For those who oppose any action against Iran

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
As long as it's not us doing it ... I could give a rats ass.

But the sad part it really is us doing it since we sold them the weapons to do it with and you have an dip shit like bush in the back ground say "DO IT" "DO IT"

Not only that you got an idiot like Rice saying if they attack our allies we will attack... It just get's more amusing by the second.

So, if Israel attacks and Iran attacks back guess what? We are in a war....... Back to square one. I think that is how they are going to open the war on this one. It's only a matter of time now.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Well interesting that you mention that Samur. Seems it was largely premature and we just had a thread saying the yellow cake uranium that could make the reactor operational was never processed. And now is belatedly being shipped out of Iraq where it was stored for all these years. Which implies that at the time of the bombing in 1981, teh Iraqis lacked the equipment to enrich the Yellowcake to even low grade reactor fuel.

And now Sammy, the same little model will not work with Iran, they learned from your lesson and buried nuclear sites far too stuff deep. And if Israel goes against the IAEA
and tries a pre emptive strike on Iran, Israel is going to get its head handed to them by the international community for no real gain. Because Iran is too big and too far away to be damaged by Israel.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Iraq was a country that was invading their neighbors and was ruled by a dictator that wanted to control the entire Middle East.

Iran is a nation that just wants to be an Islamic regime where the U.S has no power to tell them what to do like they do every other nation.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Before we draw lines, let's remember that late last year the US intelligence community said that Iran is not even producing a nuke. Whether I personally believe that or not, I will certainly side with that than the mad president himself, given his track history.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Before we draw lines, let's remember that late last year the US intelligence community said that Iran is not even producing a nuke.
-sip-

That's not what the report said. It can be said that is how the MSM intially tried to characterize the leaked parts they got in advance. But we later saw the report when it was published.

It said they didn't know. That is quite a bit different than the media's characterization that they did KNOW and what they knew was that Iran was NOT pusuing nukes.

Fern
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Thankfully GWB will fall into the scrap bin of History by 1/20/2009. The almost equally nutty but far less powerful Ahmadinejad's date with the scrap bin is 8/2009. As it is, he is a deeply unpopular Iranian national embarrassment.

What ever will we do thereafter for idiot entertainment once the two stooges are gone?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Thankfully GWB will fall into the scrap bin of History by 1/20/2009. The almost equally nutty but far less powerful Ahmadinejad's date with the scrap bin is 8/2009. As it is, he is a deeply unpopular Iranian national embarrassment.

What ever will we do thereafter for idiot entertainment once the two stooges are gone?

There still is Congress!

And other world leaders will want their 15 minutes of fame.

 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,900
63
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Before we draw lines, let's remember that late last year the US intelligence community said that Iran is not even producing a nuke.
-sip-

That's not what the report said. It can be said that is how the MSM intially tried to characterize the leaked parts they got in advance. But we later saw the report when it was published.

It said they didn't know. That is quite a bit different than the media's characterization that they did KNOW and what they knew was that Iran was NOT pusuing nukes.

Fern

Well if they dont know I would rather not waste few more trillion and several thousand more deaths to find out that MSM was right.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Aimster
Iraq was a country that was invading their neighbors and was ruled by a dictator that wanted to control the entire Middle East.

Iran is a nation that just wants to be an Islamic regime where the U.S has no power to tell them what to do like they do every other nation.

LOL....

yes yes and when Saddam realized that superior technology isn't going to beat out numbers, especially when you are not on home court, a truce was offered.

I wonder what Iran thought of the repeated offers for a truce? ;) That whole "we demand an Islamic Republic in Iraq" type of thing, you know :p

Let us be honest about history, yes yes?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: cliftonite
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Before we draw lines, let's remember that late last year the US intelligence community said that Iran is not even producing a nuke.
-sip-

That's not what the report said. It can be said that is how the MSM intially tried to characterize the leaked parts they got in advance. But we later saw the report when it was published.

It said they didn't know. That is quite a bit different than the media's characterization that they did KNOW and what they knew was that Iran was NOT pusuing nukes.

Fern

Well if they dont know I would rather not waste few more trillion and several thousand more deaths to find out that MSM was right.
Why, it worked out well in Iran.

I recall that they "knew" Iran was working toward a nuke but that now it no longer was. That is less than "they were, but now we don't know", though in either case slim pickings for a case for war.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Even if the 1981 Israeli strike against Iraq might be justifiable, Israel should not think it will infinitely going to be able to repeat the trick. Not when some 40 other nations are joining Iran and petitioning the IAEA for permits to start their own nuclear power generation programs.

Israel is nutso if it thinks anyone will pay attention to any Israeli political correctness seal of approval or veto at the IAEA. As it is Iran is seeming having difficulties in even getting Uranium enriched to low grade reactor fuel levels, which means Iran could not even produce its first nuke until 2014 or beyond, and with proper diplomacy, Iran may not even opt to ever become a nuclear weapons power at all. In terms of Iran's military, they can't seriously threaten Israel in any way.

So why all the Israeli sky is falling panic? Meanwhile your PM is likely to fall into the dustbin of history even sooner than GWB over corruption scandals, Israel still has not solved the Palestinian questions that have plagued it since 1948, and Israel is now deeply divided and realizing its strategy can't work much longer after failing for 60 long years.

When Israel gets real and has a better less neighbor hostile strategy, things might not looks so bad. But as they say in the old song, you can't always get what you want, you can't always get what you want.
 

libs0n

Member
May 16, 2005
197
0
76
Well, first and foremost the Israeli strike was on a facility that was a part of Iraq's civilian nuclear power program. Some more points:

1. The design of Osirak was not well suited for plutonium production.

2. It was to be continually monitored throughout operation so that plutonium would not be produced and diverted to a weapons program.

