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Former Christians and theists, what was your "deconversion" like?

R

reitz

Elite Member
What caused you to question your beliefs?

How did you arrive at atheism [edit] (or your new set of beliefs)?

What was the transition like? Was it stressful? Was it difficult? Was it a long, drawn-out process, or a quick epiphany?

How did your family, friends, and loved-ones react to your newfound [dis]belief?

How has it impacted your outlook on life?

Feel free to answer only some of my questions, or answer questions I've neglected to ask. Feel free to post your own questions for others to answer.

Thread rules:

One sentence answers add nothing to the discussion at hand. Please don't waste your time. If you only wish to bash others' religious beliefs, please save it. No one cares if you think all Christians (or Jews or Hindus or Wiccans or Muslims) are stupid and deluded, or that religion has caused more problems than it has cured. There are plenty of [insert your favorite belief]-bashing threads already; go post in one of them and don't waste my bandwidth.

Hard-core Christians: No one participating in this thread wants to be saved; we don't want to hear the Good News, and we don't care that we're going to spend eternity in hell. We're happy with and secure in our non-belief; unless you can add something positive to this thread (and given the subject matter I fail to see how that's possible) please post elsewhere.

Everyone else: Take some time to organize your thoughts and post your experiences; feel free to add your own ideas to the discussion. Please be respectful; if I wanted to start a flamewar, there are a multitude of other topics I could have chosen. I want a dialogue about others' experiences with becoming non-believers, not another pointless belief- (or lack thereof) bashing session.

If you don't like my rules, then piss off and start your own thread. That is all.


[edit] Thread expanded to include former Christians and theists who have chosen a new belief system.



For me, the transition was relatively easy and painless. I've always been a logical person, and I've felt myself to be a "free-thinker" at least since my sophomore year in college (age 19, six-and-a-half years ago). I grew up attending a very liberal Catholic church in a predominately (>70%, IIRC) Catholic town where religion remains a personal issue and most people seem to take their beliefs for granted. I never understood what a "fundamental Christian" was, nor had I heard of the term "saved" (the Christian meaning) until I attended college. Until I met my first hardcore Christians my freshman year, I always just assumed that religion was basically the same for everyone: something to be done on Sundays and holidays, with little impact on daily life.

My family attended a very liberal (even by Western PA standards) Catholic church, where the focus was more on becoming responsible, moral adults, instead of the "fire and brimstone" so typical of the more conservative Catholic churches. I was never indoctrinated with religious beliefs; our religious-ed classes were more about presenting multiple viewpoints, and my mother always answered religious and philosophical questions with "Well, I believe..." rather than giving answers. To me, it was normal to pick and choose which mainstream religious beliefs fit (whatever your brand of Christianity) and fill in the gaps yourself.

My hardcore Christian friends are credited with starting my doubts about the position of the Roman Catholic Church as the "one true religion" (say what you like, but Central/Eastern PA Christians really hate the Catholic Church). After I left college after my junior year, I had a brief stint where I actually tried to become a fundy Christian, but no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't make myself believe the way my hardcore Christian friends did (or claimed to). For two years I just kind of drifted with a belief in a generic god in the sky but no real religion to identify with.

I began to take issue with the fundamental Christian beliefs because I could not resolve their literal interpretation of the Bible with 2000 years of scientific advancements. Specifically, I see Genesis as a direct contradiction to evolution (and my many Biology classes in college make it impossible for me to just ignore an entire branch of science in favor of a two thousand-year-old book). The fundy Christian approach to non-believers/people never exposed to Christianity became a sticking point for me. The answers I got (God knows what's in the hearts of Hindus and Muslims; unless you're saved, you can't spend eternity in paradise) never resolved the question for me. How could a just and loving god condemn me to hell for not being saved, when I had tried so hard to become like my fundy Christian friends? How could a just and loving god condemn to hell a good and righteous Jew, while allowing into heaven a serial killer who repents on his deathbed?

