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Former Atheist, A.S.A. Jones (testimony)

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What most people of faith I meet don't seem to understand is that my life has plenty of meaning without resorting to some mythical being. I am perfectly content with how my life progresses and how it will end. I have no need for everlasting life or forgiveness. I am who I am and need not apologize for it or ask for some heavenly acceptance. I don't need a crutch or imaginary friend to make me feel loved.
 
Wow, this thread is actually remaining civil compared to most religion threads.

Personally, I think people can believe what they want to believe as long as it doesn't infringe on other people. My religious views and my neighbor's don't have to be identical for us to get along just fine. I've found something that works for me, and if somebody is interested I'll share what I've found. I'm not even offended when somebody talks to me about their beliefs, it's when they try and brow beat me or say that I'm stupid for not believing what they do.
 
Originally posted by: hellokeith
If mankind's goal was to alleviate its own suffering, a bullet to the head was more efficient and made more sense in my thinking than screwing around with medication or disease control.

What was the point of prolonging any one life? What difference did it make if a girl didn't live to marry or her mother live to see it? Of what value were temporary emotional experiences? They were simply the biochemistry of the brain reacting to sensory input and, upon that individual's death, any remaining memory of that experience would be thrown away along with the person who had experienced it. My extreme point of view had reduced people into throwaway metabolic units; I had become as cold and indifferent as the logic that I exalted.
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Atheists should truly embrace the bolded sections. Without God, there is simply no reason for morality or even self-preservation. All atheists should go out right now living and dying fully like atheists and not be bound by us religious folks' beliefs. Social constructs were simply a way for evolutionary survival, something all intelligent science-minded atheists should know is no longer necessary in modern man's advanced stage of development. Lie, steal, murder, and have sex with as many people of any age alive or dead to your atheist heart's content, and when you've had your fill, put a bullet in your head since it was all for naught anyways. That is a real atheist. What are you afraid of?
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Wow, that's a pretty misguided rant from up on your high horse, there. Pragmatism states that we shouldn't do those things, based on the simple logic that we'd prefer them not to be done to us. That doesn't have to come from "on high".
It's just as easy to turn your argument around by saying: "Why should any Christians seek any medical attention when Heaven is the best place you could possibly be--shouldn't they welcome death with open arms?"
 
Originally posted by: rivan
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Atheists should truly embrace the bolded sections. Without God, there is simply no reason for morality or even self-preservation. All atheists should go out right now living and dying fully like atheists and not be bound by us religious folks' beliefs. Social constructs were simply a way for evolutionary survival, something all intelligent science-minded atheists should know is no longer necessary in modern man's advanced stage of development. Lie, steal, murder, and have sex with as many people of any age alive or dead to your atheist heart's content, and when you've had your fill, put a bullet in your head since it was all for naught anyways. That is a real atheist. What are you afraid of?
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I couldn't disagree with you more. If that's how you'd be without God, I'm glad you've got your faith. I see being a decent guy as it's own reward - I don't need the fear of going to hell to keep me from lying, cheating and stealing.

Homerboy - remember the vitriol I mentioned before? There you have it.
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You've missed both my sarcasm and my point completely. The last thing I want anyone, believer or not, to do is kill themselves. But at least consider hypothetically an amoral existence, and ask yourself in your own heart why you do the things you do and feel the way you feel about them. Christians shine their light not because they are judging those in the dark but because we all are in the dark without Christ. When your spirit is filled and you accept being totally forgiven, the freedom and fulfillment of your new life makes you voluntarily want to spread the good news.
 
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Sounds like once you allow Christianity to swim through your veins you can experience euphoria.

The author spoke of the "Jesus Myth" and "Pagan Origins" of Christianity. Did he ever discredit those theories or did he ignore them in lieu of this good feeling?
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If his good feeling makes him feel good why should he not enjoy and hold onto it?
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You bet, so long as he doesn't infringe on others because of that good feeling like trying to get creationism taught in schools, voting for politicians solely because of their faith, embracing bigotry towards gays, etc. such as some people who take Christianity too far.
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And that is the problem with religion. It makes people want to change everyone else. It's like drug addiction. You want all your friends to do it to validate you doing it. So rather then ignore the things that do not effect them, they try to change them for some sick twisted reason.

Example. I teach a judo class. I had a father come with his teen. He wanted to train. He wanted us to except him from bowing and from grappling with girls. It was against their religion. I told him it was best if he trains elsewhere, we are teaching judo and we are not going to compromise our teaching for anyone. He was outraged. I still don't see it. He threatened to sue. He told me we were persecuting him for his rights. If you don't like how we do it, there are hundreds of other place to take the money.

