Former Employee Sues Google for discriminating Against White Males

[pmv]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job as a developer at google? To me his behaviour shows all the signs of someone who has issues with women and is very angry at the world for some reason. I have seen his type before.

They are so angry that even when they get counseled they don't change their behaviour and get fired as a result. I would say this guy is on a conservative snowflake crusade for whatever reason and I would also think there are people behind him.

As I said in my previous post people like this cause nothing but problems.

EDIT: I am just going to repeat this -> Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job as a developer at google?

Or any major tech company? You are going to have to have a computer science bachelors minimum. Depends on the job but you will need a very solid understanding of CS fundamentals (data structures and algorithms)

Then because everyone wants to work there they can be as picky as the like.

Well, my doubt is more about the increasingly winner-takes-all nature of the economy, where some groups are elevated and disproportionately rewarded, while others are allowed to fall, potentially without limit. I don't feel that excited about replacing one kind of hierarchy with another.

I agree he's not doing this to make a point about that, nor to make one about how that economy tends to reward people doing things that produce little real value disproportionately over those who actually do the things that are essential - rather he's claiming white males are discriminated against as a group, which I agree is (or should be) a non-starter. So, in that respect, I hope he loses and my doubts are, on reflection, not that relevant.

But I'm just cynical about all these claims about reward or status being based on 'merit'. Much of what the meritocrats do we could happily get by without, and merit has always been interpreted so as to justify existing inequalities.

 

[fskimospy]

Your use of racism to combat racism will not work and has not worked. Trump won because people are tired of this kind of thing.

Nobody cares why you think Trump won and frankly nobody cares about your opinions more generally here as they feels based, not reals based.

That's what I think is so funny about your victim complex on here. You think people don't like your posts because you're conservative when in reality they don't like your posts because they are written poorly and aren't logic based.

 

[dainthomas]

Your use of racism to combat racism will not work and has not worked. Trump won because people are tired of this kind of thing.

It definitely has worked, and you'd have to be obtuse to be unaware of the systemic racism in large swathes of the country.

This guy is an annoying code-bro. While part of him may believe his own drivel, he is likely doing this because he's looking for a fat payday. Look for him to take his windfall settlement and start up a right wing blog or youtube channel for code-bros and other right wing snowflakes to cry about how they're being oppressed by feminists and minorities.

 

[Commodus]

Why "thankfully"? It seems like today it is only ok to express leftist opinions. The left is shutting down open thought, open dialog. It just isn't right in America.

Look at this forum, even. I've called out affirmative action as socially acceptable institutionalized racism against white males, and for this I'm labeled a racist, a bigot here. The left has jumped the shark.

Because his claim is disingenuous and without proof.

He not only used company resources to promote his political ideology, he made it patently obvious through that ideology that he saw women as lesser employees. He's trying to play the martyr when he really just wants to excuse both violating guidelines and his desire to treat women coworkers like dirt. And his 'evidence' doesn't really show a pattern of systemic discrimination.

And for reference: you're labeled a racist and a bigot here for many reasons, not just for trying to excoriate affirmative action. You cling to the white male persecution complex like a life raft. If you experienced even a portion of the actual discrimination that women and minorities face, you'd be crying like a baby.

 

[repoman0]

I've succeeded.

lol. If this was true, you wouldn't be constantly whining about being a victim of racism against white males on the politics section of a random tech forum.

 

[Starbuck1975]

No, he doesn't.

"Others do it too" isn't an excuse, for one thing. And more importantly to me, what Damore said was clearly antagonistic to every woman in the company. "Hey, I'm totally not sexist, but I believe women are genetically inferior at programming and the only way to make it work for them would be to reorganize the company, which isn't going to happen. Hope you don't mind working with me, ladies!" He might as well have been telling them to get back in the kitchen.

Google better have a good excuse for not penalizing the other antagonists from the left end of the spectrum, otherwise it is discrimination.

Like most hypocritical corporations, they will probably settle to make the problem "go away".

 

[Starbuck1975]

I imagine that google will end up settling with him too as they want to avoid embarrassment but the guy doesn't really have a reasonable case. By the way, remember when this guy was trying to argue that he was just examining things based on the 'science' and that it wasn't supposed to be political? lol. I also liked how he listed posts where people tell white men to try and have more empathy as 'anti-Caucasian'.

1) Google didn't fire him for his political views, they fired him for what he wrote, which was not political so much as it was rambling unscientific nonsense that disparaged women.
2) Saying that a company which is more than 2/3rds male is discriminating against men seems...challenging at best.
3) Claiming that a company comprised almost entirely of white and asian people is discriminating against white people seems... also challenging.

I think he may get a settlement because of the leverage he has in putting out embarrassing things about google. It is not designed to win on the merits.