About three years ago, I just gave up and threw all of my beliefs out the window, admitted I didn't have any more answers than anyone, and became an agnostic. From there I just reasoned my way through it. Once I hit that point, it was easy. I only formed beliefs that had a logical, reasonable basis, and discarded the beliefs of others that didn't. I now consider myself an agnostic atheist: I do not believe in the Christian (or the Jewish or Muslim) god; it just doesn't make any sense to me anymore. I'm ambivalent towards the existence of a higher power or greater truth; it my be there, but I have no way of knowing and I've never seen any evidence in favor of it. I resolve the remaining questions by admitting that I personally can never know the answers, but through the inevitable progress of science and reason, humanity will eventually learn the truth.

I experienced very few "repercussions" as a result of my change of beliefs (in contrast to many of my friends who lost friendships and alienated family members over their lack of belief). Most of my friends are agnostic or atheist themselves (I've lost touch with all of my hardcore Christian friend from college) so my transition was a non-event to them. My family is very open-minded, and while both of my brothers still believe in god (one is a non-practicing Catholic, the other is best described as a very spiritual Unitarian) they accept and tolerate my beliefs. My mother probably wishes that I still believed in something and would have any future children babtized and raised religious, but her attitude is that my beliefs are up to me only and leaves it at that. My girlfriend of five years, I was surprised to learn six months ago, has always been an unbeliever just going through the motions, so she didn't have an opinion either way. She's a little afraid of what her parents (staunch Catholics) will think, but my confidence in my new beliefs has helped her with her own questions, so instead of worrying about what her parents will think of me, she's more concerned now with how to tell them about her own lack of belief.

I've noticed a profound change in my outlook on life since I became a non-believer. I've become more tolerant of other beliefs and attitudes (whether related to religion or not) and I've become more skeptical of everything in life. I've become far less judgemental, and I've learned to see the value in cultures, attitudes, and ideas very different from my own. I've begun to apreciate art (even abstract art) and have a greater appreciation for styles of music I never saw value in before. My political ideas have become more socially liberal; when before I was a staunch Republikan, I now find myself supporting candidates much further left of my former political views (I am and probably always will be a fiscal conservative, but I now abhor the influence of the religious right on American politics and the Republikan party). I find myself rooting for the underdog more, and I'm more open to ideas from the oposite viewpoint. I'm happier, healthier, and it's easier to understand and accept people much different than myself. I see the world now with both eyes wide open, and instead of trying to explain my experiences through my philosophical beliefs, I now define those beliefs through my experiences. I firmly believe that my lack of belief has made me a better, more intelligent, open-minded, and well-rounded person.
 
I've never been religious and have been an atheist for as long as I remember. Not all atheists are converts. 🙂
 
I have never beleived in a god. Both of my parents are christian and I was raised in a faithful house, though we almost never went to church. As soon as I was old enough to decided for myself (11 or 12), I told my dad that I didn't believe in god. I'm just too scientifically minded to believe that there is a being out there somewhere that is supposed to be loving and all powerful, yet allows the crap that happens in the world to go on. Child molestation, murder, rape, etc... I don't think so...

To this day, my mom still doesn't believe me. She still says "Just leave it to god, he'll take care of you" and I give her a angry look and she gets one of those "What?" looks on her face. They refuse to acknowledge my disbelief. It's more annoying than anything else really.

Anyway, I'm not a convert.
 
first of all, I don't think that I'm either agnostic or atheist. I still believe in God or at least want to believe. I used to be lds though so my "falling away" from the lds church is what you'll be hearing about. and I don't want anyone to think that I'm slamming the lds church because I think it's a good thing for the most part .. it just isn't for me. oh, and my explanation will probably be a little shorter than yours. I might go back and read what you wrote after responding.

What caused you to question your beliefs?
I had been doing everything I was supposed to for seventeen years and still didn't believe any of it was true.

What was the transition like? Was it stressful? Was it difficult? Was it a long, drawn-out process, or a quick epiphany?
I decided to give it one more month before giving up on it completely so I did everything they told me I'm supposed to do to gain a testimony (reading scriptures every day, praying, all that stuff). I really did want to know. when that month ended, some more time went by and one day I just decided that I had no desire to continue pretending to believe in something that I didn't. I just quit going to church, quit going to church activities, etc. that was quite a sudden change since I had been the perfect mormon boy up to that point. no, it wasn't difficult or stressful. I felt great afterward and still have no regrets.

