Forecasts for Growth Drop, Some Sharply

[JSt0rm]

in fact lets review what we learned from that thread...

After reviewing a few posts on the first page of this, which were made at the end of August (when things were far from rosy) I can only conclude that many people here should never, ever opine on any economic matter again on P&N or elsewhere, if it's of greater consequence than the price of a hamburger they're buying. Talk about out-of-touch.

Ignorance bordering on despicable stupidity are those who look and say "See, TODAY unemployment is fine, so we're dandy!" Get a clue, it's not like unemployment in a recession hits its peak overnight. Evidently, it took a few years for the 24-25% of the great depression's unemployment to kick in. This recession has a real shot at hitting the highest unemployment since the GD.

With Obama backing off his plans to raise taxes we may come out alright.

 

[Red Dawn]

We need to vote out all the assholes in charge and get some people in there that care about fixing our country and not playing petty political games.

To bad none of them are running (those who aren't assholes or care about fixing our economy and not playing political games)

 

[theeedude]

hi pj.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=211673&highlight=economy

lolololololololololol

Good find, the people who were wrong about pretty much everything in the last 30 years are still at it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Expect a horrible 2012. GOP will crash the economy for the election. They will block needed stimulus or force a default, whatever it takes to win. If they do actually win, expect a further horrible 4 years, so realistically, we are looking at 2017 before the US even has a chance of a decent recovery, and that assumes GOP will not have the power to sabotage it.

That's their strategy, anyway. Given their sway over the media & Dems reluctance to get right in their faces, it might work. Repubs perform well as hostage takers.

OTOH, they'll need a presidential candidate who's not an obvious sellout, ideological nitwit, flipflopper, media slut, Jesus freak, or paranoid fruitcake to put up front... & they don't seem to have anybody hiding in the closet to fill the role... nor would repub primary voters recognize that person if they existed...

 

[Craig234]

Increasing taxes on the wealthy isn't going to make things better.

[

Yes, it will.

Unless we cut taxes on the middle class as an offset.

There's an argument for that, but with these deficits, it's pretty questionable.

But giving it to government to spend would be a waste. We are 'stimulating' the economy to the tune of $800 billion more than we did just 3 years ago and the economy is not improving.

That's not the question, as economists - who say we need a BIGGER stimulus - point out. The question is, would things be a lot worse without the stimulus? They say yes.

We also need to drastically reduce government regulation. There is story after story about businesses complaining how OVER regulation is killing them and making it very difficult to do business.

As they have been for thousands of years. Tell me when business WASN'T complaining about that. You're just spewing dogma with that.

We should also kill Obamacare since it is a major problem as businesses are worried about their future costs and are sitting back waiting instead of spending money to grow.

The only way we should do that is by replacing it with Medicare for all, which would be a massive savings for the economy and a relief to business.

 

[Darwin333]

Wow, you have made a lot of progress. The main thing left is you need to support tax increases on the wealthy who have taken such an excessive share counterproductively.

Magic wand waved and its done.

Now what? We still have the exact same problems except our deficit is $70B, hell lets double it to $140B, less.

 

[Darwin333]

[

Yes, it will.

Do you mind showing me the actual math behind that?

There's an argument for that, but with these deficits, it's pretty questionable.

Again, the math please.

That's not the question, as economists - who say we need a BIGGER stimulus - point out. The question is, would things be a lot worse without the stimulus? They say yes.

Would things be worse if we actually had a half decent stimulus package instead of making the rich richer? How do we prevent those bastard republicans from fucking up a new stimulus package this time, like they did last time, since the Dems don't have complete control anymore?

The only way we should do that is by replacing it with Medicare for all, which would be a massive savings for the economy and a relief to business.

Oh please show me the math on this one. If you are suggesting that the current spending on Medicare (which is per-capita more than countries with single payer) can cover the ENTIRE country then I am 100% behind you. No new spending but we all get even a good fricken discount card for our scripts and I would jump for joy. Somehow I doubt that our current spending would cover all of us, as it does in other countries.

 

[Craig234]

Do you mind showing me the actual math behind that?



