FORD EXECUTIVES KNEW THEY WERE KILLING PEOPLE, WHY HAVEN'T THEY BEEN GIVEN THE DEATH SENTENCE?

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Underclocked

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Even the government's own standards for health concerns have a "value per life" basis. It sounds sick, but if you think about it you will realize there HAS to be some such standard. In the real world one cannot assume the monetary value of each life to be immeasurable. There has to be some cost/benefit ratio involved in determing allowable limits of chemical or radiation exposure (as examples).
Why then would be such a shock or cause such outrage to find that companies would do the same thing?

Calculated risks.

Safety factors can be carried to an extreme as well. So much so that no vehicle would be even close to affordable. And I wouldn't want to push the "absolutely safe" baby carriage.
 

WATERBUFFALO

Banned
Apr 2, 2000
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Kru, what is your problem? You want some attention? OK, but be nice or I'll send you to bed without your supper.

My statement about the Japanese has merit, beyond racism. You obviously like pointing fingers at people if they discuss reality. Well the reality is that the Japanese are *MAJOR* racists. Like Hitler, and people who followed his philosophy, they believe in racial purity and that they are superior to others. And you can take that to the bank.

Everyone has a degree of racism, including yourself. If you think posting what I say taken out of context would be interesting on an Asian site, take what I say and post it there. But post the whole thing, not an isolated statement. If you think that the Japanese are ever going to forgive us for dropping those bombs on them, then you live in a fantasy world. What we did was hideous, but I would do it again in order to save American lives. The Japanese used to throw babies of their foes in the air and catch them with their bayonets. They committed heinous crimes against mankind, so please spare me the lecture. And keep in mind I'm not referring to Japanese-Americans.

Tee_Edwards, you say "The Pinto was far from being the first car on which the manufacturer decided to save money by failing to fix a known dangerous condition." You're absolutely right, and it has to be stopped.

"The only reason they got busted as hard as they did was that they maintained internal memos in which they openly discussed the fact that it would be more cost-effective not to fix the fuel-tank problem." In other words, there was evidence to prove they knew about the problem and refused to fix it because of the cost. Same situation here.

"Ford are not "murderers", and I guarantee they will not be subjected to any criminal sanctions in the United States." If you don't consider the deliberate taking of a human life to be something other than murder, we use different dictionaries. I wouldn't be so quick to make guarantee's, I think the public is sick of this thing, but you also have a point about the apathy here. In many countries, the citizens themselves would get a gun and go out and start killing CEO's. I really can't say what I would do if my family were murdered, but I would hope that I would have the guts to track down those guilty and kill them myself if the government refused to do it.

"I am ignorant of the law in Venezuela, but I would be surprised if they are sanctioned there either." If you're ignorant of the law in Venezuela as you claim, how can you make a determination? I'm not picking on you, but I'm using your statement to demonstrate how people have a tendency to make decisions that have no basis in fact, and I'm not trying to say I am any less human, but this subject is serious and we have to stop and think if we're so greedy that we will allow our neighbors to be butchered.

Underclocked, this is not a "calculated risk." You are trying to rationalize, and although your point might serve well in some situations, this is not one of them. Your statement "Safety factors can be carried to an extreme as well." is rather unusual. I can't say I've ever heard or seen anything like that before.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Ornery may have been right. Ditto, in part, for WaterBuffalo. The government is releasing a report that indicates the Ford Explorer is the most likely SUV to roll over. Generally, the report comes down hard on SUVs. Let's watch Americans divest themselves of SUVs! BWUHAHAHAHA!

And I may have given PacFanWeb short shrift. This a.m. a woman in a Chevy Tahoe came flying by me on the interstate at 80 mph, pulled immediately in front of me then slammed on her brakes when she realized the cars in front of us had STOPPED! She locked her brakes and fishtailed for about 50 feet, while I managed to get into the left hand lane and avoid what I thought was impending disaster. One bad tire and that woman and the guy in the rice rocket in front of her could have been dead. Truly amazing. Pretty young girl too. :(
 
Feb 10, 2000
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WaterBuffalo:

What, exactly, is your proposed solution to this crisis? Do you know something the rest of us do not about making a perfectly safe car? I guarantee you your hypothetical 96 MPG auto is not such a car.

