For U.S Citizens Only: Do you support universal health care

[Ornery]

Is it true that Social Security was originally just a retirement program?

• Yes. Under the 1935 law, what we now think of as Social Security only paid retirement benefits to the primary worker. A 1939 change in the law added survivors benefits and benefits for the retiree's spouse and children. In 1956 disability benefits were added.
  
  Keep in mind, however, that the Social Security Act itself was much broader than just the program which today we commonly describe as "Social Security." The original 1935 law contained the first national unemployment compensation program, aid to the states for various health and welfare programs, and the Aid to Dependent Children program...

That's the bill of goods we were sold at the start. Now look what we're stuck with! :|

How about letting me the fvck out of it? No? Well, how about let's NOT start another goddamned program that I can't opt out of? :|

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Switzerland has a two tiered plan of public and private that seems to work real well. You can opt out or use public.

Do you have any more information about this system?

Here you go.. the full report is linked there too.
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2004/..._switzerlands_heal.php
I just statred studying UHC and am finding literally thousands of way of implementation.. Seems we set ours up to fail from the get go with no means testing, paying full retail, and keeping all the expensive layers that have nothing to do with HC...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Ornery
[L=Is it true that Social Security was originally just a retirement program?]

How about letting me the fvck out of it? No? Well, how about let's NOT start another goddamned program that I can't opt out of? :|

I don't pay SS O... You just got to structure income proper or work for a 403b.

 

[Ornery]

Fvck you, and your endless entitlement programs. Thank God the half the other blue state voters on this board aren't stupid enough to back Hillary's health care folly, or anything like it!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Fvck you, and your endless entitlement programs. Thank God the half the other blue state voters on this board aren't stupid enough to back Hillary's health care folly, or anything like it!

Let me make a humble suggestion to you. Why don't you see what if can't acquire the problem of paying progressive taxes, before complaining about it. When you have acquired that problem, why don't go find the nearest church, get on your knees and thank almighty God that you have that problem. The Rockefellers, and the Vanderbilts, and the Kennedy's were paying progressvie taxes back in the fifties when the high marginal rate was 90%, not the 36% it is today. They got by. Trust me, you will to. In the mean time, don't bitch that some people want some of the money back they have to pay in.

 

[Ornery]

I will NEVER vote for any leaders who would stick us with any programs the likes of SS. The sooner that abortion of a program is aborted, THE BETTER! There is absolutely no reason to think a national health care system would be any different. I AM the people who want some of the money back they have to pay in!

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
no way, that isn't in the constitution

leave that kind of crap to communist/socialist countries

Agreed

 

[imthebadguy]

mah im indifferent, my family's got money we have good insurance, prolly better than what can be offered universally

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I will NEVER vote for any leaders who would stick us with any programs the likes of SS. The sooner that abortion of a program is aborted, THE BETTER! There is absolutely no reason to think a national health care system would be any different. I AM the people who want some of the money back they have to pay in!

What do you do for a living that youre so damn obsessed over money?

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
I will NEVER vote for any leaders who would stick us with any programs the likes of SS. The sooner that abortion of a program is aborted, THE BETTER! There is absolutely no reason to think a national health care system would be any different. I AM the people who want some of the money back they have to pay in!

What do you do for a living that youre so damn obsessed over money?

I don't think he's obsessed over money, he just knows history and doesn't want to see it repeated.

 

[Ornery]

My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

Please. The problem with America is that they can't recognize a failure when they see one. And guess what, is it not greed that motivates these politicians to keep Social Security afloat? It's certainly not altruism. There is no "Trust Fund", it's all squandered by the politicians. Whether it be to buy votes, or to buy some high class call girls.

Social Security should be scrapped and there should be no debate on whether or not to have a National Health Care System. Social Security is obviously worthless, why should we expect any more from a National Health Care System?

 

[Ornery]

Greed put this country in it's place in this world, you're right. However, I'm frugal, which is nowhere near greedy. Seeing MY money wasted by the thousands of dollars per year just pisses me off like nothing else. Here I am buying things with coupons, shopping for the best prices, and wheeling & dealing to get the best bang for the buck, all the while thousands are being wasted in this stupid ass SS account! Son of a mutherfu....$^&^%&()^(^&$%$%#$%@#^$@#&^$%*^%^%^&^% :|

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Absolutely not.

Healthcare is not a right, and never will be.

Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy paying medical bills either. My insurance covers one pair of medically necessary contacts every 24 months. I've been through probably $3,000 in contacts in the last two years. All out of my own pocket.

But I still do not support public healthcare.

Oregon recently had a ballot measure for it, it got voted down by about 75% IIRC.

Viper GTS

Oregon? What the hell is that? A state? I think I was going to add it to my "States I Do Not Give A @!#$ About" list, but I probably forgot it existed or something.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

Please. The problem with America is that they can't recognize a failure when they see one. And guess what, is it not greed that motivates these politicians to keep Social Security afloat? It's certainly not altruism. There is no "Trust Fund", it's all squandered by the politicians. Whether it be to buy votes, or to buy some high class call girls.

