Forget it, I don't have time for this crap

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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: lokiju
The price really isn't that out of line from what I've seen for special breed dogs.

I was looking at a dachshund awhile back from a breeder that was around that same price.

Maybe, for a show quality dog with breeding rights from AKC Champion Conformation parents. And a Golden Retriever isn't a special breed.

Based on the popularity and number of quality breeders, that price is ridiculous for a dachshund.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
$1500 is way too much to spend for a dog IMHO. Anyone charging that much for a dog is looking to make a PROFIT on their litter. This is sickening to me honestly. It basically goes to show that that breeder is a puppy mill, and should NOT be supported. Take my story for example - when I got my golden some 10 years ago, she cost us I think $300, AKC litter (not registered, but registrable - we never did though, no need). She was from hunting stock, and was bred for the purpose of hunting. The owner of the mom specifically bread because he wanted one or two for himself for the next generation of his hunting dogs - to personally use for hunting, NOT for breeding. $300 is just about enough to cover expenses per puppy in a litter before "sale". Once you get past that, you're talking pure profit per dog. No one should be in the business of breeding dogs just to sell - you do it for utility or to continue a line (as my sister-in-law does with her germans, she has a line of dogs for show). Anyway, enough of my puppy mill rant.

First, ALL dogs shed, doesn't matter the breed. The question is how much. Dogs like poodles and such shed very little. Now if you're worried about allergies and not just getting dog hair everywhere, well a "non-shedding" dog is pointless, because it's the dander that causes allergies, not the hair itself. Certain dogs (again like poodles) are considered more hypoallergenic. Keep that in mind.

Anyhow, I've touched on some things that may or may not matter to you. Not sure if my 2 cents will make a difference. My main concern with any potential dog owner is the amount of time that will be invested in the dog. That's the #1 issue with most dogs that ends up making owners hate their dogs. If you're not prepared to spend time with your dog (walking, playing ball, teaching obedience, general "loving up" - rub the belly for hours on end and whatnot), then you're going to end up with a bored dog that misbehaves. And that's the worst thing for all parties involved.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: NFS4
**Thanks to those that were helpful, but I don't need rescue dogs shoved down my throat**

mkay...then pay to play. $1500 is not a lot of money for a dog from a REAL breeder; seems even low...my parents were looking at rotties back in the 80's/90's and they were $2500 a pop from a champion bloodline (international shows not at the local fairgrounds) just for a pet quality dog. There was also a 1 - 2 year waiting list.

A real breeder will not breed dogs with flaws, even if it was their prime stud/dame...they will retire them. They also screen the pups for issues and note them...if these issues show themselves they also avoid that cross EVEN if that person is willing to pay to breed.

Keep in mind that 'AKC Registered', 'has papers', 'pedigree', 'champion' really mean nothing.


 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: SunnyD
$1500 is way too much to spend for a dog IMHO. Anyone charging that much for a dog is looking to make a PROFIT on their litter. This is sickening to me honestly. It basically goes to show that that breeder is a puppy mill, and should NOT be supported. Take my story for example - when I got my golden some 10 years ago, she cost us I think $300, AKC litter (not registered, but registrable - we never did though, no need). She was from hunting stock, and was bred for the purpose of hunting. The owner of the mom specifically bread because he wanted one or two for himself for the next generation of his hunting dogs - to personally use for hunting, NOT for breeding. $300 is just about enough to cover expenses per puppy in a litter before "sale". Once you get past that, you're talking pure profit per dog. No one should be in the business of breeding dogs just to sell - you do it for utility or to continue a line (as my sister-in-law does with her germans, she has a line of dogs for show). Anyway, enough of my puppy mill rant.

First, ALL dogs shed, doesn't matter the breed. The question is how much. Dogs like poodles and such shed very little. Now if you're worried about allergies and not just getting dog hair everywhere, well a "non-shedding" dog is pointless, because it's the dander that causes allergies, not the hair itself. Certain dogs (again like poodles) are considered more hypoallergenic. Keep that in mind.

