Forget John Romero - XBox360 and PS3 ARE *Doomed*

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ZimZum

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Matt2
Well, just enjoyed a gaming marathon on my loyal Xbox360.

Should have gone to class, but I guess a 4-1 record in MLB2k7 on Xbox Live isnt bad.

enjoy it while it still looks and runs good

:thumbsup:

That's right my friend, getting my money's worth!

While I was playing MLB2K7, it got me thinking, games like this are the reason why consoles will never die.

Do you know how huge sports games are on consoles? I bet Madden 07 has sold more copies than STALKER, FEAR, Supreme Commander and Doom3 combined. Probably more .

I just dont see myself throwing a high and tight cut fastball with mouse. Or juking people out of their shoes with a keyboard.

dude ... i *have* a controller for my PC ... i couldn't *imagine* playing Resident Evil-4 with a KB [--no mouse ]
:shocked:

and a joystick for flight sims
:roll:

and a Nostromo N52 for everything else the KB + Mouse can't handle
:beer:

top that with your old xbox
:lips:

As i said, *enjoy* it now ...

i say that about everything



soon as i get dinner started ... i'm off to enjoy MY games

So when you have friends over that want to play you in Madden, do they all huddle around your PC and take turns playing the computer? Same thing with racing games or fighting games or any game that lends itself to Live multiplayer. They simply play better on a console in front of the Large TV on a couch. And let me know where I can buy a wireless PC game controller as good as the 360's. I have yet to come across ANY wireless PC gamepad that doesnt suck.

strangely ... no one defends the PS3 ...
:Q

i never needed a wireless PC game controller ... no reason they should suck whatsoever
. . . . do you really want me to find one for you


actually ... the PC DOES also output to HDTV - pick as Big a screen as you want
... and i used to have a 27" monitor we all "huddled around" ... many years ago
:roll:

when the PC absolutely *blows away* the 360 - next year - the xbox will even have less going for it ... the fact of the matter is xbox360 is *losing ground* and even MS will have to address the *billions* of dollars they are bleeding away on this "investment"

If your talking gfx then no. Your about 2-3 years off man. PC still doesn't have anything that beats GoW. Only thing that might look a bit better is Crysis and I am sure 360 can handle it just fine but even it ain't out yet. I'd say your looking at sometime in 2009 before PC gfx gets to the point to where it makes Xbox 360 look like the original Xbox. Yeah you will see screenshots of games coming that might blow it away but we are talking by the time the game is released.

 

[josh6079]

PC still doesn't have anything that beats GoW.

LoL!!!!

Go find any PC game that can run higher than 0xAA or 2xAA and you've already found a better looking game.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: josh6079

PC still doesn't have anything that beats GoW.

LoL!!!!

Go find any PC game that can run higher than 0xAA or 2xAA and you've already found a better looking game.

yeah right :roll:

 

[jiffylube1024]

First and formost, the Xbox360 and PS3 aren't hitting sales figures that the Xbox and PS2 did in the same amount of time for three main reasons:

1. Too expensive for the layman consumer
2. Insufficient AAA titles at this time [they're still in development]
3. Consumer confusion of which horse to back, compounded exponentially by point #1

Last generation was the generation where almost every console gamer owned two, sometimes three systems. That's acceptable when you lay out $300-400 for a pair of systems. But, with accessories, you're pushing close to a grand to pick up an Xbox360 and PS3, both which have limited libraries right now and maybe only one truly killer app between them [Gears of War].

But people will hop onboard the console bandwagon when the good games come out. Halo 3 is going to push millions and millions of systems. Metal Gear Solid 4 will probably do the same.

The floodgates of Japanese developers haven't opened this generation yet: companies like Konami, Capcom and Square haven't come close to releasing their big guns yet, and are releasing more simple games right now (such as Lost Planet and Dead Rising) while they get more familiar with next gen hardware.

---------

To point to the failure of the Xbox360 in Japan is a pretty late and irrelevant criticism. Xbox survived without any margin of success in Japan. The RPG Blue Dragon basically doubled Xbox360 system sales in Japan (I think going from 50,000 to ~100,000 systems), showing that if Japanese developed RPG's come out for the Xbox360, it could very well have a late explosion in sales.
-----

Lastly, John Romero is a fool, and has no idea what consumers want. Didn't he say consumers want and need Daikatana? I believe John Carmack praised the Xbox360 as a platform, and said he would develop his next game for one of the console systems (as well as PC).