Why should we be forced to change? If he sues I bet we would be forced to change. It would be some form of discrimination. I still don't see how all discrimination is bad. Why can't my name be on every presidential ballot in the country? Are they discriminating me because I have no platform and nobody knows who the hell I am? Hell yes they are. Well judo has a culture from japan, we use the language (poorly), we bow to shomen and do other religious acts. Not because we are that religion, but because it is part of the culture handed down for generations.

This is why as an atheist I have never wanted to change the pledge of allegiance. It does not effect me to say 'Under god'. It is damn stupid for people to try to get it changed. It reflects our previous culture and heritage. It makes me very angry.

I feel that 'atheist' was just a hoax post. He just dismisses everything he knows basically on a whim to show that the bible must be right. There was no reasoning presented. If someone had the thoughts he claimed to have, he was obviously in serious need of mental help as well. The joy of science is answering questions, finding out what is really out there. I see inspiration in everything man does. I am at wonder with our achievements. My only sorrow is that I will never live to see our greatest or worst to come. I wish there was a afterlife where I could look down and see all the things we may one day do. It is just not probable.

When I die, I expert there to be nothing. But I don't look at death as a means to an end or a purpose like religious people do. Death is just an event, nothing more. The purpose to live is living, exploring, improving our existence. I see joy in every fruit I eat, ever wine I drink, ever breath I take. I seek out all I can, have as much fun as i can, and respect others and I would want to be treated. Why? because in the end there is nothing, so I must enjoy the time I have now. There is no reason to torment myself or burden myself with wasting time on something that has no evidence of existing. That time is valuable to me, I want to spend it the best I can.
 
Quote:/You've missed both my sarcasm and my point completely. The last thing I want anyone, believer or not, to do is kill themselves. But at least consider hypothetically an amoral existence, and ask yourself in your own heart why you do the things you do and feel the way you feel about them. Christians shine their light not because they are judging those in the dark but because we all are in the dark without Christ. When your spirit is filled and you accept being totally forgiven, the freedom and fulfillment of your new life makes you voluntarily want to spread the good news.


First I'd like to know why I need to be forgiven? And why is my existance inherently amoral? If you dislike yourself so much that's fine, but don't project that mess on me or anyone else.

And I don't need an imaginary friend to shine any light of enlightenment on me either. Keep your "good news" to your self, and if your message is so compelling then people will come to you.
 
like most converts...they go from not believing x god to believing x god. not all atheists have well thought out reasons for atheism, some are perhaps just lazy thinkers and easy prey.
 
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Without God, there is simply no reason for morality or even self-preservation.
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This is an idiotic point of view.
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Are they trying to say that god made a defective product and we need to speak to the warranty manager (jesus) for repairs?
 
I read the entire article and it applies to me, almost the same way. I grew up Christian (Luthern) and turned Atheist. Then one day much like the author in the OP, I looked at myself and I discovered that I was trying to discredit God for my own selfishness and sin. I wanted to find an excuse not to be Christian, and that excuse was causing me to be cold and dead in the soul. I then went to a Bible class, from a catholic priest. I didn't go to learn about God. I went to give myself more Ammo to hate God. In the process, I got converted. Everything the priest said made sense. Everything about having a dead soul, to God and Jesus, and the way the world is. I took that knowledge and applied it to my experiences and to life, and I realized how wrong I was.

I'm Catholic today because of it. I'm not a mindless drone believing in spaghetiti monsters. Its not the God that matters, its the message behind the words. The words are simple, live a life without God and your soul will be empty, you will have no love in your heart, you won't see a smiling children and think "What a sweet thing..." Previously I would have thought "Another mouth to feed on my dollar."

I suggest for those who have not read the article in the OP to read it... It will help you see what many others have seen. That there is more to life than just atoms squirling around in your existance.
 
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: rivan
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Sounds like once you allow Christianity to swim through your veins you can experience euphoria.

The author spoke of the "Jesus Myth" and "Pagan Origins" of Christianity. Did he ever discredit those theories or did he ignore them in lieu of this good feeling?
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If his good feeling makes him feel good why should he not enjoy and hold onto it?
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You bet, so long as he doesn't infringe on others because of that good feeling like trying to get creationism taught in schools, voting for politicians solely because of their faith, embracing bigotry towards gays, etc. such as some people who take Christianity too far.
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I agree 100%. But some people take their Atheism too far too and immediately ridicule and mock anyone that decides to go to place of worship or declare they believe in a God.
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Are you implying there are more judgmental atheists than judgmental Christians? I can't count the number of times I've been told with an oh-so-knowing, snide tone that I'm going to hell.

I'm not going to tell you there aren't atheists who think you're a fool if you have faith; I know better. Just don't try to tell me that aggression is one-sided.
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Truth. Every single person that is Christian or Catholic to which I end up divulging that I am atheist, always basically reply with a "what the fuck is wrong with you?!" type comment. It's kind of sickening and I've grown tired of explaining my reasons.

What seems to drive most people away from being 'devout' atheists is the sheer emptiness that can sometimes result. Me, I actually kind of have similar thoughts that he presented as what he believed to be true as an atheist. People must get so empty and depressed with their thoughts about humanity, that they just drive themselves mad.

+
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I'm sorry I haven't taken the time to read the entire thread but I did have a few comments on these quoted posts.

First off, I am very sorry you were treated like that by people who claim to love and desire to know more about God.

But let me also say that those people who do those things you just stated should not be the basis on which a religion is judged.

In the Gospels, Jesus says that we are "to love one another as [he] has loved [us]". That was Jesus greatest commandment. Not once did Jesus condemn the poor, needy, or even the Gentiles (Non-Jews). Those people who condemn you are not living in Christs name and they are not reflecting Christ in everything that they do.

If there is a specific topic or debate about religion you wanted to discuss, I am always open to PM's/Emails to merely just discuss topics.

One of, if not, the most popular Christian Rock band, ever, DC Talk, opened up one of their songs with this phrase:

The greatest single cause of Atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge things with their lips, walk out the door, and deny it by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world truly finds unbelievable. -What If I Stumble/DC Talk

Truer words are rarely spoken 🙁 - I hope to define and live my life as someone who does not deny Christ in any way like the above passage states.

-Kevin
 
Religion doesn't teach Morality. It teaches Scapegoating of Others by calling them "Immoral". "Homosexuals" are a fine example of the process at work. The rigidity of Religious Morality might be suitable in certain situations, but it fails when circumstances change and new Morality is required. We are living in an age where new Morality is required and so far the Religious are clinging to their outdated Morality and actually blaming consequences of Modern Immorality on factors that don't apply. No, Homosexuals are not to blame for Modern consequences of Immorality.

 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Religion doesn't teach Morality. It teaches Scapegoating of Others by calling them "Immoral". "Homosexuals" are a fine example of the process at work. The rigidity of Religious Morality might be suitable in certain situations, but it fails when circumstances change and new Morality is required. We are living in an age where new Morality is required and so far the Religious are clinging to their outdated Morality and actually blaming consequences of Modern Immorality on factors that don't apply. No, Homosexuals are not to blame for Modern consequences of Immorality.
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That is no religion that I claim to be part of. That is a flaw in the imperfect humans who follow the religion.

How is homosexuality any different of a sin than if I were to lie to my girlfriend, or if I were to grow angry?

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all

There is no difference, and judging those people (Wrong in itself) is no more or less wrong than the act itself.

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: Savij
I pooped and it looked like Jesus Christ. Can I sell it on ebay?
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Sadly, someone would buy it.

Once when I peed, the bubbles in the toilet formed a perfect smiley face. I dropped to my knees and said a prayer to Sam Walton.

 
Originally posted by: brandonb
I read the entire article and it applies to me, almost the same way. I grew up Christian (Luthern) and turned Atheist. Then one day much like the author in the OP, I looked at myself and I discovered that I was trying to discredit God for my own selfishness and sin. I wanted to find an excuse not to be Christian, and that excuse was causing me to be cold and dead in the soul. I then went to a Bible class, from a catholic priest. I didn't go to learn about God. I went to give myself more Ammo to hate God. In the process, I got converted. Everything the priest said made sense. Everything about having a dead soul, to God and Jesus, and the way the world is. I took that knowledge and applied it to my experiences and to life, and I realized how wrong I was.

I'm Catholic today because of it. I'm not a mindless drone believing in spaghetiti monsters. Its not the God that matters, its the message behind the words. The words are simple, live a life without God and your soul will be empty, you will have no love in your heart, you won't see a smiling children and think "What a sweet thing..." Previously I would have thought "Another mouth to feed on my dollar."

I suggest for those who have not read the article in the OP to read it... It will help you see what many others have seen. That there is more to life than just atoms squirling around in your existance.
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thats cool man, thanks for the post
 
Leo Tolstoy wrote a pretty interesting book (I thought) called A Confession. It's basically about his crisis or meaning and his return to Christianity. Only about 100 pages too.

I'm not a believer, and I can't imagine going back, but others can do what they want.
 
Originally posted by: brandonb
I read the entire article and it applies to me, almost the same way. I grew up Christian (Luthern) and turned Atheist. Then one day much like the author in the OP, I looked at myself and I discovered that I was trying to discredit God for my own selfishness and sin. I wanted to find an excuse not to be Christian, and that excuse was causing me to be cold and dead in the soul. I then went to a Bible class, from a catholic priest. I didn't go to learn about God. I went to give myself more Ammo to hate God. In the process, I got converted. Everything the priest said made sense. Everything about having a dead soul, to God and Jesus, and the way the world is. I took that knowledge and applied it to my experiences and to life, and I realized how wrong I was.

I'm Catholic today because of it. I'm not a mindless drone believing in spaghetiti monsters. Its not the God that matters, its the message behind the words. The words are simple, live a life without God and your soul will be empty, you will have no love in your heart, you won't see a smiling children and think "What a sweet thing..." Previously I would have thought "Another mouth to feed on my dollar."

I suggest for those who have not read the article in the OP to read it... It will help you see what many others have seen. That there is more to life than just atoms squirling around in your existance.
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Good for you, though I hope you don't think it's impossible for atheists to be compassionate and have a meaningful existence...
 
Originally posted by: chuckywang
I like this atheism quote:

"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, 'atheist' is a term that should not ever exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a 'non astrologer' or a 'non-alchemist'. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. An atheist is simply a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87 percent of the population) claiming to 'never doubt the existence of God' should be obliged to present evidence for his existence-and, indeed, for his BENEVOLENCE, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day."
--Sam Harris, "Letter to a Christian Nation"
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One of many great explanations of something so misunderstood.

Do you think people just pretend like they don't get it, or are they actually that closed-off?
 
Originally posted by: hellokeith
If mankind's goal was to alleviate its own suffering, a bullet to the head was more efficient and made more sense in my thinking than screwing around with medication or disease control.

What was the point of prolonging any one life? What difference did it make if a girl didn't live to marry or her mother live to see it? Of what value were temporary emotional experiences? They were simply the biochemistry of the brain reacting to sensory input and, upon that individual's death, any remaining memory of that experience would be thrown away along with the person who had experienced it. My extreme point of view had reduced people into throwaway metabolic units; I had become as cold and indifferent as the logic that I exalted.
Click to expand...

Atheists should truly embrace the bolded sections. Without God, there is simply no reason for morality or even self-preservation. All atheists should go out right now living and dying fully like atheists and not be bound by us religious folks' beliefs. Social constructs were simply a way for evolutionary survival, something all intelligent science-minded atheists should know is no longer necessary in modern man's advanced stage of development. Lie, steal, murder, and have sex with as many people of any age alive or dead to your atheist heart's content, and when you've had your fill, put a bullet in your head since it was all for naught anyways. That is a real atheist. What are you afraid of?
Click to expand...

Have you heard the question, is something moral because God says it is, or does God say something's moral because it's inherently moral? Most people go with the latter, in which case God isn't really a necessary part of morality. If the former, you're just obeying God because... he's all powerful? Because he's "good," even though he defines what's good in the first place? If God said to torture kids, would you do it? I'm guessing not, because you have some basis for morality outside of what God says, whether you realize it or not.

The way I see it, even if there is a God, it's not necessarily "right" to do what he says. Things are right or wrong regardless of what he says. If I acted differently due to belief in God, it would just be out of selfishness, i.e., wanting to go to heaven.
 
Originally posted by: brandonb
I read the entire article and it applies to me, almost the same way. I grew up Christian (Luthern) and turned Atheist. Then one day much like the author in the OP, I looked at myself and I discovered that I was trying to discredit God for my own selfishness and sin. I wanted to find an excuse not to be Christian, and that excuse was causing me to be cold and dead in the soul. I then went to a Bible class, from a catholic priest. I didn't go to learn about God. I went to give myself more Ammo to hate God. In the process, I got converted. Everything the priest said made sense. Everything about having a dead soul, to God and Jesus, and the way the world is. I took that knowledge and applied it to my experiences and to life, and I realized how wrong I was.

I'm Catholic today because of it. I'm not a mindless drone believing in spaghetiti monsters. Its not the God that matters, its the message behind the words. The words are simple, live a life without God and your soul will be empty, you will have no love in your heart, you won't see a smiling children and think "What a sweet thing..." Previously I would have thought "Another mouth to feed on my dollar."

I suggest for those who have not read the article in the OP to read it... It will help you see what many others have seen. That there is more to life than just atoms squirling around in your existance.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this "message" you received could have come from any religion. Buddha could have filled your void just the same as Jesus did. However, it doesn't make it anymore real, it just makes you feel better. Other people turn to drugs for the same reason. They don't like the harsh reality, so they turn to drugs to create this nice little fantasy world they can live in. Does it make them feel better? It sure as hell does. Does it change reality? No. You obviously weren't looking for the truth, as you definitely won't find it in The Bible. What you were looking for is something that would make you feel better. And guess what, you found it. So now you're happy. Congratulations! You saw what you wanted to see.

Now let me give you my background. I had a GREAT childhood, and couldn't ask for better parents. They're wonderful, and I owe them everything. All-in-one, I'd say I couldn't of had a better life. I grew up in the Catholic church and attended Catholic school for 11 years. Studied The Bible, had mass during school, had religion class, and accepted Jesus as the way it was and got into several debates defending my religion. Well one day during doing some math homework my mind wondered off and I asked myself, "you know, everyone questions everything in life except religion. I wonder why that is. Well, I'M going to question it and see what kind of new information I can find." Well that was it. I was hoping to solidify my belief, instead, it all came down like a house of cards. NOT ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE. Nothing, zero, nada. At first I was in shock and couldn't believe it. I was lied to all my life and I was pissed. I'm actually STILL pissed, but I do understand why people believe now. Religion is an escape from reality. Some people are strong enough to deal with it, some aren't. That's were magic Jesus comes in. He's always there for you no matter what. You get paralyzes from the neck down, "Jesus is testing you." Someone donates a wheelchair to haul your fvcked up ass around, "PRAISE JESUS!" God can't lose, after all, he IS God.

So to really sum all this up, people want different things out of life. Some people just want to be happy and will do whatever it takes to be happy, whether it be taking drugs or taking Jesus. I however want my life to be as real as it can be. I've accepted life can be cold and cruel, but at least I know what is real. And if I know what is real, I'll have better control over my own life and can make better decisions. But I wouldn't wish this on everyone. Like I said, some people really can't handle reality and prefer to live life with their head in the sand. Well, that's fantastic, but don't EVER try and get me to join you. I REFUSE to live in your fantasy land.
 
Originally posted by: thirtythree

Good for you, though I hope you don't think it's impossible for atheists to be compassionate and have a meaningful existence...
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No, I don't think that at all. I'm still the same person I was before (when I was Atheist)... I do the same things, I live my life like I did before. My life before and after has the same meaning and compassion as before. The only difference is my perspective of the world. Before I looked at things negative, and almost cynical. Everybody and everything was out for their own best interest. Therefore, I trusted no-one, and likewise I was cold. That does not mean I didn't help people out when they needed help. I still did the things I do now. But in the back of my head, I'd be muttering things under my breath about it, or did not enjoy doing such things... I did it because of obligation rather than wanting to help someone. My compassions have just shifted, or change priority in different ways.

When I converted, I realized there is more to life than selfishness. If I borrowed money to a friend, and they didn't pay me back. Why should I care? I knew they'd never pay me back when I borrowed it to them, but I did anyways. I had a friend who filed bankruptcy, and had their power turned off at their house. Do I know they could have done something about it? Yes. Did my friends wife ever stop going to the salon to get her nails done or hair done during this time? No... A simple change of their habits would have prevented their circumstance. The best thing for me to do was tell them to f-off... Or demand they pay me back when they never did. But I don't care. Money is not that important. What is more important to me is that I have friends, family, and can give to them when they need it. No matter what I thoguht, because in their perspective, they needed help, even if I didn't share such feelings. The wife has since filed divorce from my friend. She has been very greedy, and what she is doing is very scary, because I see what type of person she is. She is just mean, and used my friend for 15 years, and she has thrown him to the wolves without a second thought. Love? No way. She was the one who was supposed to pay me back and she never will. But I know when she is old and in nursing home alone, beacuse of her selfishness, she will be miserable. Her soul will be empty. She won't ever be happy throughout her lifetime. The $800 I loaned them doesn't matter. I hope she enjoyed it, but in the end, she will lose sleep over it, not me.
 
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