Mmm hmm, it takes from everyone. Are you saying the rich don't deserve what they put in? If that's the case, why not just call it yet another tax on the rich instead of trying to masquerade it as a "National Retirement Program"?
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
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Here is a start....
1) Abolish Social Security. Those who don't plan for their own future, suffer. Period. Not the fault of the rest of us. Or work at McDonalds. If a 16 yr old can do it, a 65 yr old can do it (as I have seen actually).
2) Abolish welfare. It is one of the biggest mistakes in the economic history of this country.
3) Abolish minimum wage. Paying more and more for what are considered bottom class jobs just sucks out incentives to improve oneself in American society, bankrupts business or makes prices higher for the rest of us, contributes to inflation, and closes the gap between low quality jobs and high quality jobs, making the good jobs not so good anymore when you can work at McDonalds with a GED for $50 an hour.
4) Abolish illegal immigration. Without welfare and handouts and other free incentives, this problem will take care of itself, and the remaining immigrants will be the ones who just want work and the American dream, while the government milk suckers won't have anything to gain and have no reason to come here.
5) Lazy Americans, without welfare and other handouts, will be forced to starve or take over the cheap jobs left behind by illegal workers; thus contrary to the belief of Kalifornians, we don't *need* illegal labor to make our economy thrive. If not for welfare, etc., there would be floods of Americans needing and flocking to those jobs. Whether they are content or not is up to them; flip burgers for the rest of your life and pay bills, or aspire to get out. It?s as simple as that.
6) Privatize all government industries (i.e.: electric, etc) and allow government to participate in the free market to make profit (under the same rules of fairness as everyone else). This will have the two fold effect of eliminating the need for income taxes (subsidized by the profits) and causing those industries to run more efficiently and more cost effective (now that there is something at stake!)
7) Abolish personal income taxes. Without welfare and social security to drain the government finances, and with a new source of government revenue generated by private business, income taxes will not be needed.
8) Better economy with more money in ALL private hands, and more opportunities for ALL.
That is the best way to achieve a more equitable economy. LESS government, not MORE!!!!! I don?t see why people still don?t understand this?
1) Abolish Social Security. Those who don't plan for their own future, suffer. Period. Not the fault of the rest of us. Or work at McDonalds. If a 16 yr old can do it, a 65 yr old can do it (as I have seen actually).
2) Abolish welfare. It is one of the biggest mistakes in the economic history of this country.
3) Abolish minimum wage. Paying more and more for what are considered bottom class jobs just sucks out incentives to improve oneself in American society, bankrupts business or makes prices higher for the rest of us, contributes to inflation, and closes the gap between low quality jobs and high quality jobs, making the good jobs not so good anymore when you can work at McDonalds with a GED for $50 an hour.
4) Abolish illegal immigration. Without welfare and handouts and other free incentives, this problem will take care of itself, and the remaining immigrants will be the ones who just want work and the American dream, while the government milk suckers won't have anything to gain and have no reason to come here.
5) Lazy Americans, without welfare and other handouts, will be forced to starve or take over the cheap jobs left behind by illegal workers; thus contrary to the belief of Kalifornians, we don't *need* illegal labor to make our economy thrive. If not for welfare, etc., there would be floods of Americans needing and flocking to those jobs. Whether they are content or not is up to them; flip burgers for the rest of your life and pay bills, or aspire to get out. It?s as simple as that.
6) Privatize all government industries (i.e.: electric, etc) and allow government to participate in the free market to make profit (under the same rules of fairness as everyone else). This will have the two fold effect of eliminating the need for income taxes (subsidized by the profits) and causing those industries to run more efficiently and more cost effective (now that there is something at stake!)
7) Abolish personal income taxes. Without welfare and social security to drain the government finances, and with a new source of government revenue generated by private business, income taxes will not be needed.
8) Better economy with more money in ALL private hands, and more opportunities for ALL.
That is the best way to achieve a more equitable economy. LESS government, not MORE!!!!! I don?t see why people still don?t understand this?
http://www.economist.com/images/20041218/CIN210.gif
A Big Mac is 50% more expensive in Sweden. Clearly the quality of living is much better in the US...
FICA tax hits the poor the hardest and gives the money to the group that controls the most wealth in this country. do you seriously believe that most seniors believed the government that SS is enough? They put money into 401k's and now it grew into a nice nest egg.