 

[apoppin]

dp

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: josh6079

you guys said the *same thing* when i suggested AMD was going down the tubes ... and that r600 would be a turkey
... six months ago

I don't remember that being your tone 6 months ago. In fact, the following was said by you almost exactly 6 months ago: Click

Originally posted by: apoppin
Hahaha, but that's not what you said. You said that soon Nvidia will be the "only player" in the high-end graphics industry and 'tards like Gstanfor and Crusader seem to think that ATI are not going to be making graphics cards at all anymore.

This just isn't true, read the damn article. The Radeon product family (you know, graphics cards?) is going nowhere.

Don't lose too much sleep over the fact that ATI will continue doing what they've done for years, but from now on with the resources of AMD at their disposal and drawing on their strong leadership and expertise.

Originally posted by: apoppin
no sense whatsoever

you get Ati.amd.com

AMD+ATi = the New AMD

pretty clear

a new AMD with a high powered graphics division to take on intel . . . and nvidia

ATi as a separate company or as a division of AMD will compete better in CPUs, GPUS and chipsets.

Originally posted by: apoppin
you still don't get it

AMD bought ATI for its strengths . . . AMD is going into the gfx business - big time . . . integrated and high end

it helps to have the performance crown if you are in the GFX business as AMD is well aware . . .
... and as you seem so UNaware - in contrast.

No where in those quotes from 6 months ago did I get the hint that you were saying, "AMD was going down the tubes ... and that r600 would be a turkey."

*everyone else* sure thought so

and no one on earth can take a person's quotes SO far OUT of context as you can, Josh
:thumbsdown:
-i expressed *hope* that the acquisition was to be good for both companies ... you do know what "hope" is?
:roll:

i KNOW that i was saying it "failed" and that ATi was GONE ... swallowed up ... months ago

6 months ago ... i was expressing my concern ... that AMD had HW *issues* and i was being chided for saying they had 13 respins and no product

When the FIRST r600 hard launch was canceled, i was *certain* it was FUD and i said so *very loudly* ... that r600 was a "performance FAILURE" ... that's *why* AMD was waiting for "the family" ... because the flagship was a flop

====================

Originally posted by: Sniper82

If your talking gfx then no. Your about 2-3 years off man. PC still doesn't have anything that beats GoW. Only thing that might look a bit better is Crysis and I am sure 360 can handle it just fine but even it ain't out yet. I'd say your looking at sometime in 2009 before PC gfx gets to the point to where it makes Xbox 360 look like the original Xbox. Yeah you will see screenshots of games coming that might blow it away but we are talking by the time the game is released.

absolute nonsense ... xbox 360 can only manage A LOWER refresh rate ... and it has ZERO - AA/AF

otoh, Oblivion with all it's texture mods can look like GoW .... but at *much higher* resolution

and just NEXT year ... the PS3 is gonna look like "crap" - next to DX10 games ...
that isn't even HALF it's cycle

the PS3 IS a turkey

finally jiffylube1024 - really WHO cares what John Romero says ...

however this has more *way beyond him* ... so many experts happen to agree that the next gen MS and Sony console are not only a disappointment, but a real drain on their makers ... one that they may not care to further support

Even MS has limits ... so far they have LOST over 5 BILLION dollars on xbox platform

and John Carmack DID praise the xbox360 as *easy* to port for and would be a nice *cash cow* for id's brainless games

 

[apoppin]

i started looking back at my archived threads over 3 months ago ... i was *very consistent* and pretty much an ATi fan at the time ... back in Early Fall '06

SIX months ago ... there wasn't much actually said on out forums on r600 ... in late October, i posted an *ideal scenario*
The REAL Reason ATI WANTED to be acquired by AMD
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1951207&enterthread=y&arctab=y

We had a G80 launch imminent and everything looked "normal" with the acquisition ... there was "hope" for the soon-to-be-released r600

well by then i was saying ATI was gone - in January
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1988383&enterthread=y&arctab=y

here i suggest getting the GTX instead of waiting:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1986396&enterthread=y&arctab=y