Again, the math please.

I don't mean to be curt, but I've spent a lot of supplying info on this previously, and I think you can find this info, and I'm going to do other things than an hour pulling things up.

Would things be worse if we actually had a half decent stimulus package instead of making the rich richer? How do we prevent those bastard republicans from fucking up a new stimulus package this time, like they did last time, since the Dems don't have complete control anymore?

They'd be a lot better if it were done right, but you make a good point, I'm talking about 'what should be done', not including the politics making it not feasible.

I think it's better to push for a good plan that just accept a bad compromise.

Oh please show me the math on this one. If you are suggesting that the current spending on Medicare (which is per-capita more than countries with single payer) can cover the ENTIRE country then I am 100% behind you. No new spending but we all get even a good fricken discount card for our scripts and I would jump for joy. Somehow I doubt that our current spending would cover all of us, as it does in other countries.

Medicare covers a *far, far* more expensive demographic than the general population.

The cost of adding everyone else - and the cost of the other countries you mention - is far less per person than Medicare's current demographic.

Of course we can't add all Americans for no new Medicare spending - that's ridiculous - but we can *cut* the spending if you include Medicare and private healthcare spending.

Quite a bit, IMO. When they say 'we spend twice as much' and such, we can cut.

 

[Craig234]

Magic wand waved and its done.

Now what? We still have the exact same problems except our deficit is $70B, hell lets double it to $140B, less.

As I've said before, that increase is an important part of the solution, and far from the whole solution. I was correcting the item I disagree with him on out of a list of points.

One thing I will say though is that the $70B (should be more IMO) goes a lot further than just the money; as you shift wealth from the top 1% to the people, political power shifts also.

At least, it's more likely to. Opportunities for more people increase, growth goes up, etc.

 

[BarneyFife]

To me, it's quite simple. Economy, while not great, was moving along slightly better until gasoline took a huge hike (sound like 2007-2008?) and then confidence (and spending power) of the middle and lower classes fell through the floor. Scared (and broke) people don't spend.

Oh, and decades of giving our jobs freely to other countries and then buying the "cheap" shit they make........(self explanatory).

Amen. We were doing better this year until the unregulated free market wall street criminals wanted to make a killing off oil. The answer is obvious. Pay no taxes if you make over 250k, deregulate wall street and banks, and get rid of abortions and we should be all set.

 

[ProfJohn]

Expect a horrible 2012. GOP will crash the economy for the election. They will block needed stimulus or force a default, whatever it takes to win. If they do actually win, expect a further horrible 4 years, so realistically, we are looking at 2017 before the US even has a chance of a decent recovery, and that assumes GOP will not have the power to sabotage it.

Obama has already crash the economy.

We are in worse shape today than when he took office.

 

[fskimospy]

Obama has already crash the economy.

We are in worse shape today than when he took office.

No, we aren't. We are in vastly better shape.

 

[IGBT]

your obama can no longer escape responsibility. He owns this economy. His finger prints are all over it.

 

[fskimospy]

your obama can no longer escape responsibility. He owns this economy. His finger prints are all over it.

But what about the hand of the eco KOOKS in all of this?! TELL IS ABOUT THE ECO KOOKS PLEASE.

 

[IGBT]

But what about the hand of the eco KOOKS in all of this?! TELL IS ABOUT THE ECO KOOKS PLEASE.

go look in the mirror and talk to your self. Time you did some serious reflection.

 

[Jhhnn]

Obama has already crash the economy.

We are in worse shape today than when he took office.

Yeh, I know, that's the new Republican Mantra.

Obama didn't crash the economy- he drove in on one side of Washington as the tornado of the Ownership society left on the other.

The economy was tumbling down when he ran for office, which is a big part of why he was elected. And he's mostly done the right things to try to turn it around, if at a lower level than necessary. He and most of the rest of America didn't and still don't realize just how badly we've been screwed by the looting spree of the Ownership Society.

I remember when things were so bad that Dub & Dick couldn't show their faces at the RNC in 2008, and nobody there even mentioned their names. 3 years later, the arrogance is back, however. They found somebody else to blame, and in their own dementia, some actually believe it.

