[Forbes] AMD Is Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' And Nvidia's HairWorks

[Trovaricon]

MisterLilBig & 3DVagabond: Guys you hit the response / quote buttons way too early - read the whole comment you are trying to respond to.

this discussion - the pub I wrote about. In a wider sense because only limited knowledge is present.

I am an non-game software engineer and also hardware enthusiast who after years of "someone is wrong on the internet" choose to just laugh at it.
What else do you expect to happen when you turn art into industry (music "industry", game "industry") or research and engineering into politics?

 

[coercitiv]

I am an non-game software engineer and also hardware enthusiast who after years of "someone is wrong on the internet" choose to just laugh at it.
What else do you expect to happen when you turn art into industry (music "industry", game "industry") or research and engineering into politics?

Well then, sit back and silently enjoy the thread like many others do. Turning art into industry is just as related to this thread as Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Cheers!

 

[MisterLilBig]

Trovaricon, what did I say that was out of place?

Yes, the developers and people that work on the game are the ones responsible.

Some people are trying to say that AMD is, in any way, responsible for how the game runs, even tho they had no part in the development.

Logic and reasoning should still be promoted, if you are able and capable.

 

[greatnoob]

Trovaricon, what did I say that was out of place?

Yes, the developers and people that work on the game are the ones responsible.

Some people are trying to say that AMD is, in any way, responsible for how the game runs, even tho they had no part in the development.

Logic and reasoning should still be promoted, if you are able and capable.

People in this thread barely understand what open source means throwing around words they don't know in hopes of making an argument out of nonsense. Logic and reasoning are not present in this thread. Go ahead and try to explain something and they'll think you're on Team Red/Green and attack you for it.

There are people here who read sentences and create supposed 'rebuttals' over them as if they are independent of the context of what you're trying to explain. Then there are others who speak out of their ass with their 'if' and 'buts' when you bring in an objective stance to the subject. Mods should go ahead and lock this thread again.

 

[Final8ty]

Fast forwards to 9:20 mins.
http://www.twitch.tv/amd/v/5334646

 

[desprado]

Fast forwards to 9:20 mins.
http://www.twitch.tv/amd/v/5334646

U are showing same old AMD complain with nothing but only complain.No real solution.

Only the solution was to lower the image quality to 16X tessellation.

 

[Final8ty]

And i think there complaints are valid.

 

[casiofx]

U are showing same old AMD complain with nothing but only complain.No real solution.

Only the solution was to lower the image quality to 16X tessellation.

More like unnecessary performance degradation for nil image quality gains for using 64x tessellation

 

[greatnoob]

Spoken like a true never developed a single thing in their life forum poster!

CDPR's guys don't know an API they've never used. If you think it is as simple as just reading the documentation and change a few calls, you're beyond stupid.

Warning issued for personal attack.
-- stahlhart

Feel free to try a 'true never developed a single thing in their life' program that actually does something. I can even post my site's link here so you can check out my portfolio.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2423380

See that sqlite library I used? It took me no more than 2 minutes to setup and understand how it worked. Why? Because as a programmer I have a feeling of the innards of a system I know I'm going to use. They won't match 100% but I know that there WILL be subroutines that handle one or more things that I need it to do.

If you think it is as simple as just reading the documentation and change a few calls, you're beyond stupid.

No where did I say this, but indeed that is why the documentation is there for, to document the workings and interchange of processes and data between classes but of course you wouldn't know the workspace of a developer because you're too busy blindly swallowing your own words that hold no merit like a TRUE (in your own words) 'never developed a single thing in their life forum poster'.

 

[happy medium]

When Nvidia released Gameworks in Q1 of last year, they commanded 65% of the market. Now they are in the low 70's

Actually there at or above 76% by now.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-76-amd-24-gpu-marketshare-q4-2014.html

This is why game companies cater to Nvidia. Its all about money. Just like with consoles. If Sony/Microsoft hold 76% of the console market, most game developers won't even make the game for the Nintendo system that holds 20% market share.

Its not Nvidia's fault they have been gaining so much market share. In my opinion its AMD's fault. Hot ,power consuming gpu's and cpu's give their entire name a bad rap. They are the cheap alternative ,second rate cpu/gpu maker at this point. The lower their market share , the less game developers care what they need. Its business ,not personal.

This is the main reason (in my opinion) people pay a little extra for Nvidia gpu's ,just like Intel cpu's. They want good speed, quick driver fixes, at fair prices. If you throw in some special stuff like gameworks and PhysX, that's just the butter on the bread.

 

[railven]

Actually there at or above 76% by now.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-76-amd-24-gpu-marketshare-q4-2014.html

This is why game companies cater to Nvidia. Its all about money. Just like with consoles. If Sony/Microsoft hold 76% of the console market, most game developers won't even make the game for the Nintendo system that holds 20% market share.

Its not Nvidia's fault they have been gaining so much market share. In my opinion its AMD's fault. Hot ,power consuming gpu's and cpu's give their entire name a bad rap. They are the cheap alternative ,second rate cpu/gpu maker at this point. The lower their market share , the less game developers care what they need. Its business ,not personal.

This is the main reason (in my opinion) people pay a little extra for Nvidia gpu's ,just like Intel cpu's. They want good speed, quick driver fixes, at fair prices. If you throw in some special stuff like gameworks and PhysX, that's just the butter on the bread.

Well that's just wrong. When Nintendo held roughly 54% of the market with Wii, developers still didn't bring games to the Nintendo due to multiple reasons, the primary being hardware deficiencies.

