

 

[tnitsuj]

Some of what he says is true, but I can't accept that the best solution is to withdraw no matter how fVcked up the administration has made the situation.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Some of what he says is true, but I can't accept that the best solution is to withdraw no matter how fVcked up the administration has made the situation.

Yeah it seems the Neocons really fscked us with this one!

 

[maluckey]

While I tend to agree that the situation isn't good, unilaterally pulling out is not an option. Odom may have his opinion, but that what it is........

He (Odom) also stated the following about actions after an abrupt U.S. pullout, which is even more far fetched:

"The Europeans might get scared [of chaos] and go in. There'd probably be a big effort to try to rescue Mr. Bush. But U.S. troops would be gone within six months in any event."

He's dreaming if he thinks that the French, German, or Russian governments would unilaterally enter the fray AFTER the U.S. pullout he envisions. After all, the Russians were kicked out of Afghanistan not too long ago, and have enough problems with militant Islamics at the moment in Chechnya.

 

[Bulk Beef]

The retired four-star's proposed solution is for the United Nations and the European allies to take charge of political and security arrangements. This formal request from the United States, says Odom, should be accompanied by a unilateral declaration that U.S. forces are leaving even if no one else agrees to come in.

That just sounds ridiculous.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: sward666

The retired four-star's proposed solution is for the United Nations and the European allies to take charge of political and security arrangements. This formal request from the United States, says Odom, should be accompanied by a unilateral declaration that U.S. forces are leaving even if no one else agrees to come in.

That just sounds ridiculous.

If our forces there are just making a bad situation worse why shouldn't we leave.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: sward666

The retired four-star's proposed solution is for the United Nations and the European allies to take charge of political and security arrangements. This formal request from the United States, says Odom, should be accompanied by a unilateral declaration that U.S. forces are leaving even if no one else agrees to come in.

That just sounds ridiculous.

If our forces there are just making a bad situation worse why shouldn't we leave.

Because as bad as it is with us there it would only get worse if we cut and run.

 

[arsbanned]

Too bad. Maybe that will teach us to not swagger around like a hillbilly with a shotgun.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Some of what he says is true, but I can't accept that the best solution is to withdraw no matter how fVcked up the administration has made the situation.

Maybe I'm reading too much into his perspective but I believe what he's saying:

1) US admits we've made a major league fudge job of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel/Palestine.
2) US admits we have no idea how to fix Iraq and will essentially run for the hills at the earliest opportunity.
3) Since the US has already lost face we can either go on bended knee to the UN/NATO to beg for urgent intervention . . . or we just leave. Either way the US occupation is over.
4) Europe and Asia have a lot more to lose than the US. The truth is we can survive without Middle East oil (ie Bush references to bringing democracy to the "dark-skinned" people). And we've already lost the respect of most nations.

The stay the course crowd has nothing going for it other than hopes and dreams. Unfortunately, those hopes and dreams depend on a "black box" miracle. Odom is being more pragmatic.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How much better off were we when we stayed in VN all those years?

We tried to "stay the course" there too. We got a lot of full body bags for our troubles.

People need to face reality. Trying to change the ideology of a people has never worked. If we achieved our goals at the cost of tens of thousands, what would it matter if the region was once again in chaos six months later?

So far stay the course means hang around, kill and be killed and see what happens. Hell of a foreign policy.

 

[chess9]

"Stay" what course? We don't have a course to stay. That is nonsense. Get out now. We are only making matters worse every day we are there. What are we going to accomplish in the next year? We will only continue to make HUGE mistakes.

Get out now.

-Robert

 

[Moonbeam]

It is absolutely vital we get the chimp out of office and get our asses out of Iraq. We need laws to prevent the Supreme Coup from overthrowing the elected government ever again. Bush is a titanic disaster, a WMD of first degree proportion to American interest. No greater tragedy could have befallen us than to have allowed that turd to become President of our country. We will pay in blood for generations for what that sack of crap has done. We either evolve or we die. We have turned the reins of power over to a simpleton with primitive backward instincts and a nonexistent intellect. He is a living breathing recipe for disaster.

