For those that refuse to believe in UFO's

[So]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: RossGr
Time travelers are more likly then ET. The energy requirement is essentially the same but a time traveler would not have to find this fleck of dust on the galactic beach we call earth, they would already be here.

No they wouldn't already be ehre. The earth moves very fast through space. I don't know how long it takes us to go around our galaxy, but if you come from the future you're going to end up very far from where earth is right now.

Indeed. They would have had to of mastered both time travel AND space travel. However, on a similar note, those two things are intimately intertwined. I think that based on the discoveries we've made into both fields, it's quite possible that you must master one to master the other, and vice-versa.

So, based on that (if it's true), the chances of these UFOs being ETs from our time or distant relatives from the future are both equal.

I firmly think that the probability that we're alone in the closest 1,000 to 100,000 light years to our star is approaching zero, much less the entire galaxy or universe. Whether or not these strange objects are of different origin than our own government(s) is a very debatable issue, though.

There is one thing I am 100% sure of. That is that our governments know a lot more than they're telling us. A LOT more.

Let me repeat, SPACE TRAVEL is not the same thing as FASTER THAN LIGHT travel. We could plausibly explore the galaxy with robotic probes and no FTL travel, in a "relatively" short time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_Probe

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: RossGr
Time travelers are more likly then ET. The energy requirement is essentially the same but a time traveler would not have to find this fleck of dust on the galactic beach we call earth, they would already be here.

No they wouldn't already be ehre. The earth moves very fast through space. I don't know how long it takes us to go around our galaxy, but if you come from the future you're going to end up very far from where earth is right now.

Indeed. They would have had to of mastered both time travel AND space travel. However, on a similar note, those two things are intimately intertwined. I think that based on the discoveries we've made into both fields, it's quite possible that you must master one to master the other, and vice-versa.

So, based on that (if it's true), the chances of these UFOs being ETs from our time or distant relatives from the future are both equal.

I firmly think that the probability that we're alone in the closest 1,000 to 100,000 light years to our star is approaching zero, much less the entire galaxy or universe. Whether or not these strange objects are of different origin than our own government(s) is a very debatable issue, though.

There is one thing I am 100% sure of. That is that our governments know a lot more than they're telling us. A LOT more.

Let me repeat, SPACE TRAVEL is not the same thing as FASTER THAN LIGHT travel. We could plausibly explore the galaxy with robotic probes and no FTL travel, in a "relatively" short time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_Probe

I know it's not the same thing, I was speaking of the act of "bending" space time or completely exiting it, and then almost instantly appearing at your destination. The same theories can be used to play with time, well, in theory.

Edit: The entire idea of replicating machines sounds like a bad idea, to me. Also, the technology needed for such a system would probably be around as difficult to develop as the technology needed for puncturing the fabric of space and skipping the distance in between your origin and destination.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: zinfamous
I'll believe in USO's first. It seems far more plausible, in my mind, to imagine that the deep unexplored ocean trenches have been harboring an extra-terrestrial civilization, and this civilization's mucky-muck is a more likely explanation for the origin of life on our planet than is some benevolent sky fairy.

I saw it all on "The Abyss."

But where did their civilization come from in the first place

from their previously shattered home planet, duh.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
As large as the universe is, its a certainty that another intelligent species exists somewhere.

A gross mis-understanding of the nature of probability.

As large as the universe is, it is merely highly PROBABLE that other intelligent life-forms exist. The probability approaches but does not equal one. Regardless of the probability, it remains possible that we are the only intelligent beings in all of space-time and it is absolutely not "certain" that other intelligent beings exist.

ZV

 

[So]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Edit: The entire idea of replicating machines sounds like a bad idea, to me. Also, the technology needed for such a system would probably be around as difficult to develop as the technology needed for puncturing the fabric of space and skipping the distance in between your origin and destination.

What? Your "space bending" "theories" (i.e. hypotheses) all depend on speculative ideas that are not withing the realm of current scientific fact. Von Neumann machines require good engineering. How are the two problems equal in difficulty?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Bateluer
As large as the universe is, its a certainty that another intelligent species exists somewhere.

A gross mis-understanding of the nature of probability.

