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for those of us who don't understand women

linuxboy

Elite Member
Since many post here about their relationship snafus and since the majority of the people here are male and claim they have difficulty understanding people "of the female persuasion" 😀, I thought I'd post a logical system for the rationally-inclined who wish to disseminate the phenomenon of human, and particularly female, behavior.

First, we presuppose a set of original premises which shape behavior. This is largely due to temperament, which is genetic. Now these premises are what influence behavior on a fundamental level. This is really who we are.

Second, in most cases, the particular cultural context and society influences just exactly how the particular temperament will be applied in terms of thought processes and concrete and observable behavior.

Third, the behavior is reinforced due to reward and punishment systems. This leads to a cementing of personality and persistent life-course trajectories.

Fourth, having developed a system where it is understood that original assumptions and axioms is a system, in this case, behavior and thought, influence the choice of further deductions and in everyday life, conclusions about the nature of reality, we can say that if these original premises can be discovered or derived from a larger infinite set, then we can discover exactly what motivates people to act, in this case females.

Fifth, we get to the task at hand, which is attempting to discover the source and nature of female beahvior.

Sixth, I propose that the source is grounded in biology, followed by interactions and transactions with the environment. This in turn produces a current observable personality. So, in order to understand why people, particularly the female morph, act, we must again look to the general developmental outcome in adult samples.

Seventh, from observation and literature analysis, is is possible to conclude with a good amount of certainty, that the foundations of most female behavior lie in a drive to maintain harmony in relationships. I am not claiming this as an absolute but merely stating that this is the current situation. Years of experience and conditioning emphasize connected networks of relationships.

This I pose as the fundamental axiom driving female behavior, in our current cultural context. Seems reasonable, eh?

Now, how do we benefit from this?

Well, males in this society tend to have an outlook which values a more objective founding of one's system. That is, they prefer to see things as black and white since they consider the use of logic as a fundamental premis as superior or at least better fitting to reality than the use of balance in connected webs. Thus, the opposition and all this "mean are from mars, women are from venus" sort of gibberish.

But there is a solution. In order to understand these things, one cannot do it with reason. A full plunging into the experience (supra rational) of the other party who holds different assumptions about ultimate importance is necessary. In other words, what is called empathy and it's corollary: compassion. If the person realizes the confines of traditonal concepts of the self and changes perspectives to such an extent where full awareness of others' behavior stemming from different epistemic axioms is realized, then there really won't be this problem of "I don't understand"

The real trick is doing that since it's immensely hard. But for those who complain about not understanding, I think this provides a good foundation for a rational model of the methods employed to reach understanding.

Any discussion welcome. I would particularly like a critique since I really think I made some errors here. But at the same time, I had to write my own thoughts without reference to other thinkers.

Cheers ! 🙂
 


<< Seventh, from observation and literature analysis, is is possible to conclude with a good amount of certainty, that the foundations of most female behavior lie in a drive to maintain harmony in relationships. I am not claiming this as an absolute but merely stating that this is the current situation. Years of experience and conditioning emphasize connected networks of relationships. >>



The Wife of Bath's Tale - Chaucer
"My liege lady, in gneral terms," said he,
"A woman most of all wants sovereignty.
A woman wants to have the power over
her husband just as much as any lover."

I think stating that women want to maintain harmony in relationships is a tad overgeneralizing, don't you? Girls just wanna have fun - well, some of them. I put forth the assertion that drives a woman varies from individual to individidual, even nowadays. 🙂 I have friends who could care less about harmonious relationships.
 
varies from individual to individidual.

And now we get into individual differences. I tried to point this out but I don't think it came through (I said that this is only within a large median area of the current cultural sample, I did not account for deviants). My assertion was indeed generalized but note that the conclusion is applicable as an objective method of action regardless of specific characteristics.

You are right though, I didn't really dig deep enough. I'll save that for another thread 🙂

Even though I generalized, I still maintain that this is accurate for a large number of people and the method used to manifest the drive in women is one of focusing on networks.

Do you say I can't go even as far as a generalization and write everything off as individual differences? Surely, patterns must exist.

Cheers ! 🙂
 


<< women dont understand themselves sometimes >>




LOL, maybe true but then we aren't the ones posting thread after thread looking to make sense out of ourselves 😀
 
LOL, maybe true but then we aren't the ones posting thread after thread looking to make sense out of ourselves

Actually, I have that problem solved 🙂 and I don't see your position as having any support outside of the facts gathered from this forum 😛. I'm just trying to bring back some quality threads/discussions to ATOT and this seems as good a method as any. Albeit, my rambling tends to lose people pretty quickly despite many efforts to be precise.

Can we have some more discussion on this? So far HC has made the objection of my overreaching generalization that has no apparent basis (which I have addressed, or tried to anyway).

Jean, you're of the female persuasion, any thoughts here?


"But you see, we've already got one of those!"

Absolutely, but what if you have it and never take it out of its box? Maybe the time has come to do that, eh.


Cheers ! 🙂
 
See, what you've gotta catch onto here, LB, is that any information you get from the AT gals is sure to be misleading. Women don't WANT you to understand them.

(Have fun with that little circle - don't trust what I say. 😉)
 


<< See, what you've gotta catch onto here, LB, is that any information you get from the AT gals is sure to be misleading. Women don't WANT you to understand them.

(Have fun with that little circle - don't trust what I say. 😉)
>>



Umm....if women don't want men to understand them, doesn't that make them hyprocrites?

I know some women (again...some...not all) complaining how men don't understand them. If what you say is true (that women don't want men to undestand them), then what right do women have to complain that men don't understand them?

I do not wish to start a flame war...this is from a purely philosophical point of view.
 


