[Forbes] AMD Is Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' And Nvidia's HairWorks

[SirPauly]

It is about not having unoptimized code taint competing brands' hardware. .

Is it more the tessellation choice to use x64 ?

AMD users can change the tessellation factor and dramatically improve performance -- possibly enjoy the hair and fur feature much more if they choose to. AMD users may enjoy Hairworks.

 

[monstercameron]

Is it more the tessellation choice to use x64 ?



AMD users can change the tessellation factor and dramatically improve performance -- possibly enjoy the hair and fur feature much more if they choose to. AMD users may enjoy Hairworks.

I say attempting a more general approach, not specific to hair works, the underlying problems I have with the program.

 

[swilli89]

And I still agree. Nvidia's publisher relations are definitely winning them this war. Is it dirty? Nah, it's good marketing/partnerships. AMD could take a page from them. When AMD did something similar (Game Evolved) I remember them having some lime light. But that was ages ago.

Look at how their Battlefield promotion went. AMD can't sell a product even if it came lined with gold wrapping (and this is coming from an open Radeon fanboy).

Please refrain from unsubstantiated flamebait "facts" like this. It is against forum rules.

And for a self described "Open Radeon Fanboy" you sure do seem to buy a lot of nVidia cards.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Do any of you work for free?

You honestly don't know the difference between cooperating for the advancement of a given industry and profiting from intellectual property?

 

[bowler484]

GTA5 was fine, but AMD and Nvidia both worked with the developer on the game and it was well optimized across all cards.

This is the whole point of what I'm saying.

If AMD can optimize for GTA V despite Gameworks presence, why are they not doing the same for the rest of the Gameworks games?

Don't get me wrong, some Gameworks features are not going to run well on AMD. But to take a game that only has TXAA and HBAO+ like Watch Dogs and claim they purposely crippled you, the evidence is simply not there to support the claim and they need to be called out on it.

 

[Azix]

Who said anything about selling games? Last I checked AMD wants to sell GPUs, correct? Well, promoting popular games with your product CAN help you sell your product. Simple marketing.

Thought was talking about selling battlefield as a GE game.

 

[3DVagabond]

ok I see........I would say both,devs cater to Nvidia because of their marketshare and Nvidia is catering to AAA tites as they should.

I think we are on the same page now sorry.

Nope. Devs only care about the color of nVidia's money. They couldn't care less about an IHV's marketshare except as it relates to the size of their wallets.

 

[railven]

Please refrain from unsubstantiated flamebait "facts" like this. It is against forum rules.

What "facts?" Everything I post is my opinion unless accompanied by a source. I doubt the rules require us to include "in my opinion" with every time we post. Shoot I should just add that to my signature since people love to base my buying habits on it. See below.

And for a self described "Open Radeon Fanboy" you sure do seem to buy a lot of nVidia cards.

And here it is, again. Because I only list my current card in MY rig, some how "you sure do buy a lot of Nvidia cards."

Anyone got a way back machine so we can show this guy when it said:
HD 5870
HD 5870 2GB
HD 7970
HD 7970 CFX

It would say R9 290/290X if they weren't >$500 when I was in the market to buy.

 

[3DVagabond]

Please list all the performance issues caused to AMD by Gameworks in GTA then. Why are there no stories on tech sites about Gameworks crippling AMD and using GTA as an example?

It's quite telling when you have to directly focus on something like a number or percentage when there is so much more to the post.

How does pulling out a title that's done it right make any excuse for those who didn't? Your logic escapes me.

 

[3DVagabond]

On the other hand you have people saying Nvidia is purposely sabotaging themselves with Keplar. Go figure ha?

Not themselves, just their customers.

 

[3DVagabond]

Some other company will step up to the plate and buy AMD with the money to run a proper marketing campaign. It might turn out better than expected.:thumbsup:
Samsung is listed as the 18th biggest company in the world, mabe they can make a proper gpu/cpu. Mabe they will buy AMD. Just throwing this out there.