As large as the universe is, it is merely highly PROBABLE that other intelligent life-forms exist. The probability approaches but does not equal one. Regardless of the probability, it remains possible that we are the only intelligent beings in all of space-time and it is absolutely not "certain" that other intelligent beings exist.

ZV

Oh sure, but it's also possible that our entire universe and all its inhabitants, laws and dimensions (including all of our memories and all the fossils that provide "evidence" that there was indeed a past) spontaneously "happened" with no provocation no more than 10 of our earth years ago. The probability of this happening approaches zero, much in the same (see: opposite) way the probability of *intelligent* life in other places besides earth approaches one.

Hehe, I'm reading "Fabric of the Cosmos" right now. Can you tell?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: manowar821

Edit: The entire idea of replicating machines sounds like a bad idea, to me. Also, the technology needed for such a system would probably be around as difficult to develop as the technology needed for puncturing the fabric of space and skipping the distance in between your origin and destination.

What? Your "space bending" "theories" (i.e. hypotheses) all depend on speculative ideas that are not withing the realm of current scientific fact. Von Neumann machines require good engineering. How are the two problems equal in difficulty?

Eh, I guess. I thought I had read that it was insanely diffucult to do so. Dammit, where did I read that?

 

[Vic]

Space and time are the 2 parts of the same thing. You can't travel through space without traveling through time, not even if you're just going to the bathroom.

There are virtually no compelling scientific arguments in favor of advanced alien species visiting earth. The Drake Equation is about the possibility of life OUT THERE, not visiting here. The universe, for at its ~13 billion years of existence, is still in its relative infancy. Our sun itself is a 3rd generation star (Population I), which is the minimum necessary for life as we know it to exist. Most of the stars known probably have planets but are unsuitable for supporting life as we know it, being either small, cool red dwarfs (~85% of the known galaxy), binary (or more) systems, or non-main sequence (short-lived, hostile radiation, etc.).
Consider the threat of global warming on earth. A couple of degrees difference in a century or 2 and life is threatened. Now consider the necessary conditions required for billions of years in order for life to evolve.

And all that doesn't even touch upon the fact that faster than light travel is considered impossible by most of science, or that slower than light travel would be so slow as to require decades just to reach the nearest star systems.

 

[Modular]

If you puncture a hole in space-time, it will suck us all into it's void and spit us back out at the exit only to suck us back in again ahhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[So]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: manowar821

Edit: The entire idea of replicating machines sounds like a bad idea, to me. Also, the technology needed for such a system would probably be around as difficult to develop as the technology needed for puncturing the fabric of space and skipping the distance in between your origin and destination.

What? Your "space bending" "theories" (i.e. hypotheses) all depend on speculative ideas that are not withing the realm of current scientific fact. Von Neumann machines require good engineering. How are the two problems equal in difficulty?

Eh, I guess. I thought I had read that it was insanely diffucult to do so. Dammit, where did I read that?

Building von-neumann machines on the nanoscale ("grey goo") is insanely difficult to do right now, but given interstellar probes, there is no reason for it to be smaller than a school bus, and it could be as large as a small city. Especially given the likely mode of interstellar propulsion, the "bussard ramjet"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Bateluer
As large as the universe is, its a certainty that another intelligent species exists somewhere.

A gross mis-understanding of the nature of probability.

As large as the universe is, it is merely highly PROBABLE that other intelligent life-forms exist. The probability approaches but does not equal one. Regardless of the probability, it remains possible that we are the only intelligent beings in all of space-time and it is absolutely not "certain" that other intelligent beings exist.

ZV

Oh sure, but it's also possible that our entire universe and all its inhabitants, laws and dimensions (including all of our memories and all the fossils that provide "evidence" that there was indeed a past) spontaneously "happened" with no provocation no more than 10 of our earth years ago. The probability of this happening approaches zero, much in the same (see: opposite) way the probability of *intelligent* life in other places besides earth approaches one.

Hehe, I'm reading "Fabric of the Cosmos" right now. Can you tell?

Not even getting into the multitude of theories regarding the nature of time... that probability of intelligent life existing elsewhere in the universe does not mean that they come visiting us in their spaceships.