Devs aren't catering to Nvidia. More like Nvidia is targeting specific high profile titles and catering to them. If it were the other way around the amount of games using Greenworks would be the majority.

 

[happy medium]

More like Nvidia is targeting specific high profile titles and catering to them.

ANd this is wrong how? Nvidia is a business, they want to make money,and gain market share right? It seems to be working for them.

The Nintendo thing was just an example, we all know they make little kids games.

 

[railven]

ANd this is wrong how? Nvidia is a business, they want to make money,and gain market share right? It seems to be working for them.

Why would I say my argument is wrong?

The Nintendo thing was just an example, we all know they make little kids games.

True, but what does this have to do with other devs?

 

[happy medium]

Why would I say my argument is wrong?

Is it wrong for Nvidia to target devs was the question?

 

[railven]

Is it wrong for Nvidia to target devs was the question?

That was my argument. Are you asking me to agree with my statement? Because, that's odd.

Just to make sure we're both on the same page:
You said companies are catering to Nvidia.

I disagreed and said Nvidia is catering to specific companies.

Unless you, disagree with me?

 

[SirPauly]

What about the tech sites running their benches with it on though? That is where the benefit to nVidia comes from.

I think, objectively, many sites may focus benching without HairWorks if the context is performance review between AMD and nVidia.

HairWorks is welcomed, but not ideal, would like to see nVidia be more open so many more gamers may enjoy their innovation and developers may use it more -- more adoption. I rarely disagree with nVidia, but do here.

 

[happy medium]

That was my argument. Are you asking me to agree with my statement? Because, that's odd.

Just to make sure we're both on the same page:
You said companies are catering to Nvidia.

I disagreed and said Nvidia is catering to specific companies.

Unless you, disagree with me?

ok I see........I would say both,devs cater to Nvidia because of their marketshare and Nvidia is catering to AAA tites as they should.

I think we are on the same page now sorry.

 

[swilli89]

Is it wrong for Nvidia to target devs was the question?

Nope, they are a business. Their mission critical goal is to maximize profits. If they make 1 Billion in a quarter, they will immediately brainstorm how to make more, enough is never enough. All businesses strive to operate this way.

I think people develop a bit of captors syndrome in identifying with these companies, we are consumers, not stakeholders. We want $100 graphics cards that are twice as fast every year. We want to maximize return for our purchase.

I do believe that legislation should be enacted to limit software companies colluding to limit performance of other companies' offerings. Just like how AMD and Intel share all the extensions and they compete purely on a hardware level, as hardware companies should.

Its why I have written several simply worded communications to my senator and representatives that has shown that this is an area we need the government to regulate. nVidia or AMD should neither be allowed to influence game developers outside of branding or co-marketing. Anything that actually changes how a game functions should be regulated, and hopefully will be someday.

 

[happy medium]

HairWorks is welcomed, but not ideal, would like to see nVidia be more open so many more gamers may enjoy their innovation and developers may use it more -- more adoption. I rarely disagree with nVidia, but do here.

Well three (edit) things have to happen.
1.Nvidia will have to let AMD share in their hard work for free with the game developers. (not gonna happen)
2.AMD needs to develop their own Hairworks type stuff and work with developers better to have it released with AAA games.

Edit:
OR
3.AMD will need to up their marketshare to make developers come to them.

 

[railven]

ok I see........I would say both,devs cater to Nvidia because of their marketshare and Nvidia is catering to AAA tites as they should.

I think we are on the same page now sorry.

Haha, you totally confused.

Definitely think Nvidia targeting key titles is essentially what is winning them this GPU war.

Nvidia doesn't have to make EVERYONE use Greenworks, but again snagging certain titles locks in a good portion of that specific title's userbase.

 

[railven]

Well two things have to happen.
1.Nvidia will have to let AMD share in their hard work for free with the game developers. (not gonna happen)
2.AMD needs to develop their own Hairworks type stuff and work with developers better to have it released with AAA games.

You don't even have to factor in AMD. Hairworks is crippling performance on Nvidia hardware. I believe that is what Pauly is specifically talking about.

 

[maddie]

U are showing same old AMD complain with nothing but only complain.No real solution.

Only the solution was to lower the image quality to 16X tessellation.

In reality, the IQ did not improve by using 64X tesselation.

Please show me how multiple triangles in a single pixel improves IQ? I guess I'm too dumb to understand.

 

[happy medium]

Hairworks is crippling performance on Nvidia hardware.

Is it possible that Maxwell does better at some things Keplar/AMD can't?
I'm no gpu techy, just askin.

 

[maddie]

Anyone have ideas on how this will affect used card prices? One point raised by Nvidia buyers to justify paying more new, is the higher prices obtainable for used Nvidia cards. This situation should be making some question that previously safe assumption.

 

[SirPauly]

Well two things have to happen.
1.Nvidia will have to let AMD share in their hard work for free with the game developers. (not gonna happen)
2.AMD needs to develop their own Hairworks type stuff and work with developers better to have it released with AAA games.

Or, if there are enough vocal calls from the community and from developers nVidia may open up more GameWorks middlewares, like nVidia did with PhysX.

Is it really fair to use industry standards and the feature being brand agnostic to some degree and not allowing others to at least optimize fairly for their customers? Do no harm, nVidia says this a lot, but there is harm here to some degree and why some are vocal, including me.

It is nVidia's risk, innovation, resources, talents and don't desire to simply give away competitive advantages and it's easy for a forum poster like me to desire this to be more open but sure hope there are many more vocal calls from gamers and developers, so nVidia may rethink their strategies. Going to be tough on GPU related abilities, especially how important their ecosystem is.