Social Security should be scrapped and there should be no debate on whether or not to have a National Health Care System. Social Security is obviously worthless, why should we expect any more from a National Health Care System?

Well, isnt that greed on the part of politicians then?

Any sense of moderation is gone. Not sure if it ever was there, but its like theres no trying anymore.

I suppose our two party is partially to blame for it. Everything is black or white, liberal or convervative, left or right.

Free health care for everyone, or everyone pay their way! It DOESNT have to be black and white.

Our nation is already divided enough, and doing things like abolishing social security and not even considering some sort of basic health care for all citizens is not helping. Giving free total amazing perfect to all citizens is also not going to help anyone.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

Please. The problem with America is that they can't recognize a failure when they see one. And guess what, is it not greed that motivates these politicians to keep Social Security afloat? It's certainly not altruism. There is no "Trust Fund", it's all squandered by the politicians. Whether it be to buy votes, or to buy some high class call girls.

Social Security should be scrapped and there should be no debate on whether or not to have a National Health Care System. Social Security is obviously worthless, why should we expect any more from a National Health Care System?

Well, isnt that greed on the part of politicians then?

Any sense of moderation is gone. Not sure if it ever was there, but its like theres no trying anymore.

I suppose our two party is partially to blame for it. Everything is black or white, liberal or convervative, left or right.

Free health care for everyone, or everyone pay their way! It DOESNT have to be black and white.

Our nation is already divided enough, and doing things like abolishing social security and not even considering some sort of basic health care for all citizens is not helping. Giving free total amazing perfect to all citizens is also not going to help anyone.

I will never support a socialized health care system. Call me what you will, but it will inevitably end up to be a complete failure.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Greed put this country in it's place in this world, you're right. However, I'm frugal, which is nowhere near greedy. Seeing MY money wasted by the thousands of dollars per year just pisses me off like nothing else. Here I am buying things with coupons, shopping for the best prices, and wheeling & dealing to get the best bang for the buck, all the while thousands are being wasted in this stupid ass SS account! Son of a mutherfu....$^&^%&()^(^&$%$%#$%@#^$@#&^$%*^%^%^&^% :|

If youre putting thousands into social security every year, enough to double up your 401k at least, you have enough money, so you should stop acting like your livlihood is being taken from you. I'm as frugal as you are, but abolishing social security is only going to make living in this country worse.

But you dont care cause you dont need it. Is the system perfect? No...its pretty ridiculous. But it needs to be fixed/overhauled etc, not scrapped. Our nation is divided enough already. Making the poor poorer and the rich richer is only going to make that worse.

You should be glad you dont need it, and stop bitching.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

Please. The problem with America is that they can't recognize a failure when they see one. And guess what, is it not greed that motivates these politicians to keep Social Security afloat? It's certainly not altruism. There is no "Trust Fund", it's all squandered by the politicians. Whether it be to buy votes, or to buy some high class call girls.

Social Security should be scrapped and there should be no debate on whether or not to have a National Health Care System. Social Security is obviously worthless, why should we expect any more from a National Health Care System?

Well, isnt that greed on the part of politicians then?

Any sense of moderation is gone. Not sure if it ever was there, but its like theres no trying anymore.

I suppose our two party is partially to blame for it. Everything is black or white, liberal or convervative, left or right.

Free health care for everyone, or everyone pay their way! It DOESNT have to be black and white.

Our nation is already divided enough, and doing things like abolishing social security and not even considering some sort of basic health care for all citizens is not helping. Giving free total amazing perfect to all citizens is also not going to help anyone.

I will never support a socialized health care system. Call me what you will, but it will inevitably end up to be a complete failure.

Please do explain then, why it will *invariably* turn out to be a failure? What exactly are the terms be which we judge it to be a failure or a success?

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
Greed put this country in it's place in this world, you're right. However, I'm frugal, which is nowhere near greedy. Seeing MY money wasted by the thousands of dollars per year just pisses me off like nothing else. Here I am buying things with coupons, shopping for the best prices, and wheeling & dealing to get the best bang for the buck, all the while thousands are being wasted in this stupid ass SS account! Son of a mutherfu....$^&^%&()^(^&$%$%#$%@#^$@#&^$%*^%^%^&^% :|

If youre putting thousands into social security every year, enough to double up your 401k at least, you have enough money, so you should stop acting like your livlihood is being taken from you. I'm as frugal as you are, but abolishing social security is only going to make living in this country worse.

But you dont care cause you dont need it. Is the system perfect? No...its pretty ridiculous. But it needs to be fixed/overhauled etc, not scrapped. Our nation is divided enough already. Making the poor poorer and the rich richer is only going to make that worse.

You should be glad you dont need it, and stop bitching.

