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Forgive me Ducatisti...

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indeed.

as far as literbikes go, the S1000RR / HP4 and the Kawsaki ZX10R take the cake IIRC.

I still <3 yamahas though, even though I'm currently riding for team green 😛

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would choose one over the other... they're all so close in performance. I've come to the point where I buy bikes based on how they move me from a purely aesthetic and spiritual point of view... and as such I probably won't be choosing this one.

Ride your own ride and enjoy it. Leave the HP wars to the racers and corpses.
 
There's a massive difference in the "feel" of the bike, power aside. 0-100 specs are similar, sure, but turn-in through corners is vastly different.

In my experience, with the supersports, it has to do with rake angle and the length of the bike:

Triumph (daytona 675), KTM.. feels like they have EXTREMELY steep rake... So the bike almost wants to fall over on itself when you turn slowly. Some people really like this... If you're very skilled, or riding only on smooth track-like surfaces, it's fantastic. But if you hit a bump mid-corner on the street... not so much. Some of this can be fixed with steering dampers for street use. Overall they feel twitchy.

Suzuki/Honda tend to be in the middle with steering feel and rake angle.

Then on the other end you have ducati and bmw, and to a lesser extent kawi. Ducati supersports seem to have less steep rake (or at least, they feel like that) and tend to be longer bikes. So they feel MUCH more planted. They're a little more difficult to lean over, you kind of have to use your bodyweight rather than just turn the bars, but it makes you feel more like 'one with the bike'. They just soak up bumps in the corners with no problem. BMW achieves this with their goofy front steering.



Regarding 600 vs 1000. Keep in mind that I am a huge proponent of learning to ride on 500cc bikes, 650 twin max, then moving up to a liter twin non-supersport before buying ANY supersport bike.

But, in the 'how easy to ride' discussion, liter supersports are much better and safer than 600. 600cc powerbands start out dead.. 2000rpm, 3000, 4000, no power.. Then, all the sudden at 5000-6000rpm you get 100hp almost instantly. It's the perfect recipes for wrecking mid corner trying to learn throttle control.

literbikes have much more predictable power... 2000, 3000rpm, you have 60hp, 4000rpm 70hp, 5000rpm 90hp, 6000rpm 100hp... It's just easier to gradually get on the throttle, particularly if you want or need to go fast.
 
Oh, definitely. I would be scared out of my wits on any modern sportbike over 600cc, particularly a literbike. That being said, one thing I admire about motorcycles is that I could easily afford a truly state of the art, scorching fast bike, whereas I can't and probably never will be able to afford a comparable car. It's largely an academic discussion but I do love the idea of it (which, among other reasons, is why I am not shitting on this thread the way you shit on every supercar thread).

You just took a big smelly dump on this thread... congrats. 🙄
 
can't really use your bodyweight to turn the bike. keith code proved that with the no bs bike. you might be able to wiggle the bike a little bit though. with good body positioning you can keep the bike more upright and use less angle. increases the contact patch and you can get on the throttle earlier.
 
can't really use your bodyweight to turn the bike. keith code proved that with the no bs bike. you might be able to wiggle the bike a little bit though. with good body positioning you can keep the bike more upright and use less angle. increases the contact patch and you can get on the throttle earlier.



Ok you aren't literally turning the bike, but you are using your body as a counterweight. Which helps make turning easier.. And gives you better contact patch.
 
No apologies necessary but how could you find that thing lovely in comparison to Ducati?

images



Even the yammy does the insect look better

images


Now if it is basically a de-tuned RR then the appeal may be the performance. But a looker she is not.
 
Well... BMW isn't really known for sexy bikes like ducati.

They're more industrial technical design, it looks that way because "it has to" look that way.. Not because they chose for it to look that way.
 
No apologies necessary but how could you find that thing lovely in comparison to Ducati?

Now if it is basically a de-tuned RR then the appeal may be the performance. But a looker she is not.

I never said that. I said it is hideous but everything else about the bike looks amazing (meaning the performance/price/weight etc).

And it is basically a re-tuned RR. It makes a bit less hp but more torque at a lower RPM.
 
Once additional difference between the RR and the R for 2014 is that the R has the option of adding dynamic damping control (DDC), which is the fancy "up to 100x a second" auto-adjusting suspension they use on the HP4. The 2014 BMW S1000RR apparently DOES NOT have that option, and solely because they're selling the HP4 for 2014. Once the HP4 goes away (2015, I guess?) then they'll give the option of DDC on the 2015 S1000RR.
 
There's a massive difference in the "feel" of the bike, power aside. 0-100 specs are similar, sure, but turn-in through corners is vastly different.

In my experience, with the supersports, it has to do with rake angle and the length of the bike:

Triumph (daytona 675), KTM.. feels like they have EXTREMELY steep rake... So the bike almost wants to fall over on itself when you turn slowly. Some people really like this... If you're very skilled, or riding only on smooth track-like surfaces, it's fantastic. But if you hit a bump mid-corner on the street... not so much. Some of this can be fixed with steering dampers for street use. Overall they feel twitchy.

While my Street Triple R does like to fall into corners, it's never done it in a way to scare me, rather it's very enjoyable to see a corner, think about turning, and the bike simply following my thoughts. That said, I do agree that I have hit some bumps in the corner that have frightened me a bit.

Regarding 600 vs 1000. Keep in mind that I am a huge proponent of learning to ride on 500cc bikes, 650 twin max, then moving up to a liter twin non-supersport before buying ANY supersport bike.