<< Albeit, my rambling tends to lose people pretty quickly despite many efforts to be precise. >>


You're right, you do tend to lose people, as I have seen in the past, and I do see from the lack of responses here....therefore, I will try to make some sense of what you have postulated and spew forth my own meager understanding of the fairer sex.

It would seem on the surface that you may be correct in putting forth that networking, keeping up relationships, seems to be the primary goal of women, in a very, very general sense. But I feel that maybe you have drilled down too far here. The goal may be simply for validation. Validation of life, of actions, etc. that women tend to find in other people. As the saying goes, keep your close friends close, and your enemies closer. Well, I think that maybe women find validation in relationships, in other people's opinions of them and their actions, thus their desire for networking overwhelms many other desires.

On the other hand, I may be looking at the situation at too high a level. Perhaps this validation is a human desire rather than a female desire. Men tend to find validation in things, i.e. a nice car, house, computer (for some), beautiful wife, etc. We tend to be more pragmatic and standoffish when it comes to keeping close friends. We have the ability to not talk to someone for months at a time and still be best friends. In my limited experience, the women I know cannot do this, or perhaps just choose not to....Either way, remember, ladies, I am not speaking about all women, mostly just the ones I have had failed relationships with.

So the question remains, what do women want? Like Rarr said, women don't understand themselves sometimes. Well, I say we may never know, and maybe that is for the best.

I remember the words of the comedian Chris Rock on the topic of what women want...."Everything" was his conclusion. Seems to be correct in some ways.. 😉

I probably wasn't much help here, but hey, why not respond with some of my own drivel? 🙂
 


<< I think stating that women want to maintain harmony in relationships is a tad overgeneralizing, don't you? Girls just wanna have fun - well, some of them. I put forth the assertion that drives a woman varies from individual to individidual, even nowadays. I have friends who could care less about harmonious relationships. >>



I disagree.................on jus' one minor point................"Girls just wanna have fun - well, some of them." - all of them do !!!!!!!
 


<< I have friends who could care less about harmonious relationships. >>



Uh-oh! Lets hope a certain member of the boards doesn't read this! :Q🙂
 


<< We have the ability to not talk to someone for months at a time and >>


im a guy and i dont understand the phenonman sp? but who cares another friend is always good
 


<< Albeit, my rambling tends to lose people pretty quickly despite many efforts to be precise. >>


You're right, you do tend to lose people, as I have seen in the past, and I do see from the lack of responses here....therefore, I will try to make some sense of what you have postulated and spew forth my own meager understanding of the fairer sex.

It would seem on the surface that you may be correct in putting forth that networking, keeping up relationships, seems to be the primary goal of women, in a very, very general sense. But I feel that maybe you have drilled down too far here. The goal may be simply for validation. Validation of life, of actions, etc. that women tend to find in other people. As the saying goes, keep your close friends close, and your enemies closer. Well, I think that maybe women find validation in relationships, in other people's opinions of them and their actions, thus their desire for networking overwhelms many other desires.


I recognize this point but as I said to HC, I'm not traveling down that road for the time being. This is a more concrete method based on data and developmental theory. I do agree with the intent of your words but not the words themselves. The "desire" is really a state of affectation. It may cause behavior combined with system reinforcers but the motivation is not solely dependent on emotions. Rather, the primary focus is to maintain stability and continuity and in this case, by employing cooperate conflict-mitigating strategies.

On the other hand, I may be looking at the situation at too high a level. Perhaps this validation is a human desire rather than a female desire. Men tend to find validation in things, i.e. a nice car, house, computer (for some), beautiful wife, etc. We tend to be more pragmatic and standoffish when it comes to keeping close friends. We have the ability to not talk to someone for months at a time and still be best friends. In my limited experience, the women I know cannot do this, or perhaps just choose not to....Either way, remember, ladies, I am not speaking about all women, mostly just the ones I have had failed relationships with.


HeHe. I think you have some insight here in general human drives but specifically, I wanted to focus on the gender phenomenon. I didn't get into developmental stuff by people like Maccoby and Jacklin since that's too much and just wanted some sort of heuristic or model for coping with what is seemingly the enigmatic.


So the question remains, what do women want? Like Rarr said, women don't understand themselves sometimes. Well, I say we may never know, and maybe that is for the best.


Well no, the fundamental needs don't change. Maslow did have some interesting ideas, even though they are off a little. The problem is the cultural methods used to fulfill higher-order needs, which are usually difficult to discover due to their idiosyncrasy.

I remember the words of the comedian Chris Rock on the topic of what women want...."Everything" was his conclusion. Seems to be correct in some ways.. 😉


My own motto in life has been, "Nothing short of Everything will really do". Perhaps what remains then is translating that into everyday experience. Comedians and poets have a knack for saying seemingly funny stuff that has a lesson.

I probably wasn't much help here, but hey, why not respond with some of my own drivel? 🙂[/i] >>



Exactly. Well, you did make the important distinction between recognizing the role culture plays in all of this and fundamental biological and other needs universal to humans. I think that's important but I don't think it's pragmatic enough. Not that mine is particularly useful from the feedback I've gotten.

Cheers ! 🙂
 


<< I thought I'd post a logical system >>



hahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You were trying to explain women using logic. Boy, have you got a LOT to learn.
 
You expect that to help us understand women, when we can't even understand what the heck you are talking about!!😀😀😀HEHEHEHE

Don't foget to add this one, if it is not already in your write up:
Never trust a woman's promise😀😀😀😀😀HEHEHEHE
 
So what you're saying, generally, is that women tend to "feel" through things while men on the other hand tend to "think" or rationalize through things.

In order to understand women we need to be more "feely".

Right?

🙂
 
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