Anyhow, I've touched on some things that may or may not matter to you. Not sure if my 2 cents will make a difference. My main concern with any potential dog owner is the amount of time that will be invested in the dog. That's the #1 issue with most dogs that ends up making owners hate their dogs. If you're not prepared to spend time with your dog (walking, playing ball, teaching obedience, general "loving up" - rub the belly for hours on end and whatnot), then you're going to end up with a bored dog that misbehaves. And that's the worst thing for all parties involved.

not true. A responsible breeder doing this for their livlihood and to promote their line could not afford to sell pet store priced dogs. There are alot of costs they should incur if doing it the right way as well as limiting number of litters...

Your opinion on 'utility' and the other items is HIGHLY biased to your own situation. Most buy dogs for companionship not for working/utility.

Also assuming normal 'retail' at $300 in costs, the dog should sell for no less than $900. Being a dog is a limited production item standard pricing is a bargain.

All that said any breeder is not in the business for charity, there is nothing wrong with profit.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: SunnyD
$1500 is way too much to spend for a dog IMHO. Anyone charging that much for a dog is looking to make a PROFIT on their litter. This is sickening to me honestly. It basically goes to show that that breeder is a puppy mill, and should NOT be supported. Take my story for example - when I got my golden some 10 years ago, she cost us I think $300, AKC litter (not registered, but registrable - we never did though, no need). She was from hunting stock, and was bred for the purpose of hunting. The owner of the mom specifically bread because he wanted one or two for himself for the next generation of his hunting dogs - to personally use for hunting, NOT for breeding. $300 is just about enough to cover expenses per puppy in a litter before "sale". Once you get past that, you're talking pure profit per dog. No one should be in the business of breeding dogs just to sell - you do it for utility or to continue a line (as my sister-in-law does with her germans, she has a line of dogs for show). Anyway, enough of my puppy mill rant.

First, ALL dogs shed, doesn't matter the breed. The question is how much. Dogs like poodles and such shed very little. Now if you're worried about allergies and not just getting dog hair everywhere, well a "non-shedding" dog is pointless, because it's the dander that causes allergies, not the hair itself. Certain dogs (again like poodles) are considered more hypoallergenic. Keep that in mind.

Anyhow, I've touched on some things that may or may not matter to you. Not sure if my 2 cents will make a difference. My main concern with any potential dog owner is the amount of time that will be invested in the dog. That's the #1 issue with most dogs that ends up making owners hate their dogs. If you're not prepared to spend time with your dog (walking, playing ball, teaching obedience, general "loving up" - rub the belly for hours on end and whatnot), then you're going to end up with a bored dog that misbehaves. And that's the worst thing for all parties involved.

not true. A responsible breeder doing this for their livlihood and to promote their line could not afford to sell pet store priced dogs. There are alot of costs they should incur if doing it the right way as well as limiting number of litters...

Your opinion on 'utility' and the other items is HIGHLY biased to your own situation. Most buy dogs for companionship not for working/utility.

Also assuming normal 'retail' at $300 in costs, the dog should sell for no less than $900. Being a dog is a limited production item standard pricing is a bargain.

All that said any breeder is not in the business for charity, there is nothing wrong with profit.

My point was any breeder worth a shit WON'T be breeding for a profit. Breeders that are seeking to breed for profit are generally looking to rip off people and don't give a shit about their dogs.

Not to mention you obviously haven't figured out that the #1 "utility" for a pet is companionship. I was alluding to most mill breeders thinking the utility of a pet is simply to print cash.

Thanks for reading.
 

oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
7,806
3
81
Originally posted by: SunnyD
My point was any breeder worth a shit WON'T be breeding for a profit. Breeders that are seeking to breed for profit are generally looking to rip off people and don't give a shit about their dogs.

Not to mention you obviously haven't figured out that the #1 "utility" for a pet is companionship. I was alluding to most mill breeders thinking the utility of a pet is simply to print cash.

Thanks for reading.