They'll buy AMD's IP and use it in phones. There's not enough money in dGPU for anyone with those kinds of resources to care. AMD goes away and we all suffer. Not that that's actually likely to happen, though. That's just a wet dream for some people here.

 

[3DVagabond]

Who said anything about selling games? Last I checked AMD wants to sell GPUs, correct? Well, promoting popular games with your product CAN help you sell your product. Simple marketing.

AMD does have developer relationships, AMD does contribute code to game development. Forward+, Mantle, TressFX, Global Illumination, just a few things I recall being pushed by AMD just a year or two ago. And this bullet points gave AMD more "talking points" on forum discussions.

EDIT: AMD needs to get back on the saddle and snag some big titles again. Get their tech promoted over Nvidia's.

AMD can get 50% of the AAA games and nVidia the other 50%. How is that going to fix anything? AMD's 50% run fine regardless of brand and nVidia's are crippled for everything except nVidia's latest models. Nothing is fixed. It's still the same.

The only way this stops is for the people who are the real investors, that's you and me, remove our investment. Stop making it profitable. Nothing else will fix it.

Well, nothing else short of the govt. stepping in and regulating it somehow. I'd like to think that we are smart enough not to need the govt. holding our hands all of the time telling us what to buy.

 

[railven]

AMD can get 50% of the AAA games and nVidia the other 50%. How is that going to fix anything? AMD's 50% run fine regardless of brand and nVidia's are crippled for everything except nVidia's latest models. Nothing is fixed. It's still the same.

The only way this stops is for the people who are the real investors, that's you and me, remove our investment. Stop making it profitable. Nothing else will fix it.

It would give me more interest in AMD cards. MGS5 being Greenworks is the only real thing right now keeping me looking at Nvidia cards. If it were Game Evolved, I'd have no worries getting an AMD card.

I'm sure there are people like me who focus on games they like. When I saw Radeon was finally doing better than Nvidia on WoW, the itch to just run out and buy a 290X had never been greater.

(If you haven't noticed, I'm dying for a reason to switch back to Radeon. I actually do prefer it, but if Greenworks and the like is going to infiltrate a good chunk of games while AMD just sits there and watches - why should I throw money at them?

Well, nothing else short of the govt. stepping in and regulating it somehow. I'd like to think that we are smart enough not to need the govt. holding our hands all of the time telling us what to buy.

Mighty dollar rules, and right now AMD doesn't have much of it to make much splash. Which is sad. And rumored $850 Fiji XT is not my idea of winning me back. I defended the $550 price for HD 7970 at launch, I don't think I could defend $850. Even if it beats Titan X. Both these companies have lost their minds in my opinion.

 

[crashtech]

It looks like AMD doesn't have the available resources to play and/or counter the kind of dirty tricks that sacrifice consumers to benefit sharefolders. But hopefully AMD will get a win on sheer technological prowess this time around. It would be rather hilarious to see Hairworks perform really well on Fiji.

 

[3DVagabond]

It looks like AMD doesn't have the available resources to play and/or counter the kind of dirty tricks that sacrifice consumers to benefit sharefolders. But hopefully AMD will get a win on sheer technological prowess this time around. It would be rather hilarious to see Hairworks perform really well on Fiji.

Unless AMD bought every AAA title then the argument for buying nVidia due to gameworks would still apply.

 

[bowler484]

How does pulling out a title that's done it right make any excuse for those who didn't? Your logic escapes me.

It's really simple to understand.

A company claims Gameworks cripples them.

A game with Gameworks releases that shows they are only as crippled as the time they spend on making it work.

We can't have it both ways. You can't claim something cripples you then show an example of where it does not and expect people not to notice.

 

[digitaldurandal]

It's really simple to understand.

A company claims Gameworks cripples them.

A game with Gameworks releases that shows they are only as crippled as the time they spend on making it work.