How did your family, friends, and loved-ones react to your newfound [dis]belief?
they respect my beliefs and I respect theirs .. for the most part. my parents still make some efforts to reconvert me every once in a while and won't even consider the idea that the church isn't true. not that sticking up for your beliefs is necessarily a bad thing .. it depends on how you go about doing it.

How has it impacted your outlook on life?
😀
 
I have never belonged to any religion. I have been Atheist/Agnostic/heathen all the time. I have attended church services of both catholic and protestant affiliations and often it was quite interesting. While doing a HS exchange year in the US I extensively attended a Southern Baptist Church including Sunday school. It was quite interesting, although in Sunday school I seemed to be a little trouble maker because of my questions - many things told there seemed illogical, and forced me to ask questions for explaination. All in all it was an interesting experience (although I had trouble to get a grasp of the logic in their teachings) and the priest always proclaimed one day I would be saved and baptized and bring the Southern Baptist faith to Germany. Well, that hasn't happened yet and most probably never will....
 
Ever since I was a kid I was cursed with thought. I started questioning the Bible and the validity of the most commonly used interpretations of it when I was 7 or 8, soon followed by questioning the human rights of existence. I always hoped for the existence of a being superior to us, and although I do not doubt there are alien races far more advanced and intelligent than us, I do strongly doubt an all-mighty creator.

I need proof, while all major religions seem to be based on exceptance of unlikely/unrealistic things.

Edit: Typo fixed.

Edit 2: My parents always encouraged thought, and had no problems with it. My brother and sisters had gone before me, and my parents weren't fundies who'd try to beat it into their children.
 
Deslocke,

Thanks for your story. I've expanded the thread to include people like you who fall into categories I hadn't previously identified.

Nohr,

I realize that. 😉 Like Dreslocke, I think my thread ignored people like you...If you don't mind answering a few questions:

What was it like growing up as an atheist? Are your family atheists as well? (I'm assuming that to be the case)

Did your family celebrate "Christian" holidays like Christmas and Easter?

When you were younger, how did you view the theistic ideas of friends and classmates?

How religious, overall, was the society you grew up in? How did that affect you (if at all)?

Did you ever feel isloated/ostracized from your peers due to your lack of belief?

How do you think your lifelong atheism affected your development (as opposed to more recent converts like myself)?

Feel free to add anything I might have missed, or ignore questions that might be irrelevant to you.
 
Is it true the Mormons have rehab for homo's?? They say they can cure em...make em stop doing those nasty things.
 
Where do I start? I have plenty of memories of my family, my father, mother, and sister, before the divorce; occasionally, extended family comes into view. I have plenty of happy memories, and plenty of sad ones. Birthday parties seem to be a perennial favorite of my subconscious ? when everyone in my family came together for celebration of the fact that one of us survived another year (😉). Times spent with my dad fishing, time spent following my mom around before school started, helping her set up her room. And, likewise, memories of my parents fighting, their divorce, and all that followed.

But I have no memory of any religious teaching. None. We went to Mass whenever we visited my Aunt Carol in Portland, but other than that, nothing. It was something I never dwelled on as a child. Pain was never anything out of the ordinary for me, and so, asking why people suffered or why people died was never a question I asked, to my knowledge, at least. I just accepted it as a fact of life.

When I was about nine, I think, my sister started going to Cornerstone United Methodist Church. I never thought much of it, she was going with her friends, and it seemed to make her happy. After she had been going for six months, my mom started taking me and attending the services. She always stuck me in Sunday School. My first personal experience with organized religion was drawing pictures of things I didn?t understand.

Time went on, I kept going to Sunday School, sitting in front of the church one Sunday a month, like every other church in Western civilization. My sister moved away when I was ten, she was fifteen. She went to live with my dad, alienating her from our mom, putting me on ?Mom?s side?, which seemed to be the beginning of one of the most pathetic feuds I?ve ever experienced. I started going to the junior high youth group when I got to, appropriately, junior high. Made friends, the same crowd I spend a lot of my time with today ? Trevor, Kyle, Matt, Jes, Donna, Ashley, Megan, etc. But, still? I never really gave a rat?s ass about what they were teaching. It was a social time for me.