Yea, the best of any profession shouldn't get paid for their work, fuck em! They should just do it for the passion and the love they have for what they do. :disgust:
 

DukeN

Golden Member
Dec 12, 1999
1,422
0
76
Get one from a shelter and put the $1500 towards charity or some other good cause (like some new toys for your PC :) )
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
The sad thing the OP stated in his first post:

From what I understand, Havanese dogs aren't an extremely popular breed, so it's not something that you could just pickup from a rescue shelter or a pound I would assume?

And when shown that Havanese dogs are available thru rescue, he doesn't want Havanese rescue dogs shoved down his throat. Plus, if he can't afford $1500 to purchase a dog, where is he going to come up with the money for the vet care and everything else for the dog. I've found the initially cost of a dog is nothing compared to the expense towards the dog's lifespan.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: oogabooga
Originally posted by: SunnyD
My point was any breeder worth a shit WON'T be breeding for a profit. Breeders that are seeking to breed for profit are generally looking to rip off people and don't give a shit about their dogs.

Not to mention you obviously haven't figured out that the #1 "utility" for a pet is companionship. I was alluding to most mill breeders thinking the utility of a pet is simply to print cash.

Thanks for reading.

Yea, the best of any profession shouldn't get paid for their work, fuck em! They should just do it for the passion and the love they have for what they do. :disgust:

When it comes to breeding animals... yeah. The number of irresponsible breeders and then the number of irresponsible owners only cause to geometrically compound the issue. There's a reason why shelters have to turn away and/or destroy so many animals every year. Not trying to sway NFS4 here since he's already made up his mind on the whole rescue thing, but seriously. People take pets for granted and then think they're disposable at the drop of a hat. These breeders need to be just as responsible. (And I'm not talking about the best of the breeding profession here, I'm talking about the worst of them, like the idiot that parks out at the corner of the road with crates of puppies every day trying to sell them)
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: oogabooga
Originally posted by: SunnyD
My point was any breeder worth a shit WON'T be breeding for a profit. Breeders that are seeking to breed for profit are generally looking to rip off people and don't give a shit about their dogs.

Not to mention you obviously haven't figured out that the #1 "utility" for a pet is companionship. I was alluding to most mill breeders thinking the utility of a pet is simply to print cash.

Thanks for reading.

Yea, the best of any profession shouldn't get paid for their work, fuck em! They should just do it for the passion and the love they have for what they do. :disgust:

When it comes to breeding animals... yeah. The number of irresponsible breeders and then the number of irresponsible owners only cause to geometrically compound the issue. There's a reason why shelters have to turn away and/or destroy so many animals every year. Not trying to sway NFS4 here since he's already made up his mind on the whole rescue thing, but seriously. People take pets for granted and then think they're disposable at the drop of a hat. These breeders need to be just as responsible. (And I'm not talking about the best of the breeding profession here, I'm talking about the worst of them, like the idiot that parks out at the corner of the road with crates of puppies every day trying to sell them)

They are.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,992
10,471
126
Dogs can be quite expensive. I have no idea about that particular breed, but $1,500 is well within what I'd expect to pay for a pure breed. It looks like you're after a small dog. If you were interested in something bigger, I'd suggest a greyhound. I don't like dogs, but the greyhounds I've seen have been very agreeable. You need the space of course so they can do their thing, but they're very nice dogs.

Edit:
Hell, I didn't know this topic was so old. I can't be arsed to read it, so my recommendation may or may not make sense :^/
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: alkemyst
OH FUCK ME!

I said it numerous times in this thread, we are looking for a little puppy. None of these rescues fit that description.

I've already been to that site:

http://www.havaneserescue.com/...=blog&id=36&Itemid=159

I don't want a "worn in" dog. We want a puppy.

Yes, b/c a 9 month old puppy is "worn in". :disgust:

He's made up his mind, get off his back about it. Just like adopted kids, some people don't want to deal with the baggage. Unfortunately what they don't realize is that their own pets/kids develop baggage of their own that has to be dealt with.

NFS4 - my suggestion is to look for a breeder within a couple hundred miles that doesn't pound out litter after litter. With a pure companion breed like a Havanese it will be a lot harder to find, but it's not impossible.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: alkemyst
OH FUCK ME!