He is not saying they are discriminating against white males. He is saying they are discriminating against white males who hold conservative views, which is a minority population in Silicon Valley.

Unfortunately for Google, political affiliation is a protected class under California law.

 

[fskimospy]

Google better have a good excuse for not penalizing the other antagonists from the left end of the spectrum, otherwise it is discrimination.

Like most hypocritical corporations, they will probably settle to make the problem "go away".

Wouldn't a good reason be 'none of those things were stated in a memo circulated company-wide'?

As others have said, this clown's actions were so toxic he would be almost impossible to use effectively at the company anymore. How productive is a team with him on it going to be when everyone knows he thinks women are inherently inferior to men and that they're crazy?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Affirmative action is only a threat to beta males. If you are good, you are going to succeed. If you are mediocre, you are going to look for excuses for your own failure. Which category are you Slow?

Not everyone can be an alpha.

Also, I've found alpha females and minorities to be equally harsh towards their own beta peers. It's as if once you remove identity politics from the equation, people want to be a part of high performing teams.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Wouldn't a good reason be 'none of those things were stated in a memo circulated company-wide'?

As others have said, this clown's actions were so toxic he would be almost impossible to use effectively at the company anymore. How productive is a team with him on it going to be when everyone knows he thinks women are inherently inferior to men and that they're crazy?

An internal message board is corporate wide dissemination. You're playing semantics.

Having read some of those message boards, it amazes me Google is able to produce much of anything, as the toxicity of their culture extends far beyond that memo.

 

[fskimospy]

He is not saying they are discriminating against white males. He is saying they are discriminating against white males who hold conservative views, which is a minority population in Silicon Valley.

Unfortunately for Google, political affiliation is a protected class under California law.

It's not unfortunate for Google as their reasons for firing him weren't about his conservative ideology unless you think spreading discredited science about how women are inherently inferior employees is somehow 'conservative'.

Also he is most certainly claiming that Google discriminates against white males. You can read his complaint here (complaint #3, specifically): https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/20180108-Damore-Complaint_fs.pdf

 

[fskimospy]

An internal message board is corporate wide dissemination. You're playing semantics.

Having read some of those message boards, it amazes me Google is able to produce much of anything, as the toxicity of their culture extends far beyond that memo.

It's probably a really bad idea to take your idea of a company's internal culture from a plaintiff's motion. The chances of it actually being representative are very small and you have to remember that conservatives are really prone to perceiving themselves as victims. I mean if you look at some of the things he singled out as 'anti-caucasian bias' they are laughable.

 

[bshole]

I've succeeded. That doesn't mean I don't see the discrimination happening. I don't agree with it against any demographic of people, white males included in that. I'm a bit less racist than you are, really. I go one race further and include ALL races in my anti-discrimination stance. You and your ilk defend racism against one particular group, however.

The ONLY discrimination I have ever seen in my workplace is the discrimination of non-performers. People who are not productive eventually get laid off, people who are productive don't. Where the fuck do you work where performance isn't the metric?

I am in engineering so it patently easy to tell if somebody isn't working out. This may be different than other fields.

 

[fskimospy]

The ONLY discrimination I have ever seen in my workplace is the discrimination of non-performers. People who are not productive eventually get laid off, people who are productive don't. Where the fuck do you work where performance isn't the metric?

How do you account for obvious racial bias in hiring?

 

[Starbuck1975]

It's probably a really bad idea to take your idea of a company's internal culture from a plaintiff's motion. The chances of it actually being representative are very small and you have to remember that conservatives are really prone to perceiving themselves as victims. I mean if you look at some of the things he singled out as 'anti-caucasian bias' they are laughable.

You seem really concerned about all of this.

His complaints may be laughable, but the response from his coworkers and peers is terrifying.

I say let the system work:

Google has two options:

Settle out of court, which is an admission they screwed up.

Seek vindication in court but also risk major embarrassment given the ridiculous types of speech they are apparently willing to tolerate.

 

[bshole]

Not everyone can be an alpha.

Also, I've found alpha females and minorities to be equally harsh towards their own beta peers. It's as if once you remove identity politics from the equation, people want to be a part of high performing teams.

Yea in my field, betas don't last long at all. You are expected to be creative, able to solve problems on your own and do rapid prototyping. If you can't do these things, you are useless to the company as a software engineer.

 

[bshole]

How do you account for obvious racial bias in hiring?

Since my boss is also one of my best friends and he does the hiring I know for a fact that he has absolutely no bias whatsoever in hiring (other than competence). The same holds for the VP of engineering who used to be my boss.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yep. I wish these kinds of lawsuits didn't exist. If he felt it was wrong for him to be fired because his opinions were valuable, then his case is one for public opinion not the court. Personally, I think his thesis was quite a bit distorted but not damaging to a corporate culture I would want. But I don't own Google, so let them decide.