As I said before, there is no way to make any product without weighing profits vs. safety. Cars are dangerous, period, and the safer they are, the more they cost.

FYI, Firestone is an American company, whose parent company, Bridgestone, is Japanese. Your theory about the willingness of the Japanese to "murder" Americans is silly, paranoid, and racist. The tires in question were made by Americans.

The reason your FBI file was redacted was that they could not release to you any information protected by the Privacy Act. In this context, most information not personal to you fell under the Act.

 

eia430

Senior member
Sep 7, 2000
369
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WaterBuffalo, I'm not sure if you got a copy of your files that was photo copied AFTER they blacked it out. But if they sent you a copy of the originals then used a pen to black it out you might be able to find various ways to isolate the toner layer under the black pen ink and "uncover" what was blacked out. I have not done this before but a couple of suggestions of possible avenues to pursue.... perhaps different densities of the toner layer vs ink layer would allow you to back-light it and read it that way. Or perhaps if they(toner layer vs ink layer) radiated heat in different wavelengths you could use an adjustable narrow band IR camera. Or perhaps a non wetting (non water) solution that might solubalize the ink layer but not the paper or toner layer. Anyways, good luck in your hunt to uncover what they have on you....
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
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<< I know a lot about this because i was an anti-war activist in the 1960's and found myslef being followed by the FBI for burning my draft card on television at the 1967 Pentagon demonstration. >>




Must have had a kick ass lawyer! The Supreme Court upheld convictions for burning draft cards. How did you get off?
 

Gloaras

Member
Sep 14, 2000
66
0
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Waterbuffalo,

Give me a break! If you have a MULTI billion dollar industry what do you do? Just give it all up.... Do you KNOW what happened behind those closed doors? I don't I wasn't there and I really doubt you were also. I REALLY doubt you would just let your multi-million dollar investment go down the drain. You don't only lose money for yourself but for about a couple of million investors around the world.

I wouldn't blame FORD or any other company, I would start by looking into the capatilistic attitude of the great United States...

Also if I put myself in Hitlers shoes before... Yes very much so you don't want to debate against me about Hitler... This is a tottaly different subject. He is an extreemly radical comparison. The people you are talking about made BAD decisions which caused life. Hitler made &quot;concious&quot; decisions to re-invent a forgotten race (which I am sure you have no idea what I am talking about but I might as well educate you on some things. Hitler though the Germans were the people who had survived from the lost City of Atlantis). Give me a break.. they don't belong in the same category.

 

Easygoing

Senior member
Dec 9, 1999
489
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I bet Firestone won't survive this! This isn't the first time they have done this. Does anyone remember the big recall about 15 years ago. I think they called it the 721 radial or something like that. They came apart as well. I had a new set and they all came apart before I could return them under the recall. You would think they would have learned their lesson back then.
 

WATERBUFFALO

Banned
Apr 2, 2000
174
0
0
Gloaras,

if you think murdering people for money is ok, then you deserve to die a slow horrible death. Your attempt to appear intelligent is very humorous. You might want to learn how to spell.

As far as your remark &quot;(which I am sure you have no idea what I am talking about but I might as well educate you on some things.&quot;), you are absolutely pathetic. How can you be so sure what I know and don't know? Where did you hear the fairy tale that Hitler thought Germans were from Atlantis, on tv?

I'm Jewish and lost many of my family not only during the Hitler administration, but during many pograms such as the one in 1900. My fathers family immediate managed to get out, but the majority of the family were slaughtered. Hitler was involved in the mystical, and used an astrologer like Ronald Reagan did, to make critical decisions that affected millions of people. I know all too well about antisemitism and don't need any misinformation from an ignorant fool.