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1960231&enterthread=y&arctab=y
in Mid-November, my attitude was changing ... theInq reported: << Expect this baby to be in stores during Q1'07, or around January 30th. . . .>>
i replied: <<January 30th! HIGHly doubtful
let me guess .. Feb or March ... DAAMit will lay low till then>>

so no You are right - not 6 months Josh .... letsee mid-November to late-April is 5-1/2 months

:roll:

close enough


so ... Cliffs notes

i was an ati fan thru the Summer of 06 ... till the acquisiton which i had a LOT of *hope* for

by November, it was evident to me that something was "wrong" ... by January i was recommending nvidia and saying AMD was in trouble ... since the cancelled launch, i have ben saying 'where's the beef?' and AMD is LOST

now i am saying 'where's the beef?' with Sony's console

hopefully they will be able to compete with MS ... i know it means a lot to you consolers


ANYway ... back on Topic ...
i haven't played it ... i can only go by what i read and see ...
GoW would be barely "average" on the PC ... as a PC game, wouldn't it

even though STALKER is "inferior" graphically - i understand it's *gameplay* blows GoW iinto the toilet

much like Halo was mediocre and the Halo2 port looks to be 'average' ...

and who Knows what MS will foist on you with Halo3 ... except you can expect to pay $79 for it
:roll:

 

[Matt2]

mmmmmmm....

Halo 3 is going to be freakin awesome.

 

[apoppin]

Halo was supposed to be freakin awesome
--and *what happened* with halo2?


ppppppp....

i don't see - in your 'enthusiasm' for consoles - that you would totally *ignore* the dozens of links i posted and the "real" analysts
forget my silly opinion

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Halo was supposed to be freakin awesome
--and *what happened* with halo2?


ppppppp....

i don't see - in your 'enthusiasm' for consoles - that you would totally *ignore* the dozens of links i posted and the "real" analysts
forget my silly opinion

It's not that I didnt read your links or dont respect your opinions, it's just that I and millions upon millions of others disagree.

I dont see what was so bad about Halo? I loved Halo. It might have sucked on the PC, just as Halo 2 will, but they're already classics in the xbox community.

Halo with 8 drunk players via system link on 2 TVs playing Wizard with no shields and shotguns only is an experience you will never know poppy.

It's this local multiplayer phenomenon that exclusive PC gamers will NEVER understand. Multiplayer on PC is fun, but playing with people you have never seen or met before who are inevitably douche bags just can't stack up.

The most fun I have ever had playing any kind of video games are the times when my friends and I used to play Halo and playing 16 full seasons of Madden '05 franchise with 3 of my friends on the same team.

That level of gameplay can never be matched by the PC because let's face it, it's just not as fun when you play by yourself.

 

[apoppin]

i ... and ... hundreds of MILLIONS of other gamers LOVED arcades and arcade gameplay on the standalone machines

you know what happened to arcades

nostalgia - UNFORTUNATELY - doesn't sell the PS3
-as Sony is learning the very hard way

and i am SO SORRY but you DO get that *same* kind of "shared" experience at LAN parties and with CoOP
... on the most versatile PC

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i ... and ... hundreds of MILLIONS of other gamers LOVED arcades and arcade gameplay on the standalone machines

you know what happened to arcades

nostalgia - UNFORTUNATELY - doesn't sell the PS3
-as Sony is learning the very hard way

and i am SO SORRY but you DO get that *same* kind of "shared" experience at LAN parties and with CoOP
... on the most versatile PC

Yeah but what percentage of PC gamers actually go to Lan Parties?

not very many I am assuming. I've never been. I would find it extremely bothersome to only get the experience once in a while and have to haul my PC in the car just to get that experience.

Not when I can just go to my friend's house and pick up the controller and have a blast.

 

[colonel]

Romero is a lazy as#, just think about Daikatana and how he blew it

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: apoppin
i ... and ... hundreds of MILLIONS of other gamers LOVED arcades and arcade gameplay on the standalone machines

you know what happened to arcades

nostalgia - UNFORTUNATELY - doesn't sell the PS3
-as Sony is learning the very hard way

and i am SO SORRY but you DO get that *same* kind of "shared" experience at LAN parties and with CoOP
... on the most versatile PC

Yeah but what percentage of PC gamers actually go to Lan Parties?

not very many I am assuming. I've never been. I would find it extremely bothersome to only get the experience once in a while and have to haul my PC in the car just to get that experience.

