[Forbes] AMD Is Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' And Nvidia's HairWorks

[Azix]

https://www.change.org/p/cd-projekt...ion-to-use-tressfx-in-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt

signed. I want to see tressfx 3.0 out of curiosity too. Dx12 would probably do wonders as well. I think I remember they mentioned cutting things from the game due to dx11 limitations

 

[happy medium]

Devs aren't catering to Nvidia. More like Nvidia is targeting specific high profile titles and catering to them. If it were the other way around the amount of games using Greenworks would be the majority.

This I will guarantee , if AMD don't stop making cheap rebranded spaceheaters and gain back some marketshare, Greenworks will be the majority. That goes for their cpu's also.

 

[maddie]

On the other hand you have people saying Nvidia is purposely sabotaging themselves with Keplar. Go figure ha?

Maybe because Maxwell exists.

As a strategic goal for a CEO and company:

If I have close to 100% market share, how do I increase revenue, profits,etc in a static to declining market.
One way is to make a more rapid turnover of equipment. The phone market is the perfect example of this. This however is harder in the GPU space because of lower annual improvements in performance.
For Nvidia this makes sense. For me as a consumer, I will rebel. The fact that AMD since the HD2900 has generally offered more performance for less money, makes my present position fairly easy to accommodate. I will not a revenue generator for you.

 

[railven]

This I will guarantee , if AMD don't stop making cheap rebranded spaceheaters and gain back some marketshare, Greenworks will be the majority. That goes for their cpu's also.

And I still agree. Nvidia's publisher relations are definitely winning them this war. Is it dirty? Nah, it's good marketing/partnerships. AMD could take a page from them. When AMD did something similar (Game Evolved) I remember them having some lime light. But that was ages ago.

Look at how their Battlefield promotion went. AMD can't sell a product even if it came lined with gold wrapping (and this is coming from an open Radeon fanboy).

 

[Azix]

This I will guarantee , if AMD don't stop making cheap rebranded spaceheaters and gain back some marketshare, Greenworks will be the majority. That goes for their cpu's also.

nvidia likes them rebrands too. I guess intel is going to take over.

Maybe because Maxwell exists.

As a strategic goal for a CEO and company:

If I have close to 100% market share, how do I increase revenue, profits,etc in a static to declining market.
One way is to make a more rapid turnover of equipment. The phone market is the perfect example of this. This however is harder in the GPU space because of lower annual improvements in performance.
For Nvidia this makes sense. For me as a consumer, I will rebel. The fact that AMD since the HD2900 has generally offered more performance for less money, makes my present position fairly easy to accommodate. I will not a revenue generator for you.

nvidia must have used this same logic. Thinking their maxwell sales meant they had close to 100% market share and they just catered to that. Maxwell = 100% so ...

well they forgot kepler and all the GPUs they sold before. Same goes for AMDs sales. Nvidia market share iwas 75% for a quarter last year because they had launched the lie that was the 970 and the 980. Nobody said they are close to 100% of the discrete GPUs out there and anyone who makes decisions based on a single quarter in this case shouldn't be running a game company.

And I still agree. Nvidia's publisher relations are definitely winning them this war. Is it dirty? Nah, it's good marketing/partnerships. AMD could take a page from them. When AMD did something similar (Game Evolved) I remember them having some lime light. But that was ages ago.

Look at how their Battlefield promotion went. AMD can't sell a product even if it came lined with gold wrapping (and this is coming from an open Radeon fanboy).

AMD doesn't make games so why are they on the hook for selling them? BF4 sold well and is probably still being played today. GE was also huge for AMD upping the value of their cards while giving us good performing games. If AMD was operating in a way that would sabotage PC gaming like nvidia is, maybe they'd be more popular I guess.

Developer relations are usually background stuff unless its something like gameworks that seems to be attached to broken games on the regular. Then the spin comes that the issue is that AMD has no developer relations. It's really backwards.

People make noise about gameworks because it sucks and this is converted into something good because it shows nvidias developer relations (sabotage) as existing.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The bottom line is AMD is purposely not optimizing anything Gameworks until the game is released. It's being done so people believe Gameworks is the one and only cause when it's not. It paints AMD and it's users as victims to make Nvidia look bad.

There is simply no way this is happening, do you honestly believe this? Serious question.