My sophomore year of high school came and went, Cornerstone got a new youth leader. She was young, intelligent, and fun to hang out with. I went through my ?punchy phase?, as Trevor calls it, and my awkward and pitifully misfitting gothic phase. I began to try to deal with the emotions I was feeling ? the emotions most every other teenager goes through. Anger, frustration, that awkward sense of not knowing how to handle social situations, the realization that you don?t fit in. Anywhere.

And, yet, Lisa was consistent and accepting, through all of that. Although I don?t think anyone?s ever realized it, I toyed with the idea of suicide quite a few times. It was the friendship and acceptance of my friends and, mostly from my Cornerstone friends, that kept me, I think, from ever considering it seriously. (whether I would go through it, period, is another matter and another discussion) All throughout this time, I was having discussions with Kyle, Trevor, Matt, and Lisa, among others. Debating God, debating theology, our existence, and everything else most people discuss at one point or another. Those Bible studies during the spring of my sophomore year of high school are some of the happiest times I?ve known.

For once, I felt accepted, I felt like someone cared, like people wanted to hear what I had to say. It was a new feeling. So, when I found myself discussing Christ and his divinity, I found no logical problem in accepting the fact that Christ was divine. After all, the Bible says so. And it hasn?t been disproved so far. Life got much, much better for the? ten months or so after that. I got involved in a more intensive Bible study, got involved in a leadership team, made friends. I thought I developed some spiritual discipline. Daily prayer, worship. I gave up all my secular music. I remember, at one point, I had all my radio presets set to the one Christian radio station in Western Washington.

It?s funny, because it was all going well, except to the point where Lisa and her fiancé were fired. They resigned, technically, but during the rehiring process, it became evident, to the youth, exactly how fvcked up the leadership of our church was. How they were ?numbers-driven?, driven to build the congregation, not better it.

To think of it? that?s when it all started crumbling. Not in a huge way, but it was the first brick out of a very, very large wall.

I stopped going to Cornerstone as often after that; I went to the service, still, but I was never as involved in the youth group after that. I started dating Jen in October of that year? funny thing is, if not for Jen, I probably would have given up my faith a lot sooner. Don?t know if that?s a good thing or a bad thing. I split my time then between Cornerstone, Eastridge Baptist, and ZOE. But, in the midst of work, school, college and scholarship applications, and Jen, I never really had time for god. I never sat down and really devoted myself to prayer, or to Bible study, or to meditation. Oh, I said I did. Especially to make Jen happy, to appease her sense of self-righteousness, her desire for a ?godly? husband. To be honest, not much really happened in the way of my faith during that entire year.

Jen and I broke up in October, a year later. All of a sudden, I was on my own, emotionally, physically and spiritually. If not for Kyle, I think I would have sunk into my own spiritual wasteland. Thanks to his incessant prodding, I got involved at University Presbyterian, later at Mars Hill. I even went on a mission trip. I had a great time during the year. I really did! I loved my first year of college? it was eye-opening, challenging, refreshing.

And, yet, during Spring quarter? something changed. The devotion I felt towards UPC, Mars Hill, Cornerstone? all of that began to fade. I lost interest in Bible study, prayer, worship. Sometime, maybe about three weeks ago, I sat down one night, and examined exactly what I believed. And I realized that I could no longer say, with conviction and certainty, that Jesus Christ was the divine that so many say he is.

That was the evening I truly gave up my Christianity.

And, so I suppose, now begins the true purpose of my entire dissertation? the logic behind my decision.
 
God?s Personality

There?s a quote from John Scopes in the 1920?s?"God created man in His image and likeness, and man - being a gentleman - returned the favor." This sums up most of my thoughts on the subject of God and his personality. I find it rather ridiculous to think that an immortal, omnipotent, omniscient being would be limited to the same emotions that we are. Emotions are a beautiful thing; however, they are also extremely limiting.

Then one asks, what does God feel? Well, does he feel anything? That?s not something I?m sure I can even answer. I would imagine that the emotional musings of a deity are beyond my comprehension. From what I have seen in the Old Testament and New, God behaves as a jealous lover and a loving parent, alternately. I ask the question, why would God even give a sh!t? If God is truly omnipotent and omniscient, He would have no need for our worship or our attention. To me, the god of the Christian Bible is a petty, jealous, needy deity.