Not when I can just go to my friend's house and pick up the controller and have a blast.

what percentage? the percentage of people who like PC games and want to play at LAN parties and would rather not play on a console ... or who don't care for sports games --but might love CoOp with Serious Sam

those who are really into competition have their PCs streamlined for easy pickup and go ... with the advent of the LCD it is not such a big deal for a geek to move his PC by himself
:roll:



and *forget Romero*

so many OTHER analysts agree ... the console is looking *less* attractive .... even to devs like EA that used depend on Sony are scaling back earnings

and those like RockStar that are flipping Sony the Bird by releasing GTA-IV on 360 at the *same* time while saying PS3 isn't successful enough to develop solely for it

 

[Sniper82]

I think this thread is going nowhere and should let drop.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: Sniper82
I think this thread is going nowhere and should let drop.

Agreed. Dude hes in his own little world.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MyStupidMouth
lol

is that is?


the best you can do?
--what a [lame] response
[but thanks for the 'bump' ]

you guys said the *same thing* when i suggested AMD was going down the tubes ... and that r600 would be a turkey
... six months ago
:roll:

im just laughing at you.

 

[manimal]

John Romero? isnt he the guy who wrote all those really bad horror movies-that sit in my dvd collection. What does he know.....sheesh, its not like he stayed at a holiday inn express..


I feel ashamed I actually read most of this thread..

 

[josh6079]

-i expressed *hope* that the acquisition was to be good for both companies ... you do know what "hope" is?
:roll:

How were you expressing hope while at the same time saying that AMD was "going down the tubes... and that r600 would be a turkey?"

Six months ago, if your claim was, "AMD [is] going down the tubes ... and that r600 would be a turkey", that wouldn't be a preaching of hope but rather an analysis. If you would have been preaching hope, you wouldn't have said that "AMD [is] going down the tubes... and that r600 would be a turkey."

 

[imported_dongle]

Originally posted by: manimal
John Romero? isnt he the guy who wrote all those really bad horror movies-that sit in my dvd collection. What does he know.....sheesh, its not like he stayed at a holiday inn express..


I feel ashamed I actually read most of this thread..

You're thinking of George Romero. John Romero is famous for working at id during their heyday when they made games that lived up to the engines...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: josh6079

-i expressed *hope* that the acquisition was to be good for both companies ... you do know what "hope" is?
:roll:

How were you expressing hope while at the same time saying that AMD was "going down the tubes... and that r600 would be a turkey?"

Six months ago, if your claim was, "AMD [is] going down the tubes ... and that r600 would be a turkey", that wouldn't be a preaching of hope but rather an analysis. If you would have been preaching hope, you wouldn't have said that "AMD [is] going down the tubes... and that r600 would be a turkey."

i dunno Josh ... you'd actually have to READ those threads to comprehend what i was saying
-not just fixiate on little out-of-context snippets of what i said
:thumbsdown:

i Had {read past tense} "hoped" for AMD-ATi's merger success... over 6 months ago ... that particular thread was my last "hopeful" thread

THEN - about 6 months ago, my opinion began to change
--AMD's multiple delays of their r600 launch coupled with the huge number of unconfirmed respins and the confused and often contradictory marketing BS coming out of AMD all added up to a botched launch and i said so here for all to read

--at the time of the cancellation of the first launch, my PoV became fixed.

if you can't figure it out it is not my problem ... i stand by what i posted about AMD.
... as IF it has ANYTHING to do with what JR says
:roll:

of course every time i post links and facts and what "experts" say ... we get *this* as a response:

Originally posted by: Sniper82
I think this thread is going nowhere and should let drop.

then ... please ... stop posting in it ... you are giving undue attention to it
... nine pages ... sheesh

i can't believe anyone claimed to have read "most of the thread" and doesn't even have a clue who John Romero was ... and probably no clue about PCs either
:lips:

---or "pc wannabe" consoles future
like MOST of you who believe nothing changes
:sun: ... :moon:

i'm glad you 'console guys' can laugh ... it appears to be a very nervous laugh
:Q

 

[Jules]

lol

 

[apoppin]

very nervous

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: apoppin
very nervous

I dont even own a console so you might wanna try taking your head outta your anus.

 

[apoppin]

i'd recommend the same for you

-except the major operation would kill you
:Q

have you EVER owned a console?

and *who* said you did ... now?