As far as it being ok to kill people by knowingly selling them defective equipment, if you are in the risk taking business, and you screw up, you lose. If you are not willing to take risks, then get out of a business that has them. You don't get to kill people to cover for a monetary loss. If you can't sustain a loss incurred because of your mistakes, tough. The people who invested in Ford stock knew when they were buying the stock that there was a risk. They chose to buy it and benefited when things went well, and suffered when they did not. What do you think the publicity is going to do to Ford after this? They will lose much more than if they had been honest.

If you hired someone to build you a house, and they knew the materials were defective and built it anyway so as not to lose money, and your family was killed in it, would that be ok with you? It sounds like it would based on your ridiculous argument. Please let me know if you need anything, I would love to make a profit off your family being killed by a defective product.

FORD KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, YOU DON'T PUT 26 POUNDS OF AIR IN A TIRE MADE TO RUN AT 36 POUNDS. DUUUUHHHHH!!! MY VW HAS 30 POUNDS AND IT IS NOT A TRUCK.

&quot;I wouldn't blame FORD or any other company, I would start by looking into the capatilistic attitude of the great United States... &quot; THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING STUPID!! THE CORPORATIONS ARE THE LEADERS OF CAPITALISM!!

Tee_Edwards - you stated &quot;What, exactly, is your proposed solution to this crisis?&quot; It's in my banner. Put them on trial and execute the people who knew the problem existed and failed to do anything. BTW, there is evidence, so just stay tuned and you will see, they aren't just going to walk away this time, some pretty heavy duty people were murdered, and there is going to be hell to pay for it.

You also stated &quot;Do you know something the rest of us do not about making a perfectly safe car?&quot; Probably, but what has that got to do with this? My problem with Ford is that THEY KNEW PEOPLE WERE GOING TO DIE IF THEY DID NOT DO SOMETHING, AND THEY FAILED TO DO ANYTHING TO SAVE MONEY. If you want the answer to your question, contact Ralph Nader.
 

kru

Platinum Member
Oct 24, 1999
2,818
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Well the reality is that the Japanese are *MAJOR* racists. Like Hitler, and people who followed his philosophy, they believe in racial purity and that they are superior to others. And you can take that to the bank.

You're obviously stuck in some time warp roughly around the time WWII ended. Do you honestly believe that people (and cultures) do not change and evolve? If so then you must believe that Germans to this day consider themselves racially superior to all other races and ethnicities. Other people can learn, adapt and progress...why can't you?


And keep in mind I'm not referring to Japanese-Americans.

Ahh...now your own prejudices start to show themselves. So native Japanese have this deep and abiding hatred of Americans but American-Japanese are fine and upstanding individuals? Tell me, is it the fact that they are &quot;American&quot; that makes all the difference? That must mean that Americans are far more forgiving and less inclined to harbor racial prejudices against those not of the same ethnic/racial background.

Why don't you pull your head out of your ass and if you can't be rational, at least make some attempt to be consistent.



 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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WaterBuffalo: We have a lot on Jews on this forum, so we aren't totally insensitive to the Pograms and the Holocaust. But that's no reason to call Ford and the Japanese murderers! We have a few Japanese members as well, and I'm sure they aren't amused. I'm sure you can find a way to tone down your rhetoric to win friends and influence people. Or are you just venting?
 

WATERBUFFALO

Banned
Apr 2, 2000
174
0
0
Kru,

It is you who has their head up my ass.

You are either young and ignorant or just plain stupid. You twist things around like a lyer, I mean lawyer. Things haven't changed much with the human species in the last few centuries, you think you are superior to Socrates? You aren't even fit to shine his shoes. People have only learned how to kill and torture their fellow man in more professional ways.