 

[happy medium]

For me as a consumer, I will rebel

For me as a consumer I want the best performance, with the best features, with the best support in MY price range.
I don't care if Nvidia's president goes over the AMD's presidents house, robs his safe of all AMD's secrets and uses them with Pascal, and vice versa, that moral stuff don't concern me.
Cheat, lie ,steal, use gameworks to stomp AMD into the ground, just give me the product I want to buy.

To be fair, I'd buy AMD if they did this to Nvidia, I don't care about what goes on behind the headlines. Just give me my product.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Cheat, lie ,steal, use gameworks to stomp AMD into the ground, just give me the product I want to buy.

You are not going to get that product you want to buy if there is a lack of competition, and all the things you have no problem with are well on their way to doing just that.

 

[happy medium]

well they forgot kepler and all the GPUs they sold before.

Mabe I'm just out of the loop but, how many games has Keplar suffered this tragic loss of performance? I know the Witcher 3.........Was GTA V also bad? That was the last major release right?

 

[happy medium]

You are not going to get that product you want to buy if there is a lack of competition, and all the things you have no problem with are well on their way to doing just that.

Some other company will step up to the plate and buy AMD with the money to run a proper marketing campaign. It might turn out better than expected.:thumbsup:
Samsung is listed as the 18th biggest company in the world, mabe they can make a proper gpu/cpu. Mabe they will buy AMD. Just throwing this out there.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Some other company will step up to the plate and buy AMD...

Could end up being Nvidia, or a company that has no interest in competing with Nvidia. Either way a much better scenario is companies conducting their business in an ethical manner no cheating, lying, stealing and other underhanded tactics you have no problem supporting.

 

[happy medium]

you have no problem supporting.

Supporting? No, let me make myself clear., I don't care about that underhanded tactics stuff.To me its the way business is played everyday, isn't it?

I'm a consumer, not the ethics committee.

 

[maddie]

For me as a consumer I want the best performance, with the best features, with the best support in MY price range.
I don't care if Nvidia's president goes over the AMD's presidents house, robs his safe of all AMD's secrets and uses them with Pascal, and vice versa, that moral stuff don't concern me.
Cheat, lie ,steal, use gameworks to stomp AMD into the ground, just give me the product I want to buy.

To be fair, I'd buy AMD if they did this to Nvidia, I don't care about what goes on behind the headlines. Just give me my product.

Then that is, I suppose, very human. I'm told that we have a lot of trouble thinking longer term.
I for one would prefer not to deal with someone unethical. Notice I said prefer. Sometimes we have too painful a choice, but I don't see it applying here as I said before [AMD generally gives more performance/$, with more than good enough drivers,etc] so the choice in this case isn't painful and might even be easy.

Look at what happened to the finance industry. You really don't care about business ethics?

 

[Kenmitch]

To some performance is everything, but to me, enhancements, fidelity features and a commitment for them is very important as well. I debated against nVidia's aggressive optimizations for performance in the past, was very, very vocal and nVIdia has learned from their mistakes of the past and impressed by their commitment, really since the G-80.

I think it's a slippery slope, sorry.

The ability to control ones fidelity would in no way hamper yours. Not sure the point your trying to make.

For example:

If 16x tessellation looks acceptable to me how does it effect you?

 

[maddie]

The ability to control ones fidelity would in no way hamper yours. Not sure the point your trying to make.

For example:

If 16x tessellation looks acceptable to me how does it effect you?

Very true. PC gaming is generally about choice. If someone wants everything decided for them then they might be in the wrong segment.

 

[railven]

AMD doesn't make games so why are they on the hook for selling them? BF4 sold well and is probably still being played today. GE was also huge for AMD upping the value of their cards while giving us good performing games. If AMD was operating in a way that would sabotage PC gaming like nvidia is, maybe they'd be more popular I guess.

Developer relations are usually background stuff unless its something like gameworks that seems to be attached to broken games on the regular. Then the spin comes that the issue is that AMD has no developer relations. It's really backwards.

People make noise about gameworks because it sucks and this is converted into something good because it shows nvidias developer relations (sabotage) as existing.

Who said anything about selling games? Last I checked AMD wants to sell GPUs, correct? Well, promoting popular games with your product CAN help you sell your product. Simple marketing.

AMD does have developer relationships, AMD does contribute code to game development. Forward+, Mantle, TressFX, Global Illumination, just a few things I recall being pushed by AMD just a year or two ago. And this bullet points gave AMD more "talking points" on forum discussions.

