Forget John Romero - XBox360 and PS3 ARE *Doomed*

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Sounds like a hell of a party, apoppin!

Sony's party sounds like it was in bad taste, but this kind of a reaction is a joke. Millions of animals are slaughtered for our food every day, yet one visiblely decapitated goat is cruelty to animals??? Are you f***ing kidding me? People are out of touch with reality, if a slaughtered goat is animal cruelty, but millions of goats, cows, chickens and other animals are acceptable.

To call killing one goat which they fed to/paraded at a party "senseless" - give me a break. There's bigger problems in the world than getting your panties in a bunch over this.

But whatever, anything that makes Sony or MS look bad, right? You're turning into one of those message board trolls, like our good pal Rollo, who digs up dirt on the other guy only, to prove just how bad they are.

*why* are you LECTURING me?


i *didn't* have a *reaction*

i QUOTED the article - which did

do you even see a difference?
:roll:

i *only* said "sony is getting stoopid"

yet *you* call me a troll for posting news ... when all you have is your half-quotes and angry personal opinion
:thumbsdown:

---as to the *other troll* ... good riddance!

i can *prove* what i said about QuadCore being in the majority of rigs in 18 months

--i already quoted it here

 

[SickBeast]

If the Wii supported at least 720p I would say that it might survive, but really its graphics are already too dated. I just picked up a GameCube for $60 and have been playing Mario and Zelda on my 2405FPW...it's cute, but looks too grainy. All it needs is a higher resolution to look really good!

Personally I'm looking forward to the successor to the Wii.

 

[AmdInside]

The article is stupid. All three game consoles will survive. The market is large enough to sustain all three consoles. What will go away over time is small game publishers as it will require more and more money to develop games for current gaming consoles and there are no room for flops. If a software gaming development company has a couple of games flop, it may bankrupt them.

I want to hear software sales on the Wii and other consoles. While I like my Wii, I actually believe the PS3 has better overall software titles than the Wii. The Wii only has two good titles, Wii Sports and Zelda. And while both consoles are backwards compatible, the PS3 has a better software library because of its PS2 support than the Wii has with its Gamecube support. Software companies are still producing PS2 titles while I really don't see any new Gamecube titles being released. If I were to choose one console to go away, it would actually be the Xbox 360.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Matt2
Well, considering a graphics card required to run any new PC game at 1920x1200 with max settings and any kind of AA or AF costs $100 more than an Xbox360 premium, I can live with the 360 not using AA at 1080p.

Hell, I'm suffering through STALKER at 1920x1200 with the settings knocked down to below half, no AA and no AF and I STILL get a minimum of 5FPS.

damn nvidia drivers :Q

sure


no prob for me .... at 14x9 ... runs fluidly

and i gotta hand it to you .... you may indeed be right ...

--i guess you DO *need* an xbox

and expect a new STALKER patch ... pretty soon, i guess
:thumbsup:

--and AA is available

and IF you guys think this thread SUCKS ... :lips:

--there is ALWAYS the flamewar thread over r600 benchs ...
... and the AMD viral marketing thread ...
:laugh:

Nvidia drivers? You mean my Catalyst 7.4's?

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: MyStupidMouth

Originally posted by: apoppin


late '08 brings a *flood* of DX10 titles ...
... and in 18 months most rigs will be Quad core

Nevermind. That comment just made me be finshed with this thread.

Yeah I don't expect more then a couple real DX10 games in 08 if we are lucky. Also most PC's will be Quad Core in the next 18 months? No way. Most ppl won't have a use for them.

Dual Core? Maybe. Quad? No. I just think gaming is years off of really needing Quad. Yeah newer games could put them to use but I think Dual Core will be enough for a long time to come. Quads gonna only be needed for the hardcore ppl that need the latest and greatest of everything and can afford it.

 

[apoppin]

i don't expect you guys to read all this long thread

but Quad core IS expected in 18 months ... again ...