Need for Redemption

I have no doubt that every person, somewhere, deep down inside, knows that they are selfish. Is this a bad thing? Ostensibly, yes. We are imperfect beings. No one doubts that. The issue comes up when discussing God?s role in this picture.

What role is God supposed to take in this whole picture? Is he our executor, our judge and jury? Or is he the kindly, forgiving guide? Is he somewhere in between, bartering for our soul, seeing if we can do enough and make the right moves to reach heaven?

I remember thinking about this? why do we need redemption at all? After all, God is omnipotent, he can do anything. Can?t he? Why can?t he just forgive us? The answer I always got was that even if God forgave us, it wouldn?t matter ? we would be destroyed once we tried to enter God?s presence.

But, wait a minute. God is omnipotent ? He can do anything. Why does it matter our form on this earth? God knows our nature, he knows our thoughts, he knows our apologies. Could he not accept us as we are? Is not forgiveness from the Eternal the ultimate pardon?

And, yet, there is some limitation on this. That our natures are not, in some way, compatible with God?s. Why? I still don?t understand this. By saying that a sacrifice is needed at all, that for some reason, God?s forgiveness and our penitence isn?t enough, we are placing limitations on God. Not ourselves. God. I find it ironic that we, most limited of all spiritual beings, are the ones who have the arrogance to define what God can and cannot do.

The Divinity of Christ

Ah, the main issue, I think. Was Christ the Son of Man, as the Bible claims? Was he a great moral revolutionary, a leader of his time? A heretic?

Few people would doubt that Christ ever existed. After all, the life of Jesus Christ is mentioned by Josephus (there are literary issues with that as well, but that is beyond the scope of these words), and in some perfunctory reports by various Roman officials. He is always spoken of as a moral revolutionary, one who challenged the religious order, challenged the people to look beyond the legalistic attitude perpetuated by the Pharisees. ?You have heard that it was said, ?Do not commit adultery.? But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.? (Matthew 5:27-28) Jesus claimed that it wasn?t just the actions that mattered, it was the heart. It served to show every person that they are sinful. ?There is no one righteous, not even one.? (Romans 3:10) No one could earn their way to heaven; they had to be admitted, or ask for forgiveness.

There is no doubt that Christ was a revolutionary leader. He preached a message of unconditional acceptance, of living a life beyond mere legality. But was he truly the Son of God? I don?t know. Many New Age adherents would claim that he was a Master, one who knew the true nature of the ?god within us?. Christians claim he is the son of God. Islam and Judaism both acknowledge that he was a great moral leader.

And, yet, there is a bias inherent in the system. The Bible, the great book that testifies to his greatness, is not the same book it was two-thousand years ago. Throughout the political struggles and strife that affected the church in the? early fourth century, I believe, the bible went through a series of revisions. What exactly happened due to these revisions? Most Christians claim that through the grace of God, the original Bible, word for word, has been retained.

Yet, how many of us actually know this? Have we studied the original scriptures? Have we studied the Latin Vulgate and the Textus Receptus? The two slightly different versions of the earliest record of the gospels, dating from around 400AD. What about the Apocrypha? Their words conflict with the spotless image of Jesus portrayed in the four gospels and Paul and John?s words. Are the Apocrypha wrong? Or do they simply contradict this image of Christ as the Son of Man?

Is Jesus of Nazareth the Son of God? Or is he simply a great moral revolutionary of his time? I dare say, for now, I hold to the latter.

Universal Revelation

This is nowhere near a new argument. This has been an issue ever since Christianity became. Julian the Apostate used it as one of his main arguments against Christianity when he rejected Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire.

But, it begs to be asked. For thousands of years before Christ?s coming, billions of people have lived. What happens to them as a result of Christ?s requirement for salvation? They?ve no chance to hear the gospel of Christ nor accept him. Are they doomed to hell? Or are they judged according to a different standard?