It's a lawsuit because he wants money.

I have mixed opinions about the stuff he wrote, but I didn't especially agree with the firing either. That said, Google had a legal right to do so.

 

[Starbuck1975]

How do you account for obvious racial bias in hiring?

You diversify the pipeline. At the end of the day, companies value profits and performance above all other things. If you have a diverse talent pipeline, the hiring takes care of itself. You can't fix a process by trying to influence outcomes at its end.

When I look to hire engineers, pedigree of education and military service move to the front of the line. For me, that pipeline is becoming increasingly diverse.

 

[bshole]

Never looked at the data, but this place did....

Hired, a tech startup that specializes in helping companies find talented candidates, said that the average black software engineer on its service is 49 percent more likely to get hired than a white person. Those candidates, however, typically make $10,000 less per year than their white counterparts, according to Hired's "2017 State of Global Tech Salaries" report.

"It's unclear if African American candidates are receiving more offers because of diversity initiatives, a lower preferred salary, or a combination of those and other factors," said the report, which was released Thursday.

The report confirms that when it comes to hiring software engineers, the tech industry has quite a few biases based on ethnicity. Latino and Asian candidates, for example, are more likely to receive salaries that are more on par with white candidates, but they are also less likely to get hired. According to the report, Latino candidates are 26 percent less likely to get hired than white people while Asians are a whopping 45 percent less likely. They do, however, receive salaries that are on par with white software engineers.

According to that blacks are much more likely to get hired than whites but get a $10K less starting salary. To me that is all negotiation. You NEVER settle for what they offer you. Back in 1998, I was offered this job for $50k and negotiated that to $60k. I had multiple offers at the time so it was sellers market so to speak.

https://www.inc.com/salvador-rodriguez/hired-salaries-report.html

 

[fskimospy]

You seem really concerned about all of this.

His complaints may be laughable, but the response from his coworkers and peers is terrifying.

I say let the system work:

Google has two options:

Settle out of court, which is an admission they screwed up.

Seek vindication in court but also risk major embarrassment given the ridiculous types of speech they are apparently willing to tolerate.

Huh? I’m not particularly concerned with it and I’m fine with letting the system work. I guarantee Google will not be admitting they screwed up as part of any settlement. Companies settle cases they would otherwise win all the time, and the guy at the 70% male company complaining that men are discriminated against there seems like an easy one.

The guy is obviously attempting to embarrass Google to make some money off them. If he can get away with it good on him, it doesn’t make his arguments less dumb though. It’s another case of conservatives viewing a lack of special treatment in their favor as discrimination against them.

 

[fskimospy]

You diversify the pipeline. At the end of the day, companies value profits and performance above all other things. If you have a diverse talent pipeline, the hiring takes care of itself. You can't fix a process by trying to influence outcomes at its end.

When I look to hire engineers, pedigree of education and military service move to the front of the line. For me, that pipeline is becoming increasingly diverse.

That's what Google's diversity initiatives are all about. Regardless, empirical research shows pretty conclusively that simply having a diverse pipeline does not make the hiring take care of itself. People tend to hire those who look and act like themselves. In fields that are dominated by white men, all else being equal white men are the most likely to be hired.

 

[woolfe9998]

He is not saying they are discriminating against white males. He is saying they are discriminating against white males who hold conservative views, which is a minority population in Silicon Valley.

Unfortunately for Google, political affiliation is a protected class under California law.

Sort of. Political activity outside of work is protected. If it's in the work environment, they can fire you if it's disruptive, impacts your work, or even conflicts with the employer's business model. Under the law, Google has pretty wide latitude given that this was a memo circulated within the company. Had it been a Facebook posting, he'd have a better case.

 

[urvile]

It's just a bizarre way of thinking and acting. To me it isn't the behaviour of a well rounded individual regardless of his political ideology. The guys going to be a serious problem so he has to go. It's like the guy I was talking about earlier who couldn't take constructive criticism. That's how you learn. It's part of being a software engineer and a productive team member. The guys a problem so he had to go. Ultimately it all comes down to money someone like that affects productivity.

In my mind 🙂 there is no difference between the two.

 

[bshole]

Sort of. Political activity outside of work is protected. If it's in the work environment, they can fire you if it's disruptive, impacts your work, or even conflicts with the employer's business model. Under the law, Google has pretty wide latitude given that this was a memo circulated within the company. Had it been a Facebook posting, he'd have a better case.

Say what? In California, if you are white nationalist calling for elimination of all blacks and Jews, your company has no recourse? Even if your company gets boycotted because of this employee? Even if he costs your company billions and sends your company into bankruptcy?