Forget John Romero - XBox360 and PS3 ARE *Doomed*

[apoppin]

now that that is established ...

miss you ...

and

aloha


can we get back to the topic ...

and the "usual" flames and fluff

it's about the *future* of Video games

 

[apoppin]

i'll start again with an example of a *successful* console launch AND "follow-up" ... no doubt nintendo has NO problem with exclusives, either:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39232

NINTENDO PRESIDENT Satoru Iwata has promised to boost Wii production by next month after a period of severe shortages due to massive demand for Nintendo's new console.

"We must do our best to fix this abnormal lack of stock," Iwata said. "We have not been able to properly foresee demand. We will do our best to offer the machine for those who are waiting."

This comes shortly after rumours of Nintendo searching for further manufacturing partners to ramp up the manufacturing and supply of its sort-after consoles.

Further backing up these rumours and the promises from Iwata, a Nintendo spokesperson confirmed to GamesIndustry.biz that the company plans to increase Wii production as demand for the console continues to outstrip supply.

"For the first three months of this year we have been producing one million hardware units per month. We are increasing the manufacturing capacity and forecast to ship 14 million in this fiscal year to our distributors and retail customers globally," the spokesperson said.

These statements come shortly after Nintendo announced annual profits up 77.2% to ¥174.3bn ($1.4bn) for the year ending 31 March, with operating profit reaching ¥226.02bn ($1.9bn), which is an incredible 150% increase on last year?s figures.

Overall sales surged 90 per cent to a record ¥966.5 billion ($8.1 billion).

The record profits are certainly attributable to the incredible demand for Nintendo?s Wii and the continued sales of the DS.

Since its release in November 2006, Wii sales have topped 5.84m units globally along with almost 29m games, while DS sales exceeded 23m units along with game sales totaling 123m.

Nintendo also forecasted global sales of 14m Wii hardware units and 55m software unit sales in 2007's financial year, and projected sales of 22m DS systems and 130m games.

According to these predictions, the company forecast sales of ¥1.14tn, an 18% increase on 2006, and an operating profit growth of almost 20% to ¥270bn.

go ahead an post those Sony and MS figures for the 360 and PS3 so we can compare a real launch of a sought after product with *flop-flop*

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: apoppin
now that that is established ...

miss you ...

and

aloha


can we get back to the topic ...

and the "usual" flames and fluff

it's about the *future* of Video games

Until everyone agrees with you this is gonna be a never ending thread. We are all just going in circles IMO. I'll start first. The PC/Wii will rule all and the PS3 and 360 will fail because they are to much like PC's.

Still gonna get a 360 at the end of the year though

 

[redbox]

I think the question that needs to be asked is what changed this time around? The gamecube didn't do nearly this well against the Xbox and PS2. The gamecube had less hardware power than either the PS2 or Xbox, and sold poorly. Even the lower price of the gamecube wasn't enough to get the numbers up. This time around though Nintendo has a winner. Something about the Wii draws people to it, and given the past nintendo console it's not the price or the graphics. Is it possible that the controller is what is drawing people? Is it really that impressive? Or could it be the games, namely Zelda? I'm going with the games, and as such I will hold out on the PS3 untill it gets it's exclusives out there (read Final Fantasy). The same goes for the 360. PC gaming, on the other hand hasn't had anything new in the game area for awhile (excluding Stalker). IMO it NEEDS a popular game to push the sell of new graphics cards.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: apoppin
now that that is established ...

miss you ...

and

aloha


can we get back to the topic ...

and the "usual" flames and fluff

it's about the *future* of Video games

Until everyone agrees with you this is gonna be a never ending thread. We are all just going in circles IMO. I'll start first. The PC/Wii will rule all and the PS3 and 360 will fail because they are to much like PC's.

Still gonna get a 360 at the end of the year though

IF it's still available
:Q



just kidding

*no one* will ever agree with me ...

this is NOT the purpose of this thread ...

just to start a discussion ... a very different discussion

what has changed *this time* ?

well, especially Sony tried to "do it all" ... they actually tried to beat the PC's GFx ....
due to an extraordinarily long R&D and actually putting it together ... they failed miserably .. and then couldn't seem to figure how to sell it ... they didn't really push BluRay ... and even though they GAVE UMD disks away and counted it as "sales" ... the HD format may well win ... look at how crap BluRay has been SINCE the first few months

ANYWAY, too ambitions ... too little too late best describes PS3 IMO

and then came the Wii ... which really struck a chord - because it is *fun*

so the choice seems to be Xbox360 for gfx ... buying a Wii OR keeping the PS2 ....
--the only alternative the consumers NEVER considered was the PS3 for reasons i noted

NOW the *problem* for PS3 is not being able to get *exclusives* ... every damn Dev/Publisher doesn't like their sales and plans to ALSO release on the 360

 

[redbox]

Any word if Final Fantasy is jumping ship too? I would bet if PS3 gets a Final Fantasy game going their sells will pick up.

 

[apoppin]

even FF is *not* confirmed as a PS3 exclusive!
:Q

http://playstation.about.com/b/a/257855.htm

"Final Fantasy XIII" No Longer a PS3 Exclusive?!?
File under "freaky French rumor."

Kotaku published the following quote from the French newspaper Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace. In it Sony Computer Entertainment Europe's VP Georges Fornay said the following:

"Enfin, pour Final Fantasy XIII, je peux vous dire que l'exclusivité est en discussion (Lastly, for Final Fantasy XIII, I can say to you that exclusiveness is under discussion)."

Under discussion? Seriously? I think everyone on the planet already assumed this was a done deal. Final Fantasy XIII was supposed to be the biggest PS3 exclusive, overshadowing Metal Gear Solid 4.

http://www.ausgamers.com/news/html/2518186

Square Enix have confirmed FFXIII will not be exclusive to the PlayStation 3:

In news that is sure to rock the gaming world it has been confirmed that Final Fantasy XIII, the blockbuster RPG highly anticipated by millions of fans of the series, will not be an exclusive game for the PlayStation 3 console.

Interesting indeed - So add the next Final Fantasy game to the "not a Playstation exclusive anymore" list along with Metal Gear, Guitar Hero, Tekken and Devil May Cry to name a couple. Doesn't bode that well for Sony, given that those who bought an XB360 as a stopgap until FF13/MGS4 came out now have no reason to buy a new console to play them.

Now, does this mean that it isn't an exclusive? Of course not, perhaps the guy chose his words wrong. But you can bet that there are a lot of freaked out folks right now, wondering if there will be a Wii/Xbox 360 version of FFXIII. With FFXI on the Xbox 360 and Square Enix recently showing the DS lots of love, one really has to wonder if, indeed, the sky is falling. [/quote]

the sky IS falling
:shocked:

 

[redbox]

Interesting apoppin. They don't say however, what it will be on. FFXI was on PS2 about 5 years before it was on 360, but was released on the PC along with the North America release of the PS2.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: apoppin
now that that is established ...

miss you ...

and

aloha


can we get back to the topic ...

and the "usual" flames and fluff

it's about the *future* of Video games

Until everyone agrees with you this is gonna be a never ending thread. We are all just going in circles IMO. I'll start first. The PC/Wii will rule all and the PS3 and 360 will fail because they are to much like PC's.

Still gonna get a 360 at the end of the year though

IF it's still available
:Q



just kidding

*no one* will ever agree with me ...

this is NOT the purpose of this thread ...

just to start a discussion ... a very different discussion

what has changed *this time* ?

well, especially Sony tried to "do it all" ... they actually tried to beat the PC's GFx ....
due to an extraordinarily long R&D and actually putting it together ... they failed miserably .. and then couldn't seem to figure how to sell it ... they didn't really push BluRay ... and even though they GAVE UMD disks away and counted it as "sales" ... the HD format may well win ... look at how crap BluRay has been SINCE the first few months

ANYWAY, too ambitions ... too little too late best describes PS3 IMO

and then came the Wii ... which really struck a chord - because it is *fun*

so the choice seems to be Xbox360 for gfx ... buying a Wii OR keeping the PS2 ....
--the only alternative the consumers NEVER considered was the PS3 for reasons i noted

NOW the *problem* for PS3 is not being able to get *exclusives* ... every damn Dev/Publisher doesn't like their sales and plans to ALSO release on the 360

Well as long a Wii gets GTA IV or it gets released in Oct for PC instead I will be happy.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: redbox
Interesting apoppin. They don't say however, what it will be on. FFXI was on PS2 about 5 years before it was on 360, but was released on the PC along with the North America release of the PS2.

thank-you

and it is not *confirmed* absolutely that FFXIII will not be a PS3 exclusive

--but it is *shocking* to even consider it happening ... if you had told me - 3 years ago - that Sony would lose it's "clout" with certain well-established franchises - that screamed "sony exclusive" - i would have said you were nuts

times ARE a'changin'

ALL of my links are so *recent* as to be NEW ... mostly this month !

stay tuned ... this is STILL "Breaking News"
--and will be ... imo ... for quite awhile

who'd have thought?

 

[Matt2]

Well, considering a graphics card required to run any new PC game at 1920x1200 with max settings and any kind of AA or AF costs $100 more than an Xbox360 premium, I can live with the 360 not using AA at 1080p.

Hell, I'm suffering through STALKER at 1920x1200 with the settings knocked down to below half, no AA and no AF and I STILL get a minimum of 5FPS.

 

[Sniper82]

nt

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: Matt2
Hell, I'm suffering through STALKER at 1920x1200 with the settings knocked down to below half, no AA and no AF and I STILL get a minimum of 5FPS.

Thats the bad thing about PC games. You sometimes need the latest and greatest $300+ video card to really max a game out that should have been released 2-3 years ago.

If 360 and PS3 die then IMO gaming is dead. There ain't enough good PC games released fast enough to keep it alive. Although Wii might be doing good I don't see it keeping it alive alone. Good thing about a Wii is there is no need to buy a $600+ HDTV because it would be a waste.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: Matt2
Hell, I'm suffering through STALKER at 1920x1200 with the settings knocked down to below half, no AA and no AF and I STILL get a minimum of 5FPS.

Thats the bad thing about PC games. You sometimes need the latest and greatest $300+ video card to really max a game out that should have been released 2-3 years ago.

If 360 and PS3 die then IMO gaming is dead. There ain't enough good PC games released fast enough to keep it alive. Although Wii might be doing good I don't see it keeping it alive alone. Good think about a Wii is there is no need to buy a $600+ HDTV because it would be a waste.

I dont like the Wii at all. I was never into Nintendo's little kid feeling.

Xbox360 and PS3 may die, but they ideal will live on and we will indeed see Xbox720 and PS4. Then I will be able to badger apoppin about how much my Xbox720 blows his PC away. At least for a year and then we will relive this thread.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Matt2
Well, considering a graphics card required to run any new PC game at 1920x1200 with max settings and any kind of AA or AF costs $100 more than an Xbox360 premium, I can live with the 360 not using AA at 1080p.

Hell, I'm suffering through STALKER at 1920x1200 with the settings knocked down to below half, no AA and no AF and I STILL get a minimum of 5FPS.

damn nvidia drivers :Q

sure


no prob for me .... at 14x9 ... runs fluidly

and i gotta hand it to you .... you may indeed be right ...

--i guess you DO *need* an xbox

and expect a new STALKER patch ... pretty soon, i guess
:thumbsup:

--and AA is available

and IF you guys think this thread SUCKS ... :lips:

--there is ALWAYS the flamewar thread over r600 benchs ...
... and the AMD viral marketing thread ...
:laugh:

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: redbox
Interesting apoppin. They don't say however, what it will be on. FFXI was on PS2 about 5 years before it was on 360, but was released on the PC along with the North America release of the PS2.

thank-you

and it is not *confirmed* absolutely that FFXIII will not be a PS3 exclusive

--but it is *shocking* to even consider it happening ... if you had told me - 3 years ago - that Sony would lose it's "clout" with certain well-established franchises - that screamed "sony exclusive" - i would have said you were nuts

times ARE a'changin'

ALL of my links are so *recent* as to be NEW ... mostly this month !

stay tuned ... this is STILL "Breaking News"
--and will be ... imo ... for quite awhile

who'd have thought?

I just don't know what their definition of exclusive is. My understanding is that exclusive means ONLY on the PS3. If thats the case FFXI wasn't even exclusive to PS2 as it launched on both the PS2 and the PC once it arrived here in the states. I haven't even looked at what type of game FFXIII is going to be. If it's a mmorpg like FFXI is then I would wager that the non exclusive side is it being launched on PC as well as the PS3.

 

[apoppin]

*exclusive* always meant only for that particular console platform ...
--in the [fairly distant] past ... the PS1/2 games NEVER came to their competitors ... although the PC was always a "maybe" as it was perceived as "not competing" with the consoles' game sales

later, there were "time-limited exclusives" ... after a period of usually some months, the competitor would get the same game

NOW ... with Sony's "clout" lessened - the Devs are saying they *need* to release at the same time to "assure" themselves a profit
--and if you *need* to play Devil May Cry or GTA-IV, you can be *assured* they are ALSO coming to the x360 ...
... lessening any "need" to buy that $600 PS3

 

[Jules]

done.|

 

[apoppin]

well ... damn ...

agreed .... that IS what i said
:Q

and it is still "exclusive" if it is for the same "family" of consoles [Wii/DS or PS3/PSP] although you will [likely] never see a game released for the PS3 and the PS2 at the same time ... --the PC has never been viewed as direct competition for the console

.... at least ... not yet

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: apoppin
well ... damn ...

agreed .... that IS what i said
:Q

and it is still "exclusive" if it is for the same "family" of consoles [Wii/DS or PS3/PSP] although you will [likely] never see a game released for the PS3 and the PS2 at the same time ... --the PC has never been viewed as direct competition for the console

.... at least ... not yet

Not till they beat console game sales.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Does GoW even run on the x360 at 1080p? ... i Know there is NO AA
[it's jaggie heaven] ... PC can manage much higher resolutions ... with 16XAA

Not to be coy, but this is the difference between PC gamers and console gamers. Console gamers don't care about resolution - they take what they get and play the game. PC gamers (well, the ones who post on message boards) are like Mac users in their inferiority complex about how they play games at higher resolutions, with more AA, etc.

Though GoW looks like a "jaggie heaven" - to my eyes, on both a 47" HDTV and a 52" HDTV, it looks pretty damn good. Gets choppy in some cutscenes, but otherwise it looks and plays great. I'm sure you'll like it when it goes to PC in late 2008 .

yes, we *expect* DX10 games in 08 ... that IS next year ... crysis looks like crud in comparison

What good/great DX10 games are coming in early/mid 2008? Honestly, do you think there will be more than 1 or 2 AAA DX10 titles by mid 2008? Or even 5 of them by late 2008?

Originally posted by: apoppin
and glad you agree - the 360 and PS3 AREN'T doing well


the "next gen" of consoles?
:roll:

Not sure why you're so happy that consoles are struggling right now. Especially considering they're the driving force of the gaming industry.

You're right, Sony shot too far with the PS3 in terms of the Cell (overhyped/overrated) and BluRay (made the console WAY too expensive at launch, but since consoles have a 5 year lifecycle, it could very well sell like hotcakes in 2008-2010, especially if/when BluRay wins the next gen format war, and we have BluRay movies that come out with the superior video and especially audio quality and special features we were guaranteed).

------

If the history of consoles has told us anything, it is that, with few exceptions, consoles don't sell well until they hit very specific pricepoints. If the Xbox360 premium comes with one good game (say Gears of War), 1 or 2 wireless controllers for $299, it will move systems. When Halo 3 comes out, it will move systems.

The PS3 is in a bit of a pickle because for $500-600, it doesn't justify its price unless you REALLY dig BluRay movies.

-----

IMO it comes down to games, and every generation development times increase. Unreal Engine 3 has been licensed to make something like 30+ games which are in development. How many have been released? Gears of War is one. I can't think of any others.

Give this generation another couple of years before the really good titles come out and the consoles drop in price another notch.

---------


And as for MS losing money on Xboxes apoppin, how about you look at the whole picture. In addition to making money back on game sales (and game:system ratios don't pick up until later in the console's life), Microsoft has the very profitable Xbox Live service that is rounding into shape.

 

[apoppin]

at least Sony knows how to throw a party
[from TODAY's date]

WTF are they thinking?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a...article_id=451414&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Electronics giant Sony has sparked a major row over animal cruelty and the ethics of the computer industry by using a freshly slaughtered goat to promote a violent video game.

The corpse of the decapitated animal was the centrepiece of a party to celebrate the launch of the God Of War II game for the company?s PlayStation 2 console.

Guests at the event were even invited to reach inside the goat?s still-warm carcass to eat offal from its stomach.

Sickening images of the party have appeared in the company?s official PlayStation magazine ? but after being contacted by The Mail on Sunday, Sony issued an apology for the gruesome stunt and promised to recall the entire print run.

Critics condemned the entertainment giant, which produces scores of Hollywood blockbusters each year, for its "blood lust" and said the grotesque "sacrifice" highlighted increasing concerns over the content of video games and the lengths to which the industry will go to exploit youngsters.

At the event, guests competed to see who could eat the most offal ? procured elsewhere and intended to resemble the goat?s intestines ? from its stomach.

They also threw knives at targets and pulled live snakes from a pit with their bare hands.

Topless girls added to the louche atmosphere by dipping grapes into guests? mouths, while a male model portraying Kratos, the game?s warrior hero, handed out garlands.

The International Fund for Animal Welfare said it was "outrageous" that the animal?s death had been used "to sell a few computer games".

A spokesman said: "We are always opposed to any senseless killing of an animal and this sounds like a gruesome death. We condemn Sony?s actions. It is stupid and completely unjustified."

The party features across two pages of the latest edition of the company?s PlayStation magazine, which was due to hit newsstands on Tuesday but has already been sent to subscribers.

We have reproduced the spread ? headlined Sony?s Greek Orgy ? here, but have pixellated the image to spare readers the sight of the goat?s decapitated head hanging by a thread of tissue from its corpse, with blood dripping to the floor.

But the magazine?s readers were shown the picture in its full horror.

The article, based on a Sony Press release, shows more vivid pictures from the event under headlines such as Topless Girls! and Flesh Eating?

It asks readers how far they would go to get hold of Sony?s next-generation console, the PlayStation 3.

"How about eating still warm intestines uncoiled from the carcass of a freshly slaughtered goat? At the party to celebrate God Of War II?s European release, members of the Press were invited to do just that . . ."
[more edited out]

Sony's is getting Stupid

EDIT:

Not sure why you're so happy that consoles are struggling right now. Especially considering they're the driving force of the gaming industry.

i did NOT say i was "happy" - or unhappy ... just 'glad' someone *agreed* with a particular point i made
--you read "into" what you want to get from my posts, jiffylube1024
:thumbsdown:

and

Give this generation another couple of years before the really good titles come out and the consoles drop in price another notch.

--in a couple of years the PS3 is gonna look like a PS1 looks next to a cutting-edge PC game --right now

who will care in a couple of years?


late '08 brings a *flood* of DX10 titles ...
... and in 18 months most rigs will be Quad core

 

[Jules]

done.|

 

[jiffylube1024]

Sounds like a hell of a party, apoppin!

Sony's party sounds like it was in bad taste, but this kind of a reaction is a joke. Millions of animals are slaughtered for our food every day, yet one visiblely decapitated goat is cruelty to animals??? Are you f***ing kidding me? People are out of touch with reality, if a slaughtered goat is animal cruelty, but millions of goats, cows, chickens and other animals are acceptable.

To call killing one goat which they fed to/paraded at a party "senseless" - give me a break. There's bigger problems in the world than getting your panties in a bunch over this.

But whatever, anything that makes Sony or MS look bad, right? You're turning into one of those message board trolls, like our good pal Rollo, who digs up dirt on the other guy only, to prove just how bad they are.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: apoppin


late '08 brings a *flood* of DX10 titles ...
... and in 18 months most rigs will be Quad core

Nevermind. That comment just made me be finshed with this thread.