EDIT: AMD needs to get back on the saddle and snag some big titles again. Get their tech promoted over Nvidia's.

 

[SirPauly]

The ability to control ones fidelity would in no way hamper yours. Not sure the point your trying to make.

For example:

If 16x tessellation looks acceptable to me how does it effect you?

It doesn't -- happy for you and your tessellation flexibility; to find the right balance of quality/performance for your subjective tastes and tolerances. It's a slippery slope to me and takes a strong commitment from an IHV to not trade-off performance for a subtle loss in IQ.

 

[bowler484]

You are claiming that AMD is sabotaging themselves so as to seen as the victim. They must truly be run by masochists.

This alone makes everything you posted worthless.

I'm actually stunned that someone can believe this.

And I'm stunned that you can't.

And it's not masochism, it's manipulation and you're falling for it.

In the past, we'd hear a bit about each company having issues with games that fell under the other one's banner. After a couple weeks, stories long gone and patches fixed stuff and it's all good or close to it.

Suddenly, one company that's losing market share and has no new product in the pipeline to win it back gets a couple tech news outlets to run the story that Gameworks is crippling them and they can no longer optimize starting with Watch Dogs. TXAA simply doesn't run on AMD cards so that's not it. HBAO+ is shown by multiple sites to have the same effect running on either camp's cards. So what exactly couldn't they optimize? Newer AMD drivers show gains being made in performance because once they got the point across, they put the time in and fixed it.

Now each time a Gameworks game gets released, we get the same old song and dance. Project Cars, AMD and developer have twitter war blaming each other. Then comments get retracted and they get to work optimizing for AMD. Why was this not done earlier so AMD users didn't have a bad experience? So AMD could blame Gameworks for that bad experience.

It's really funny how nobody will address GTA V use of Gameworks anywhere and how it ran fine for AMD right out of the box. Maybe, just maybe, because AMD actually worked with the developer before release.

The proof is there for those who want to see it.

 

[happy medium]

It's really funny how nobody will address GTA V

I asked the question in post 284, I never got the answer.

Mabe I'm just out of the loop but, how many games has Keplar suffered this tragic loss of performance? I know the Witcher 3.........Was GTA V also bad? That was the last major release right?

 

[SirPauly]

imho,

TBH, the pointing fingers, complaining, blame game, not fair, hurts AMD's brand to me. nVidia's property is nVidia's property, why is it surprising that they desire to protect their IP and leverage it for their ecosystem? If AMD doesn't like it, nothing is stopping them to offer tools and features, showcase their efficiency, if possible, and be more open if they desire.

From a gamers point-of-view desire open but I can understand nVidia's point. I didn't spend anything or have the talents to innovate, risk, or have a company that has tremendous R&D budget and employee over-head, create shareholder value. Even though I desire open, vocal, but really can offer a simple post, where nVidia actually invents and innovates and desires awareness and get paid for their risk and hard work. Do any of you work for free?

 

[xthetenth]

Do any of you work for free?

I work at a company that realizes how important ecosystem health is and that if our competition dies we're in trouble since we sell to businesses and they're a whole lot smarter than consumers, so buying into something with a single supplier isn't something they want to do.

 

[monstercameron]

No body wants to steal nvidias ip, it's not about working for free... It is about not having unoptimized code taint competing brands' hardware. That might mean nividia either maintains the amd path, or ISVs or amd themselves. Doesn't need to be the way it currently is.

 

[Hitman928]

I asked the question in post 284, I never got the answer.

GTA5 was fine, but AMD and Nvidia both worked with the developer on the game and it was well optimized across all cards.

From off the top of my head, recent games with Kepler performance issues (I know simply because I am in the market for a new card so I've been paying close attention).

 

[maddie]

I work at a company that realizes how important ecosystem health is and that if our competition dies we're in trouble since we sell to businesses and they're a whole lot smarter than consumers, so buying into something with a single supplier isn't something they want to do.

This brings up an interesting point. Why do you think businesses as distinct from individual people do not want monopoly suppliers and actually prefer strong competition from their suppliers? People also run businesses, yet as individuals, some want one side to be crushed out of existence. I'm struggling to understand.

 

[Hitman928]

Dying Light wasn't as bad, but still came in lower than expected for Kepler.