I said it numerous times in this thread, we are looking for a little puppy. None of these rescues fit that description.

I've already been to that site:

http://www.havaneserescue.com/...=blog&id=36&Itemid=159

I don't want a "worn in" dog. We want a puppy.

Yes, b/c a 9 month old puppy is "worn in". :disgust:

He's made up his mind, get off his back about it. Just like adopted kids, some people don't want to deal with the baggage. Unfortunately what they don't realize is that their own pets/kids develop baggage of their own that has to be dealt with.

NFS4 - my suggestion is to look for a breeder within a couple hundred miles that doesn't pound out litter after litter. With a pure companion breed like a Havanese it will be a lot harder to find, but it's not impossible.

Then he shouldn't have brought it up in his OP.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: alkemyst
OH FUCK ME!

I said it numerous times in this thread, we are looking for a little puppy. None of these rescues fit that description.

I've already been to that site:

http://www.havaneserescue.com/...=blog&id=36&Itemid=159

I don't want a "worn in" dog. We want a puppy.

Yes, b/c a 9 month old puppy is "worn in". :disgust:

A 9 month old dog that is already in the process of adoption 8-9 hours away from me? And didn't I say that we wanted a puppy that I could potty train ourselves?

I swear, you people are so FORCEFUL in pushing your agenda. What is it with you guys?

The problem with many dog owners is that they just pick any old dog and just throw themselves into it only to find themselves not wanting/liking the dog and getting rid of it.

My wife and I have done the research, found a dog breed that we like, and are trying to narrow things down to fit our needs. We feel that getting a puppy as young as possible is the best course of action for us and OUR needs.

I've said this numerous times, yet people just don't listen. That is what's so DAMN frustrating.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
10 pounds isn't a dog, it's a speed bump with hair. Get ready to spend a lot of time accidentally punting that dog down stairs and through windows.

Also, have you considered a rescue dog?
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: alkemyst
OH FUCK ME!

I said it numerous times in this thread, we are looking for a little puppy. None of these rescues fit that description.

I've already been to that site:

http://www.havaneserescue.com/...=blog&id=36&Itemid=159

I don't want a "worn in" dog. We want a puppy.

Yes, b/c a 9 month old puppy is "worn in". :disgust:

He's made up his mind, get off his back about it. Just like adopted kids, some people don't want to deal with the baggage. Unfortunately what they don't realize is that their own pets/kids develop baggage of their own that has to be dealt with.

NFS4 - my suggestion is to look for a breeder within a couple hundred miles that doesn't pound out litter after litter. With a pure companion breed like a Havanese it will be a lot harder to find, but it's not impossible.

Then he shouldn't have brought it up in his OP.

None of the rescues have met our criteria -- PERIOD. Move on.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
10 pounds isn't a dog, it's a speed bump with hair. Get ready to spend a lot of time accidentally punting that dog down stairs and through windows.

Also, have you considered a rescue dog?

LOL
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Then he shouldn't have brought it up in his OP.

Apparently he originally didn't. In retrospect, maybe he originally SHOULD have. Funny how it just gets worse when you say you DON'T want something, people tend to push for it more.
 

moparacer

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2003
1,336
0
76
Originally posted by: Descartes
I paid $1500 for my golden retriever after a lot of research. A hobbyist breeder barely breaks even at $1500 a pup, so to me it's worth the investment to support someone with responsible breeding practices.

I only have one anecdotal example, but the $1500 I spent on my dog was one of the best investments I've ever made. Great dog.

Pets as an investment? :confused:

Never invest your money in anything that can DIE on you....
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
10 pounds isn't a dog, it's a speed bump with hair. Get ready to spend a lot of time accidentally punting that dog down stairs and through windows.

I grew up with Toy Poodles. We had a 12-pound toy that lived to be 14. She died when I was about 20 and I balled like a baby when she died. I didn't even cry that much at my own grandmother's funeral. I was so attached to that dog.

My parents currently have two Toy Poodles, one about 8 pounds, and one that is about 14 pounds. They are precious dogs that I would never, EVER think of punting. They're adorable.