There were no WMD; there was no immediate threat. We are engaged in an illegal occupation. Saddam is out and his sons are dead. We have photos of sexual abuse of American held Arab prisoners. We have put an Iraqi general in Saddam's uniform back in charge. We have thousands of casualties and thousands of Iraqi dead. We have 800 of our young soldiers dead for nothing. We couldn't have screwed up worse with the devil in charge. What sort of nut case stirs up a billion people ready to die for religion and region. Our greatest enemy is our President. Get rid of that worthless sh!t.

Bush isn't just a disaster, he's a catastrophe.

 

[chess9]

Moonbeam:

That may be your best post ever.

-Robert

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: maluckey
While I tend to agree that the situation isn't good, unilaterally pulling out is not an option. Odom may have his opinion, but that what it is........

He (Odom) also stated the following about actions after an abrupt U.S. pullout, which is even more far fetched:

"The Europeans might get scared [of chaos] and go in. There'd probably be a big effort to try to rescue Mr. Bush. But U.S. troops would be gone within six months in any event."

He's dreaming if he thinks that the French, German, or Russian governments would unilaterally enter the fray AFTER the U.S. pullout he envisions. After all, the Russians were kicked out of Afghanistan not too long ago, and have enough problems with militant Islamics at the moment in Chechnya.

I agree, sloppy seconds doesn't even begin to describe that situation. Although Russia may be interested, I don't think they'll ahve any qualms about installing a pro Russia Saddam-like figure.

Although Fallujah may be the best indication of what will happen. Install a (supposedly friendly) dictator, claim victory, retreat to the outskirts.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: chess9
Moonbeam:

That may be your best post ever.

-Robert

Dang, and all I could think about while posting was chess9 jumping on me for a howler.

 

[Zebo]

I take it you don't care for Bush much there moondog. Well He's is'nt the first General of stauture who warned against this before hand. All the retired ones did only to be called "out of the loop" and worse in the case of Generals Zinni, McPeak, Sheehan, and Schwartzkopf almost calling them traitors. It's only the jerks who put thier careers before the country pro war and that's who the press chose to play the war drums on TV. Pathetic.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: sward666

The retired four-star's proposed solution is for the United Nations and the European allies to take charge of political and security arrangements. This formal request from the United States, says Odom, should be accompanied by a unilateral declaration that U.S. forces are leaving even if no one else agrees to come in.

That just sounds ridiculous.

If our forces there are just making a bad situation worse why shouldn't we leave.

Because as bad as it is with us there it would only get worse if we cut and run.

So Iraq becomes one big U.S. Welfare state which requires 1st of the month payments at the tune of 1+ Billion dollars a month for as long as we are there. Face the realities here people. Any government we setup there will be seen as a puppet pro-American government and be over-thrown within a year or so of us pulling out. When you step into a pile of camel shit in the desert you are going to have to pick up your foot and step out of it. The only problem is if you are going to step back or move forward and learn from your mistakes.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: sward666

The retired four-star's proposed solution is for the United Nations and the European allies to take charge of political and security arrangements. This formal request from the United States, says Odom, should be accompanied by a unilateral declaration that U.S. forces are leaving even if no one else agrees to come in.

That just sounds ridiculous.

If our forces there are just making a bad situation worse why shouldn't we leave.

Because as bad as it is with us there it would only get worse if we cut and run.

So Iraq becomes one big U.S. Welfare state which requires 1st of the month payments at the tune of 1+ Billion dollars a month for as long as we are there. Face the realities here people. Any government we setup there will be seen as a puppet pro-American government and be over-thrown within a year or so of us pulling out. When you step into a pile of camel sh!t in the desert you are going to have to pick up your foot and step out of it. The only problem is if you are going to step back or move forward and learn from your mistakes.

Damn you, I had a long reply but I couldn't post it because you defeated the Censor:disgust: