bankster55
Golden Member
geez
F4 2TB on sale yesterday at the egg for $59.95 FS
F4 2TB on sale yesterday at the egg for $59.95 FS
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Formatting a new Samsung F4 HD204UI 2tb 4k sector drive Win7 x64?
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bankster55
Golden Member
Tried a little gparted on the samsung
Made couple of partitons and clicked on GPT type partitions
Win 7 X32 install didnt like that
i guess it doesnt detect an EFI bios, and says fokkit
However it was interesting that the first sector was 34, not the normal 63.
Partition table 0 means MSDOS bios couldnt see/understand it - there is no MBR partition table (obviously)
And that unallocated at 2014 with first partition start at sector 34 after that is very strange, but definitely not MBR bios stuff. Gparted default "previous space" for first partition inputs 1MiB with GPT option select, and 2014 plus 34 = 2048 times 512 is 1MB. So it would appear that 34 sectors to first partition after empty unallocated is natural to GPT. Lots to learn here.
Went back to gparted, redid partitions with align to (nearest) cylinder option
This made normal 32K offset to 31K instead (not enough for 63 X 512) which I also assume is dependent on what geometry is set in bios - CHS/Large/LBA. Number of cylinders set by bios geometry determines snap point relationship.
Slightly smaller offset BSOD'ed big time after Win 7 install - "we had to shut down windows to prevent damage to your system." This then creates the horrible Win 7 loop whereby you are absolutely locked out of fixing things.
Update - used paragon disk manager "Fix MBR" command just for giggles and it fixed it - made the 31Kb offset 32Kb again. Nice.
Heres the dif cyl geometries avail in bios (auto is usually LBA)
Note that if you change this setting on an already formatted drive you will have to reformat with this geometry setting or PC wont boot.
Cant do anything more with the samsung, gonna move over to the WDC
Samsung is def not an onboard O/S (X64) friendly drive, at least in my experience.
Win 7 is indeed ready for AFT, just not with a 30 year old antique MSDos MBR bios. And its ready for 4096 native drives, no emulation, but none are for sale at this time.
Of course, the drive may run just great on Ubuntu 10.10 or Snow Leopard 10.6.5 which are GPT uEFI FULL compliant
Made couple of partitons and clicked on GPT type partitions
Win 7 X32 install didnt like that
i guess it doesnt detect an EFI bios, and says fokkit
However it was interesting that the first sector was 34, not the normal 63.
Partition table 0 means MSDOS bios couldnt see/understand it - there is no MBR partition table (obviously)
And that unallocated at 2014 with first partition start at sector 34 after that is very strange, but definitely not MBR bios stuff. Gparted default "previous space" for first partition inputs 1MiB with GPT option select, and 2014 plus 34 = 2048 times 512 is 1MB. So it would appear that 34 sectors to first partition after empty unallocated is natural to GPT. Lots to learn here.
Went back to gparted, redid partitions with align to (nearest) cylinder option
This made normal 32K offset to 31K instead (not enough for 63 X 512) which I also assume is dependent on what geometry is set in bios - CHS/Large/LBA. Number of cylinders set by bios geometry determines snap point relationship.
Slightly smaller offset BSOD'ed big time after Win 7 install - "we had to shut down windows to prevent damage to your system." This then creates the horrible Win 7 loop whereby you are absolutely locked out of fixing things.
Update - used paragon disk manager "Fix MBR" command just for giggles and it fixed it - made the 31Kb offset 32Kb again. Nice.
Heres the dif cyl geometries avail in bios (auto is usually LBA)
Note that if you change this setting on an already formatted drive you will have to reformat with this geometry setting or PC wont boot.
Cant do anything more with the samsung, gonna move over to the WDC
Samsung is def not an onboard O/S (X64) friendly drive, at least in my experience.
Win 7 is indeed ready for AFT, just not with a 30 year old antique MSDos MBR bios. And its ready for 4096 native drives, no emulation, but none are for sale at this time.
Of course, the drive may run just great on Ubuntu 10.10 or Snow Leopard 10.6.5 which are GPT uEFI FULL compliant
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RebateMonger
Elite Member
Darned. Missed that one.geez
F4 2TB on sale yesterday at the egg for $59.95 FS
bankster55
Golden Member
Yeah. I paid $180 for the two I got, or $60 in the toilet
i bought two to try raid, but that became out of the question
Win a few, lose a few
Newegg has been doing a lot of bargain stuff lately, wonder if the recession has impacted them a bit, and they need to rustle the bushes - heh
:hmm:
i bought two to try raid, but that became out of the question
Win a few, lose a few
Newegg has been doing a lot of bargain stuff lately, wonder if the recession has impacted them a bit, and they need to rustle the bushes - heh
:hmm:
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bankster55
Golden Member
I gave the link previously here (page 3) to the Samsung support page, with their toll free number, along with the name of the gal i talked to (central California if I remember correctly). I am just passing along what I was told at their official support phone. When I said "Z4" she immediately said "refurb". Why dont you call that number?
Thats all I know. RebateMonger also gave a link here to a site that called another Z4 "refurb" - dunno bout this
To other readers here: the image hoster I use goes down from time to time, so the images on other pages will come back - heh.
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bankster55
Golden Member
You didnt say in what country you got your first reply from, Samsung is all over the world.
If you look in hot deals, the $59.95 F4 thread, I asked and.guys buying from NE now - all reported non Z4's.
I must say I think you are obsessing over this a bit much.
You said you sent back the drive, they admitted it was "bad", and I assume you got a refund?
Am I correct?
If I were you I would avoid this thing, you are just asking for more frustration.
I got involved here just for my own knowledge base, and I do indeed now know a lot more about 4096 drives - thats for sure.
I use WDC FEAX Black 1TB drives exclusively at this time, twin controllers and 64MB cache, which I can buy for $89.95 shipped no tax.
They seem to be the coolest running/quietest/most reliable (non SSD) HDD avail at this time. Rather sadly, and I dont know why, the 1.5TB and the 2TB are not quite as reliable.
What I am waiting for is WDC 2TB Black 4096 drives, suposedly 2011
I have done a lot more benching since my last post, and I'm beginning to see that if you want to be happy with your F4 then you should avoid the HDTune utility when run FROM the Samsung. I think that utility is having trouble with being installed on 4096. What threw me off was when you said you didnt care about benches but the drive felt slow so then you benched it.
The first thing I noticed were some of the HDTune settings to change because this is a green drive with all those "features".
I went back and loaded Win 7 on Samsung (IDE emulate mode in bios) then added SP1 and used HDTach 3.04 (in XP SP3 compatibility mode). All along I always got the 137MB/s/104/58 results (max avg min) in HDTune no matter what I did, but HDTach gives BETTER results with SP1. Havent had a chance to uninstall SP1 and redo HDTach. Gonna also load Oct 2010 ATI's to see what that does.
Update: HDTach with or without Win 7 SP1 is same exact bench - its the different tests with that sw that gives the higher numbers, not the Win 7 SP
About 10% better than shown in HDTune
Close to 149MB/s max
Never seen 259.7 burst before
Rather chunky benchline, not smooth.
So it looks like Win 7 SP1 X86 will run installed on the Samsung O.K. - IF you ignore HDtune
Once again, Samsung F4 is fully emulated drive - alignment does absolutely nothing for Win 7, worthwhile if you are in XP, or unless you formatted with some old software or XP before loading Win 7 - like a dual boot.
HDTune will always give occasional drop spikes, cant get 2 benches the same. I dont think its ready for emulated drives (havent tried WDC yet) WHEN RUN FROM THAT DRIVE. Works great otherwise - even from XP.
If you look in hot deals, the $59.95 F4 thread, I asked and.guys buying from NE now - all reported non Z4's.
I must say I think you are obsessing over this a bit much.
You said you sent back the drive, they admitted it was "bad", and I assume you got a refund?
Am I correct?
If I were you I would avoid this thing, you are just asking for more frustration.
I got involved here just for my own knowledge base, and I do indeed now know a lot more about 4096 drives - thats for sure.
I use WDC FEAX Black 1TB drives exclusively at this time, twin controllers and 64MB cache, which I can buy for $89.95 shipped no tax.
They seem to be the coolest running/quietest/most reliable (non SSD) HDD avail at this time. Rather sadly, and I dont know why, the 1.5TB and the 2TB are not quite as reliable.
What I am waiting for is WDC 2TB Black 4096 drives, suposedly 2011
I have done a lot more benching since my last post, and I'm beginning to see that if you want to be happy with your F4 then you should avoid the HDTune utility when run FROM the Samsung. I think that utility is having trouble with being installed on 4096. What threw me off was when you said you didnt care about benches but the drive felt slow so then you benched it.
The first thing I noticed were some of the HDTune settings to change because this is a green drive with all those "features".
I went back and loaded Win 7 on Samsung (IDE emulate mode in bios) then added SP1 and used HDTach 3.04 (in XP SP3 compatibility mode). All along I always got the 137MB/s/104/58 results (max avg min) in HDTune no matter what I did, but HDTach gives BETTER results with SP1. Havent had a chance to uninstall SP1 and redo HDTach. Gonna also load Oct 2010 ATI's to see what that does.
Update: HDTach with or without Win 7 SP1 is same exact bench - its the different tests with that sw that gives the higher numbers, not the Win 7 SP
About 10% better than shown in HDTune
Close to 149MB/s max
Never seen 259.7 burst before
Rather chunky benchline, not smooth.
So it looks like Win 7 SP1 X86 will run installed on the Samsung O.K. - IF you ignore HDtune
Once again, Samsung F4 is fully emulated drive - alignment does absolutely nothing for Win 7, worthwhile if you are in XP, or unless you formatted with some old software or XP before loading Win 7 - like a dual boot.
HDTune will always give occasional drop spikes, cant get 2 benches the same. I dont think its ready for emulated drives (havent tried WDC yet) WHEN RUN FROM THAT DRIVE. Works great otherwise - even from XP.
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bankster55
Golden Member
Since this whole thing got me interested in finding an uEFI ready mobo (non MBR) I started searching and found some info. Dunno if I want to buy an Intel mobo tho. I dont want EFI for >2TB, I want it for non MBR hardwired/hardcoded aligning to 63rd sector. No matter how I align, an MSDOS MBR embeds those damn 63 512Byte sectors.
The whole (single) page is a good read
The big question is - does "ready" mean the actual bios firmware is avail to implement??
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=85328
The whole (single) page is a good read
The big question is - does "ready" mean the actual bios firmware is avail to implement??
bankster55
Golden Member
O.K. This is my final .02 cents on the Samsung F4 2TB
Heres the setup:
Drive 1 WDC FEAX 1TB Black, dual boot XP SP3 X64, Win 7 X86 SP0
Drive 2 - clone of the above
Drive 3 Samsung F4 2TB with 3 partitions (750,750,500) First partition has Win 7 X86 SP0 and is active. Supposedly only big single partitions work properly on 4096B HDD, but that is not an issue with F4 2TB. Maybe with WDC dunno (yet)
Booting into XP SP3 drive 1, run HDTach at Drive 3 Samsung
Booting into Win 7 Drive 1, running HDTach at drive 3 Samsung
Booting into Drive 1 XP Sp3, running HDTune at drive 3 Samsung
Booting drive1 from Win 7 SP0, running HDTune at Samsung drive 3
AAM set at 254
Booting drive1 from Win 7 SP0, running HDTune at Samsung drive 3
AAM set at 128 - higher access time
Samsung runs fine with Win 7 SP0-1 onboard, just ignore HDTune UNLESS CPU USAGE IS HIGH!!
HDTune on Samsung doesnt like Win 7 X64 SP1 - 40% cpu usage showing - big slowdown
I think I am safe using this drive as a data storage unit
Runs very fast for a 5400RPM drive (areal density)
My FEAX still beats it on I/O's
Samsung on top graph, WDC FEAX on lower graph
Note the slump @ 512 byte size file (emulation) in samsung
Now - Win 7 X86 SP0 new install ON Samsung - no other drives
32K XP type offset (1024K "4096 aligned" no difference)
HDTach 3.04
HDTach NEVER changes - always the exact same trace - under any condition!
Samsung only X86 Win 7 SP0 32K offset
First run HDTune 4.60 pro, (always the damn spikes)
Samsung only X86 Win 7 SP0 32K offset
Second run HDTune 4.60 pro, (always the damn spikes)
I then thought maybe some service in Win 7 is conflicting with HDTune, so I ran it IN SAFE MODE! Same or worse spikes.
I take back everything I said about F4 2TB (except Win 7 X64 SP1 on drive). Its the HDTune softwares. It does not like to be installed to a 4096 emulated drive, especially X64. Guess we'll have to wait for next version.
Edit: Looks like ASUS P67 Sandybridge will have dual bios - one with instant backup. And they will be removable chips flash based, not eeprom, 32MB (for the GUI stuff). Most bios now are 16MB.
A New BIOS:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/first-looks-asus-p8p67-deluxe-intel-p67-express-motherboard/10305-2.html
end.
When I get my WDC 2TB, I will come back here again.
I wasnt gonna do all this, but judging by the views, seems to be a lot of interest on the subject, now that its referenced on google.
Heres the setup:
Drive 1 WDC FEAX 1TB Black, dual boot XP SP3 X64, Win 7 X86 SP0
Drive 2 - clone of the above
Drive 3 Samsung F4 2TB with 3 partitions (750,750,500) First partition has Win 7 X86 SP0 and is active. Supposedly only big single partitions work properly on 4096B HDD, but that is not an issue with F4 2TB. Maybe with WDC dunno (yet)
Booting into XP SP3 drive 1, run HDTach at Drive 3 Samsung
Booting into Win 7 Drive 1, running HDTach at drive 3 Samsung
Booting into Drive 1 XP Sp3, running HDTune at drive 3 Samsung
Booting drive1 from Win 7 SP0, running HDTune at Samsung drive 3
AAM set at 254
Booting drive1 from Win 7 SP0, running HDTune at Samsung drive 3
AAM set at 128 - higher access time
Samsung runs fine with Win 7 SP0-1 onboard, just ignore HDTune UNLESS CPU USAGE IS HIGH!!
HDTune on Samsung doesnt like Win 7 X64 SP1 - 40% cpu usage showing - big slowdown
I think I am safe using this drive as a data storage unit
Runs very fast for a 5400RPM drive (areal density)
My FEAX still beats it on I/O's
Samsung on top graph, WDC FEAX on lower graph
Note the slump @ 512 byte size file (emulation) in samsung
Now - Win 7 X86 SP0 new install ON Samsung - no other drives
32K XP type offset (1024K "4096 aligned" no difference)
HDTach 3.04
HDTach NEVER changes - always the exact same trace - under any condition!
Samsung only X86 Win 7 SP0 32K offset
First run HDTune 4.60 pro, (always the damn spikes)
Samsung only X86 Win 7 SP0 32K offset
Second run HDTune 4.60 pro, (always the damn spikes)
I then thought maybe some service in Win 7 is conflicting with HDTune, so I ran it IN SAFE MODE! Same or worse spikes.
I take back everything I said about F4 2TB (except Win 7 X64 SP1 on drive). Its the HDTune softwares. It does not like to be installed to a 4096 emulated drive, especially X64. Guess we'll have to wait for next version.
Edit: Looks like ASUS P67 Sandybridge will have dual bios - one with instant backup. And they will be removable chips flash based, not eeprom, 32MB (for the GUI stuff). Most bios now are 16MB.
A New BIOS:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_p67_1155_sandybridge_sneak_peak/4
http://vr-zone.com/articles/first-looks-asus-p8p67-deluxe-intel-p67-express-motherboard/10305-2.html
end.
When I get my WDC 2TB, I will come back here again.
I wasnt gonna do all this, but judging by the views, seems to be a lot of interest on the subject, now that its referenced on google.
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bankster55
Golden Member
First look at ASUS P67 mob with graphical interface uEFI bios
I cant wait for these boards - an absolute necessity for NATIVE (non emulated) 4096B drives
Looks like lot sooner than I thought
Also noticed Hitatchi just came out with their 3TB drive (not 4096???) which cant be used without GPT
http://www.storagereview.com/3tb_hitachi_deskstar_7k3000_quietly_released
Heres pics of new interface - nice!
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...uxe-quick-preview-asus-specific-features.html
You can now use your mouse IN the bios - how about that!
I cant wait for these boards - an absolute necessity for NATIVE (non emulated) 4096B drives
Looks like lot sooner than I thought
Also noticed Hitatchi just came out with their 3TB drive (not 4096???) which cant be used without GPT
http://www.storagereview.com/3tb_hitachi_deskstar_7k3000_quietly_released
Heres pics of new interface - nice!
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...uxe-quick-preview-asus-specific-features.html
You can now use your mouse IN the bios - how about that!
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bankster55
Golden Member
Woops. Forgot to try HDTach on Win 7 X64 while on Samsung
So I added Win 7 X64 to "D", now dual boot Win 7 X86
Win 7 X64 SP0 HDTach 3.04 in Win XPSP3 compatibilty mode
Hmmmm. That looks mighty familiar. Just a touch slower on the burst and a touch more CPU usage, which may be because its on "D" not "C". So what does this say?
According to HDTach, samsung F4 2TB is fine even with X64 ON the drive. And I'm doing all the non recommended things - multiple partitions, O/S on drive, X64 O/S.
So, in desperation, I decided to try HDTune while loaded into Win 7 X64 onboard Samsung, BUT, in XPSP3 compatibility mode, Using every trick I now know about the sw, I ALMOST got a decent trace, IN X64.
Setting the AAM thusly is important (set 128 then disabled)
With new knowledge, I therefore retract anything negative I said about Samsung F4 2TB - absolutely nothing wrong with the drive. Its HDTune that has the problem, apparently with 4096B drives with emulation.. If you must use it - do the file bench, that or use ATTO or Disk Bench, or run the bench from another drive..
Remember - its not the destination, its the journey that counts
So I added Win 7 X64 to "D", now dual boot Win 7 X86
Win 7 X64 SP0 HDTach 3.04 in Win XPSP3 compatibilty mode
Hmmmm. That looks mighty familiar. Just a touch slower on the burst and a touch more CPU usage, which may be because its on "D" not "C". So what does this say?
According to HDTach, samsung F4 2TB is fine even with X64 ON the drive. And I'm doing all the non recommended things - multiple partitions, O/S on drive, X64 O/S.
So, in desperation, I decided to try HDTune while loaded into Win 7 X64 onboard Samsung, BUT, in XPSP3 compatibility mode, Using every trick I now know about the sw, I ALMOST got a decent trace, IN X64.
Setting the AAM thusly is important (set 128 then disabled)
With new knowledge, I therefore retract anything negative I said about Samsung F4 2TB - absolutely nothing wrong with the drive. Its HDTune that has the problem, apparently with 4096B drives with emulation.. If you must use it - do the file bench, that or use ATTO or Disk Bench, or run the bench from another drive..
Remember - its not the destination, its the journey that counts
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bankster55
Golden Member
Lots of new insight today in a review of the WDC Green AFT drive 3TB (4096B), that comes with Rocket RAID PCIe 1X board.
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=703&pgno=0
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=702
"Although other Western Digital hard disk drives with Advanced Format Technology have an Adv Format jumper option, this particular drive does not. There is a very simple reason - this drive does not support older operating systems like Windows XP or Windows 98 because they do not support the GUID Partition Table (GPT) which is necessary to access the full 3 TB capacity. Therefore, there is no need for the Adv Format jumper option."
"Like all newer Western Digital high-capacity hard disk drives, this model supports the Western Digital-pioneered Advanced Format Technology (AFT). However, this is not full-fledged AFT drive as it still uses 512-byte emulation for compatibility reasons, and therefore appears to be a regular hard disk drive to the outside world"
"Installing the Western Digital Caviar Green 3 TB hard disk drive in Microsoft Windows 7 was a piece of cake. It installs and works just like any other SATA hard disk drive.
When you first boot up, Windows 7 will detect the new hard disk drive and SATA controller and install the necessary drivers. Then it's just a simple matter of going to the Disk Management console (Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer Management -> Disk Management) and partitioning the drive as you wish. Windows 7 will automatically set the drive to use the GUID Partition Table (GPT)."
Suprisingly the 2TB brother of this drive does better than its bigger kin
Both articles are a good read for anyone thinking about buying an AFT drive. (Also noticed techarp didnt use HDtune)
So, even if you use the addin card, you still cant use XP. Makes sense if you think about it.
Update:
Heres the ASRock versions P67 UEFI ready P67 mobo
That extreme vers looking good
Apparently the NDA on Sandy Bridge mobo is near being lifted.
So for EFI GPT and 4096 we now have 3 good options - the Gigabyte/ASRock and ASUS so far.
True EFI GPT mobo will now allow NATIVE 4096B drives - no emulation.
http://www.tweak.dk/nyheder2.php?id...Rock_P67_Extreme6_and_H67DE3_for_Sandy_Bridge
http://techgage.com/article/a_look_at_upcoming_asus_h67_p67_motherboards/
Edit: They are now saying "early Jan" for P67 mobo.
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=703&pgno=0
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=702
"Although other Western Digital hard disk drives with Advanced Format Technology have an Adv Format jumper option, this particular drive does not. There is a very simple reason - this drive does not support older operating systems like Windows XP or Windows 98 because they do not support the GUID Partition Table (GPT) which is necessary to access the full 3 TB capacity. Therefore, there is no need for the Adv Format jumper option."
- Every Western Digital Caviar Green 2.5 TB and 3 TB hard disk drive will ship with an AHCI-compliant SATA controller card that runs off the PCI Express x1 bus. Currently, that's the HighPoint RocketRAID 620.
- When used with the proper driver, the PCI Express SATA controller card will allow you to make use of the 2.5 TB and 3 TB hard disk drives as secondary drives.
- You will only be able to use them as boot drives with 64-bit versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 if your motherboard supports UEFI. They will also boot on Mac OS 10.5 Leopard (or better) and Linux.
- The 2.5 TB and 3 TB hard disk drives will need to be formatted using GPT (GUID Partition Table), so only operating systems that support GPT (e.g. Windows Vista, Windows 7) will be able to support the new hard disk drives. Windows XP only supports MBR, so it won't be able to support the new drives."
"Like all newer Western Digital high-capacity hard disk drives, this model supports the Western Digital-pioneered Advanced Format Technology (AFT). However, this is not full-fledged AFT drive as it still uses 512-byte emulation for compatibility reasons, and therefore appears to be a regular hard disk drive to the outside world"
"Installing the Western Digital Caviar Green 3 TB hard disk drive in Microsoft Windows 7 was a piece of cake. It installs and works just like any other SATA hard disk drive.
When you first boot up, Windows 7 will detect the new hard disk drive and SATA controller and install the necessary drivers. Then it's just a simple matter of going to the Disk Management console (Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer Management -> Disk Management) and partitioning the drive as you wish. Windows 7 will automatically set the drive to use the GUID Partition Table (GPT)."
Suprisingly the 2TB brother of this drive does better than its bigger kin
Both articles are a good read for anyone thinking about buying an AFT drive. (Also noticed techarp didnt use HDtune)
So, even if you use the addin card, you still cant use XP. Makes sense if you think about it.
Update:
Heres the ASRock versions P67 UEFI ready P67 mobo
That extreme vers looking good
Apparently the NDA on Sandy Bridge mobo is near being lifted.
So for EFI GPT and 4096 we now have 3 good options - the Gigabyte/ASRock and ASUS so far.
True EFI GPT mobo will now allow NATIVE 4096B drives - no emulation.
http://www.tweak.dk/nyheder2.php?id...Rock_P67_Extreme6_and_H67DE3_for_Sandy_Bridge
http://techgage.com/article/a_look_at_upcoming_asus_h67_p67_motherboards/
Edit: They are now saying "early Jan" for P67 mobo.
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RebateMonger
Elite Member
I'm missing the purpose of the RocketRaid disk controller. You STILL can't fully use the disk on an XP box and you STILL can't boot from it without a UEFI motherboard and x64 Windows. What does the RocketRAID add to the picture?
bankster55
Golden Member
Thats what they said - you cant use XP on any drive > 2.1GB. Period. The O/S doesnt support it. Not XP X64 or XP X86.
But you CAN boot into it plugged into card-which by itself is UEFI (on an MBR mobo)
Thats what their onboard controller does
Remember those Promise cards that allowed "big" HDD >120GB to run on non 48 bit older mobo
Have to value each factor
O/S (Win XP X86 X64, Win 7Vista/ X86 X64
Format (MSDOS GPT)
BIOS (EFI MBR)
The RR allows you to use GPT with its onboard "virtual EFI" chip, while still using an MBR bios mobo. The chip fools Win 7 into thinking its on an EFI mobo by inserting itself between the HDD and O/S. This also means you can now use GPT on any HDD hooked up to it even 100GB. This releases you from the constraints of 63 sectored alignment. In other words you can use XP 100GB SATA HDD actual 512 sectored drive in GPT - tho there is no real reason to do it. Win 7 sees the RR "bios" as that of the HDD in use - looks no further.
My questions is - is it compatible with native non emulated 4096 drives 2TB or otherwise. Havent had time to look up RR features on the website
But you CAN boot into it plugged into card-which by itself is UEFI (on an MBR mobo)
Thats what their onboard controller does
Remember those Promise cards that allowed "big" HDD >120GB to run on non 48 bit older mobo
Have to value each factor
O/S (Win XP X86 X64, Win 7Vista/ X86 X64
Format (MSDOS GPT)
BIOS (EFI MBR)
The RR allows you to use GPT with its onboard "virtual EFI" chip, while still using an MBR bios mobo. The chip fools Win 7 into thinking its on an EFI mobo by inserting itself between the HDD and O/S. This also means you can now use GPT on any HDD hooked up to it even 100GB. This releases you from the constraints of 63 sectored alignment. In other words you can use XP 100GB SATA HDD actual 512 sectored drive in GPT - tho there is no real reason to do it. Win 7 sees the RR "bios" as that of the HDD in use - looks no further.
My questions is - is it compatible with native non emulated 4096 drives 2TB or otherwise. Havent had time to look up RR features on the website
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RebateMonger
Elite Member
Reading the article more carefully...I still don't see where it says you can BOOT to the disk, even with the RocketRAID card, unless you have a UEFI motherboard and an x64 Windows OS.
However, Storage Review says:
http://www.storagereview.com/western_digital_caviar_green_3tb_review_wd30ezrsdtl
"Since most current systems don't yet support UEFI standards, WD is providing an interim solution for those who want to boot these high-capacity drives in certain operating environments; they're including an AHCI-compliant host bus adapter (HBA) card with the retail drive kits. This allows legacy BIOS motherboards and GPT-ready operating systems to use a known driver to correctly support large capacity drives. While not a perfect solution, WD had to either go this route or hold off until UEFI adoption warranted the drive release."
The Storage Review article also says that the driver for the PCI-E controller is the native Widows AHCI driver.
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bankster55
Golden Member
You can boot to it with Win 7 X86 if drive is 2.19GB or less - or multiple partitions, but must not exceed 2.19 TOTAL/per HDD
The drivers are "normal" MS AHCI yes for SATA transfers, but the "BIOS is RR EFI enabled - their code.. We are not talking about drives function here.
>2.1TB drive must use GPT, X64 Win 7, must use controller card like RR if mobo non UEFI
<2.1TB drive can use GPT or MBR, Win 7 X86 or X64, or an UEFI mobo that can toggle back to MBR, then the only thing that changes is aligning with a 512S drive or an emuated 512 driive. GPT additionally allows special formatting for TRUE 4096 drives
I dont see the issue here. Yes, it only gives one choice. So?
You are locked out of XP - O.K.
What do you want to use with it? How are you hurt by this?
You cant even buy a big name OEM PC that doesnt come with Win 7 X64. I didnt even see an X86 option on the Dell site.
The card only comes with >2.1 drives so this whole thing only applies to 2 WDC drives at the time a 2.5TB and a 3.0TB. It has restrictions as not being an endall beall, but its for specific drives at this specfic time, which will all mean nothing when P67 boards come out. I also believe P67 will be backwards compatible with MBR by a bios choice. This is just the warmup to get away from old MSDOS partitioning which is not compatible with big drives and/or native 4096 drives which cannot be used on MBR bios.
The wording in the SR review misleads. The RR has to be EFI, or there would be no reason to have it. that would restrict the drives to Intel (OEM/Retail) mobo, thus cutting off most of their market.
Edit: let me look at the RR website and track this down
Update: I see what you mean, just looked at the RR specs and it says nothing about EFI self support. Damn, it DOES look like you will need an EFI mobo as a pre req . How stupid is that?
"64bit LBA support greater than 2TB per volume" - thats all it is!! Sheesh!
My bad. I assumed something I shouldnt have
You were 100% correct.
It makes the launch of these drives even more lame than I imagined.
99% of the people that have the EFI capable mobo dont even know it.
Thnx for bringing that up - it forced me to look deeper, which is what i should have done in the first place.
The drivers are "normal" MS AHCI yes for SATA transfers, but the "BIOS is RR EFI enabled - their code.. We are not talking about drives function here.
>2.1TB drive must use GPT, X64 Win 7, must use controller card like RR if mobo non UEFI
<2.1TB drive can use GPT or MBR, Win 7 X86 or X64, or an UEFI mobo that can toggle back to MBR, then the only thing that changes is aligning with a 512S drive or an emuated 512 driive. GPT additionally allows special formatting for TRUE 4096 drives
I dont see the issue here. Yes, it only gives one choice. So?
You are locked out of XP - O.K.
What do you want to use with it? How are you hurt by this?
You cant even buy a big name OEM PC that doesnt come with Win 7 X64. I didnt even see an X86 option on the Dell site.
The card only comes with >2.1 drives so this whole thing only applies to 2 WDC drives at the time a 2.5TB and a 3.0TB. It has restrictions as not being an endall beall, but its for specific drives at this specfic time, which will all mean nothing when P67 boards come out. I also believe P67 will be backwards compatible with MBR by a bios choice. This is just the warmup to get away from old MSDOS partitioning which is not compatible with big drives and/or native 4096 drives which cannot be used on MBR bios.
The wording in the SR review misleads. The RR has to be EFI, or there would be no reason to have it. that would restrict the drives to Intel (OEM/Retail) mobo, thus cutting off most of their market.
Edit: let me look at the RR website and track this down
Update: I see what you mean, just looked at the RR specs and it says nothing about EFI self support. Damn, it DOES look like you will need an EFI mobo as a pre req . How stupid is that?
"64bit LBA support greater than 2TB per volume" - thats all it is!! Sheesh!
My bad. I assumed something I shouldnt have
You were 100% correct.
It makes the launch of these drives even more lame than I imagined.
99% of the people that have the EFI capable mobo dont even know it.
Thnx for bringing that up - it forced me to look deeper, which is what i should have done in the first place.
Last edited:
RebateMonger
Elite Member
Well, I just was trying to understand the purpose of the RocketRAID card. It must be providing SOMETHING that Western Digital thinks will be required by many users for compatibility with these new disks.
If it provides UEFI functionality for non-UEFI motherboards, that's great. Or maybe it provides BIOS support for something else that's not available with some current PC BIOSes.
My recollection is that there's something else needed to support "big" disks. Like they need to support "super-big LBA" or something like that. There was a thread here on such things a month or two ago that mentioned something IN ADDITION TO the 1) UEFI, 2) Vista/Win7, 3) x64, 4) GPT requirements.
Edit:
It's "Long LBA". Apparently the OS has to support it (x64 versions of Vista and Win7 do). But ALSO, the I/O hardware on the motherboard has to support it. That may be something that the RocketRAID card is providing just in case the motherboard doesn't.
If it provides UEFI functionality for non-UEFI motherboards, that's great. Or maybe it provides BIOS support for something else that's not available with some current PC BIOSes.
My recollection is that there's something else needed to support "big" disks. Like they need to support "super-big LBA" or something like that. There was a thread here on such things a month or two ago that mentioned something IN ADDITION TO the 1) UEFI, 2) Vista/Win7, 3) x64, 4) GPT requirements.
Edit:
It's "Long LBA". Apparently the OS has to support it (x64 versions of Vista and Win7 do). But ALSO, the I/O hardware on the motherboard has to support it. That may be something that the RocketRAID card is providing just in case the motherboard doesn't.
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bankster55
Golden Member
Yeah, I guess since you have mentioned it, you have seen this
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2010/06/01/are-we-ready-for-3tb-hard-disks/1
Highpoints site is useless - just some basic tech info
I could find no SATA card that supports EFI natively with google
48 Bit is normal MBR (128 Petabytes) - BUT it becomes 32 bit if the O/S is 32bit. Maybe the card allows 32bit Win 7 to see more
But Win 7 X64 already sees EVERYTHING and that needs EFI
http://blog.fosketts.net/2010/05/18/2-tb-hard-disk-drive-limit/
How the hell does Highpoint card get around the need for GPT.
Even if the card has extended LBA it still has to be formatted according to bios limitations
There is NOTHING said by WDC on the need for an EFI mobo!
And its for sale NOW!!
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=866
http://www.wdc.com/en/solutions/Greaterthan22.asp
There are a bunch of reviews listed which I will read later
Win 7 X64 O/S allows full size and thats when EFI comes in
X64 is a whole dif situation
But I keep coming back to >2.1 drives cant be formatted in MSDOS, has to have GPT, even if O/S is willing or else drive must be broken up to several partitions. Thats what I cant reconcile on whats going on here. Maybe Long LBA does the trick
Or, that RR card must have some magic ingredient
Heres the possibilities
1.) You dont boot into drive, one partition >2.1
1a)You dont boot into drive, drive made as 2 partitions <2.1
2.) You boot into drive Win 7 X86, one partition >2.1
2a) you boot into drive Win 7 X86, drive made as 2 partitions <2.1
3.)You boot into drive Win 7 X64, drive made as one partition >2.1
3a) You boot into drive Win 7 X64, drive made as 2 partitions<2.1
I am gonna dig some more
Update:
Yes it is apparently Long LBA
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whi...t_generation_of_High_capacity_hard_drives.pdf
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/mb603_1_high_capacity_storage_readiness.pdf
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2010/06/01/are-we-ready-for-3tb-hard-disks/1
Highpoints site is useless - just some basic tech info
I could find no SATA card that supports EFI natively with google
48 Bit is normal MBR (128 Petabytes) - BUT it becomes 32 bit if the O/S is 32bit. Maybe the card allows 32bit Win 7 to see more
But Win 7 X64 already sees EVERYTHING and that needs EFI
http://blog.fosketts.net/2010/05/18/2-tb-hard-disk-drive-limit/
How the hell does Highpoint card get around the need for GPT.
Even if the card has extended LBA it still has to be formatted according to bios limitations
There is NOTHING said by WDC on the need for an EFI mobo!
And its for sale NOW!!
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=866
http://www.wdc.com/en/solutions/Greaterthan22.asp
There are a bunch of reviews listed which I will read later
Win 7 X64 O/S allows full size and thats when EFI comes in
X64 is a whole dif situation
But I keep coming back to >2.1 drives cant be formatted in MSDOS, has to have GPT, even if O/S is willing or else drive must be broken up to several partitions. Thats what I cant reconcile on whats going on here. Maybe Long LBA does the trick
Or, that RR card must have some magic ingredient
Heres the possibilities
1.) You dont boot into drive, one partition >2.1
1a)You dont boot into drive, drive made as 2 partitions <2.1
2.) You boot into drive Win 7 X86, one partition >2.1
2a) you boot into drive Win 7 X86, drive made as 2 partitions <2.1
3.)You boot into drive Win 7 X64, drive made as one partition >2.1
3a) You boot into drive Win 7 X64, drive made as 2 partitions<2.1
I am gonna dig some more
Update:
Yes it is apparently Long LBA
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whi...t_generation_of_High_capacity_hard_drives.pdf
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/mb603_1_high_capacity_storage_readiness.pdf
Last edited:
RebateMonger
Elite Member
I just read those and they are informative. One key point is that current desktop Intel disk controllers don't support long-LBA. And the RocketRAID (and probably many other hardware-RAID controllers) do.
HighPoint likely got the nod because they have years of experience building "fairly reliable" low-cost RAID controllers that don't have an onboard CPU or significant onboard memory.
I still see no evidence that the RocketRAID provides UEFI, the other requirement for booting from a "big" hard disk.
Note, too, that reviews will be of, effectively, two different disks. Retail disks include the RR card and OEM disks have no RR card.
Edit:
I'm confused again. Amazon is selling the "bare-OEM" disk, but claims that the disk controller card is included. I thought only the retail-box disk included the RR card.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00471UDWI/...SIN=B00471UDWI
Last edited:
bankster55
Golden Member
Just curious -
Where did you see RR card does long LBA (it must, but I dont see it mentioned anywhere)
Where did you see it noted OEM drives get no Host card?
i would understand if they were selling only to server guys, who would have no need for O/S, but sold on mass market, it would have to have card
Also see the 1 review on Amazon - guy had lots of problems even with Linux.
Firmware on external enclosure is yet another roadblock
One big pile of horse manure
Where did you see RR card does long LBA (it must, but I dont see it mentioned anywhere)
Where did you see it noted OEM drives get no Host card?
i would understand if they were selling only to server guys, who would have no need for O/S, but sold on mass market, it would have to have card
Also see the 1 review on Amazon - guy had lots of problems even with Linux.
Firmware on external enclosure is yet another roadblock
One big pile of horse manure
RebateMonger
Elite Member
HighPoint specs say the RocketRAID 620 card supports 64-bit LBA.
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA_new/series_rr600.htm
I'm pretty sure I read the "bare-OEM = no RR card" thing somewhere. But my other reading indicates that OEM disks WILL have the RR card. At least until more disk controller hardware/firmware/drivers support long-LBA. So maybe I read something wrong or the article I read was wrong.
I still see no sign of anything that makes up for a lack of motherboard UEFI support. The "Storage Review" article I referenced earlier implies that you might be able to boot this thing with the RR card, but I don't think so.
http://www.storagereview.com/western_digital_caviar_green_3tb_review_wd30ezrsdtl
"Since most current systems don't yet support UEFI standards, WD is providing an interim solution for those who want to boot these high-capacity drives in certain operating environments; they're including an AHCI-compliant host bus adapter (HBA) card with the retail drive kits. This allows legacy BIOS motherboards and GPT-ready operating systems to use a known driver to correctly support large capacity drives. While not a perfect solution, WD had to either go this route or hold off until UEFI adoption warranted the drive release."
Something else:
Is the card actually a HighPoint ROCKET 620 or is it a HighPoint RocketRAID 620?
The Rocket is $25 at Newegg and doesn't do RAID. The RocketRAID is $60 and does do RAID.
I looked at the photos. The photos supplied by the 3 TB disk reviews are of the ROCKET card. You can tell by the lack of an audible alarm buzzer on the ROCKET card. You can see the outline of the missing alarm buzzer in the upper-left-hand corner of the controller card. Both types of cards say, "RocketRAID" on the PCB.
Last edited:
bankster55
Golden Member
Well, the Rocket Raid card is 64bit LBA which s not long LBA, and has been around for a long time
And the Rocket 620, which isnt even on the Highpoint site, according to Newegg, ONLY supports <2TB (details tab)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816115072
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/PDF/R62x/Rocket 620 Datasheet.pdf
Now go figure that one out - heh
Edit: I was reading the Newegg comments on the RAID 620 and apparently that Marvel chip is horrendous, and unfixable. Doesnt make me optimistic on its use on >2TB
And the Rocket 620, which isnt even on the Highpoint site, according to Newegg, ONLY supports <2TB (details tab)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816115072
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/PDF/R62x/Rocket 620 Datasheet.pdf
Now go figure that one out - heh
Edit: I was reading the Newegg comments on the RAID 620 and apparently that Marvel chip is horrendous, and unfixable. Doesnt make me optimistic on its use on >2TB
Last edited:
RebateMonger
Elite Member
Hard to tell what it is. Based on the two photos of the "RocketRAID" card I've seen on reviews, NONE of them exactly match either the "Rocket" or the "RocketRAID". The reviews all show cards missing the alarm buzzer and missing two of three jumpers at the very top. But the top row of ICs vary (just below the top jumpers) seem to vary all over the place. None exactly match the "Rocket 620". And all seem to be missing parts from the "RocketRAID 620".
It might be a special stripped-down version of the most recent cards, carrying support for long-LBA but with none of the other higher-end features.
Note: As far as I can tell, another name for "long-LBA" is "LBA64".
It might be a special stripped-down version of the most recent cards, carrying support for long-LBA but with none of the other higher-end features.
Note: As far as I can tell, another name for "long-LBA" is "LBA64".
bankster55
Golden Member
I did a little looking and 64bit LBA has been around a long time
Im not a "RAID guy" but it seems when you put like six 1TB HDD on a RAID controller, thats 6TB of drive you have to deal with, as if its a single drive, not possible with 48 bit which becomes 32 bit in actual useage, unless you use the now avail Win 7 and specifically X64 vers
Heres a 2005 link
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-battles-pci,1176-10.html
64 bit is bandwidth thingy, how many working avail pipes, its basic architecture
CDB ("Long LBA") is something that manipulates the LBA addresses themselves
So, I am leaning towards Long LBA is not necessarily 64 bit, but 64 bit does not exclude CDB
Any RAID card has to have 64 bit, its not there to help a person with a single 3TB drive. RAID IS gigantic storage.
The non RAID Rocket card might not need 64 bit at all
The only thing I can guess is that Rocket 620 has non 64bit CDB, which is how it appears to be.
http://forums.storagereview.com/index.php/topic/27153-64bit-lba-for-over-2tb-support/
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/aic7xxx/2006-January/004280.html
But then again, I could be wrong
:hmm:
Update:
According to these guys, NDA on P67 will lift in Jan
http://www.vortez.co.uk/articles_pages/asus_p8p67_motherboard_preview,1.html
"Below we have an unboxing video of the forthcoming ASUS P8P67 motherboard. Please bear in mind that at this stage only an unbox and preview of the features are currently permitted. Performance results will be published in January when Intel lifts the embargo. Meanwhile, enjoy! (Pictures on the following pages with closeup shots)"
Looks like Gigabyte P67 boards have no mention of EFI so far, ASUS is my only option as it stands and only if they get the bios C++ code finished by Jan., ECS extreme P67 is still unknown, "regular" ECS has no mention
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Previews/ecs_p67_h67_sandy_bridge/
All the MSI P67 boards show the "click bios" as in click mouse/KB, so they should all be EFI ready but implementation is still an unknown.
From 2009 Jan:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2009/01/11/msi-click-bios-evaluating-uefi-review/1
P67:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/msi-p67--h67-motherboard-line-up-pictured/10274.html
Update 2:
This is strictly for geeks..........
I may have found out why the HDTune sw gives those annoying spikes when on an emulated drive. If you read this pdf carefully, it tells whats going on. While Samsung is not an SSD drive, it behaves like one to the HDTune benchmark when its on the drive.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res_old/images/Configuring-and-Setting-Up-SSDs.pdf
Heres some real craziness from ECS
A P67 mobo with a 1156 socket - wow!
Use your current CPU on P67 chipset
Rep says avail in Dec and he specifically mentions uEFI ready
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/17732/asrock_p67_transformer_motherboard_video_hands_on/index.html
I was going to buy another P55, but I'll wait now
Looks like all the ASUS P67 will have the EFI implementation
Heres the ROG Extreme
http://vr-zone.com/articles/first-l...me-intel-p67-express-motherboard/10408-4.html
"Starting with the Intel P67 Express, motherboard manufacturers have moved towards implementing EFI BIOSes on all their motherboards for Intel's new Sandy Bridge platform. The EFI BIOS sports a graphical user interface complete with input from a mouse. The stunning GUI on the Maximus IV Extreme makes you wanting never to go back to legacy BIOSes"
I just wonder if they are still backwards compatible with MBR DOS bios or is it oficially gone? Or does it offer different flashes for ea?
New Update:
Just ran into this GPT protected partition thing: (MAC Pro with Win 7 with bootcamp)
Looked around a little and found this fantastic MS page on GPT EFI ESP MSR MBR stuff, explained in detail. Great resource, especially since the P67 boards will be around on Jan 9
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/gpt_faq.mspx
xtrmemesys website just came out with a super preview of the gigabyte flagship P67 board. According to poster it would appear that 32MB is min size bios chip for EFI ready and that Gigabyte will be EFI "capable" with a bios flash (at a later date?) while the ASUS IS EFI right out the gate
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263543
==================================
Fooled around with the Paragon Alignment Tool
On the 2TB samsung (with the diskpart 1024K offset) says everything fine - no align needed
Offered align on the 640 GB WDC black, but thats because i partitioned it with gparted which leaves those ext3 7MB part info hiddens which Windows cant see.and denotes as unallocated.
====================================
Now Seagate enters the fray, with a "high performance" series of green AFT 4096B drives - 1TB 1.5TB and 2TB that do their own aligning!
Quote:
Not only do Barracuda® Green drives offer environmental improvements in power consumption and material usage, but these drives are also among the first hard drives from Seagate to offer SmartAlign technology, said Dave Mosley, Seagate executive vice president of Sales, Marketing and Product Line Management. This is important because the industry is transitioning to 4K sector formatting called Advanced Format to improve capacities and maintain strong error correction. However, the transition to Advanced Format without SmartAlign technology can be complex and require additional integration steps and software utilities to avoid performance degradation. SmartAlign technology removes these concerns and takes this transition virtually invisible for our customers.
http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...toid=8e008b70802dc210VgnVCM1000001a48090aRCRD
=====================
After downloading and looking at the various P67 mobo manuals for boards about to be released, it looks like there will be no dif bios for EFI and MBR bios. They will handle both. What separates them is that some have the EFI GUI with all the bells and whistles - KB mouse support, on the fly O/C changes, ability to save bios settings as a profile, ability to make a screenshot etc.
By far the sexiest interface is the MSI (GD65), whilst the Giga UD4 has the normal plain black bios interface with no advanced GUI features. The MSI bios at this time will be only online update - you will go to net from bios and site will install latest bios as needed.
The Gigabyte P67 is undergoing a lot of bios changes now, and the board is not even released. The latest F5 just now adds 3TB + bios support - which is EFI.
Asus has noithing to DL yet, but the boards are now for sale in US at 3 dif locations. I will be getting the deluxe which is now $235. I could buy now, but will wait for CPU's (which are selling now in Malaysia)
MSI has the interesting "enter the EFI shell" option in bios.
At this point, it looks like you will be able to use either MBR or EFI with P67, with MBR emulation if needed.
So, you wont get EFI >2.19TB unless you are in AHCI mode not SATA IDE emulate. In other words this forces you to load P67 chip AHCI SATA driver during install, which makes sense. You have to be working THRU the chip.
ftp://174.142.97.10/manual/P67 Professional.pdf
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=downloadfile&dno=13472&type=manual
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-p67a-ud4_e.pdf
And now, Intels new RST (Rapid storage tech) has come out with new GPT ready driver 10.1.1008
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sea...=Intel®+Rapid+Storage+Technology+(Intel®+RST)
Also just out Win 7 SP1 RTM reportedly has sandybridge support
==============
Still fooling around with Paragon PAT Tool. I had a real prob with my old multiboot drive that has my O/S fully configured which I use for cloning. Unfotunately when I clone it takes along the MBR and the 32K offset. I wanted those O/S partitions but without the XP offset, rather the Win 7 offset.
So I cloned the drive to the 2TB Samsung, which brought along the 32K offset as expected, then I ran the samung trough the PAT Tool from the master drive (1TB WDC Black). It made the Samsung clone now at 2048K offset (2MB or 2048 X 1024). Which was great. It basically makes the new offset, then shifts ea and every LBA address acoordingly. Now i could use the samsung for cloning.Then just for the hell of it, I also aligned the 1TB WDC with the 32K offset, while the samsung was still connected - which was a mistake. The tool then made an offset of 2048 for each and every partition on both drives!! ARRRGH. Doesnt hurt anything, but not what i wanted. Tested in HDTACH - no dif in benches 1024K or 2048K. I might note this would be perfect for SSD's with 4096 mem pages.
Im not a "RAID guy" but it seems when you put like six 1TB HDD on a RAID controller, thats 6TB of drive you have to deal with, as if its a single drive, not possible with 48 bit which becomes 32 bit in actual useage, unless you use the now avail Win 7 and specifically X64 vers
Heres a 2005 link
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-battles-pci,1176-10.html
64 bit is bandwidth thingy, how many working avail pipes, its basic architecture
CDB ("Long LBA") is something that manipulates the LBA addresses themselves
So, I am leaning towards Long LBA is not necessarily 64 bit, but 64 bit does not exclude CDB
Any RAID card has to have 64 bit, its not there to help a person with a single 3TB drive. RAID IS gigantic storage.
The non RAID Rocket card might not need 64 bit at all
The only thing I can guess is that Rocket 620 has non 64bit CDB, which is how it appears to be.
http://forums.storagereview.com/index.php/topic/27153-64bit-lba-for-over-2tb-support/
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/aic7xxx/2006-January/004280.html
http://markmail.org/message/lwhtzedscjm76uwm
But then again, I could be wrong
:hmm:
Update:
According to these guys, NDA on P67 will lift in Jan
http://www.vortez.co.uk/articles_pages/asus_p8p67_motherboard_preview,1.html
"Below we have an unboxing video of the forthcoming ASUS P8P67 motherboard. Please bear in mind that at this stage only an unbox and preview of the features are currently permitted. Performance results will be published in January when Intel lifts the embargo. Meanwhile, enjoy! (Pictures on the following pages with closeup shots)"
Looks like Gigabyte P67 boards have no mention of EFI so far, ASUS is my only option as it stands and only if they get the bios C++ code finished by Jan., ECS extreme P67 is still unknown, "regular" ECS has no mention
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Previews/ecs_p67_h67_sandy_bridge/
All the MSI P67 boards show the "click bios" as in click mouse/KB, so they should all be EFI ready but implementation is still an unknown.
From 2009 Jan:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2009/01/11/msi-click-bios-evaluating-uefi-review/1
P67:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/msi-p67--h67-motherboard-line-up-pictured/10274.html
Update 2:
This is strictly for geeks..........
I may have found out why the HDTune sw gives those annoying spikes when on an emulated drive. If you read this pdf carefully, it tells whats going on. While Samsung is not an SSD drive, it behaves like one to the HDTune benchmark when its on the drive.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res_old/images/Configuring-and-Setting-Up-SSDs.pdf
Heres some real craziness from ECS
A P67 mobo with a 1156 socket - wow!
Use your current CPU on P67 chipset
Rep says avail in Dec and he specifically mentions uEFI ready
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/17732/asrock_p67_transformer_motherboard_video_hands_on/index.html
I was going to buy another P55, but I'll wait now
Looks like all the ASUS P67 will have the EFI implementation
Heres the ROG Extreme
http://vr-zone.com/articles/first-l...me-intel-p67-express-motherboard/10408-4.html
"Starting with the Intel P67 Express, motherboard manufacturers have moved towards implementing EFI BIOSes on all their motherboards for Intel's new Sandy Bridge platform. The EFI BIOS sports a graphical user interface complete with input from a mouse. The stunning GUI on the Maximus IV Extreme makes you wanting never to go back to legacy BIOSes"
I just wonder if they are still backwards compatible with MBR DOS bios or is it oficially gone? Or does it offer different flashes for ea?
New Update:
Just ran into this GPT protected partition thing: (MAC Pro with Win 7 with bootcamp)
Looked around a little and found this fantastic MS page on GPT EFI ESP MSR MBR stuff, explained in detail. Great resource, especially since the P67 boards will be around on Jan 9
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/gpt_faq.mspx
xtrmemesys website just came out with a super preview of the gigabyte flagship P67 board. According to poster it would appear that 32MB is min size bios chip for EFI ready and that Gigabyte will be EFI "capable" with a bios flash (at a later date?) while the ASUS IS EFI right out the gate
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263543
==================================
Fooled around with the Paragon Alignment Tool
On the 2TB samsung (with the diskpart 1024K offset) says everything fine - no align needed
Offered align on the 640 GB WDC black, but thats because i partitioned it with gparted which leaves those ext3 7MB part info hiddens which Windows cant see.and denotes as unallocated.
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Now Seagate enters the fray, with a "high performance" series of green AFT 4096B drives - 1TB 1.5TB and 2TB that do their own aligning!
Quote:
Not only do Barracuda® Green drives offer environmental improvements in power consumption and material usage, but these drives are also among the first hard drives from Seagate to offer SmartAlign technology, said Dave Mosley, Seagate executive vice president of Sales, Marketing and Product Line Management. This is important because the industry is transitioning to 4K sector formatting called Advanced Format to improve capacities and maintain strong error correction. However, the transition to Advanced Format without SmartAlign technology can be complex and require additional integration steps and software utilities to avoid performance degradation. SmartAlign technology removes these concerns and takes this transition virtually invisible for our customers.
http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...toid=8e008b70802dc210VgnVCM1000001a48090aRCRD
=====================
After downloading and looking at the various P67 mobo manuals for boards about to be released, it looks like there will be no dif bios for EFI and MBR bios. They will handle both. What separates them is that some have the EFI GUI with all the bells and whistles - KB mouse support, on the fly O/C changes, ability to save bios settings as a profile, ability to make a screenshot etc.
By far the sexiest interface is the MSI (GD65), whilst the Giga UD4 has the normal plain black bios interface with no advanced GUI features. The MSI bios at this time will be only online update - you will go to net from bios and site will install latest bios as needed.
The Gigabyte P67 is undergoing a lot of bios changes now, and the board is not even released. The latest F5 just now adds 3TB + bios support - which is EFI.
Asus has noithing to DL yet, but the boards are now for sale in US at 3 dif locations. I will be getting the deluxe which is now $235. I could buy now, but will wait for CPU's (which are selling now in Malaysia)
MSI has the interesting "enter the EFI shell" option in bios.
At this point, it looks like you will be able to use either MBR or EFI with P67, with MBR emulation if needed.
So, you wont get EFI >2.19TB unless you are in AHCI mode not SATA IDE emulate. In other words this forces you to load P67 chip AHCI SATA driver during install, which makes sense. You have to be working THRU the chip.
ftp://174.142.97.10/manual/P67 Professional.pdf
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=downloadfile&dno=13472&type=manual
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-p67a-ud4_e.pdf
And now, Intels new RST (Rapid storage tech) has come out with new GPT ready driver 10.1.1008
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sea...=Intel®+Rapid+Storage+Technology+(Intel®+RST)
Also just out Win 7 SP1 RTM reportedly has sandybridge support
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Still fooling around with Paragon PAT Tool. I had a real prob with my old multiboot drive that has my O/S fully configured which I use for cloning. Unfotunately when I clone it takes along the MBR and the 32K offset. I wanted those O/S partitions but without the XP offset, rather the Win 7 offset.
So I cloned the drive to the 2TB Samsung, which brought along the 32K offset as expected, then I ran the samung trough the PAT Tool from the master drive (1TB WDC Black). It made the Samsung clone now at 2048K offset (2MB or 2048 X 1024). Which was great. It basically makes the new offset, then shifts ea and every LBA address acoordingly. Now i could use the samsung for cloning.Then just for the hell of it, I also aligned the 1TB WDC with the 32K offset, while the samsung was still connected - which was a mistake. The tool then made an offset of 2048 for each and every partition on both drives!! ARRRGH. Doesnt hurt anything, but not what i wanted. Tested in HDTACH - no dif in benches 1024K or 2048K. I might note this would be perfect for SSD's with 4096 mem pages.
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