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: josh6079

the PS3 is out in the cold ... overambitious ... overpriced ... too late ... too little

the xbox wins

the PC wins

the Wii wins

and then the xbox360 is next ....

I don't think redbox is arguing with you about what consoles are better and where the PC stacks against them. I think he's just saying that there will always be consoles and PC's in the market because both cater to different buyers. That's why I think he's saying consoles won't die, and PC's won't die.

that is not *all* he has been saying

i *agree* with the part you just posted

but i *am* pointing out that the PS3 may well "die"

the Xbox360 is in no danger neither is the Wii

what i - and John Romero - are looking for is a renaissance of PC gaming ... and partly due to the PS3's failure ... it "wanted" to compete with the PC's best gfx but falls way short - in every way

and i am looking forward to Alan Wake and it's *recommended* 4 cores, DX10 and Vista


http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/04/19/quad-core_not_mainstream_until_09/

Quad-core won't make it big until 2009 - reseacher

By Tony Smith in Beijing
19th April 2007 09:02 GMT


IDF How soon will we be merrily running our applications and games on four-core systems? Market watcher iSuppli reckons only a few will go quad-core this year, but by the end of 2009 - just over 18 months away - half of us will have takens that step.

Around 16 per cent of the performance desktops that shipped were quad-core systems, iSuppli said, many of them to people working in the content creation industries.

Gamers have been slower to hop on board, largely because there are few if any games out there capable of taking full advantage of such systems, Intel Digital Enterprise Group director Steve Smith told us today.

But he noted a big "mindshare shift" on the part of games makers, and claimed there is now a "strong development focus" on multi-threaded games.

That's one reason why, come Q4, quad-core systems will account for 33 per cent of PCs sold during that quarter, according to iSuppli. The share will have risen to 94 per cent by the end of 2009.

Mainstream quad-core boxes will move more slowly, accounting for just five per cent of the systems shipped in Q4, the researcher forecast, jumping to 54 per cent as 2009 turns into 2010. Smith likewise estimated a 2007 share of "single figures", confirming forecasts the chip giant has made internally.

But since the performance segment - essentially all the PCs that cost more than $1000 - only accounts for six per cent of PCs sold, so many, many more of the quad-core systems that are going to be sold in 2009 will be mainstream models rather than high-end rigs.

*most MAINSTREAM rigs* will be quad-core in 18 months ... the PS3 will be completely whipped - HALFWAY thru it's cycle - and the PC will again be an awesome gaming machine ... MAINSTREAM pc ...

EDIT ... Matt2 .. i am sorry but i was kidding you ... not the drivers
[nvidia really does need a better patch for stalker]

--you know ... the non-tech n00bs that *need* an xbox to play video games

:Q

 

[Matt2]

In 18 months the PS3 will still be able to play PS3 games as the developer intended.

IN 18 months every PC in the world will be obsolete.

 

[josh6079]

nevermind

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Matt2
In 18 months the PS3 will still be able to play PS3 games as the developer intended.

IN 18 months every PC in the world will be obsolete.

the PS3 *already* doesn't play games the way the Developer originally intended

nevermind 2 years

and it depends on which PCs ... the current DC+8800/x2900 should be fine for late 08's games ....

after that it really changes

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Matt2
In 18 months the PS3 will still be able to play PS3 games as the developer intended.

IN 18 months every PC in the world will be obsolete.

Is that why Call of Duty 3 and FEAR run like crap, and Oblivion took over a year to port with minimal graphical differences and missing add-ons? Is the PS3 too good for such lowly ports?

 

[AmdInside]

Its amazing but we are getting to a point where developers really have to compress information in order to fit content onto a DVD media. I think in the future, the fact that the PS3 uses Blu-ray discs will benefit it in many ways. It would be like buying a game today that was pressed on a CD instead of a DVD. I am not saying next year but the year after, I think you will see a lot of games that will have trouble fitting onto a single DVD disc.

 

[JackBurton]

Hey, I just got a 360 Elite. NICE!

 

[Pugnate]

Originally posted by: Matt2
In 18 months the PS3 will still be able to play PS3 games as the developer intended.

IN 18 months every PC in the world will be obsolete.

What nonsense.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: AmdInside
Its amazing but we are getting to a point where developers really have to compress information in order to fit content onto a DVD media. I think in the future, the fact that the PS3 uses Blu-ray discs will benefit it in many ways. It would be like buying a game today that was pressed on a CD instead of a DVD. I am not saying next year but the year after, I think you will see a lot of games that will have trouble fitting onto a single DVD disc.

well, you can get a BluRay burner ... shortly ... from Pioneer for $300 for your PC ...

or ... if you think HD-DVD is more to your tastes - with very nice storage capacities also - you can have it for your PC
--or both


you are not "locked into" one fixed format like with the PS3

and by next year these burners will be $50 ...
:Q

letsee ... what advantage will PS3 have ... then?


time keeps on slippin' ... slippin' ... slippin' ...
... into the future .... :clock:

... for Sony Corp ... and all they can think of is "bad taste" launch parties to generate negative publicity
--freshly beheaded goat guts anyone?
:evil:

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AmdInside
Its amazing but we are getting to a point where developers really have to compress information in order to fit content onto a DVD media. I think in the future, the fact that the PS3 uses Blu-ray discs will benefit it in many ways. It would be like buying a game today that was pressed on a CD instead of a DVD. I am not saying next year but the year after, I think you will see a lot of games that will have trouble fitting onto a single DVD disc.

well, you can get a BluRay burner ... shortly ... from Pioneer for $300 for your PC ...

or ... if you think HD-DVD is more to your tastes - with very nice storage capacities also - you can have it for your PC
--or both


you are not "locked into" one fixed format like with the PS3

and by next year these burners will be $50 ...
:Q

letsee ... what advantage will PS3 have ... then?


time keeps on slippin' ... slippin' ... slippin' ...
... into the future .... :clock:

... for Sony Corp ... and all they can think of is "bad taste" launch parties to generate negative publicity
--freshly beheaded goat guts anyone?
:evil:

I wasn't referring to PC. I was referring to the Wii and Xbox 360.

 

[apoppin]

well then

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hddvdplayer/

HD DVD is for xbox360 and has no disadvantage when compared with BluRay

score *zero* advantage for the PS2

 

[apoppin]

the *latest*

PC gaming IS making a "comeback"

coincidently

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13654
[--in part]

April 24, 2007

U.S. PC Game Sales Up 48% So Far In 2007

U.S. PC Game Sales Up 48% So Far In 2007 According to data from research firm NPD Group, sales of PC games have risen by 48 percent on the previous year, during the first two months of 2007, with sales lead by the success of Blizzard?s World of WarCraft and its expansion The Burning Crusade.

Speaking in a feature by The New York Times, NPD?s Anita Frazier indicated that U.S. retails sales of PC games have risen to $203 million, from $136.8 million a year earlier. These figures do not include online sales or online subscriptions to massively multiplayer online (MMO) games such as World of WarCraft.

...

oh yeah ... Halo 3 as the *saviour* of MS Xbox360 ... read on


http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39284

Joystiq had its own analysis of the leaked Halo 3 beta this week, commenting on the poor quality of graphics and textures. We've also had a close eye on leaked/published images of the game, and must concur that the games graphics do currently seem to be below par, considering the quality from the likes of GRAW and GoW.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: apoppin

oh yeah ... Halo 3 as the *saviour* of MS Xbox360 ... read on


http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39284

Joystiq had its own analysis of the leaked Halo 3 beta this week, commenting on the poor quality of graphics and textures. We've also had a close eye on leaked/published images of the game, and must concur that the games graphics do currently seem to be below par, considering the quality from the likes of GRAW and GoW.

Bungie employee KP has recently commented on the matter of the leaked Halo 3 vid showcasing a remake of Halo 2's Zanzibar on the HBO forums. He makes it very clear why Bungie does not support leaks.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I shouldn't really comment on this stuff at all but it's bothering me. The game looks nothing like Halo 2. Some objects are the same in that they're the same shape and colors, but everything is so much more detailed. You can't see that because the video is a lo-res, poorly compressed leak of an unfinished product. Something never intended for public consumption, a part of a test that has nothing to do with graphics so the build isn't made to look as good as it could. If Bungie were showing you a video they would have released something in hidef showcasing only the things that're actually finished. You should not be judging the state of the game based off of this. You cannot compare a video that Bungie created for you versus a video which Bungie never intended for you to see. KP

 

[apoppin]

what do you think they are gonna say? ... "yeah, it looks awful"


*hopefully* they are addressing it ...
but it may not be the 360's "saviour"
-- as many many have suggested [here]

ANYWAY, we see the consoles slipping AND PC gaming gaining

---*coincidence*?
:Q









---i think so



but still a 'trend' worth noting .... i'll update it when something 'big' breaks
--you'll all love that

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Come on bro, The holiday season is the peak for consoles, sales decline 1Q is expected. PC sales being up is good for the sector, because they were still not at 2004 levels yet, perhaps this latest boost will push it beyond that.

As to H3, What is to address? I have np trouble believing we saw a lowres unfinished clip. Even the MP beta coming out in a few weeks won't be the finished product. I postulate that H3 will be close to GoW numbers@3+ million copies, and pick-up the install base in the 7 figures as well.

We'll see how this all shakes out. :sun:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Come on bro, The holiday season is the peak for consoles, sales decline 1Q is expected. PC sales being up is good for the sector, because they were still not at 2004 levels yet, perhaps this latest boost will push it beyond that.

As to H3, What is to address? I have np trouble believing we saw a lowres unfinished clip. Even the MP beta coming out in a few weeks won't be the finished product. I postulate that H3 will be close to GoW numbers@3+ million copies, and pick-up the install base in the 7 figures as well.

We'll see how this all shakes out. :sun:

come on -what?


we already *had* a "big" holiday season
--the nextGen consoles didn't do so well :frown:

AND ... we have a dichotomy - by your admission -

the consoles are not doing well - now

BUT -- PC gaming IS doing record sales - now
:Q

so ... what is it?

... and have you been keeping up with this whole long thread ...?
it looks like you missed everything in the "middle"

 

[jiffylube1024]

Apoppin, a lot of your points are based on speculation, and your info is just regurgitation without synthesis.

BD/HD-DVD burners next year for $50? I don't think so. It usually takes about a year or more for them to drop to that price (like DVD burners, which debuted at $300+). BD/HD-DVD burners aren't even out yet in the mainstream... BD/HD-DVD readers aren't even readily available, certainly not at reasonable prices.
-----

PC gaming doing a record in sales? Yeah, because World of Warcraft has 7 million subscribers. There's no indication that other than the MMORPG craze spearheaded by WoW, the PC industry is growing that much, and it's certainly not diversifying.
-----


As for Halo 3, I agree, the beta looks terrible - like a souped up Halo 1. But the thing is, MS has stated that they're working on the gameplay first, and the visuals are in no way representative of the final game. It's definitely underwhelming because they seem to be using a variation of the same engine, but we'll have to wait and see if the final looks like the beta or not.
-----


One thing I don't get is, where the future of PC gaming lies. Is it in the HTPC, or the desktop PC still? What about mobile gaming? Aside from MMORPG's (which frankly do require a keyboard and mouse), where is PC gaming headed?


And Matt2's comments re: the PS3 and PC are pretty accurate. Consoles are supposed to have a ~5 year lifecycle. PS3 is barely into year one. Xbox360 has been out for a year and change.

AAA titles, which usually come out after a year to a year and a half are taking even longer due to growing development times.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
PC gaming doing a record in sales? Yeah, because World of Warcraft has 7 million subscribers. There's no indication that other than the MMORPG craze spearheaded by WoW, the PC industry is growing that much, and it's certainly not diversifying.

(I believe apoppin's numbers were *not* including MMORPG's.)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Apoppin, a lot of your points are based on speculation, and your info is just regurgitation without synthesis.

now i *have* to ask ... did you read ALL this thread ? ... it sure dosen't look like it ... and "of course" it is "regurgitation" of what i read and analyze myself

[/quote]BD/HD-DVD burners next year for $50? I don't think so. It usually takes about a year or more for them to drop to that price (like DVD burners, which debuted at $300+). BD/HD-DVD burners aren't even out yet in the mainstream... BD/HD-DVD readers aren't even readily available, certainly not at reasonable prices.[/quote]betcha ... by X-mas '08 ... the BluRay Pioneer *burner* just got launched ... $300 MSR in China ... our market to follow ...
WalMarh "choose" HD-DVD over BluRay and there *will* be a price war
-----

PC gaming doing a record in sales? Yeah, because World of Warcraft has 7 million subscribers. There's no indication that other than the MMORPG craze spearheaded by WoW, the PC industry is growing that much, and it's certainly not diversifying.

WoW has been *out* for QUITE awhile and we are talking about an increase *this year* in PC gaming ... and they do NOT count WoW or any MMORPG monthly fees
-----

As for Halo 3, I agree, the beta looks terrible - like a souped up Halo 1. But the thing is, MS has stated that they're working on the gameplay first, and the visuals are in no way representative of the final game. It's definitely underwhelming because they seem to be using a variation of the same engine, but we'll have to wait and see if the final looks like the beta or not.
-----


One thing I don't get is, where the future of PC gaming lies. Is it in the HTPC, or the desktop PC still? What about mobile gaming? Aside from MMORPG's (which frankly do require a keyboard and mouse), where is PC gaming headed?


And Matt2's comments re: the PS3 and PC are pretty accurate. Consoles are supposed to have a ~5 year lifecycle. PS3 is barely into year one. Xbox360 has been out for a year and change.

AAA titles, which usually come out after a year to a year and a half are taking even longer due to growing development times.

the last part we are agreeing on ... this launch is *way different* than those of past years .... and it doesn't look "good" [at the very least "in comparison"] and devs no longer have to be "exclusive" to one console or the other ... EA is revising the entire year's sales downward because of the PS3 crappy sales ... that means they won't be developing as many games for it --or if they do, they will not be "exclusive" giving no one a reason to buy PS3 over the cheaper Xbox360.

i am "guessing" that the PC will finally fulfill it's *purpose* as a WIRELESS entertainment system for the whole house ... we need cheap and powerful HW ... it is coming in QC ... which amazingly will be "mainstream" about the time you can buy your $50 HD burner [my prediction]

the xbox will be stuck by the Big TV or in the kids room ...
[actually the Wii will be in the kids' room]

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: Pugnate

Originally posted by: Matt2
In 18 months the PS3 will still be able to play PS3 games as the developer intended.

IN 18 months every PC in the world will be obsolete.

What nonsense.

What the hell? Nonsense? You saying that my comment is nonsense is complete and utter nonsense.

In 18 months Xbox360 and PS3 games will look better than they do today. If you think otherwise, I advise you to check out year 1 releases for Xbox and PS2 and then play a recent Xbox or PS2 game. On top of looking better, I'll still be able to play my Xbox360 games at 1080P. No reducing texture quality, no sacrificing dynamic lighting, no overclocking my Xbox to death just to get playable framerates.

On the other hand, in 18 months, a top of the line computer will be a steaming pile of poo. My Opteron 170 @ 2.8GHZ, X1900XTX and 2GB RAM rig is less than twelve months old and it's already obsolete as far as I'm concerned. I already have problems playing games at native resolution with decent quality settings, let alone the max quality settings with AA and AF that I was so used to when my PC was top of the line. In another six months, I wont even bother firing up a PC game because I like my games to run faster than 5 fps.

If you think I'm making this up, I urge you to not upgrade your PC for 18 months and see how happy you are with your gaming experience.

That is all.