Do I think most seniors think SS is enough? Before they collect, most do. When they retire and start collecting, they want more. That's why SS can be used as a tool for political gain for political parties.
While i am a Canadian and a strong advocate of universal healthcare (yes i could afford to pay for it), i say no to implementing it at this time in the states. My reason is that americans are too fat, if you could bring the weight down on many of the poeple im sure it would be very affordable to do. I would say this should be one of the most important things that people and both the states and canada should do, it would save millions.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
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I'm not sure how to deal with that. My first instinct is to agree with you, but my better judgment says that if I truly believe in the free market system than those people are entitled to working those jobs at the lowest price if they so desire; call it fair competition, supply and demand.
It is then up to us as American's to better ourselves so we don't need those jobs or somehow justify the higher pay in US dollars (Dell can certainly justify this after the poor support they gave customers by outsourcing to India; I hear they brought that back to the US?). Most of those jobs are some form of cheap labor, like phone tech support where even in America they hire 100 people at a time and train them en masse like monkeys. Worried about your job? Maybe getting a degree or something a little more significant than the 30 days training that job would give you and make yourself invaluable. In other words if you don't want to be a trained monkey or loose your job to a cheaper trained monkey overseas, make yourself more useful than one and pick up some skills that you simply cannot train a monkey to do. This would require vigilance and determination however, not just sitting on ass for years content, getting a paycheck.
Personally, I've set my sights higher and I could care less about ever being a phone slut again......
Good thing too since the defense and farming industries wouldn't be happy if their gravy train got split 3 ways! Not to mentional all the other corporate welfare. On behalf of corporate America, I thank you.
2) Abolish only welfare for the poor or abolish corporate welfare as well? Welfare for the poor (food stamps, etc) is a tiny tiny tiny tiny TINY fraction of what corporations receive in "welfare."
6) Con Edison is a government agency? News to me.
7) Ummmmmmm, Uhhhhhhh, Whhhhaaaaaaaa? You want the government to start selling stuff? What? Electricity? Mmmkay. So instead of having them run it cheap and efficiently and have them charge us enough to cover costs, they are going to charge us more (i.e. profit) and that will replace all income taxes? That sounds like tax to me! Not only that, but it sounds like Mary, who is raising a family on $15k a year is paying the exact same in taxes as Bob who makes $25,000,000 a year. Nice tax scheme you worked out there
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
Ask Nader if its a good idea.....then once he bores you to death, you won't care anymore seeing as you are dead.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Originally posted by: Lifted
2) Abolish only welfare for the poor or abolish corporate welfare as well? Welfare for the poor (food stamps, etc) is a tiny tiny tiny tiny TINY fraction of what corporations receive in "welfare."
6) Con Edison is a government agency? News to me.
7) Ummmmmmm, Uhhhhhhh, Whhhhaaaaaaaa? You want the government to start selling stuff? What? Electricity? Mmmkay. So instead of having them run it cheap and efficiently and have them charge us enough to cover costs, they are going to charge us more (i.e. profit) and that will replace all income taxes? That sounds like tax to me! Not only that, but it sounds like Mary, who is raising a family on $15k a year is paying the exact same in taxes as Bob who makes $25,000,000 a year. Nice tax scheme you worked out there
2) Abolish all forms of welfare. Companies that can't survive on their own are not profitable or efficient enough to deserve to exist. Take the airline industry for example. Following the event's of 9/11, several of the bigger airlines whined and cried to daddy government to pay their bills of they would go out of business. Several smaller airlines were booming in business at the same time and were extremely profitable. Government subsides, be it personal or corporate, only promote inefficient use of resources and poor management.
6) I don't know what that is? This is obviously getting better and we are seeing more privatization and deregulation of industries once run by government agencies. Utilities, postal service, etc. are just some examples. Did you know UPS and FedEx are 'allowed' to exist and conduct business because they handle large volumes of air mail for USPS as emergency mail? Did you know that USPS can revoke their right to conduct business at any time they feel like it without reason? Nobody else can compete with USPS because it is a government guaranteed monopoly. Tell me that some private entrepreneur out there couldn?t figure out a way to delivery mail for less than .37 a letter and make profit?