The same question exists for every human on earth who has not been exposed to the Christian gospel. But wait, you say, missionaries have circled the globe. They have explored regions of the world that no one else dared to. However? after Christ died in 33AD (?), Christianity wasn?t more than a cult until several centuries later; even then, its reach was limited to the confines of the Roman Empire. Even then, even in the middle ages, the Enlightenment, it was limited mostly to Europe. When Columbus, Coronado, Pizarro explored the North American continent, they supposedly brought the gospel with them.

I ask you, what person accepts the religion of a thief? Of a warmonger, hateful, spiteful, deceitful men? What sane person believes in the mercy of a god who those men endorsed? It is no wonder Americans gave their lives rather than convert to Christianity.

Likewise, the Eastern world had no widespread exposure to Christianity until the mid-1800?s, I believe. Are they to be held to the same standards? Either Christianity is not the only way, or the vast, vast majority of humankind is destined for eternal damnation with no say on their part, no mercy shown to them.

I dare say, any who advocate ?universal revelation? as the excuse for an exclusivist, rigid theology are stricken with unconscionable ignorance.
 
---
These are my reasons as best I can describe them. They are incomplete, immature, and poorly explained. But they are my thoughts. They are nothing unique, they have been brought up and discussed for thousands of years, and will not stop being discussed after me. But they are doubts enough for me to step back from this Christian theology and ask myself, ?What do I truly believe?? To quote Plato, ?the unexamined life is not worth living.? I?m living my life, for the first time in years.

I?m not sad, I?m not depressed, and I?m not angry. Confused and uncertain, surely. Pensive, no doubt. These last three weeks have been amazing for me. I don?t know what I believe; I don?t know who to listen to, who to believe. All I know is that I have an amazing community of people around me, close friends and family, all with their own point of view and their own experiences, their own beliefs to share and discuss.

I am not scared. I was, once. I was frightened of what would happen to me after this world has ended for me. I was frightened of a non-existent afterlife, a short, meaningless stint on this cruel, heartless planet.

I?m not scared anymore. I don?t fear the life this world has to offer, the afterlife that will come. It will take care of itself, as surely as this god I seek will someday look after me.

(I apologize for the campy nature of the post, I originally wrote this a year ago after I "gave up" my Christian faith)
 
Originally posted by: reitz
Deslocke,

Thanks for your story. I've expanded the thread to include people like you who fall into categories I hadn't previously identified.

Nohr,

I realize that. 😉 Like Dreslocke, I think my thread ignored people like you...If you don't mind answering a few questions:

What was it like growing up as an atheist? Are your family atheists as well? (I'm assuming that to be the case)

Did your family celebrate "Christian" holidays like Christmas and Easter?

When you were younger, how did you view the theistic ideas of friends and classmates?

How religious, overall, was the society you grew up in? How did that affect you (if at all)?

Did you ever feel isloated/ostracized from your peers due to your lack of belief?

How do you think your lifelong atheism affected your development (as opposed to more recent converts like myself)?

Feel free to add anything I might have missed, or ignore questions that might be irrelevant to you.
Click to expand...

In my case: I am from East Germany so society was officially mostly atheistic. My family in general is not religeous at all (not even my Grandparants or other distant reletives), the only religeous person in my family was a sister of my grandma that believed in destiny (aka everything is predetermined by God), and she was miserable.

The Eastern upbringing (school and stuff) of course encouraged a thinking that believing in something like God is silly. Also I remember when I was young, there was a catholic church right next to my house, and a bunch of nuns was living there too. So as youngsters we were always curious and often tried to peek inside to see what was going on there. The nuns when they saw us tried to invite us inside. Dunno if they tried that in a creepy way but we would always get scared and ran away 😀

We had a few religious peeps in class. They were free to not join all these commy organisations for kids in the East, without much trouble it seemed. So sometimes we would get jealous that the Churchies didnt have to attend this crap that we others "had to". But other than that we didnt think to much about it. Actually when I was young I was totally sure that no sane person would truly believe there is a God to guide and that created everything, i just thaught that is something they say out of tradition, because centuries ago ppl didnt know better. It was only until I grew older that I realized that ppl would genuinely believe there is a higher being (which I still thaught was silly back then)

We still celebrated all the Christian festivities and remotely you also knew what was being celebrated (the meaning behind Easter...) but u didn't really think about that - it is more like a tradition, that is roots in Christian Church didn't matter to anybody really....