With Repubs insisting on spending cuts and with business holding onto their cash as if for dear life, growth will obviously be, uhh, limited. It's the way they want it, and they have the power in congress to make it happen, more or less.

Current republican initiatives involve magical thinking- if we cut spending, lay off more people, then unemployment will magically go away... It's the same kind of flimflam involved in holding taxes for so-called job creators low while they're not creating enough jobs to matter...

Great Recession part Duh! coming right up, just what Republican funders seem to want rather desperately.

 

[theeedude]

Obama has already crash the economy.

We are in worse shape today than when he took office.

Coming from a guy who thought things were great in 2008.
How about you leave economic analysis to people who are not as consistently wrong about everything?

 

[IGBT]

so what are you guys going to do when most of ya are thrown out of a job over the next few years and all you have is your hollow obama and his soaring rhetoric encouraging class envy?? Oh I know!! you'll blame bush.

 

[Generator]

Walstreet really fucked us. We need a congress and a president that won't be bribed for a few million dollars...which won't be worth anything in the end anyway.

The Republicans love to play politics, but I'm starting to get the feeling that even they have some hesitations. The Democrats have no answers. I don't know if its because of stupidity or insanity.

Then there is the Jews. Jesus christ are they going to have a pain train run over them. Hey...we gotta blame somebody lol...

 

[Jhhnn]

so what are you guys going to do when most of ya are thrown out of a job over the next few years and all you have is your hollow obama and his soaring rhetoric encouraging class envy?? Oh I know!! you'll blame bush.

There are long term consequences to top down looting sprees, which is what we recently experienced with the Ownership Society. The sooner we recognize that, the sooner we'll begin to actually recover and to restore the foundations of the New Deal that promoted and will promote a more stable, prosperous, and egalitarian future.

Obama isn't doing that, and Republicans sure as Hell won't. We're still giving credibility to the failed economic & fiscal policies of the Right, Reaganomics, policies that benefit the wealthy above everybody else. It's a lie- always was, always will be. There's no "down" in trickledown supply side economics, only "up".

The truth? Here's the truth-

There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.
— Warren Buffett

 

[Macamus Prime]

Uhm, we waited 'til November 2010, and the GOP is making things worse?

I thought you guys were going to fix everything. Oh, now I'll have to wait 'til November 2012?

Let me guess; we invade Iran in the beginning of 2013? THEN things will get better, right?

/eyeroll

You idiots handed this country over to people who are out to make a profit. And, you support them, blindly. They fucked over everyone. Their wealth has grown by leaps and bounds. Everyone else is working harder, poor, in prison or on a battlefield. Is this the country you people want?? Because you spent the last 30 years making it happen.

Wow, God is going to be really pissed when you meet Him. Because you did use His name quite a few times to justify the destruction of your fellow man.

 

[alphatarget1]

That was part of the problem too. Too much Home and Garden channel pimping "flip this house". All came crushing down and gasoline was the proverbial straw meet camel.


Well, not getting a raise (after inflation) for a decade and higher prices (gasoline related) pushed them over the edge even farther. Hell, not getting a raise during the last 3.5 years (for many people) at all, I'm surprised that it's even going forward. Obviously, the companies selling the stuff are OK with all time record profits (not sure how though).

How is your company doing? Are they making more money?

 

[First]

hi pj.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=211673&highlight=economy

lolololololololololol

bump.

Obama has already crash the economy.

We are in worse shape today than when he took office.

Double lmao bump.

 

[Engineer]

How is your company doing? Are they making more money?

Seems OK. The previous one closed up the Tooling Plant (where I had worked 17.5 years) and shipped it to Korea and China. Next job was one where the company had just been picked up out of bankruptcy and everyone was forced to take a 20% pay cut. This one is a small company (9 employees) and has done quite well during the recession as many of the larger companies have laid staff off and used companies like this one to pick up the slack. Still getting "routine maintenance" calls almost on a weekly basis. If they don't mind spending $100 per hour to do something that a $15 to $20 maintenance man should do, then I don't mind my company taking it.