 

[dennilfloss]

The Belgian UFO wave of 1989-1993 is the most intriguing for me.

http://ufologie.net/htm/belgium.htm

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
The Belgian UFO wave of 1989-1993 is the most intriguing for me.

LOL, that's one of those things you say and then just gotta reflect on how awesomely geeky it sounds.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Some people are so gullible. Fools.

To think those vids are real... sure. To think that life only exists here? Not so sure about that one.

you say the NASA videos and audios are fake?

Are you saying that they prove anything? People said they saw some things that they couldn't identify, period. How do you make the leap from "what was that?" to "it's visitors from another planet"?

no if you watched the youtube videos there are several audio recording where ASTRONAUTS said "the alien spacecraft is following us" or "i am watching a UFO" they just didnt see "some things" they clearly identified what they saw as alien spacecraft.

cocaine is a hell of a drug?

i suggest you stop using it and seek help.

 

[FoBoT]

dude, it is too far


too many miles/light years between planets


i think their are other planets with life and stuff, but they can't come here, it is tooooooooooooooo far away

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Some people are so gullible. Fools.

To think those vids are real... sure. To think that life only exists here? Not so sure about that one.

you say the NASA videos and audios are fake?

Are you saying that they prove anything? People said they saw some things that they couldn't identify, period. How do you make the leap from "what was that?" to "it's visitors from another planet"?

no if you watched the youtube videos there are several audio recording where ASTRONAUTS said "the alien spacecraft is following us" or "i am watching a UFO" they just didnt see "some things" they clearly identified what they saw as alien spacecraft.

cocaine is a hell of a drug?

i suggest you stop using it and seek help.

I'll get my advice from a drug counselor, not a massage therapist, thank you very much.

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
The Belgian UFO wave of 1989-1993 is the most intriguing for me.

LOL, that's one of those things you say and then just gotta reflect on how awesomely geeky it sounds.

And yet I purposely refrained from saying flap.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
dude, it is too far


too many miles/light years between planets


i think their are other planets with life and stuff, but they can't come here, it is tooooooooooooooo far away

There is a major flaw in this argument and I hear it way to often. When speaking in terms of space, one must acknowledge the gigantic proportion of it....which is infinite. When you look at the universe in that manner, any possible scenario you can think of has probably happened. For instance, I could be sitting here typing this post billions of light years away.

To say no civilization in our universe has the technology to travel across space is almost like someone saying in the 1800s that we will never go to the moon. Too many people try to apply basic human knowledge to space.....the information we do know is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: RossGr
Time travelers are more likly then ET. The energy requirement is essentially the same but a time traveler would not have to find this fleck of dust on the galactic beach we call earth, they would already be here.

No they wouldn't already be ehre. The earth moves very fast through space. I don't know how long it takes us to go around our galaxy, but if you come from the future you're going to end up very far from where earth is right now.

There's no one "immobile" frame of reference around which everything (presumably including time travel) would hinge. I guess you could claim the galactic center, but the gravitational interactions between our solar system and the center of the galaxy are nothing compared to that between earth and the sun, or us and the earth. Not to mention the link between gravity/acceleration and time...it's not totally implausible that time travelers would be "sucked in" to areas of high gravity. If you're starting at the bottom of a hole (earth), and the hole moves, you move with it.

Originally posted by: manowar821
There is one thing I am 100% sure of. That is that our governments know a lot more than they're telling us. A LOT more.

You can "believe" in something without proof, and you can certainly "believe 100%" in something for which you have some evidence, but no proof.

But you can never be "100% sure" of ANYTHING...even if you have proof. Because no proof is 100%.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: FoBoT
dude, it is too far


too many miles/light years between planets


i think their are other planets with life and stuff, but they can't come here, it is tooooooooooooooo far away

There is a major flaw in this argument and I hear it way to often. When speaking in terms of space, one must acknowledge the gigantic proportion of it....which is infinite. When you look at the universe in that manner, any possible scenario you can think of has probably happened. For instance, I could be sitting here typing this post billions of light years away.

To say no civilization in our universe has the technology to travel across space is almost like someone saying in the 1800s that we will never go to the moon. Too many people try to apply basic human knowledge to space.....the information we do know is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.