Now I live in the Western part of germany where most ppl (basically all) are at least baptized and usually also confirmated. But I neither feel isolated or anything . PPl here view religion totally different than in the States and even though they are baptized few ppl actually live their religion by going to church or whatever. While there might be an occasional "bibla fanatic" I noticed ppl view God and religiousness more in the sense of nurturing ones soul, ethical guidance, church as a place to look into oneself and reflect... instead of believing the bible is a history book. It is more that priests use stories in the bible as analogies to events in the real world nowadays and to show the right(in an ethical, moral) path or make ppl think about certain aspects of life/society

So I found that religious ppl here are see religion more as something to help them taking the right path, reflect on ones actions, celebrating traditions... than fear burning in hell or going to heaven or that God will be the judge at the end of your life.

at least that is how it seems to me.
 
I don't mean to crap on the thread..

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Few people would doubt that Christ ever existed. After all, the life of Jesus Christ is mentioned by Josephus
Click to expand...

Christians claim that the Jewish historian
Josephus recorded information about Jesus in his book _Jewish
Antiquities _ (published c. 93 - 94 C.E.) It is true that this
book contains information about the three false Messiahs, Yehuda
of Galilee, Theudas and Benjamin the Egyptian, and it is true
that the character of Jesus appears to be based on all of them
in part, but none of them can be regarded as the historical
Jesus. Moreover, in the book of _Acts_, these people are
mentioned as being different people to Jesus and so modern
Christianity actually rejects any connection between them and
Jesus. In the Christian edited versions of the _Jewish
Antiquities_ there are two passages dealing with Jesus as
portrayed in Christian religious works. Neither of these
passages are found in the original version of the _Jewish
Antiquities_ which was preserved by the Jews. The first passage
(XVII,3,3) was quoted by Eusebius writing in c. 320 C.E. and so
we can conclude that it was added in some time between the time
Christians got hold of the _Jewish Antiquities_ and c. 320 C.E.
It is not known when the other passage (XX,9,1) was added in.
Neither passage is based on any reliable sources. It is
fraudulent to claim that these passages were written by Josephus
and that they provide evidence for Jesus. They were written by
Christian redactors and were based purely on Christian belief.
Click to expand...

There's much more on this, and the rest of the historical Jesus found Here
about half way down the page.
 
Originally posted by: IGBT
You wrote all that by your self??
Click to expand...

Yes, I did. 😛

melchoir

- (there are literary issues with that as well, but that is beyond the scope of these words) I understand some of the issues that stem from Josephus's words, but there is no one definitive answer (despite your link) - I have gotten a dozen different answers from a dozen different sources.
 
Nohr,

I realize that. 😉 Like Dreslocke, I think my thread ignored people like you...If you don't mind answering a few questions:
Click to expand...
I'll try my best.
What was it like growing up as an atheist? Are your family atheists as well? (I'm assuming that to be the case)
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My parents are atheists but I don't think that was always the case. When I was little I vaguely remember going to church so they must've converted at some point, but I'm not sure what the whole story is there. I wasn't raised as an atheist, my parents let me decide for myself.
Did your family celebrate "Christian" holidays like Christmas and Easter?
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We celebrated christmas though not for the same reasons others did. It was just a fun time, give and get presents, spend time together, that sorta thing. On easter we'd get chocolate bunnies and eggs, but that was the extent of it.
When you were younger, how did you view the theistic ideas of friends and classmates?
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When I was still in elementary school I didn't really understand how strong my classmates belief in their religion was. At the time I kinda thought it was a strange joke I guess, it seemed a little silly. I remember once when I was in 5th grade I was in class it was storming outside. The lights flickered and I made the comment "stupid god", kind of a sarcastic remark type thing. The rest of the class lightly gasped and looked at me as if I'd just flipped off the teacher (bad back then, probably a regular occurance nowadays..). Was a bit of an eye opener.
How religious, overall, was the society you grew up in? How did that affect you (if at all)?
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I lived in Canada up until I was 11, then moved down here to the US. I couldn't tell you what religion was practiced where I used to live up there, it wasn't of much concern to me at the time. I think people were quite religious but I wasn't involved.
Did you ever feel isloated/ostracized from your peers due to your lack of belief?
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In high school when I was more aware of my own beliefs I sometimes felt a bit alone. If there were other atheists they tended to keep quiet about it, like myself. I'm not saying that other kids were on some sort of witch hunt or anything. I wanted things to go as smoothly as possible so I kept that aspect of my life hidden at school.
How do you think your lifelong atheism affected your development (as opposed to more recent converts like myself)?
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Boy that's a tough one. I think it's given me a different outlook on people and the world as a whole. Not sure how to explain that but it's all I can come up with at the moment.
 
