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Forbes names 14 most unreliable luxury cars

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Originally posted by: Chrono
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: JEDI
geez...

BMW 5 + 7 series
Mercedes E, S, CLK, and SL

i would have figured w/all the $ people are spending on them (especially the bmw 7 and the merc S) they would build them to perfection.

so the reason why the entry level cars (bmw3, merc c) are not on the list is because they are less complex?

my next car would have been a Merc hardtop convertible.

geez.. looks like i should stick w/a toyota spyder.
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I would'nt take this too seriously.. the sample is flawed.

When you deal with rich people you'll find they are waaaaay more particular... Most have lawyers on retainer year round to sue people for whatever. They do expect perfection vs. someone who just traded in his jalapee for a brand new toyota and can deal with a couple niggles which is far better than hes used to.
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so how much was it for the fireworks?
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About 3 grand up in smoke.. party cost about 5 all told...good for business and the kids have fun.
 
Originally posted by: FOB
Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
Originally posted by: Mo0o
A clear lack of japanese cars might i add
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exactly . . . this is a luxury car comparison . . .
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that's a cheap shot.

RL, LS430, M45, Q45 just to name a few
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Yeah, I know. I just thought it'd be funny.

Those cars are more or less just barely at 5-series "prestige" level, though. I don't think anything japanese really is a competitor of the 7-series.
 
my friend's parents own a 2001 Mercedes Benz e430. Its having all sorts of problems, and he never abuses it. very non-agressive driving- mostly by his grandfather. now its getting all sorts of weird rattling, clanking, and hes had all types of engine troubles. yes, the car is 4 years old, but for the $$$, the problems are really really irksome.
 
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: Zebo
I have no idea why people read CR.. magazine is flawed beyond belief
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Hearding mentaility?
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Yea, CR is just pathetic when it comes to consumer electronics as well.
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I have a buddy who is an actuary for a auto extended warranty company, that's where you see some real numbers about reliability. And they charge for each car differently as they should.. you'd be surprised how close all the manufactures are.

I mean an F-150 extended warranty is not much diff from a Tundra since they are expecting about the same amount of problems.

If domestics are so bad like CR claims how the heck can Chrysler afford to offer 7 year/70,000??? How can ford afford 100,000mi on thier powertrain for heavy duty trucks which are abused day and day out? Hyndai or kia i forget which offered a 10 yr warranty!!!.. They can do it cause thier not bad but instead trying to overcome this sentiment of "low quality" products mainly generated by influential arseholes who don't know statistics from smoking a bong at CR.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
I have no idea why people read CR.. magazine is flawed beyond belief
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Hearding mentaility?
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Because, sometimes, as is stated at the end of the linked article, it is the only game in town. Besides, who else has the time, effort, and money to wash 5,000 loads of clothes, consisting of the same exact mix of atricles of clothing and exposed to the same exact mix of dirt, to look at what washing machine extracts the dirt best? Or what refrigerator actually uses the least energy or advertises its capacity closest to its actual capacity? Or who would spend 5 years doing a controlled experiment with AA, C, and D cell batteries to determine if refrigerating them extends storage life vs. not refrigerating....it didn't. Or checking out claims car battery makers put on their batteries vs. what the batteries actually deliver...CCA, etc.

There are very many instances in which CR is a very useful magazine and does fulfill a needed role......their car section, as a lot of magazines, needs to be viewed with a grain of salt. Their biases come out, just as does Car and Driver's, Motor Trend's, etc. They all are looking from a different vantage point.

To completely dismiss CR as a worthless publication because of what you linked is laughable at best. CR does ineed provide a very valuable service.........always has and always will.
 
I would really like to know how "objective" this test was. I would rather say the rating is more connected to the fact that ppl that buy those kind of cats have very different expectations towards a car than buyers of cheaper cars.
 
Originally posted by: C'DaleRider
Originally posted by: Zebo
I have no idea why people read CR.. magazine is flawed beyond belief
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Hearding mentaility?
Click to expand...

Because, sometimes, as is stated at the end of the linked article, it is the only game in town. Besides, who else has the time, effort, and money to wash 5,000 loads of clothes, consisting of the same exact mix of atricles of clothing and exposed to the same exact mix of dirt, to look at what washing machine extracts the dirt best? Or what refrigerator actually uses the least energy or advertises its capacity closest to its actual capacity? Or who would spend 5 years doing a controlled experiment with AA, C, and D cell batteries to determine if refrigerating them extends storage life vs. not refrigerating....it didn't. Or checking out claims car battery makers put on their batteries vs. what the batteries actually deliver...CCA, etc.

There are very many instances in which CR is a very useful magazine and does fulfill a needed role......their car section, as a lot of magazines, needs to be viewed with a grain of salt. Their biases come out, just as does Car and Driver's, Motor Trend's, etc. They all are looking from a different vantage point.

To completely dismiss CR as a worthless publication because of what you linked is laughable at best. CR does ineed provide a very valuable service.........always has and always will.
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:thumbsup: CR is a great resource. They tend to overdo it a bit with their constant wanking about the needs for more safety in market XYZ. But all in all I really enjoy their tests, exactly because they are more scientific than listening to Joe Blow on a forum say, "I had product ABC and it sucked! I'll never buy a product from them again!"
 