7) No it would not be tax. The government would be bound by the same rules of competition as everyone else and spend that revenue however they needed. If you pay $3.00 for a cheese burger made by a burger stand owned by Joe Entrepreneur, a private business owner, or owned by Uncle Sam, it?s still a $3.00 cheeseburger. How is this tax? Currently the US government is barred from conducting business for profit in their own self interest. What I propose would be no different from any other private corporation, except instead of the revenues belonging to some corporate entity; it would belong to the government. If the price of something was too high, consumers would seek alternatives, forcing the government's private companies to remain competitive and cost efficient, or seek alternative means of generating revenue if they couldn?t compete. With all the businesses the government owns right now (utilities, USPS, etc) if these became private corporations belonging to the government... convert them to efficient and profitable businesses, not only would it be enough profit revenue to replace personal income tax, it would also keep prices down and quality of service up due to competition. Also, since any decisions would affect the government?s revenue and needing more money wouldn?t be as simple as raising taxes all the time and making us foot the bill. It would be in the government?s best interest to stay efficient and cost effective and spend their money wisely; something currently accepted to be impossible. If a CEO was doing poorly and driving the company into the ground, they would be fired and replaced, just like the ?real? world. Contrast this with out the government currently runs things without profit incentive: just raise the price of stamps without competition or raise taxes, etc.
Note in my response for 6 and 7 seem to contradict each other but note the significant difference in the current way government runs things (6) in those industries (high prices, inefficient, and no profit) vs. being allowed to be just another company in the business and make profit (7). The same incentives that make capitolism work for the rest of us should apply to the government as well.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,545
- 20,241
- 146
A note on the myth that is "corporate welfare."
The vast majority of what liberals deride as "corporate welfare" are really just tax breaks. Take tax breaks out of the equation and "corporate welfare" becomes a far smaller problem.
I am of the opinion that corporate/business taxes should be abolished. They are, in all cases, passed on directly to the consumer and are really just a back-door tax on the people. Also, they make our companies less competitive on the world market. Do that, and end all handouts to companies and we'll end the "corporate welfare" hype once and for all.
The vast majority of what liberals deride as "corporate welfare" are really just tax breaks. Take tax breaks out of the equation and "corporate welfare" becomes a far smaller problem.
I am of the opinion that corporate/business taxes should be abolished. They are, in all cases, passed on directly to the consumer and are really just a back-door tax on the people. Also, they make our companies less competitive on the world market. Do that, and end all handouts to companies and we'll end the "corporate welfare" hype once and for all.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
I am starting to extend beyond my economics knowledge to be comfortable here, but I am wondering where the government would generate the revenue needed operate if not for some kind of tax.
I'm thinking it would be more acceptable to have a corporate income tax and abolish personal income tax. A corporation is just a entity on paper that you get after paying the $10 registration fee or whatever it is. People need to eat, etc. Corporations, in the sense I just pointed out, do not.
If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure corporate income taxes make up an extremely significantly larger portion of government revenue than personal income taxes?
I'm open to other ideas though, if it's possible to eliminate both personal and corporate income tax, but I don't see where else the government could raise that kind of money even with their hand in private business.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,545
- 20,241
- 146
If you want a usage tax, pass a usage tax. Corporate taxes are back-door usage taxes on the consumer. How about a national sales tax?
The problem with corporate taxes is that they make us less competitive on the world market. In fact, in trade negotiations, many high tax countries will complain about low tax countries having an "unfair" advantage (no such thing) in international trade.
So bring it out in the open as a sales tax, and give our companies an edge overseas.
Again, corporate taxes are not paid by the rich, by share holders, or by CEOs. They are paid by the consumer. So passing more or raising corporate taxes will NOT "stick it to the rich." In fact, back-door consumer taxes hurt the poor far more than they hurt the rich. And making our companies less competitive overseas means fewer jobs here at home.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
That seems like it would work, has it been tested anywhere?
I can see what you are saying about corporation passing it on, so even if there wasn't a personal income tax and we didn't see that FICA and FWH, we would still be personally paying taxes out of our NET income due to the corporate tax, passed on our not ... essentially the money comes from the same place one way or another: our pockets.
At least with a flat and open national sales tax, there is no discrepancy or hiding or fudging of numbers.
Very interested, this isn?t the first time I?ve heard of something like this.
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