I thaught the common understanding is that the person Jesus did actually live and die on the cross (a common capital punishment back then) and that he was born somewhen between 5-9 BC.
 
I understand some of the issues that stem from Josephus's words, but there is no one definitive answer (despite your link) - I have gotten a dozen different answers from a dozen different sources.
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I thaught the common understanding is that the person Jesus did actually live and die on the cross (a common capital punishment back then) and that he was born somewhen between 5-9 BC.
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I don't want to ruin the thread so I'll leave it alone and not argue.
 
I'll give the short version: I grew up in a family of strict Fundamental Baptists (the kind who like to get hung up on denominational quarrels such as the supiorority of the King James Bible and how women shouldn't wear pants,) anyway I rebelled against it as soon as I was away from home. Then "returned to the fold" for a few years after dealing with the harshness of adult life. But by this time I'd sharpened my critical thinking skills and after a period of blind enthusiasim I started questioning everything and eventually left it all behind.

I went through a period of anger and wrote a lot of philosophy essays and personal journal entries that dealt with my disillusionment of religion. My wife also grew up in the same type of home and she also went through a sort of breaking away, although not to the degree that I did.

There's a bumper sticker you can buy online from the Freethought Society that says: "Fundamentalism Stops A Thinking Mind."

I've seen the truth to this statement not just in my own life but in many other's as well.

I also like the one that says: "Faith Is The Glorification of Ignorance."
 
Originally posted by: melchoir
I understand some of the issues that stem from Josephus's words, but there is no one definitive answer (despite your link) - I have gotten a dozen different answers from a dozen different sources.
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I thaught the common understanding is that the person Jesus did actually live and die on the cross (a common capital punishment back then) and that he was born somewhen between 5-9 BC.
Click to expand...

I don't want to ruin the thread so I'll leave it alone and not argue.
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Sorry to interrupt reitz - I'll be out of this thread soon.

Melchoir - please go to this post to further discuss the above

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I was raised similarly, but being in middle Georgia, the fundamentalists could be seen down the block (in any direction) first-hand.
St. Joseph's cancelled the 7th and 8th grade programs, and my parents didn't have the money for the other good schools, so into public school I went. After getting adjusted to that, I got confirmed, and actually upon that, began actually thinking about what I was doing, how I felt and saw the world versus what my religion did.

Now I must backtrack a bit, and note that my 6th-grade teacher, a jesus-freak with a brain, is totally responsible for my non-belief now, and in a good way. She was the first person I'd know to take other sides of religious arguments and use common ense and logic with them.
So now I'm pondering it, and realize that I never did believe in God. I was just going by rote the whole time.

I realized that I never did believe. Not much changed for me, except how I saw the fundmentalist types. I now believe that they are afraid. Of what I don't know, but when in groups, they just seem to ooze fear, as though something of hope in fear will get them by.
Also, now I don't have to worry about breaking rules I never cared for to begin with 🙂.
...at the same time, my Catholic upbringing has given me all of my ethics and standards, so I cannot fault that, and if I have children, will definitely send them to one of the good Christian schools wherever I may be at the time.

There hasn't been much in the way of repercussions because I haven't told anyone in my family...no one has bothered to ask. My parents have become non-practicing, and it just hasn't come up. I doubt it would matter that much, though, if/when it does.

To deviate, some things I've said that have totally pissed off fundies:
1) ...but girls look hot in pants! (this one works good, as it gets several topics taken care of with one statement)
2) I'm gonna go have some Bailey's in coffee and blast Pink Floyd, wanna come?
...I may think of some more, as I've said more....it's just too early right now.
Anything that offers a choice to stop thinking really gets on my nerves.
 
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