Originally posted by: iversonyin
Originally posted by: delroy
4 that are made by ford, and the rest are all european.....
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They are almost all American.... Benz is owned by Diamon Chrysler....and 4 of them if on it.
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Diamler Chrysler is a GERMAN COMPANY. Mercedes bought out Chrysler not the other way around. :roll:
 
Didn't Jag's have reliablity problems even before Ford bought them out? I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone...heck if I was in the market
for a luxury car, Lexus would be my first choice.
 
Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
Didn't Jag's have reliablity problems even before Ford bought them out? I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone...heck if I was in the market
for a luxury car, Lexus would be my first choice.
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yes, and by most accounts quality went up after ford took them over.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: Zebo
I have no idea why people read CR.. magazine is flawed beyond belief
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Hearding mentaility?
Click to expand...

Yea, CR is just pathetic when it comes to consumer electronics as well.
Click to expand...

I have a buddy who is an actuary for a auto extended warranty company, that's where you see some real numbers about reliability. And they charge for each car differently as they should.. you'd be surprised how close all the manufactures are.

I mean an F-150 extended warranty is not much diff from a Tundra since they are expecting about the same amount of problems.

If domestics are so bad like CR claims how the heck can Chrysler afford to offer 7 year/70,000??? How can ford afford 100,000mi on thier powertrain for heavy duty trucks which are abused day and day out? Hyndai or kia i forget which offered a 10 yr warranty!!!.. They can do it cause thier not bad but instead trying to overcome this sentiment of "low quality" products mainly generated by influential arseholes who don't know statistics from smoking a bong at CR.
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Ahhh.. They can't. That is why this is the last year they are offering it. My girlfriend wants a crossfire and the 7/70k warrenty is the only thing that keeps me from saying 100% NO right now. And unless she can get one in the 27K range she will still probable not get one. I hope she will go with the pontiac soltice or mazda miata 2006
 
Most of the problems with Jags used to be related to the electrical system - it was Lucas (jokes about Lucas: Why do the British drink warm beer? Refrigerators by Lucas, Lucas: God of Darkness .....)

One of the first things Ford did when they bought Jag was to replace the wiring with a (very good) Ford-designed system (same for Rover, I believe).

Most of the Brit cars had Lucas electrical, and most of the complaints were electrical related.

And, I gotta toss this in: I used to do component-level field tech work for a German comapany .... Germans produce the worse electronics in the world. they suck, they suck, they suck .... I'm constantly amazed at how bad they are given that they are generally intellegent folks, generally have well-thought logic ..... but when it comes down to implementing, they just don't produce. They do some of the goofiest design I've ever seen (keep in mind, I'm driving my second Touareg ....).

It boils down to an expectation thing. I bought the Treg knowing that Germans can't design or implement in the electronics arena ... so I was expecting wierd, goofy, glitchy electronic issues. The '04 had some issues, nothing that I'd consider that bad ... just "Sigh .... it's German."

Even Porsche ... a friend is a big 928 freak ... they have relays pulling relays (independently fused, different fuseboxes) , modules tucked away in the fenders .. and frequently flakey electronic modules ...

The article didn't specify a source, but they relate the problem categories back to Consumer Reports magazine .... It'd be nice to know where they got the info.

FWIW

Scott
 
Originally posted by: B00ne
I would really like to know how "objective" this test was. I would rather say the rating is more connected to the fact that ppl that buy those kind of cats have very different expectations towards a car than buyers of cheaper cars.
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Definitely. Individuals buying luxury vehicles expect perfection and every little thing is heavily scrutinized.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: Zebo
I have no idea why people read CR.. magazine is flawed beyond belief
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Hearding mentaility?
Click to expand...

Yea, CR is just pathetic when it comes to consumer electronics as well.
Click to expand...

I have a buddy who is an actuary for a auto extended warranty company, that's where you see some real numbers about reliability. And they charge for each car differently as they should.. you'd be surprised how close all the manufactures are.

I mean an F-150 extended warranty is not much diff from a Tundra since they are expecting about the same amount of problems.

If domestics are so bad like CR claims how the heck can Chrysler afford to offer 7 year/70,000??? How can ford afford 100,000mi on thier powertrain for heavy duty trucks which are abused day and day out? Hyndai or kia i forget which offered a 10 yr warranty!!!.. They can do it cause thier not bad but instead trying to overcome this sentiment of "low quality" products mainly generated by influential arseholes who don't know statistics from smoking a bong at CR.
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That's the truth. I've about quit trying to tell people that Euro and Jap cars aren't that much, if any better than American cars. I've just been in the auto repair business my whole life, what do I know? 😉
Anyway, I like to say this to someone trying to tell my that Hondas or BMW's or whatever foreign cars are so much better than Fords or GM's:
Go to your foreign car dealer of choice: Take a look at the dealership.....and tell me which building is the biggest one. Sales, or Sevice?
If they are that much better, why is the shop full of cars with problems?
Oversimplified, and I would agree that some foreign cars do last longer than American cars, but not to the extent that some people think.
 
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