We can't have it both ways. You can't claim something cripples you then show an example of where it does not and expect people not to notice.

Ubisoft literally told AMD no thank you when they asked to work with them. Rockstar was willing to let both companies work with them. CDPR, jury is still out. But I think it would be blind to not even consider that Nvidia may be urging developers not to work with AMD. Additionally their performance was decent right up until the Gold build of W3 supposedly.

Heck, I really don't think their performance is very poor anyways. From what I have seen cards around the same performance as a 290x have to turn off hairworks regardless.

 

[SirPauly]

You honestly don't know the difference between cooperating for the advancement of a given industry and profiting from intellectual property?

The strategy was to improve GeForce customers experiences, create brand awareness to sell GeForce. It's a competitive landscape. It's easy for you to offer cooperation but it's not your risk, resources creating it.

 

[Kenmitch]

It doesn't -- happy for you and your tessellation flexibility; to find the right balance of quality/performance for your subjective tastes and tolerances. It's a slippery slope to me and takes a strong commitment from an IHV to not trade-off performance for a subtle loss in IQ.

Sadly as a GTX 970 owner NVIDIA feels its in their best interest to withhold such options as tessellation factor control. If it's just a we can't figure it out thing....They could always ask AMD for help.

Viewing the W3 images posted 64x does look best to me. Viewing benchmarks it doesn't look like the juice is worth the squeeze (Performance wise) I won't complain too much as W3 doesn't look like a game I'd buy anyways. Maybe on Humble Bundle I'd consider it.

Registering my references 970 with NVIDIA didn't even get me " Thanks for registering " email acknowledgment. In the end all I got was spammed by them pimping products such as TitanX. Gives me the impression they just want my money!

I do understand the thirst for visual fidelity as you call it. Just seems it should be more than a all or nothing scenario.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The strategy was to improve GeForce customers experiences, create brand awareness to sell GeForce.

Brand awareness? Geforce experience? I don't know about you but I don't think of these things when I fire up a game, in fact I find all the logos and in your face branding annoying it is similar to product placement in movies.

It's a competitive landscape.

No it's an anti-competitive landscape that Nvidia is creating.

 

[3DVagabond]

It's really simple to understand.

A company claims Gameworks cripples them.

A game with Gameworks releases that shows they are only as crippled as the time they spend on making it work.

We can't have it both ways. You can't claim something cripples you then show an example of where it does not and expect people not to notice.

Rockstar did it right. They let both companies optimize before release. Likely because GTA5 was too big of a title on it's own for nVidia to influence them to do otherwise. Other titles where the effects of Gameworks can be directly linked to poorer performance aren't excused simply because GTA5 doesn't have the issue.

 

[crashtech]

No it's an anti-competitive landscape that Nvidia is creating.

Say rather anti-consumer, we have Kepler owners to show for that.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Say rather anti-consumer, we have Kepler owners to show for that.

Could say that the two are joined at the hip.

 

[SirPauly]

In the end all I got was spammed by them pimping products such as TitanX. Gives me the impression they just want my money!

As a posting dinosaur, purchased a 3dfx Voodoo 5, for the very high quality RGSSSAA and when nVidia purchased the 3dfx core assets on that tough Friday in December of 2000 -- had no support and left with a product with no company and what did nVidia do? Spam my 3dfx gamer e-mail to sell their products. Cold, but it was a competitive landscape then as it is today.

 

[Vesku]

This is the whole point of what I'm saying.

If AMD can optimize for GTA V despite Gameworks presence, why are they not doing the same for the rest of the Gameworks games?

Don't get me wrong, some Gameworks features are not going to run well on AMD. But to take a game that only has TXAA and HBAO+ like Watch Dogs and claim they purposely crippled you, the evidence is simply not there to support the claim and they need to be called out on it.

Rockstar Games used neither Hairworks nor TressFX in GTA V.