Sorry, but this reasoning is wrong. The universe is amazingly vast (from our perspective) but it is not infinite, neither in space nor in time.
Nor is interstellar travel like going to the moon To put it in perspective, the distance to the moon is not quite 10 times the earth's circumference -- the distance to the nearest star is 996,239,117 times the earth's circumference. If we traveled at the same speed as Apollo 11 did (IIRC, mach 17), it would take 818,827 years to get there. And before you say, "Oh, we'll make faster ships!" keep in mind that the Space Shuttle generates 37 million horsepower at lift off, and is the most complicated vehicle ever made by humankind.
Then there's the fact that, like space and time, matter and energy are also fundamentally intertwined. And energy has a speed limit. For matter to travel faster than energy's speed limit would require that that matter have more energy than energy itself. The "information" that we know at this time says that is not possible, your religion of the "grand scheme of the universe" notwithstanding.

 

[Shlong]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: FoBoT
dude, it is too far


too many miles/light years between planets


i think their are other planets with life and stuff, but they can't come here, it is tooooooooooooooo far away

There is a major flaw in this argument and I hear it way to often. When speaking in terms of space, one must acknowledge the gigantic proportion of it....which is infinite. When you look at the universe in that manner, any possible scenario you can think of has probably happened. For instance, I could be sitting here typing this post billions of light years away.

To say no civilization in our universe has the technology to travel across space is almost like someone saying in the 1800s that we will never go to the moon. Too many people try to apply basic human knowledge to space.....the information we do know is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe.

Sorry, but this reasoning is wrong. The universe is amazingly vast (from our perspective) but it is not infinite, neither in space nor in time.
Nor is interstellar travel like going to the moon To put it in perspective, the distance to the moon is not quite 10 times the earth's circumference -- the distance to the nearest star is 996,239,117 times the earth's circumference. If we traveled at the same speed as Apollo 11 did (IIRC, mach 17), it would take 818,827 years to get there. And before you say, "Oh, we'll make faster ships!" keep in mind that the Space Shuttle generates 37 million horsepower at lift off, and is the most complicated vehicle ever made by humankind.
Then there's the fact that, like space and time, matter and energy are also fundamentally intertwined. And energy has a speed limit. For matter to travel faster than energy's speed limit would require that that matter have more energy than energy itself. The "information" that we know at this time says that is not possible, your religion of the "grand scheme of the universe" notwithstanding.

If Vast Distance Space Travel were to be attainable, it can't be done by conventional means. We would have to look into wormholes & bending space time.

 

[randay]

god created aliens to test out faith?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Some people are so gullible. Fools.

To think those vids are real... sure. To think that life only exists here? Not so sure about that one.

you say the NASA videos and audios are fake?

Are you saying that they prove anything? People said they saw some things that they couldn't identify, period. How do you make the leap from "what was that?" to "it's visitors from another planet"?

no if you watched the youtube videos there are several audio recording where ASTRONAUTS said "the alien spacecraft is following us" or "i am watching a UFO" they just didnt see "some things" they clearly identified what they saw as alien spacecraft.

cocaine is a hell of a drug?

i suggest you stop using it and seek help.

I'll get my advice from a drug counselor, not a massage therapist, thank you very much.

im pretty sure he will tell you to stop using cocaine too.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Some people are so gullible. Fools.

To think those vids are real... sure. To think that life only exists here? Not so sure about that one.

you say the NASA videos and audios are fake?

Are you saying that they prove anything? People said they saw some things that they couldn't identify, period. How do you make the leap from "what was that?" to "it's visitors from another planet"?

no if you watched the youtube videos there are several audio recording where ASTRONAUTS said "the alien spacecraft is following us" or "i am watching a UFO" they just didnt see "some things" they clearly identified what they saw as alien spacecraft.

cocaine is a hell of a drug?

i suggest you stop using it and seek help.

I'll get my advice from a drug counselor, not a massage therapist, thank you very much.

im pretty sure he will tell you to stop using cocaine too.

clearly, you misunderstand the dual nature of the job description "drug counselor".

 

[OutHouse]

indeed i may.