Agreed. Putting 1000mi/month on my GS500 and learning to ride well so as to keep up with 600cc & 1,000cc supersports was invaluable.

But, in the 'how easy to ride' discussion, liter supersports are much better and safer than 600. 600cc powerbands start out dead.. 2000rpm, 3000, 4000, no power.. Then, all the sudden at 5000-6000rpm you get 100hp almost instantly. It's the perfect recipes for wrecking mid corner trying to learn throttle control.

Another reason I love the Street Triple. The torque and HP curves are almost straight and there's no unpredictability in the power. Probably one reason why they haven't really changed the motor in almost 6 years.

literbikes have much more predictable power... 2000, 3000rpm, you have 60hp, 4000rpm 70hp, 5000rpm 90hp, 6000rpm 100hp... It's just easier to gradually get on the throttle, particularly if you want or need to go fast.

I'd love to get a Speed Triple R, but the Street is more than enough.
 
And you did it again... 🙄

It's okay, that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is you jumping down my throat for something you're doing yourself.

Simmer down. In general I like you. I was just mystified by your shitting on those threads for no reason. I am not a motorcyclist but I do appreciate them from an engineering and aesthetic perspective, and like this thread even though I will never own a motorcycle. Just look at my posts . . .
 
Simmer down. In general I like you. I was just mystified by your shitting on those threads for no reason. I am not a motorcyclist but I do appreciate them from an engineering and aesthetic perspective, and like this thread even though I will never own a motorcycle. Just look at my posts . . .

No worries, we're cool.

I don't mean to come off as thread crapping, it just seems kind of pointless when people start posting how car X, which must of us will never own, lapped a track nobody here will ever drive on, at some amazing speed none of us could never match... and all of us do own cars. 😛

Believe me, I get the lure of these tests but you have to admit that it is kind of pointless for most everyone who buys these cars. Hell, youtube is full of vids of guys who own these awesome cars losing control just going around a corner with the TC off and smashing it into a tree, let alone the Nurburgring.

I've been a car nut since before I could drive, which was in the early 1980s, and back then the only cars lapping the Nurburgring were racing cars and the highest hp car you could drive on the road had 300hp. Now your average family sedan has that much power and you can buy many cars with twice that much power but the average driver isn't really any better. In many ways they're probably worse. It is comedic really... and that was really my point. I probably don't convey that well with just a sentence or two though. I get it. I have a very dry sense of humor. 😉

I appreciate the feedback though and I will try to refrain from making those comments.
 
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I never said that. I said it is hideous but everything else about the bike looks amazing (meaning the performance/price/weight etc).

And it is basically a re-tuned RR. It makes a bit less hp but more torque at a lower RPM.

Had me a tennis star once......hideous face but the rest of the package was insanely hot. I get it. You ride the hell out of it and don't look over your shoulder when you dismount. Just walk away with that grin on your face.
 
Had me a tennis star once......hideous face but the rest of the package was insanely hot. I get it. You ride the hell out of it and don't look over your shoulder when you dismount. Just walk away with that grin on your face.

:thumbsup: I do look at the Duc when I dismount. It does look fantastic.
 
There's a massive difference in the "feel" of the bike, power aside. 0-100 specs are similar, sure, but turn-in through corners is vastly different.

In my experience, with the supersports, it has to do with rake angle and the length of the bike:

Triumph (daytona 675), KTM.. feels like they have EXTREMELY steep rake... So the bike almost wants to fall over on itself when you turn slowly. Some people really like this... If you're very skilled, or riding only on smooth track-like surfaces, it's fantastic. But if you hit a bump mid-corner on the street... not so much. Some of this can be fixed with steering dampers for street use. Overall they feel twitchy.

Suzuki/Honda tend to be in the middle with steering feel and rake angle.

Then on the other end you have ducati and bmw, and to a lesser extent kawi. Ducati supersports seem to have less steep rake (or at least, they feel like that) and tend to be longer bikes. So they feel MUCH more planted. They're a little more difficult to lean over, you kind of have to use your bodyweight rather than just turn the bars, but it makes you feel more like 'one with the bike'. They just soak up bumps in the corners with no problem. BMW achieves this with their goofy front steering.

Regarding 600 vs 1000. Keep in mind that I am a huge proponent of learning to ride on 500cc bikes, 650 twin max, then moving up to a liter twin non-supersport before buying ANY supersport bike.

But, in the 'how easy to ride' discussion, liter supersports are much better and safer than 600. 600cc powerbands start out dead.. 2000rpm, 3000, 4000, no power.. Then, all the sudden at 5000-6000rpm you get 100hp almost instantly. It's the perfect recipes for wrecking mid corner trying to learn throttle control.

literbikes have much more predictable power... 2000, 3000rpm, you have 60hp, 4000rpm 70hp, 5000rpm 90hp, 6000rpm 100hp... It's just easier to gradually get on the throttle, particularly if you want or need to go fast.

Is that really true? The dyno charts on these 600s seem pretty linear. Certainly not like "OMG VTAKKKKK" once you hit a certain RPM.

13_honda_cbr600rr_twobros.jpg


11ss_kaw.jpg
 
Is that really true? The dyno charts on these 600s seem pretty linear. Certainly not like "OMG VTAKKKKK" once you hit a certain RPM.

hes exaggerating but it is kinda true

liter bikes aren't that different these days, but they just have more power everywhere 😛
2011-aprilia-rsv4-r-track-vs-yamaha-r1-a-dyno.jpg
 
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