Yeah, we should all be happy that Ornery won "life's lottery". :roll:

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

Please. The problem with America is that they can't recognize a failure when they see one. And guess what, is it not greed that motivates these politicians to keep Social Security afloat? It's certainly not altruism. There is no "Trust Fund", it's all squandered by the politicians. Whether it be to buy votes, or to buy some high class call girls.

Social Security should be scrapped and there should be no debate on whether or not to have a National Health Care System. Social Security is obviously worthless, why should we expect any more from a National Health Care System?

Well, isnt that greed on the part of politicians then?

Any sense of moderation is gone. Not sure if it ever was there, but its like theres no trying anymore.

I suppose our two party is partially to blame for it. Everything is black or white, liberal or convervative, left or right.

Free health care for everyone, or everyone pay their way! It DOESNT have to be black and white.

Our nation is already divided enough, and doing things like abolishing social security and not even considering some sort of basic health care for all citizens is not helping. Giving free total amazing perfect to all citizens is also not going to help anyone.

I will never support a socialized health care system. Call me what you will, but it will inevitably end up to be a complete failure.

Please do explain then, why it will *invariably* turn out to be a failure? What exactly are the terms be which we judge it to be a failure or a success?

Billions upon billions wasted.

I don't know about you, but when I think of government, I don't think of efficiency. It's easy to waste money when it's not yours.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
Greed put this country in it's place in this world, you're right. However, I'm frugal, which is nowhere near greedy. Seeing MY money wasted by the thousands of dollars per year just pisses me off like nothing else. Here I am buying things with coupons, shopping for the best prices, and wheeling & dealing to get the best bang for the buck, all the while thousands are being wasted in this stupid ass SS account! Son of a mutherfu....$^&^%&()^(^&$%$%#$%@#^$@#&^$%*^%^%^&^% :|

If youre putting thousands into social security every year, enough to double up your 401k at least, you have enough money, so you should stop acting like your livlihood is being taken from you. I'm as frugal as you are, but abolishing social security is only going to make living in this country worse.

But you dont care cause you dont need it. Is the system perfect? No...its pretty ridiculous. But it needs to be fixed/overhauled etc, not scrapped. Our nation is divided enough already. Making the poor poorer and the rich richer is only going to make that worse.

You should be glad you dont need it, and stop bitching.

Yeah, we should all be happy that Ornery won "life's lottery". :roll:

WTF is that supposed to mean?

 

[Ornery]

Bull fvcking shlt! The OP wants to know whether I support universal health care or not, and I assume he'd like to know why, or why not as well. I've got every damn right to bitch about the way MY money is squandered! To lie down and let the bleeding hearts squander even more would be pretty damn STUPID on my part.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Ornery
My 401K could be several times higher, if my employer or I could put the SS contribution in it, instead. But no, that's not an option. :|

Now, imagine that same amount of money, or more, being squandered in a national health care program, that you're stuck paying into whether you want to or not. Oh yeah, that's just the kind of thought that make me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :roll:

So then, you are obsessed over money. THAT is the real problem in america today, our greed.

Please. The problem with America is that they can't recognize a failure when they see one. And guess what, is it not greed that motivates these politicians to keep Social Security afloat? It's certainly not altruism. There is no "Trust Fund", it's all squandered by the politicians. Whether it be to buy votes, or to buy some high class call girls.

Social Security should be scrapped and there should be no debate on whether or not to have a National Health Care System. Social Security is obviously worthless, why should we expect any more from a National Health Care System?

Well, isnt that greed on the part of politicians then?

Any sense of moderation is gone. Not sure if it ever was there, but its like theres no trying anymore.

I suppose our two party is partially to blame for it. Everything is black or white, liberal or convervative, left or right.

Free health care for everyone, or everyone pay their way! It DOESNT have to be black and white.

Our nation is already divided enough, and doing things like abolishing social security and not even considering some sort of basic health care for all citizens is not helping. Giving free total amazing perfect to all citizens is also not going to help anyone.

I will never support a socialized health care system. Call me what you will, but it will inevitably end up to be a complete failure.

Please do explain then, why it will *invariably* turn out to be a failure? What exactly are the terms be which we judge it to be a failure or a success?

Billions upon billions wasted.

I don't know about you, but when I think of government, I don't think of efficiency. It's easy to waste money when it's not yours.

I certainly dont think of efficiency either. But how would providing *BASIC*, preventative above all, not full healthcare, to all americans be a waste of money?

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Bull fvcking shlt! The OP wants to know whether I support universal health care or not, and I assume he'd like to know why, or why not as well. I've got every damn right to bitch about the way MY money is squandered! To lie down and let the bleeding hearts squander even more would be pretty damn STUPID on my part.

Ouch. Are you such a hardass in real life or do you just play one here?

I get the impression that if you saw a thirsty man on the street, youd give him some water in the form of your spit, because for whatever reason he's thirsty, its his fault, he should have known better.