3. The strike prompted Saddam to greatly expand his nuclear weapon program.

4. It drove that program underground.

5. The true extent of that underground program was not discovered and dismantled until post-Gulf War.

***

So this is what I think of the Israeli strike. Operation of the Osirak reactor would not have resulted in the acquisition of nuclear arms, or even greatly helped it. The strike itself accelerated Iraqi acquisition of nuclear arms due to the consequential expansion of Saddam's nuclear program, outside the eye of the international community. If Saddam didn't screw up by invading Kuwait, he would be nuclear, sooner than if the strike had not occurred.

***

I say the lessons of the strike are the opposite of what you believe them to be. Iran is building a civilian nuclear power program, under IAEA inspections. A strike on it will prompt them to change their policy aims and acquire nuclear weapons. A strike will drive that program underground, and that program will result in its intended aim. A strike will not delay the acquisition of nuclear arms by Iran, but only ensure it.

But this isn't Iraq in the eighties. We can only surmise what the blowback of an attack will be, but its is likely to be severe, in the oil price shock alone. The consequences of action in this manner worse than no action, to say nothing of its criminality.
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,015
1
0
I don't oppose "any" action against Iran, just any action that involves Bush or happens before he is out of office. Beyond that, all options are on the table...but not until the 6-year-old Cowboy Bob whos already fvcked up two wars takes his coloring book and crayons back to Texas.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: ericlp
As long as it's not us doing it ... I could give a rats ass.

But the sad part it really is us doing it since we sold them the weapons to do it with and you have an dip shit like bush in the back ground say "DO IT" "DO IT"

Not only that you got an idiot like Rice saying if they attack our allies we will attack... It just get's more amusing by the second.

So, if Israel attacks and Iran attacks back guess what? We are in a war....... Back to square one. I think that is how they are going to open the war on this one. It's only a matter of time now.

If I am friends with someone and share the same interests and sell someone a gun, and 20 years later they go crazy and threaten to kill a bunch of people. Is it my fault?
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
I think this issue should be separated in two -

#1 Whether the West can live with a nuclear Iran
#2 Whether Iran is really going to get nuclear

#2 is subject to interpretation as no one outside intelligence circles can't know for a fact what they are up to - and even those in these circles aren't always sure.
But, what about #1? Will the world be a safer place in the day after Iran has nuclear weapons? Even the Europeans are either actively promoting a preemptive attack or just sit quiet on the matter. No one wants a nuclear rogue country in their back yard.

For them, a nuclear Iran is like a nuclear Venezuela for the US. Would anyone here support Chavez getting nukes?

 

Toonces

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2000
1,690
0
76
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: ericlp
As long as it's not us doing it ... I could give a rats ass.

But the sad part it really is us doing it since we sold them the weapons to do it with and you have an dip shit like bush in the back ground say "DO IT" "DO IT"

Not only that you got an idiot like Rice saying if they attack our allies we will attack... It just get's more amusing by the second.

So, if Israel attacks and Iran attacks back guess what? We are in a war....... Back to square one. I think that is how they are going to open the war on this one. It's only a matter of time now.

If I am friends with someone and share the same interests and sell someone a gun, and 20 years later they go crazy and threaten to kill a bunch of people. Is it my fault?

Apple, meet orange.

$3,000,000,000 every year for 23 years is a lot of guns.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last time I checked, they know how to read in Iran. So they are reading the same links in Iran. And the way they will read it is GWB sics his Israeli dog on Iran. And rather than just
kill the dog, one can kill the dog owner. And the quickest way to make GWB howl is to flood
Iraq with quality anti tank and anti personnel weapons. Of course Iran will also shut down the Persian gulf and not an oil tank will move un sunk for years. Within minutes of any Israel strike you can bet oil prices will go past $500 a barrel and head for $1500 as every oil base economy heads into an instant depression.

But that is exactly how dumb our President is and why he is heading for the Hague. As for Israel, and angry world will dismantle it brick by brick if necessary.

But then again its still all talk and no action yet, better sense should prevail, it should not cause more than a $10.00 rise in the price of oil. That is fairly cheap in the saber rattle department.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: toonces
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: ericlp
As long as it's not us doing it ... I could give a rats ass.

But the sad part it really is us doing it since we sold them the weapons to do it with and you have an dip shit like bush in the back ground say "DO IT" "DO IT"

Not only that you got an idiot like Rice saying if they attack our allies we will attack... It just get's more amusing by the second.

So, if Israel attacks and Iran attacks back guess what? We are in a war....... Back to square one. I think that is how they are going to open the war on this one. It's only a matter of time now.

If I am friends with someone and share the same interests and sell someone a gun, and 20 years later they go crazy and threaten to kill a bunch of people. Is it my fault?

Apple, meet orange.

$3,000,000,000 every year for 23 years is a lot of guns.

Of course the amounts are different, we are talking about nations not individuals, the point still stands though.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,799
6,775
126
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. It's not really very smart in the long run for a few million people to push around a billion or so. Time wounds all heals. Israel should have supported the Arab people themselves to overthrow their dictatorships and establish democracies.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
Moonbeam, in the Middle East, support of any leader by Israel (or the US for the matter) is a kiss of death - the common people are so badly brainwashed, any support for one of their guys done by Israel automatically makes him a traitor.

Besides, who said Democracy is good for the Arab world? I think what happened in Iraq goes to show that in these parts of the world, people need an iron fist.