You think that people have changed and evolved? What have they evolved too? Western society has become the standard for the world. Chinese women have surgery on their eyes to make them rounder, so they will look more Caucasian. Blacks in Ebony and other mainstream magazines usually have Caucasian features. Everybody wants to be white. And if you don't believe me, read &quot;Ways of Seeeing&quot; by John Berger. It will blow your mind. We are presented with beautiful people in advertising to convince us that we are ugly, and then they offer us a way to feel ok if we buy their products. Children are programmed to smoke tobacco that has been laced to make it highly addictive.We now have developed incredible biological warfare. Where's the evolution? You think because you have a computer that human nature has changed?

If you don't believe that whites consider themselves better than blacks, hispanics and asians, you have lost touch with reality and are living in your own cyberspace. Asians also think they are superior, and it has not changed, if anything they look down on us more since they have defeated us financially and are in the process of draining all our wealth. It's a forgone conclusion that they have come full circle. It was they who were the first true civilizations with all the wealth, then it went to western Europe, the USA, and now back to them. The Asians will ultimately rule us. I hope they are better to us than we were to them or we're really in for it.

You amuse me when you make your view that the Germans don't believe they are superior to us. They are superior. They work their asses off while we watch tv and drink beer. They are very disciplined, as are the Japanese. They are the ones who invented rockets and have created staggering major technological breakthroughs.

Your twist my words. I have to trust that a person who pledges their allegiance to a country and becomes a citizen deserves to be an equal. You seem to subscribe to putting them in camps as was done in WWII if a conflict were to break out. You didn't notice Germans being incarcerated during WWII, only Japanese. Who is the racist?

Follow your own advice &quot;Why don't you pull your head out of your ass and if you can't be rational, at least make some attempt to be consistent.&quot; You have only been consistant at being an asshole.

I wonder how much the poison we have been fed all our lives by or government in the form of fluoride in our water has affected us all.

Millenium - Sorry, but I've said too much about my anti-war activity already. I have to take the fifth.

chess9

Sorry, but I do firmly believe that Ford and the Japanese corporation that controls Firestone are murderers. They are, and any jury would find them guilty if they were presented with the facts. But the corporations ARE the government since they have bought and paid for it, so we can't get justice. As I've said before, Richard Pryor was right when he said, &quot;You go down there looking for justice and that's just what you find, &quot;Just Us.&quot;

If the members you mention are Japanese, they should not be annoyed by my remarks. I have attacked the Japanese corporations. I also say that Japanese are racist, but racism is not exclusive to the Japanese, all races and religions think they are better than others. If the people you mention are American citizens, then they are not Japanese, but of Japanese descent.

I think that all corporations in the world should be dismantled, since they are nothing but machines that do not take into account human beings in their quest for wealth. They have become the killer androids we all worry about in science fiction, only they are real, and have slowly taken over the world. If these people you mention work for any corporation that is responsible for killing people, then they are responsible unless they really weren't involved and resign in protest. If their job is so important they will be part of a group of gangsters, they are accomplices. Their race is not an issue. My original comment was meant to express my point of view that at least the Japanese had an excuse to disregard American lives after our dropping nuclear bombs on them, where Ford, who is an American corporation and was built on the blood, sweat and tears of Americans owes the American People the right to trust and believe that Ford will do it's best for it's customers, not kill them.

&quot;You are either part of the solution, or part of the problem.&quot;

What do you think the trillions of dollars Americans had to pay for the &quot;Cold War&quot; against Russia and China were for? They were so ATT, GM, Ford, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Macdonald's, etc. could go over their and make money. And America was bankrupted in the process because Reagan borrowed all the money (trillions) from foreign governments to do it. We went from being the worlds largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation during Reagan. It was a great party. The whole Bush family made millions of personal wealth and were allowed to walk away from huge bank losses without it even affecting their credit.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Jeez louise! I think it is time for Water Buffalo to take a water-buffalo-sized dose of Thorazine. Too bad the voices in his head are unable to help him out with spelling.